Goodbye for Miats?
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vyndral13preub18_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
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some classes can't just give up an ability slot just to counter stealth. Not everyone has the luxury to use that without losing something else. Just like saying that everyone must use shieldbreaker for mag builds, but u r losing another important set which is needed against stam builds.
I sort of thought that was the idea behind they way they wanted to balance things. You might have a counter for this but not that. Are you suppose to be able to build and have a counter for everything?
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Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
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Certainly more skillful than sniping an already engaged player from Nikel rooftop.
If I see a comrade fighting an enemy from the roof. Heck yeah, I’m going to animation cancel snipes from stealth.
Stay away from our outpost.
Skilled? It’s a video game. Is really anything “skill”?5 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »
If I see a comrade fighting an enemy from the roof. Heck yeah, I’m going to animation cancel snipes from stealth.
Stay away from our outpost.
Skilled? It’s a video game. Is really anything “skill”?
Skill is relative. But I think we can agree that sitting at safety atop a tower and pushing one button isn’t skill of any kind.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar2 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
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Skill is relative. But I think we can agree that sitting at safety atop a tower and pushing one button isn’t skill of any kind.
Oh I agree, it isn’t skill. Nor is kiting enemies around rocks and ulti dump cheesing.
My safety is ensured. My comrade lived....and there’s a dead banana on the ground.
Sounds like a win all around.8 -
Jamini✭✭✭✭✭The majority of people I see complaining in game about gankers have the same common problem.
As a long-time tank player who PvPs on his tank... I agree with this.
I noticed a huge increase in my performance when I swapped my PvP setup from heavy (Ravager) to medium (bone pirate). With forty points in health (25k with a Camoran throne before battle spirit/no-cp adjustments) I can afford to give up some raw mitigation in exchange for a set that boosts my sustain, resource pool, and a weight that bumps up my raw damage. Being able to use Shuffle+Rally over Forward Momentum + Volatile has also ended up being a net gain for me. (Significantly better self-heals and damage evasion at the cost of outright durability)
Quite a few players go glass-cannon in cyrodiil while forgetting what glass cannon means. Then they cry when another player hits them a few times and shatters them."Adapt. or Die."3 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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Skill is relative. But I think we can agree that sitting at safety atop a tower and pushing one button isn’t skill of any kind.
Skill is relative.
Sun Tzu teaches that the truly skilled warrior maintains all possible advantages, including the high ground
win first, fight second
The only thing in Cyrodiil more hilarious than sniping someone as an outpost archer
is kiting someone to Keep NPCs then laughing while they get swarmed
got too close to an enemy objective and died, how utterly stealthy and unexpected
don't need Miat's at an outpost -- just listen for audio cues that are inevitably incoming"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭PvE players are so biased
What, was this aimed at the comment I made? Okay. I'll bite.
Wrath was made specifically for PVP. It was one of the worst tank nerfs in history. This isn't really desputeable since offense was only a key part of PVE tanking.
The recent nerfs to MagDK were to enforce the new off balance changes, which PVP extensively benefited from, with the increased resources thrown in more as a bone for PVE. (No one in their right mind would chance it to hit a off balance target with a heavy.)
You can likely point to about a thousand nerfs in the history of this game which have PVP's handwriting all over them. Next one, most likeky? Stealth, because I allready see people crying about it. Given the recent nerfing of Miats (Which encouraged people to suck it up and play like men, imagine that, it went over poorly) stealth players will likely get the shaft next.
It isn't biased. It's just observation. PVP tends to scream and cry until it gets what it wants, and the devs tend to cave to them alot more. And given this game was designed for PVP first (As much as people hate to accept this, it was built by some dark age of camelot vets, and the skill system shows for it) and Zeni has consistant trouble pleasing PVE audiences. So why wouldn't they?Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 14, 2018 4:33PM0 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
What, was this aimed at the comment I made? Okay. I'll bite.
Wrath was made specifically for PVP. It was one of the worst tank nerfs in history. This isn't really desputeable since offense was only a key part of PVE tanking.
The recent nerfs to MagDK were to enforce the new off balance changes, which PVP extensively benefited from, with the increased resources thrown in more as a bone for PVE. (No one in their right mind would chance it to hit a off balance target with a heavy.)
