Bring back C-Frags 20% additional damage.

Feanor · March 2018

@Maulkin

No, it was this proposed change:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311752/dont-touch-velocious-curse/p1

Initially Curse should have hit in 6 seconds, meaning no burst at all in PvP. That’s where the riots started. Then Wrobel folded and put it at 3.5 seconds and kept the echo on top.

P.S. Are you the Maulkin from former K.o.C? Asking out of curiosity.

Maulkin · March 2018

Feanor wrote: »

@Maulkin

No, it was this proposed change:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/311752/dont-touch-velocious-curse/p1

Initially Curse should have hit in 6 seconds, meaning no burst at all in PvP. That’s where the riots started. Then Wrobel folded and put it at 3.5 seconds and kept the echo on top.

P.S. Are you the Maulkin from former K.o.C? Asking out of curiosity.

That didn't hit live though. Changes happen a lot in PTS. The Frags change has been live for 2 updates now, since CWC. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any buffs/nerfs that made it to live being reverted.

And yes I'm that Maulkin.

Feanor · March 2018

@Maulkin

Man, I fondly remember the drunken Saturday night raids with Disra

. On topic you’re correct I think. They never have budged on live nerfs.

BohnT · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Sorcs aren’t top of the food chain in PvE either. They get one spot because they can still provide minor prophecy, minor intellect and some ranged AoE with concussion. Otherwise it’s stam boys and magNBs all the way.

I was talking about the time when you had a raid group like this: 7-8 pet sorc dds, 1 dk tank with engulfing, 0-1 off tanks (depending on the trial) 2 magplar healer

Homestead was ages though.

Just one year ago. And not so long ago Magblades were abysmal compared to Sorcs.

And before that MagBlades were much better than Sorc. I remember 1 DK and 10 NBs in the trials when Funnel +Sap was giving such insane heals that no healer was needed. Let's not have selective memory.

BohnT wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93

Assassin‘s Will is actually better with the recent changes because you can hold the burst for eternity (going out of combat means disengaging for quite some time in Cyrodiil). That means your burst is ready whenever you have the window. Frags can proc at all times, but you have no control over it, and you can only hold it for 8 seconds. There might or might not be a burst window.

That’s aside from frags being the far inferior projectile due to speed and visibility.

@Azurya

If you’re getting killed by frags as Nightblade in 2018 it’s certainly not because the skill is so strong.

I don't disagree that Assassins Will is currently better (after it was worse for almost 4 years :P ) but the major difference is that Assassins Will has a forced cooldown while Frags has "only" a soft cooldown based on RNG. When I played sorc active I got most kills when I got lucky and had several frag procs in a row (it doesn't matter that much how often that happens, it matters that it can happen). If you want frags to deal similar damage to Assassins Will then you need to give a it a forced cooldown as well.

Also you can force a frag hit with Runecage while you have enough time for a CC break and dodge Assassins Will.

Never ever had a problem landing bow proc after an Incap or a Fear. What is this problem with landing Will you speak of?

The "problem" is CC break into rolldodge/block. (which is no problem at all because dmg needs to be avoidable, getting bursted without counterplay or getting spammed to death from pressure builds because you get more red numbers than green numbers are actually the real problems).

CC break is on the same GCD as skills. If the immediate skill after your CC (Fear, Incap, Reach) is Bow proc, then it's mathematically impossible for your target to CC break and dodge the incoming Will. I'm happy to test with you at the weekend, I'll log both stamblade and magblade and if you manage to dodge a single proc after eating the CC I'll be seriously impressed.

It's definitely possible with a proper functioning CC, incap and fear both have such buggy CCs that don't break fast enough to avoid the will.

I don't think Incap CC is buggy. But even if that was the case, the argument that Will can be dodged while Frag can't doesn't hold if both CCs used by NBs are causing longer-than-normal CC breaks.

Care to test with me in a controlled environment? Are you PC EU?

