Maintenance for the week of April 6:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 6
In a lot of ways, I think ESO has the worst playerbase skill wise.
-
altemriel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Disclaimer: I play on Xbox One X and semi-rant coming:
I've played a lot of MMO's and have done a lot of what you would call "hardcore" raiding and stuff. WoW and FFXIV were the main ones. So, the new dungeons came out and personally, (Zaan's stupid poison RNG aside) I think they are REALLY fun. I love the mechanics and think it's a great time...if you do not PUG it. This goes for all DLC dungeons and even some (II) dungeons. Like, I feel that while ESO has created a mentality of "Do whatever you want", it isn't really like that for endgame content. You cannot in fact do whatever you want. It will not work most of the time.
Because of this, PUGS are unbearable. Other MMO's seem to train the player from the start and while when a new WoW dungeon came out, there may of been some difficulties, it could be cleared by PUGS. Here? No way. It is a NIGHTMARE ti pug all the DLc dungeons. Hell, people struggle on Wayrest Sewers 1's last boss. You know.. the easiest dungeon in the game.
That said, I understand that people have to learn, but still, I feel the "average" player in ESO is much worse than the average player in WoW/FFXIV, Rift, etc.
I feel it has something to do with "I can do what I want and be what I want" mentality and also the fact that I do not think ESO teaches you what you need to know before going into endgame. Older dungeons on normal are TOO easy and then a lot of vet stuff is too hard. I wish there was a middle difficultly.
Anywho, love the new dungeons and love the changes, but I just wanted to rant a bit while I'm at work and nothing is happening.
normal dungeons can be all cleared mostly very easily with pugs, vets I don`t know0 -
Smmokkee✭✭✭✭✭Of course it's an unskilled playerbase. When the same 3-4 abilities can be spammed in succession and get kills that can't be countered due to lag, anyone can be a master PVPer. It's like the guy in your typical FPS game who sits back and snipes with a rifle then thinks himself elite each time he gets a kill with it. Or the noob who always rushes with a shotgun and blasts people point blank with a one-hit kill yet insists it requires skill to do.
Lol false news.
So ridiculous.
Edited by Smmokkee on March 2, 2018 8:19PM3 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I still say this game would benefit greatly if there was a solid tutorial that gave you the proper knowledge of the basics.
Adding a prerequisite quest to the start of the Undaunted would be the perfect place for this tutorial as playing in a group is very different from solo and needs a much different approach to it. Make it a mandatory instance to fully explain combat. Have it have a tank/healer/DPS option, explaining what's expected of you as far as roles are concerned.
For tanks, have it so that it explains exactly what a taunt is and which targets should be their primary focus. What they should block and what they should avoid. As for healers, something I'd like to see in would be you are given a few NPCs to heal but 1 is always out of range or standing in AoEs and you just let them die for it. Your job is to keep the group alive and lone rangers aren't part of the group. For DPS, it should be little more than learning to AoE or focus down targets in order for the group to win. Have it award Skill Points and some Trainee Gear for completion.
Even this won't be enough but damn if it's at least a start. Mechanics are another story entirely.
I miss my macros in FFXIV.
Edited by Silver_Strider on March 3, 2018 4:20AMArgonian forever4 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Disclaimer: I play on Xbox One X and semi-rant coming:
I've played a lot of MMO's and have done a lot of what you would call "hardcore" raiding and stuff. WoW and FFXIV were the main ones. So, the new dungeons came out and personally, (Zaan's stupid poison RNG aside) I think they are REALLY fun. I love the mechanics and think it's a great time...if you do not PUG it. This goes for all DLC dungeons and even some (II) dungeons. Like, I feel that while ESO has created a mentality of "Do whatever you want", it isn't really like that for endgame content. You cannot in fact do whatever you want. It will not work most of the time.
Because of this, PUGS are unbearable. Other MMO's seem to train the player from the start and while when a new WoW dungeon came out, there may of been some difficulties, it could be cleared by PUGS. Here? No way. It is a NIGHTMARE ti pug all the DLc dungeons. Hell, people struggle on Wayrest Sewers 1's last boss. You know.. the easiest dungeon in the game.
