In a lot of ways, I think ESO has the worst playerbase skill wise.

Azyle1

Disclaimer: I play on Xbox One X and semi-rant coming:

I've played a lot of MMO's and have done a lot of what you would call "hardcore" raiding and stuff. WoW and FFXIV were the main ones. So, the new dungeons came out and personally, (Zaan's stupid poison RNG aside) I think they are REALLY fun. I love the mechanics and think it's a great time...if you do not PUG it. This goes for all DLC dungeons and even some (II) dungeons. Like, I feel that while ESO has created a mentality of "Do whatever you want", it isn't really like that for endgame content. You cannot in fact do whatever you want. It will not work most of the time.

Because of this, PUGS are unbearable. Other MMO's seem to train the player from the start and while when a new WoW dungeon came out, there may of been some difficulties, it could be cleared by PUGS. Here? No way. It is a NIGHTMARE ti pug all the DLc dungeons. Hell, people struggle on Wayrest Sewers 1's last boss. You know.. the easiest dungeon in the game.

That said, I understand that people have to learn, but still, I feel the "average" player in ESO is much worse than the average player in WoW/FFXIV, Rift, etc.

I feel it has something to do with "I can do what I want and be what I want" mentality and also the fact that I do not think ESO teaches you what you need to know before going into endgame. Older dungeons on normal are TOO easy and then a lot of vet stuff is too hard. I wish there was a middle difficultly.

Anywho, love the new dungeons and love the changes, but I just wanted to rant a bit while I'm at work and nothing is happening.

VaranisArano

You can complete all of ESO's content by playing how you want, so long as you respect certain hard mechanics and hit a minimum group DPS.

You will not, however, complete such content efficiently.

Doctordarkspawn

The game tells you, that you get to do what you want just like an elder scrolls game. That's a blatent lie, and most people would rather play at a lower level than adapt. And quite frankly, adapting to a crappy meta full of paint by numbers builds? Not a fan.

Ragnarock41

I mean, people play this like its skyrim online, what more do you expect

even the thing we call 1vX is all about murdering a bunch of no skill players.

Azyle1

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The game tells you, that you get to do what you want just like an elder scrolls game. That's a blatent lie, and most people would rather play at a lower level than adapt. And quite frankly, adapting to a crappy meta full of paint by numbers builds? Not a fan.

Yeah, I think ESO has a lot more flexibility than other games by a mile. However, you're gonna have a bad time if you are a stamblade wearing light armor with a resto staff trying to tank.

Apache_Kid

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I mean, people play this like its skyrim online, what more do you expect

This is a big part of it.

Many players who buy this game purchased it because they played the other TES single-player titles and are looking for another game in the universe because TES VI seems to be very far away even at this point. These players play the game like Skyrim like playing in first person, spamming light attacks, not using item sets, etc. Warcraft and other games didn't have causal single-player RPGs in the same universe that it was funneling players in from. Warcraft was an RTS and I'm not sure if the cross-over there was big or not. That is the difference.

KiraTsukasa

No, you're right, it is the "play what you want" mentality the game provides. Other games, you pick a class and that class has a role and you learn that role and become an expert in that role. ESO lacks that focus so it's quite easy to turn into a jack of all trades, master of none if you don't know what you're doing. I wouldn't necessarily call it wrong or bad, it's just the nature of the game.

griffkhalifa

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but I haven't had any trouble completing vet dungeons with PUGs since I came back to the game about a month ago.

Anyway, maybe you should find a guild to run dungeons with instead of PUGs.

Azyle1

Apache_Kid wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

I mean, people play this like its skyrim online, what more do you expect

This is a big part of it.

Many players who buy this game purchased it because they played the other TES single-player titles and are looking for another game in the universe because TES VI seems to be very far away even at this point. These players play the game like Skyrim like playing in first person, spamming light attacks, not using item sets, etc. Warcraft and other games didn't have causal single-player RPGs in the same universe that it was funneling players in from. Warcraft was an RTS and I'm not sure if the cross-over there was big or not. That is the difference.

Yeah, this makes sense for sure. I guess people don't get what kind of game it is.

Hurtfan

I blame the millennials, they're always half-assing everything...

I keed I keed

Tan9oSuccka

Azyle1 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

The game tells you, that you get to do what you want just like an elder scrolls game. That's a blatent lie, and most people would rather play at a lower level than adapt. And quite frankly, adapting to a crappy meta full of paint by numbers builds? Not a fan.

Yeah, I think ESO has a lot more flexibility than other games by a mile. However, you're gonna have a bad time if you are a stamblade wearing light armor with a resto staff trying to tank.

You both are correct.

I despise the yolo swag meta riders.

On the other hand, you can learn from the builds they chase. Get ideas and create on your own.

Prof_Bawbag

Luckily for ZoS, the vast majority of players don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of their skill level. Doubt they lose sleep over it either.