Yes i am PC EU.
There's really no need too test it, if you play one hour on Vivec during primetime or duel a stamnb in Bergama you'll notice that something really fishy goes on with the CC of incap especially when it gets animation cancelled

Aurie · March 2018

If the devs left things alone in the first place, there would be far less balancing to do down the line.

Maulkin · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Sorcs aren’t top of the food chain in PvE either. They get one spot because they can still provide minor prophecy, minor intellect and some ranged AoE with concussion. Otherwise it’s stam boys and magNBs all the way.

I was talking about the time when you had a raid group like this: 7-8 pet sorc dds, 1 dk tank with engulfing, 0-1 off tanks (depending on the trial) 2 magplar healer

Homestead was ages though.

Just one year ago. And not so long ago Magblades were abysmal compared to Sorcs.

And before that MagBlades were much better than Sorc. I remember 1 DK and 10 NBs in the trials when Funnel +Sap was giving such insane heals that no healer was needed. Let's not have selective memory.

BohnT wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93

Assassin‘s Will is actually better with the recent changes because you can hold the burst for eternity (going out of combat means disengaging for quite some time in Cyrodiil). That means your burst is ready whenever you have the window. Frags can proc at all times, but you have no control over it, and you can only hold it for 8 seconds. There might or might not be a burst window.

That’s aside from frags being the far inferior projectile due to speed and visibility.

@Azurya

If you’re getting killed by frags as Nightblade in 2018 it’s certainly not because the skill is so strong.

I don't disagree that Assassins Will is currently better (after it was worse for almost 4 years :P ) but the major difference is that Assassins Will has a forced cooldown while Frags has "only" a soft cooldown based on RNG. When I played sorc active I got most kills when I got lucky and had several frag procs in a row (it doesn't matter that much how often that happens, it matters that it can happen). If you want frags to deal similar damage to Assassins Will then you need to give a it a forced cooldown as well.

Also you can force a frag hit with Runecage while you have enough time for a CC break and dodge Assassins Will.

Never ever had a problem landing bow proc after an Incap or a Fear. What is this problem with landing Will you speak of?

The "problem" is CC break into rolldodge/block. (which is no problem at all because dmg needs to be avoidable, getting bursted without counterplay or getting spammed to death from pressure builds because you get more red numbers than green numbers are actually the real problems).

CC break is on the same GCD as skills. If the immediate skill after your CC (Fear, Incap, Reach) is Bow proc, then it's mathematically impossible for your target to CC break and dodge the incoming Will. I'm happy to test with you at the weekend, I'll log both stamblade and magblade and if you manage to dodge a single proc after eating the CC I'll be seriously impressed.

It's definitely possible with a proper functioning CC, incap and fear both have such buggy CCs that don't break fast enough to avoid the will.

I don't think Incap CC is buggy. But even if that was the case, the argument that Will can be dodged while Frag can't doesn't hold if both CCs used by NBs are causing longer-than-normal CC breaks.

Care to test with me in a controlled environment? Are you PC EU?

Yes i am PC EU.
There's really no need too test it, if you play one hour on Vivec during primetime or duel a stamnb in Bergama you'll notice that something really fishy goes on with the CC of incap especially when it gets animation cancelled

Well no that's not the taste I want to run. The test i want to see is if you can CC break and dodge the bow proc if I perform a normal rotation under normal conditions (good ping etc.) Because I don't think it's possible yet some people say it is. If the attacker plays it well, I don't think there's a chance. But I'd love to be proven wrong.

Ragnaroek93 · March 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@BohnT

Sorcs aren’t top of the food chain in PvE either. They get one spot because they can still provide minor prophecy, minor intellect and some ranged AoE with concussion. Otherwise it’s stam boys and magNBs all the way.

I was talking about the time when you had a raid group like this: 7-8 pet sorc dds, 1 dk tank with engulfing, 0-1 off tanks (depending on the trial) 2 magplar healer

Homestead was ages though.

Just one year ago. And not so long ago Magblades were abysmal compared to Sorcs.

And before that MagBlades were much better than Sorc. I remember 1 DK and 10 NBs in the trials when Funnel +Sap was giving such insane heals that no healer was needed. Let's not have selective memory.