That said, I understand that people have to learn, but still, I feel the "average" player in ESO is much worse than the average player in WoW/FFXIV, Rift, etc.
I feel it has something to do with "I can do what I want and be what I want" mentality and also the fact that I do not think ESO teaches you what you need to know before going into endgame. Older dungeons on normal are TOO easy and then a lot of vet stuff is too hard. I wish there was a middle difficultly.
Anywho, love the new dungeons and love the changes, but I just wanted to rant a bit while I'm at work and nothing is happening.
Are you really trying to say WOW was hard core? *** man that game was like candy land, pfft.0 -
Azyle1✭✭✭✭✭Disclaimer: I play on Xbox One X and semi-rant coming:
I've played a lot of MMO's and have done a lot of what you would call "hardcore" raiding and stuff. WoW and FFXIV were the main ones. So, the new dungeons came out and personally, (Zaan's stupid poison RNG aside) I think they are REALLY fun. I love the mechanics and think it's a great time...if you do not PUG it. This goes for all DLC dungeons and even some (II) dungeons. Like, I feel that while ESO has created a mentality of "Do whatever you want", it isn't really like that for endgame content. You cannot in fact do whatever you want. It will not work most of the time.
Because of this, PUGS are unbearable. Other MMO's seem to train the player from the start and while when a new WoW dungeon came out, there may of been some difficulties, it could be cleared by PUGS. Here? No way. It is a NIGHTMARE ti pug all the DLc dungeons. Hell, people struggle on Wayrest Sewers 1's last boss. You know.. the easiest dungeon in the game.
That said, I understand that people have to learn, but still, I feel the "average" player in ESO is much worse than the average player in WoW/FFXIV, Rift, etc.
I feel it has something to do with "I can do what I want and be what I want" mentality and also the fact that I do not think ESO teaches you what you need to know before going into endgame. Older dungeons on normal are TOO easy and then a lot of vet stuff is too hard. I wish there was a middle difficultly.
Anywho, love the new dungeons and love the changes, but I just wanted to rant a bit while I'm at work and nothing is happening.
Are you really trying to say WOW was hard core? *** man that game was like candy land, pfft.
I said I did some higher end raids with a good guild. Not that WoW was hardcore. Read dude.
Also from my post you could argue I was saying ESO is much more difficult than WoW.1 -
Vermintide✭✭✭✭While I think OP hit one the correct cause of certain problems, he has it backwards in regards to why that is a bad thing.
This game allows you to make a totally broken pants on head *** junk build. WoW doesn't allow that. FFXIV doesn't allow that. What OP considers "training" players is, to my mind, simply railroading them.
Of course anyone can just go to Youtube and find whatever the current patch "meta" build is, but when you get people hitting 30k+ DPS on non-meta builds like a DW magblade or a 2h stamwarden... That's actual variety. Easily enough damage to skip mechanics in most dungeons. You barely need 20k to complete them comfortably.
I have a much greater feeling of accomplishment in this game for actually figuring out how to make my character effective by myself, and moreover, the fact I struggled through for such a long time with a gimped heavy armour, sword swinging magicka build. I completed the majority of PVE content with that build, so now that I run staffs and light armour, I feel OP as ***.
Of course this leaves us open to some very bad PUG experiences, but frankly, I think that's more of a problem with the social skills of experienced players, than the playing skills of the noobs.0 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭1) ESO marketed them selves as as a make your self anyway you want all builds will be viable for all content of the game. this was a huge relief from "everyone who plays this class must be just like this"... how utterly boring that became over time. Yes you can always find exceptions to that but for the most part its true. But ESO seems to have evolved backwards as now most people just copy a few build types and that's it. again there will be people are going to quote this and post there exception to the rule but that's all it will ever be, much easier for them to post the exceptions than me posting the endless posts of the primary builds being used.
