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Tanks Are The Only Role That Can’t Reliably/Consistently Do Their Job… And That Needs To Be Fixed.
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redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If someone in my group is purposely taking aggro from the tank using frost staff or any other taunt, they will be voted out, or I'll be leaving. I don't have time for that kind of crap. You can't stop people from being idiots. The best I've found you can do is remove yourself from their radius of idiocy.Edited by redspecter23 on March 7, 2018 8:58PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Woefulmonkey wrote: »@Defilted
Read what I wrote... it not that long.
I am not saying players should not be able to heal themselves.
I am saying how would you as a healer feel if your 'Heals We Being Blocked' because someone was healing themselves.
That is what is happening to tanks.
I read your comments. Your heals cannot be blocked. Is it possible you are healing a target that already healed themselves? Yes. I still do not understand why this is an issue. Happens a few times and move on to healing others or doing damage because your heals in the particular fight are not needed.
For example there is a 5 price bonus that wants you to throw heals at full health players to proc the set. So it really depends on you and your choice of setup.
If I am a healer and the group is so self sufficient I do not need to primary heal, this is a good thing in my book.
Its a bad analogy.
Tanks experiencing taunt immunity because someone else taunted is just like healers being blocked from healing because someone else healed.
A better analogy would be:
Tanks experiencing taunt immunity because someone else taunted is just like healers forced to spam their heals because someone is standing in stupid they can't handle is just like DDs wasting DPS because the tank is kiting the boss when they don't have to.
In all those cases, someone in the party is making the job of that party member much harder. Because if your tank is useless when you can't taunt, you need to work on your tanking as practice for certain fights where you can't taunt the boss (Direfrost Keep, Darkshade II, etc.)0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭I play a tank all most exclusively. This is not a problem that needs addressed. If I'm in a group with someone who insist on keeping agro, I let them. Either they really are also a tank and everything is fine. Or they are not a tank and they are about to learn their lesson, and I'll take taunt back once they are dead. Some people it does take more than one lesson.
Either way forcing the tank to wait the full 15 second between taunts is a terrible idea. Major Fracture & Breach only last 12 seconds AND I want taunt reapplied early just in case I get hit with a mechanic or stun I have a little buff before I loose agro. It only takes a second for that one shot skill to wipe a DD.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
Sergykid✭✭✭✭✭
✭Too many walls of text, feels like people come here to tell their stories instead of commenting to the subject. But i'll write my comment.
i agree with the idea, it migth make frost staff viable dps weapon, but what if u miss taunt for a second and now u have to wait the frost staff user's taunt to wear off? And can u reapply taunt to not risk this? what if u die and second tank can't taunt?
Too many problems, best thing is to remain as it is now and people to learn about aggro. And maybe separate the frost staff passive-PC EU- / battlegrounds on my youtube0 -
Wayshuba✭✭✭✭✭I have been tanking in MMOs for almost 15 years and I have rarely run into these issues the OP mentioned. I guess I must be lucky.
If you are not tanking and the current boss or mob does not require someone other than the tank to grab aggro than no one other than the tank should have Inner Fire or it's morphs slotted.
Likewise, no DD I know runs sword and board for damage so the risk of them using Pierce Armor should also not be an issue.
If someone has built a DD with a Frost Staff, then they should not have any point in the Tri-Focus passive to give the Frost Staff a taunt.
It seems I have been lucky because even in most PUGs I have run, the things I mentioned above seem to be clearly understood.Edited by Wayshuba on March 8, 2018 9:48AM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have been tanking in MMOs for almost 15 years and I have rarely run into these issues the OP mentioned. I guess I must be lucky.
If you are not tanking and the current boss or mob does not require someone other than the tank to grab aggro than no one other than the tank should have Inner Fire or it's morphs slotted.
Likewise, no DD I know runs sword and board for damage so the risk of them using Pierce Armor should also not be an issue.
If someone has built a DD with a Frost Staff, then they should not have any point in the Tri-Focus passive to give the Frost Staff a taunt.
It seems I have been lucky because even in most PUGs I have run, the things I mentioned above seem to be clearly understood.
I've had several frost stuff users grab aggro and I even did have one DD using Puncture. Thing is, they all listened when I pointed out that was a taunt, because they didnt really want boss aggro. Usually, they didn't even know those skills/passive had a taunt.