BohnT wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

@Ragnaroek93

Assassin‘s Will is actually better with the recent changes because you can hold the burst for eternity (going out of combat means disengaging for quite some time in Cyrodiil). That means your burst is ready whenever you have the window. Frags can proc at all times, but you have no control over it, and you can only hold it for 8 seconds. There might or might not be a burst window.

That’s aside from frags being the far inferior projectile due to speed and visibility.

@Azurya

If you’re getting killed by frags as Nightblade in 2018 it’s certainly not because the skill is so strong.

I don't disagree that Assassins Will is currently better (after it was worse for almost 4 years :P ) but the major difference is that Assassins Will has a forced cooldown while Frags has "only" a soft cooldown based on RNG. When I played sorc active I got most kills when I got lucky and had several frag procs in a row (it doesn't matter that much how often that happens, it matters that it can happen). If you want frags to deal similar damage to Assassins Will then you need to give a it a forced cooldown as well.

Also you can force a frag hit with Runecage while you have enough time for a CC break and dodge Assassins Will.

Never ever had a problem landing bow proc after an Incap or a Fear. What is this problem with landing Will you speak of?

The "problem" is CC break into rolldodge/block. (which is no problem at all because dmg needs to be avoidable, getting bursted without counterplay or getting spammed to death from pressure builds because you get more red numbers than green numbers are actually the real problems).

CC break is on the same GCD as skills. If the immediate skill after your CC (Fear, Incap, Reach) is Bow proc, then it's mathematically impossible for your target to CC break and dodge the incoming Will. I'm happy to test with you at the weekend, I'll log both stamblade and magblade and if you manage to dodge a single proc after eating the CC I'll be seriously impressed.

It's definitely possible with a proper functioning CC, incap and fear both have such buggy CCs that don't break fast enough to avoid the will.

I don't think Incap CC is buggy. But even if that was the case, the argument that Will can be dodged while Frag can't doesn't hold if both CCs used by NBs are causing longer-than-normal CC breaks.

Care to test with me in a controlled environment? Are you PC EU?

Yes i am PC EU.
There's really no need too test it, if you play one hour on Vivec during primetime or duel a stamnb in Bergama you'll notice that something really fishy goes on with the CC of incap especially when it gets animation cancelled

Well no that's not the taste I want to run. The test i want to see is if you can CC break and dodge the bow proc if I perform a normal rotation under normal conditions (good ping etc.) Because I don't think it's possible yet some people say it is. If the attacker plays it well, I don't think there's a chance. But I'd love to be proven wrong.

Can test with you. Or just test it in a duel against some people in Bergama, most people are actually able to avoid it. @Subversus and @DDuke can confirm that.

Edit: In my opinion it's totally fine that this is avoidable. Getting that much burst which can't be countered would be absurd.

Subversus · March 2018

@Maulkin

It's 100% possible to roll dodge merciless after incap stun. I do it constantly, and I have like a constant 120 ping. You can imagine how easy it is for people with 70 and under. It's not even that hard, the travel time on merciless is absurdly slow ever since they removed the cast time.

On the other hand, reach > merciless is undodgeable if you land reach. That's one of the reasons many magblades (at least on pc eu) use reach in duels (and open world if master staff).

WrathOfInnos · March 2018

Yeah, frags could use something. Every time I slot the skill, my DPS decreases.

LittlePinkDot · March 2018

Pelican wrote: »

So back in HotR or Morrowind, C-Frags bonus damage got reduced from 20% to 10% because it was overperforming. But ever since the stun from C-Frags got removed in Clockwork City patch I feel that magsorcs should have back the original 20% additional damage for C-Frags. Would help C-Frags compete with stuff like magblade's Assassin's Will which hits so much harder. The 20% additional C-Frags damage would definitely help magsorcs out, both PvP and PvE, without hurting balance at all. What do you guys think?