2) you are a dying breed, the days of everyone wanting to spending countless hours playing trial's or raids\ dungeon over and over and over and over again is so boring... who the hell can enjoy doing the same content the same way again and again and again. That's what they call Grinding for your gear, that is NOT a positive term but some how became accepted as the normal. when games like this were first developed yea it would keep people occupied but not as much anymore, fun to explore it once or twice and perhaps help some new friends out with but it really ends there for the majority. This is why so many game are focusing on PVP as end game content, yes it can be the same map and the same objectives but when playing against people as much as they can be creatures of habits it tends to be a dynamic environment.
3) Power gamer's or people play who spend every waking moment when not working a job in these games is a small minority in the gaming community yet in the past they were (and can still be) the driving force behind how difficult a game would be made but that is not where the real money is, its with the casual gamer and their majority in numbers and publishers are starting to realize this. I don't have time to GRIND for equipment or have time for repetitive mechanics again and again and again... I play for entertainment and Grinding is not that, the causal gamer is willing to do this a few times but then no more.
The Player base is not dumb, its just not as easily amused by simple repeat mechanics that are so difficult to use... <-- what ? here is my example
to win a fight with Boss A you must do
Step one just like this
step two just like this
step three just like this
step four just like this
step 5 just like this
... Mess up on any step and you die instantly start over... really this is entertainment? not to a majority of gamer's our there.
4) last thought, when they force people to do things they don't enjoy they are not as likely to learn what needs to be done, think about a class you took in school you hated and unless your drive no matter what was to get an A you most likely didn't do very well or once done never went back to it again to truly master it. Most just want to get the thing over with and be done with it but they NEED the reward for it like a monster helm to complete an armor set to be viable in PVP. This is why they should never mix PVP and PVE rewards for equipment in games, those who love PVP should not have to endure PVE repetitive crap to be viable in pvp and PVE players should not have to endure PVP for equipment to be better in PVE.
dang i gotta go to work now...
It's actually quite refreshing to hear that I'm not the only one who doesn't like how every game these days seems to be turning into Dark Souls.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »PvE doesn't exist to be fun, it exists to be done
PvP is where the fun is
Funny...I hear some people say exactly the opposite.5 -
SodanTok✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You can play however you want and do well above average in this game. You can easily find any build that offers meaningful combination of gear and well even if you go for something totally stupid (like dunno, bow/destro build) you can still actually perform ok (even vet dungeons ok I would say).
People dont peform ok because half of them dont know how and half of them dont care for it. Before skill advisor, the only way for people to figure out to use food, potions, more skills than light attacks, were (mostly) rage whispers and group kicks. Even with the skill advisor there is still very little information about how to use them properly. There is 0 ingame information about weaving at all. Hell, I am half sure most new players, starting in vvardenfell, find mundus stones by accident or from advice of other players.
Then there are all the things that are very misleading or flat-out lie. We have various tooltip bugs for year(s). A lot of new players have no idea what 'adds 2148 crit rating' even means. Then all the hidden things like how stuff is calculated. That some stats are more valuable than others. That some stats arent affeced at all. That 10% of your stamina regen wont be 10% of your current regen. That the spell damage wont help your pet damage one bit, ...
The game is so much focused on casual players looking for skyrim online, that it actively avoids letting them do more than just play skyrim online, unless they already came interested in the endgame stuff.6 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I've seen some shocking max cp people in both pvp and pve.
Just by the time they must of played to get that cp it's weird how people can be so nooby when they play.
The game doesn't encourage you to improve, you can light attack your way through most of the pve and the only real 'harder' pve you can be carried through.
In pvp if you just zerg for a few hundred hours you wont get better, the game doesn't exactly suggest to play small scale or solo people but it's a lot harder and the devs don't really support it judging by the changes they seem to do.
I've seen some grand overlords in pvp who must have a couple hundred days playtime on that character and they play as if they've just hit pvp 50 for the first time.