Azyle1

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Luckily for ZoS, the vast majority of players don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of their skill level. Doubt they lose sleep over it either.

I mean, that's fine. I'm not saying people should play how I want them to play. But PUGS are just worse in this game than in others due to people not understanding the game is all.

Azyle1

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but I haven't had any trouble completing vet dungeons with PUGs since I came back to the game about a month ago.

Anyway, maybe you should find a guild to run dungeons with instead of PUGs.

Oh yeah I have a nice guild to run with, but when I am not able to run with them, I often times dread PUGS.

Also I am all for helping people and teaching. I've made a few friends in PUGS by giving helpful advice but a lot do have that "ITS MY GAME ILL PLAY HOW I WANT AND YOU CANT TELL ME ANYTHING" mentality.

Asardes

PuG-ing is bad on PC too, and PuG-ing DLC dungeons on veteran is a downright nightmare. And from what I've seen on the forum I think consoles have it even worse than PC from this point of view. Console players seem to know & care less about builds and mechanics than PC ones, and I've even also noticed that confrontational attitudes are more prevalent among them. I suspect different demographics, with console players being less mature on average than PC ones.

Azyle1

Asardes wrote: »

PuG-ing is bad on PC too, and PuG-ing DLC dungeons on veteran is a downright nightmare. And from what I've seen on the forum I think consoles have it even worse than PC from this point of view. Console players seem to know & care less about builds and mechanics than PC ones, and I've even also noticed that confrontational attitudes are more prevalent among them. I suspect different demographics, with console players being less mature on average than PC ones.

I figured it couldn't be sunshine and rainbows on PC, either. Like last night, I was pugging a Zaan fight. Had a tank come in and unfortunately people had to go. However, since we didn't clear when the new tank came in, he wasn't upset.

Why? Because the 4 or so attempts we did with our new tank friend allowed him to see the whole fight and learn. He was grateful for the knowledge. Need more people like that in this game.

Motherball

The game is fun until you start being told how to play it, imo. I guess thats part of the challenge for some, to hit some goal, but it always felt like a chore to me. Id rather slum it and have fun than try to meet someone else’s expectations.

KiraTsukasa

Azyle1 wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but I haven't had any trouble completing vet dungeons with PUGs since I came back to the game about a month ago.

Anyway, maybe you should find a guild to run dungeons with instead of PUGs.

Oh yeah I have a nice guild to run with, but when I am not able to run with them, I often times dread PUGS.

Also I am all for helping people and teaching. I've made a few friends in PUGS by giving helpful advice but a lot do have that "ITS MY GAME ILL PLAY HOW I WANT AND YOU CANT TELL ME ANYTHING" mentality.

No one likes a backseat gamer. In a game that allows you such a freedom, you're the annoyance for trying to tell people to play your way instead of theirs.

Prof_Bawbag

Azyle1 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Luckily for ZoS, the vast majority of players don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of their skill level. Doubt they lose sleep over it either.

I mean, that's fine. I'm not saying people should play how I want them to play. But PUGS are just worse in this game than in others due to people not understanding the game is all.

I wasn't actually having a dig at you. The reality is, the vast majority of players don't really care what the more experienced players think of them. Some of the worst grps I've been in have been filled with good players. Did the content get done efficiently? Yes, but at a cost. Some of those people suck any sort of enjoyment out of the game and makes me wonder why they even play the game. Bickering amongst themselves, being condescending towards one another and so on. All adds up to one huge unenjoyable experience. Yet, on the flip side, I'm in a guild that excludes no one other than what the game dictates (no low levels in vets etc). We've completed most trials, had great laughs watching a supposed tank die umpteen dozen times etc etc. It was relaxing, it was fun and everyone comes away from these events wanting more.

Azyle1

Motherball wrote: »

The game is fun until you start being told how to play it, imo. I guess thats part of the challenge for some, to hit some goal, but it always felt like a chore to me. Id rather slum it and have fun than try to meet someone else’s expectations.

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

griffkhalifa wrote: »

Maybe I've just been getting lucky, but I haven't had any trouble completing vet dungeons with PUGs since I came back to the game about a month ago.

Anyway, maybe you should find a guild to run dungeons with instead of PUGs.

Oh yeah I have a nice guild to run with, but when I am not able to run with them, I often times dread PUGS.

Also I am all for helping people and teaching. I've made a few friends in PUGS by giving helpful advice but a lot do have that "ITS MY GAME ILL PLAY HOW I WANT AND YOU CANT TELL ME ANYTHING" mentality.

No one likes a backseat gamer. In a game that allows you such a freedom, you're the annoyance for trying to tell people to play your way instead of theirs.

Offering friendly advice / tips =/= telling people how to play.