I agree, magsorc needs a buff. Magsorc ruined my first play through of this game.
Only pet build is viable for leveling from the start, and they take up 2 slots on each bar. Sorc needs at least 1 powerful skill that they can spam to make up for the 4 slot pets. Its bad enough that light armour sucks for magsorc and you have to spam a shield every 6 seconds that drains your magicka all to hell. And if you want to dodge or sprint to get away, forget about it, you will be out of stamina in no time.
My medium armour stamblade is so much more fun with significantly better sustain and defense its just ridiculous.

Vaoh · March 2018

Frags is commonly unslotted nowadays in both PvP and even PvE.

The only time that Frags is almost always slotted is for non-pet Sorc PvE DPS...... and even then it’s mainly there for the Minor Prophecy group buff.

Also Sorcs have to Heavy Attack a lot to maintain Magicka since Morrowind nerfed sustain. This gives them far less Frag proc opportunities. Pair that with the necessity of keeping up Asylum Force Pulse spam+Damage nerfs, and you have a signature skill that was once a staple of Sorcs nerfed into near-uselessness.

It’s sad because at one point I could consistently reach 44-46K on a 3mil target dummy, but now it takes every cheesy tactic imaginable to pull those numbers. Aren’t characters supposed to get stronger overtime in an MMO?

Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2018

Joy_Division wrote: »

Was nothing wrong with the skill to begin with.

And NBs shouldn't even begin to talk about how easy it is to proc Frags after the changes Zos made to Merciless.

Seriously, If you do the math, you can on average cast a frag proc, every 4th skill on your front bar, and on merciless you can cast a bow every 5th skill (including back bar skills), while getting a very strong offensive damage buff. Merciless also hits MUCH harder.

Merciless is a far more powerful tool than frags. If a sorc could, they would swap the skill in an instant. I dont know if frags is the biggest problem (certainly one of them), but sorcs toolkit has been decimated in the last year or so.

Anti_Virus · March 2018

Agreed as long as it doesn't stun.

Minalan · March 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Agreed as long as it doesn't stun.

I’m pretty sure pigs are flying somewhere since we agree on something!

I’d like to point out that curse has been through a number of nerfs and buffs before the haunting thing.

I mean. First it was buffed by thaumaturge CP, but it was blockable. Then it was made non-blockable, but Thaumaturge CP didn’t buff the damage anymore, just magic damage.

Then they added the haunting curse. The only ‘nerf’ they undid was the initial explosion at 3.5 seconds instead of 5. I and many others argued with the devs that curse is basically the only Sorc counter to cloak. With a five second initial explosion a nightblade is basically gone, and it’s purged 100% of the time by Templars.

The devs gave us a 1.5 second break on the initial hit for PVP reasons and every other class lost their ***, saying Sorcs were the dev’s favorite and all other sorts of BS. Get bent. It’s a second and a half.

Anti_Virus · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Agreed as long as it doesn't stun.

I’m pretty sure pigs are flying somewhere since we agree on something!

I’d like to point out that curse has been through a number of nerfs and buffs before the haunting thing.

I mean. First it was buffed by thaumaturge CP, but it was blockable. Then it was made non-blockable, but Thaumaturge CP didn’t buff the damage anymore, just magic damage.

Then they added the haunting curse. The only ‘nerf’ they undid was the initial explosion at 3.5 seconds instead of 5. I and many others argued with the devs that curse is basically the only Sorc counter to cloak. With a five second initial explosion a nightblade is basically gone, and it’s purged 100% of the time by Templars.

The devs gave us a 1.5 second break on the initial hit for PVP reasons and every other class lost their ***, saying Sorcs were the dev’s favorite and all other sorts of BS. Get bent. It’s a second and a half.

Yeah after playing pvp for a while the dmg nerf on frags made sorcs easy to deal with since the damge is low. Its only fair that if it doesn't have a CC it should have its damage restored.

NBs atm the my huckleberry and could use some adjustments.