So yeah the average skill level in this game is very, very low.PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...1 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I blame the RP’ers! Those creepy weenies who are way too invested in their characters and backstories, makes me wanna puke!0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LiquidPony wrote: »
The big difference, to me, is easy text chat on PC. Very easy to quickly explain mechanics, make suggestions, etc. On console, if people aren't in voice chat, communication is somewhere between painfully slow and impossible.
Anyway, strikes me as very /r/pcmasterrace.
On the other hand, lack of voice chat can be a real problem during fights.
Obviously, there are workarounds, such as going with guildmates.
But absent those, I find DLC dungeons challenging and indeed haven't tried most of them. (I have, however, done vet WGT in a PUG.) Edited by FrancisCrawford on March 3, 2018 9:11AM0 -
FrancisCrawford✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭normal dungeons can be all cleared mostly very easily with pugs, vets I don`t know
I can heal almost any group through any of the easiest 14 dungeons, normal mode. Any specific mechanics are simple enough that they usually get handled.
Selene's Web and Blackheart Haven actually need some DPS, however -- nothing elite, but it can't be totally bad either or you'll eventually get overwhelmed.0 -
witchdoctor✭✭✭✭✭
✭I was going to say something snarky ... but then was 1/3 on normDC2 ...
Oh, when you see doing 45+% DPS and 95+% healing ...1 -
CompM4s✭✭✭✭✭Its kind of play like you want. Pick one of the many different builds that work. Or come up with a build that works. But it has to work. Even in skyrim no one made a character that couldnt beat the game.0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You can play however you want and do well above average in this game. You can easily find any build that offers meaningful combination of gear and well even if you go for something totally stupid (like dunno, bow/destro build) you can still actually perform ok (even vet dungeons ok I would say).
People dont peform ok because half of them dont know how and half of them dont care for it. Before skill advisor, the only way for people to figure out to use food, potions, more skills than light attacks, were (mostly) rage whispers and group kicks. Even with the skill advisor there is still very little information about how to use them properly. There is 0 ingame information about weaving at all. Hell, I am half sure most new players, starting in vvardenfell, find mundus stones by accident or from advice of other players.
Then there are all the things that are very misleading or flat-out lie. We have various tooltip bugs for year(s). A lot of new players have no idea what 'adds 2148 crit rating' even means. Then all the hidden things like how stuff is calculated. That some stats are more valuable than others. That some stats arent affeced at all. That 10% of your stamina regen wont be 10% of your current regen. That the spell damage wont help your pet damage one bit, ...
The game is so much focused on casual players looking for skyrim online, that it actively avoids letting them do more than just play skyrim online, unless they already came interested in the endgame stuff.
Actually ZOS now explains how to light attack weave in one of the Level Up Advisor tips. Its a step in the right direction.2 -
DoctorESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Yes, surely the President of Nintendo knew nothing about making fun video games, right?
Edited by DoctorESO on March 3, 2018 3:03PM0 -
James-Wayne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Might just be the console crowd... Completely different on PC.PERTH, AUSTRALIA | PC | NA | @Aussie-Elders
TENTH ANNIVERSARY - Thanks for sticking with us for 10 years.
James-Wayne you earned this badge 9:56AM on 4th of February 2024.
529 people have also earned this badge.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yeah their have been quite a few times that i have just quit the dungeon before we even started. Get dropped in as a healer on vet mazzatun and the dps are both under 100 CPs. Its just not worth wasting time.
With that being said i usually dont mind 1 potatoe tagging along, aslong as the rest of the group is capable of picking up the slack and the dungeon is doable in a somewhat decent amount of time.
Nothing worse than spending 4 hours on 1 dungeon.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭When you join your local sports club and start roleplaying on a soccer field or stand in the corner of the basketball court, enjoying the scenery rather than being a valueable part of the team, you will soon lose your right to participate.
Believe it or not, joining a team for dungeons, trials or any other group content in ESO is in no way different. If you’re not a team player, you don’t deserve to be a part of the team. That includes the lack of willingness to improve.