I guess its mostly a L2ReadTooltips situation.0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I have been tanking in MMOs for almost 15 years and I have rarely run into these issues the OP mentioned. I guess I must be lucky.
If you are not tanking and the current boss or mob does not require someone other than the tank to grab aggro than no one other than the tank should have Inner Fire or it's morphs slotted.
Likewise, no DD I know runs sword and board for damage so the risk of them using Pierce Armor should also not be an issue.
If someone has built a DD with a Frost Staff, then they should not have any point in the Tri-Focus passive to give the Frost Staff a taunt.
It seems I have been lucky because even in most PUGs I have run, the things I mentioned above seem to be clearly understood.
My tank works a lot of WBs and I enjoy that. Unfortunately, I have run into quite a few magic squishies who pull my aggro and commit suicide by frost staff. I have also run into more that one wannabe dps who is using a S&B (because they want to be 'tougher and more survivable') who have no clue that their puncture is a taunt and that a shield does not make a tank.
Oh, absolutely, players need to read their darn skill descriptions but that does not change the reality on the ground that many don't. Don't know what the answer is but it is definitely a bit of a problem in my view. And OP is right in that neither my healer nor dps get sabotaged by other player mechanics - but my tank does. That is his point - and I agree.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AcadianPaladin wrote: »I have been tanking in MMOs for almost 15 years and I have rarely run into these issues the OP mentioned. I guess I must be lucky.
If you are not tanking and the current boss or mob does not require someone other than the tank to grab aggro than no one other than the tank should have Inner Fire or it's morphs slotted.
Likewise, no DD I know runs sword and board for damage so the risk of them using Pierce Armor should also not be an issue.
If someone has built a DD with a Frost Staff, then they should not have any point in the Tri-Focus passive to give the Frost Staff a taunt.
It seems I have been lucky because even in most PUGs I have run, the things I mentioned above seem to be clearly understood.
My tank works a lot of WBs and I enjoy that. Unfortunately, I have run into quite a few magic squishies who pull my aggro and commit suicide by frost staff. I have also run into more that one wannabe dps who is using a S&B (because they want to be 'tougher and more survivable') who have no clue that their puncture is a taunt and that a shield does not make a tank.
Oh, absolutely, players need to read their darn skill descriptions but that does not change the reality on the ground that many don't. Don't know what the answer is but it is definitely a bit of a problem in my view. And OP is right in that neither my healer nor dps get sabotaged by other player mechanics - but my tank does. That is his point - and I agree.
I don't view it as my tank getting sabotaged by player mechanics. I view it as my tank getting sabotaged by player ignorance and lack of understanding how to properly perform their own role. And by those standards, my DPS and healers get sabotaged by player ignorance and lacking of understanding all the time.
I don't expect the game to say "this player is the true tank in the dungeon, therefore only they can taunt." If there are two people taunting, well, I expect the game to act like there is two tanks and taunt immunity is there so two tanks can't mess with the boss mechanics.
This is 100% user error. When you figure out how to educate players properly, you'll solve the problem.Edited by VaranisArano on March 8, 2018 1:39PM0 -
Jarryzzt✭✭✭✭"They've got a cave troll..."
----I guess its mostly a L2ReadTooltips situation.
I would argue this is the perfect excuse for ZOS to get off its collective backside and redo the skill tooltips using a clear and concise tag system (e.g. "AoE, DoT, Flame") - ditto Champion nodes - because HERESY! NO OTHER MMO IN HISTORY HAS EVER DONE THIS! BURN THE FOUL XENOS!
On topic. The OP is describing situations that..........occur with a fairly small frequency in my experience. That is, statistically someone is probably using an ice staff to DPS in a dungeon. I've just never seen such a thing, ever.
I do agree with the sentiments of one professional tank in this thread - if someone insists on grabbing aggro, let them. If they do not know what they are doing, they will either learn or get kicked. If they do, or are on a pet Magsorc with a stupidly large shield, then they can handle it.
There is no reason to change the game for this.0 -
Rungar✭✭✭✭✭
✭what kind of madness is this. If someone else is taunting and they aren't the tank you let them finish. It works itself out.only a few years left to go now....
Current ideas for ESO improvement
Rungar's Mystical Emporium of Ideas junkyard0 -
Apherius✭✭✭✭✭
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Solution 1) xD just tell me how tanks are supposed to do their job for the 4th of Vhof. if they can't trade their boss ... they will just die.Edited by Apherius on March 8, 2018 8:57PM0