Azurya · March 2018

In this game we have some very egocentric and selfish players
they think they are awesome and all in this game should be adjusted around them
because they are so awesome it is impossible that they die! IMPOSSIBLE!
if they die they ask beforehand for a nerf to that ability, that skill, that combo, that class
they want a nerf for that thing that killed them, because it is impossible that they die

and then they go to the forum and beg, yell, whine for a nerf for this and that!
This must have an end!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel and anyone else @ZOS pls let this have an end
give those players an server for themselves and let them be happy there with their awesome builds forever
but please put an end to the NERF-TERROR they produce every day!!!

LegendaryMage · March 2018

We need to nerf bound armor at once. It requires only two slots and it gives as much magicka as the NB's passive. This is unacceptable.

GrigorijMalahevich · March 2018

#nerfsorc

Vahrokh · March 2018

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

BohnT · March 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

Why do People don't get that most nerfs were done both due to pvp and PvE?

Frag damage nerf was done due to pve
Frag stun removal was done due to PvP
Sustain changes were done due to PvP AND PvE
Destro Ult nerfs were done due to both PvE and PvP
Radiant Destruction nerf was done due to PvE and PvP
Proc set crit nerf was done due to PvE and PvP

Vahrokh · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

Why do People don't get that most nerfs were done both due to pvp and PvE?

Frag damage nerf was done due to pve
Frag stun removal was done due to PvP
Sustain changes were done due to PvP AND PvE
Destro Ult nerfs were done due to both PvE and PvP
Radiant Destruction nerf was done due to PvE and PvP
Proc set crit nerf was done due to PvE and PvP

NPCs don't cry on the forums. What's the point removing stun in PvE? 90% of trial NPCs are immune anyway. Are you implying frags stun made 4 men too easy?

The above "nerf system" is flawed: it comes with two "nerfs sources" (PvP and PvE) which stack on a single class skill.

This is how we got the current boring, flattened, streamlined classes. If you take nerf inputs from multiple sources and stack them all on a single ability, that ability becomes garbage.
At this point, just end the misery, make us all only auto-attack so we don't break this precious PvE balance.

BohnT · March 2018

Vahrokh wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

Why do People don't get that most nerfs were done both due to pvp and PvE?

Frag damage nerf was done due to pve
Frag stun removal was done due to PvP
Sustain changes were done due to PvP AND PvE
Destro Ult nerfs were done due to both PvE and PvP
Radiant Destruction nerf was done due to PvE and PvP
Proc set crit nerf was done due to PvE and PvP

NPCs don't cry on the forums. What's the point removing stun in PvE? 90% of trial NPCs are immune anyway. Are you implying frags stun made 4 men too easy?

The above "nerf system" is flawed: it comes with two "nerfs sources" (PvP and PvE) which stack on a single class skill.

This is how we got the current boring, flattened, streamlined classes. If you take nerf inputs from multiple sources and stack them all on a single ability, that ability becomes garbage.
At this point, just end the misery, make us all only auto-attack so we don't break this precious PvE balance.

No but a stun on a high damage ability is a problem in PvP.
If you could read my post again you'd see that the CC removal was done due to pvp, if you need CCs in PvE you are certainly at a level where you shouldn't be talking about balance

technohic · March 2018

I’m not sure where the whining comes from for PVE not having the stun. Any fight where it would help in a big target; they’re immune. In masses of trash,a single target CC doesn’t sound all that important ; especially one tied to a damage ability that’s likely going to kill the trash.

Apherius · March 2018

Oh, sarcasm.

Minalan · March 2018

Apherius wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

In this game we have some very egocentric and selfish players
they think they are awesome and all in this game should be adjusted around them
because they are so awesome it is impossible that they die! IMPOSSIBLE!
if they die they ask beforehand for a nerf to that ability, that skill, that combo, that class
they want a nerf for that thing that killed them, because it is impossible that they die

and then they go to the forum and beg, yell, whine for a nerf for this and that!
This must have an end!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel and anyone else @ZOS pls let this have an end
give those players an server for themselves and let them be happy there with their awesome builds forever
but please put an end to the NERF-TERROR they produce every day!!!