Play as you want as long as you don’t show up for group content where you have to work together to accomplish a goal. There’s no room for an egoistic approach in that.
This is an overly simplistic approach that doesn't accurately account for sports clubs nor does it accurately account for the "play as you want" mentality, or rather the issues that arise from the supposed "play as you want" mentality.
Sports teams do not have class/race/patch balance systems that constantly mix up the "meta". Sports teams do not change the rules on a quarterly basis much less a weekly or monthly basis based on streamers videos, and when the rules change there is more time for you to adjust and adapt to game changes. Sports teams by and large do not kick you off the team because you lack the newest pair of ***'s(WTF N-I-K-E is a tennis shoe for goodness sake, how is this a bad word?) or Adidas foot wear, lack a sweat band, or have shorts that are too loose.
In sports teams you are tasked with playing a certain role and are not sat because this patch Hispanics are perceived to be better at your role. Sports teams do not hold combines 24/7 where if someone happens to be faster than you in a sprint they can instantly replace you on the team. Sports teams operate in seasons and there are training periods leading up to the season and there are almost entirely not massive team changes throughout the season. By and large every player knows their role through the season, and by and large there are only minimal changes to the team through the season. The starting roster may fluctuate some based on performance WITHIN the competitive field, but Johnny being super strong doesn't mean he's suddenly the best player or batter.
In both sports and video games there are players that will do anything to "win" including cheat, find loop holes to "not cheat" but gain an advantage, or even spend hours grinding down leather straps, spikes or what have you to find any theoretical advantage. In general this attitude is not promoted or considered healthy in sports or video games, however video games allow people to hide most of the negative effects of such a lifestyle.
Edited by Toc de Malsvi on March 3, 2018 5:49PMLegendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
CromulentForumID✭✭✭✭We lack some kind of tutorials and training
I think we as gamers tend to give the developers a lot more slack than we should.
For example, in these kind of group content threads, you can usually see things like:
"There's no excuse for not knowing how to do this content. Check out Twitch or Youtube!"
"Stop wasting my time and do a web search for the dungeon first!"
It's becoming, or has become, acceptable to have homework as a pre-requisite for playing a game. Developer does not explain dungeons or powers well? Use Google!
It's not just this game. We seem to be very willing to jump on players who don't understand game concepts, and not the developers who didn't explain it within their game.
Maybe there's just too much to ESO to have it all within the game. I can accept that. But maybe we then get a little more patient with our fellow players who don't know those things you find essential.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭That isn't to even consider the variety of levels of sports clubs and the involvement therein. The expectations for Professional athletes does not come close to the expectations of players for a pickup basketball game or intramural league.
Certainly there are players who perform so poorly that they make runs arduous, however these players are used as a scapegoat for groups to kick anyone who is doing something outside their organized belief system within the game. I have personally had groups that kicked me or didn't want to take me because I was using a bow, where I not only out performed them on DPS test's I out performed them in various arena's such as VMA or VDSA. There is far more possible within this game than most players allow for.
I have to agree with the sentiment that ESO has a less mature(as gamers) player base, but that also extends to those trying to enforce idyllic restraints on other players to fit them within their own biased view of the game.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..0 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »
Yes, surely the President of Nintendo knew nothing about making fun video games, right?
C'mon, they do have a point. I find pvp utterly boring in this game, going around killing random players for ap? Bragging rights? To win a war no one outside of cyrodiil even mentions? Win/lose I don't care.
Meh, means nothing to me, not fun at all.
At the same time I'm sure what I consider fun, going around killing nothing but WB's over and over like a beautiful ballot two step dance would be considered utterly boring, fighting enemies who are predictable and yada yada yada.
If I die to a WB I'm actually upset with myself lol. Crazy right? Dying to another player? Meh, don't care. Die to a npc? Enraged lol. Why's that you say? If I die to a player it could be for any number of reasons, being outplayed being the least likely. Dying to an npc means I missed something or overextended myself and I should have known better and I'm mad at myself for doing so.
Different strokes for different folks and all that jazz.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway1