It's GROUP content. So I will try to offer advice or strategies. Don't twist the words.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Asardes wrote: »

PuG-ing is bad on PC too, and PuG-ing DLC dungeons on veteran is a downright nightmare. And from what I've seen on the forum I think consoles have it even worse than PC from this point of view. Console players seem to know & care less about builds and mechanics than PC ones, and I've even also noticed that confrontational attitudes are more prevalent among them. I suspect different demographics, with console players being less mature on average than PC ones.

This BS, PC is best, PC is mature, PC is better at skill. BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Azyle1

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Azyle1 wrote: »

Prof_Bawbag wrote: »

Luckily for ZoS, the vast majority of players don't really care what you or anyone else thinks of their skill level. Doubt they lose sleep over it either.

I mean, that's fine. I'm not saying people should play how I want them to play. But PUGS are just worse in this game than in others due to people not understanding the game is all.

I wasn't actually having a dig at you. The reality is, the vast majority of players don't really care what the more experienced players think of them. Some of the worst grps I've been in have been filled with good players. Did the content get done efficiently? Yes, but at a cost. Some of those people suck any sort of enjoyment out of the game and makes me wonder why they even play the game. Bickering amongst themselves, being condescending towards one another and so on. All adds up to one huge unenjoyable experience. Yet, on the flip side, I'm in a guild that excludes no one other than what the game dictates (no low levels in vets etc). We've completed most trials, had great laughs watching a supposed tank die umpteen dozen times etc etc. It was relaxing, it was fun and everyone comes away from these events wanting more.

Gotcha. Good stuff there.

griffkhalifa

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

No one likes a backseat gamer. In a game that allows you such a freedom, you're the annoyance for trying to tell people to play your way instead of theirs.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say but group content requires group communication/teamwork and if some players are holding up other from completing it then the ones that want to complete are right to be frustrated.

I don't think he was saying he cares what they do in overland, just in dungeons when they are restricting his ability to complete the content.

Azyle1

griffkhalifa wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

No one likes a backseat gamer. In a game that allows you such a freedom, you're the annoyance for trying to tell people to play your way instead of theirs.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say but group content requires group communication/teamwork and if some players are holding up other from completing it then the ones that want to complete are right to be frustrated.

I don't think he was saying he cares what they do in overland, just in dungeons when they are restricting his ability to complete the content.

Yeah, I'm pretty relaxed about a lot of things. I will offer advice and stuff, but I'm not gonna rage out. If someone has a strange set up, that's fine, but if something is blatantly hindering us towards completion, then why should that one person's sillyness ruin the rest of the group content?

Sergykid

play what you want, yes, but that should not include spamming one spell or even worse, light attacks. Quests and the game, in general, are too forgiving with this no brain playstyle.

Animus-ESO

I simply refuse to pug any dungeon at this point. If you cant pull 20k single target dps, I refuse to group with you ugh. 20k is achievable threw heavy attacks and 1 dot skill alone.

Azyle1

Sergykid wrote: »

play what you want, yes, but that should not include spamming one spell or even worse, light attacks. Quests and the game, in general, are too forgiving with this no brain playstyle.

Well... that's sort of my complaint. The game has no middle ground. It's either braindead easy or then.. well whatever you see with the DLC dungeons. Mind you, with a little patience and knowledge, nothing is super "hard" but I think you get the point.

Demycilian

RPG playerbase meets terrible game design decisions.

Cadbury

I wonder too, if it's a difference in culture (NA, EU)

The only other MMO I play on console (PS4) is FFXIV. I play on a JP server, and there is a night-and-day difference from the NA and EU servers. You don't encounter the elitism or rage. Any mistakes are forgiven after an apology. They maintain a "blacklist" for things like ninja looting, scams, subpar players, etc.

Sure, the language barrier is there, but they're pretty lenient on us English speakers. Just be humble and you'll be fine.


Trust and believe, if ESO had a JP server, I'd be on it.

Edit: ESO also needs to look at FFXIV's Hall of the Novice and Mentor network

KiraTsukasa

griffkhalifa wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

No one likes a backseat gamer. In a game that allows you such a freedom, you're the annoyance for trying to tell people to play your way instead of theirs.

I mean, I get what you're trying to say but group content requires group communication/teamwork and if some players are holding up other from completing it then the ones that want to complete are right to be frustrated.

I don't think he was saying he cares what they do in overland, just in dungeons when they are restricting his ability to complete the content.

There's a difference between communication in a group activity and telling people what they can and can't do. And he's doing the latter.

Wrecking_Blow_Spam

The trick is to somehow find a guild or group of very skilled players who are also decent people, I haven't managed this, there's always a rotten apple among them.

As you said, the rare time u come across a capable player more, often than not they suck the fun out of it, are condescending etc.

Also not an MMO but the fifa player base as a whole are shocking, many on skill level and the majority shocking on attitude level.
Just yesterday I was beating someone 4-0 and he rage quit, only to send a rage induced message of how lucky and terrible I am. This is recurring theme on there.