Seriously ? The only person in this thread who " want a nerf for the thing that killed him " is you.

Azurya wrote: »

still getting killed in cyro by this skill and think it needs a workover to reduce that dmg-output, because it is certainly not thought at as an execute, but it functions like one NOW!!!

nerf it, and nerf it thoroughly!

Not to be a mean guy or anything, but that post was sarcasm mate. It was clearly a joke.

Frags needs it’s damage back. If you look at skills like merciless and snipe it just doesn’t compare. It applies no debuffs. That needs to be fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea if the devs are aware of this?

Apherius · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

Why do People don't get that most nerfs were done both due to pvp and PvE?

Frag damage nerf was done due to pve
Frag stun removal was done due to PvP
Sustain changes were done due to PvP AND PvE
Destro Ult nerfs were done due to both PvE and PvP
Radiant Destruction nerf was done due to PvE and PvP
Proc set crit nerf was done due to PvE and PvP

NPCs don't cry on the forums. What's the point removing stun in PvE? 90% of trial NPCs are immune anyway. Are you implying frags stun made 4 men too easy?

The above "nerf system" is flawed: it comes with two "nerfs sources" (PvP and PvE) which stack on a single class skill.

This is how we got the current boring, flattened, streamlined classes. If you take nerf inputs from multiple sources and stack them all on a single ability, that ability becomes garbage.
At this point, just end the misery, make us all only auto-attack so we don't break this precious PvE balance.

No but a stun on a high damage ability is a problem in PvP.
If you could read my post again you'd see that the CC removal was done due to pvp, if you need CCs in PvE you are certainly at a level where you shouldn't be talking about balance

But a snare on a skill that deal even more damage isn't a problem ( humhum merciless resolve again ) ?
We literraly throw a big pebble to the enemy but ... it just deal damage
But a spectral bow should reduce the movement speed ? I just don't understand.

BohnT · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

In this game we have some very egocentric and selfish players
they think they are awesome and all in this game should be adjusted around them
because they are so awesome it is impossible that they die! IMPOSSIBLE!
if they die they ask beforehand for a nerf to that ability, that skill, that combo, that class
they want a nerf for that thing that killed them, because it is impossible that they die

and then they go to the forum and beg, yell, whine for a nerf for this and that!
This must have an end!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel and anyone else @ZOS pls let this have an end
give those players an server for themselves and let them be happy there with their awesome builds forever
but please put an end to the NERF-TERROR they produce every day!!!

Seriously ? The only person in this thread who " want a nerf for the thing that killed him " is you.

Azurya wrote: »

still getting killed in cyro by this skill and think it needs a workover to reduce that dmg-output, because it is certainly not thought at as an execute, but it functions like one NOW!!!

nerf it, and nerf it thoroughly!

Not to be a mean guy or anything, but that post was sarcasm mate. It was clearly a joke.

Frags needs it’s damage back. If you look at skills like merciless and snipe it just doesn’t compare. It applies no debuffs. That needs to be fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea if the devs are aware of this?

Not from this guy, he's a stamnb main and a bad one aswell he means what he's saying about sorcs

Minalan · March 2018

BohnT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

In this game we have some very egocentric and selfish players
they think they are awesome and all in this game should be adjusted around them
because they are so awesome it is impossible that they die! IMPOSSIBLE!
if they die they ask beforehand for a nerf to that ability, that skill, that combo, that class
they want a nerf for that thing that killed them, because it is impossible that they die

and then they go to the forum and beg, yell, whine for a nerf for this and that!
This must have an end!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel and anyone else @ZOS pls let this have an end
give those players an server for themselves and let them be happy there with their awesome builds forever
but please put an end to the NERF-TERROR they produce every day!!!

Seriously ? The only person in this thread who " want a nerf for the thing that killed him " is you.

Azurya wrote: »

still getting killed in cyro by this skill and think it needs a workover to reduce that dmg-output, because it is certainly not thought at as an execute, but it functions like one NOW!!!

nerf it, and nerf it thoroughly!

Not to be a mean guy or anything, but that post was sarcasm mate. It was clearly a joke.

Frags needs it’s damage back. If you look at skills like merciless and snipe it just doesn’t compare. It applies no debuffs. That needs to be fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea if the devs are aware of this?

Not from this guy, he's a stamnb main and a bad one aswell he means what he's saying about sorcs

When I saw “hits as hard as an ultimate” I laughed, and I honestly thought it was a joke/humor.

I mean, my frags usually hit for like 6-8K against people actually wearing armor. I do that with flame reach, but at least that applies a DOT and knocks back.

We’re asking for another ten percent. It’s not much but it could make dual wield Sorc builds more viable.

BohnT · March 2018

Apherius wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

I'd be happy if they just brought back the stun in PvE only. It would make solo and 4 men gameplay much more fun.

I don't mind leaving it off for PvP. After all PvP is the source of all the most idiotic nerfs we have got throughout the years.

Why do People don't get that most nerfs were done both due to pvp and PvE?

Frag damage nerf was done due to pve
Frag stun removal was done due to PvP
Sustain changes were done due to PvP AND PvE
Destro Ult nerfs were done due to both PvE and PvP
Radiant Destruction nerf was done due to PvE and PvP
Proc set crit nerf was done due to PvE and PvP

NPCs don't cry on the forums. What's the point removing stun in PvE? 90% of trial NPCs are immune anyway. Are you implying frags stun made 4 men too easy?

The above "nerf system" is flawed: it comes with two "nerfs sources" (PvP and PvE) which stack on a single class skill.

This is how we got the current boring, flattened, streamlined classes. If you take nerf inputs from multiple sources and stack them all on a single ability, that ability becomes garbage.
At this point, just end the misery, make us all only auto-attack so we don't break this precious PvE balance.

No but a stun on a high damage ability is a problem in PvP.
If you could read my post again you'd see that the CC removal was done due to pvp, if you need CCs in PvE you are certainly at a level where you shouldn't be talking about balance

But a snare on a skill that deal even more damage isn't a problem ( humhum merciless resolve again ) ?
We literraly throw a big pebble to the enemy but ... it just deal damage
But a spectral bow should reduce the movement speed ? I just don't understand.

The snare is the same you have on your enemy with cripple,i couldn't care less if they removed it.

I have no problem with increasing the damage back to 20% but a stun on frags is too much

BohnT · March 2018

Minalan wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Apherius wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

In this game we have some very egocentric and selfish players
they think they are awesome and all in this game should be adjusted around them
because they are so awesome it is impossible that they die! IMPOSSIBLE!
if they die they ask beforehand for a nerf to that ability, that skill, that combo, that class
they want a nerf for that thing that killed them, because it is impossible that they die

and then they go to the forum and beg, yell, whine for a nerf for this and that!
This must have an end!
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel and anyone else @ZOS pls let this have an end
give those players an server for themselves and let them be happy there with their awesome builds forever
but please put an end to the NERF-TERROR they produce every day!!!

Seriously ? The only person in this thread who " want a nerf for the thing that killed him " is you.

Azurya wrote: »

still getting killed in cyro by this skill and think it needs a workover to reduce that dmg-output, because it is certainly not thought at as an execute, but it functions like one NOW!!!

nerf it, and nerf it thoroughly!

Not to be a mean guy or anything, but that post was sarcasm mate. It was clearly a joke.

Frags needs it’s damage back. If you look at skills like merciless and snipe it just doesn’t compare. It applies no debuffs. That needs to be fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno any idea if the devs are aware of this?

Not from this guy, he's a stamnb main and a bad one aswell he means what he's saying about sorcs

When I saw “hits as hard as an ultimate” I laughed, and I honestly thought it was a joke/humor.

I mean, my frags usually hit for like 6-8K against people actually wearing armor. I do that with flame reach, but at least that applies a DOT and knocks back.

We’re asking for another ten percent. It’s not much but it could make dual wield Sorc builds more viable.

My frags still hit for 2k more than my reach with destro ult