You can likely point to about a thousand nerfs in the history of this game which have PVP's handwriting all over them. Next one, most likeky? Stealth, because I allready see people crying about it. Given the recent nerfing of Miats (Which encouraged people to suck it up and play like men, imagine that, it went over poorly) stealth players will likely get the shaft next.
It isn't biased. It's just observation. PVP tends to scream and cry until it gets what it wants, and the devs tend to cave to them alot more. And given this game was designed for PVP first (As much as people hate to accept this, it was built by some dark age of camelot vets, and the skill system shows for it) and Zeni has consistant trouble pleasing PVE audiences. So why wouldn't they?
My comment was related to "Getting notification from Boss attacks is fine but getting notifications from players is not? If you ask me both of them should be disabled."Because I can!2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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My comment was related to "Getting notification from Boss attacks is fine but getting notifications from players is not? If you ask me both of them should be disabled."
Okay.
Geting notifications from PVE bosses sounds reasonable to me, care to try telling me why it isn't?
Even so, maybe you oughta quote next time.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 14, 2018 4:47PM1 -
Bashev✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Okay.
Geting notifications from PVE bosses sounds reasonable to me, care to try telling me why it isn't?
The logic is the same. You have the visual and the sound for the attacks. You dont need the notifications. Now can you tell me why the boss attack notification is ok but player one is not?Because I can!2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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The logic is the same. You have the visual and the sound for the attacks. You dont need the notifications. Now can you tell me why the boss attack notification is ok but player one is not?
Sometimes no.
PVE characters can get all sorts of animation glitches. We see it alot, actually. I remember a fair few complaint threads about VMA characters sniping with no friggin' animation.
Even then, in the gigantic haze of effects that is this game, it is sometimes hard to see these notifications.
And lastly...okay, we can see them. How does this hurt you? What buisness is this of yours?
As for the player...well. Quite frankly I didn't find Miats to be much of a problem. It leveled the playing field, but I can see why the sixth sense thing would be annoying.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 14, 2018 4:50PM2 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭
The logic is the same. You have the visual and the sound for the attacks. You dont need the notifications. Now can you tell me why the boss attack notification is ok but player one is not?
The logic is not the same as you're missing a key element. The boss notifications don't negatively impact other players playing the same game.
If you want to start arguing that mods that provide a convenience that the UI lacks are now not okay, then lets ban addons entirely.2 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Sometimes no.
PVE characters can get all sorts of animation glitches. We see it alot, actually. I remember a fair few complaint threads about VMA characters sniping with no friggin' animation.
Even then, in the gigantic haze of effects that is this game, it is sometimes hard to see these notifications.
And lastly...okay, we can see them. How does this hurt you? What buisness is this of yours?
As for the player...well. Quite frankly I didn't find Miats to be much of a problem. It leveled the playing field, but I can see why the sixth sense thing would be annoying.
The difference is that not being able to discern the cue the game gives you is a valid reason for PvE but apparently not for PvP.Edited by Feanor on February 14, 2018 4:53PMMain characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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The difference is that not being able to discern the cue the game gives you is a valid reason for PvE but apparently not for PvP.
Well yeah, because PVE has all sorts of animation glitches and crap, and it effects no one negatively.
So I ask again, what's it to you? How is it hurting you? Do you feel immense pain when someone gets a notification on a PVE?
Seems like a classic case of PVP greed to me. If PVP cant play with the toy, they'll make sure no one can.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 14, 2018 4:58PM1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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The logic is the same. You have the visual and the sound for the attacks. You dont need the notifications. Now can you tell me why the boss attack notification is ok but player one is not?
Wasn't the only notification removed the one that indicates when an attack has been made from stealth?
It is to my understanding that the casting notifications are still available while in combat -- is that not the case?
This does bring up an interesting point tho
there was a news story recently about how great it was that Skyrim got a mod for a Nemesis-style boss that tracks the player
would it be an interesting dungeon mechanic or just obnoxious if the final boss was invisible and periodically attacked the group as they traversed the dungeon
something with a randomizer on it so it was different each dungeon play through
could add unique circumstances to a no death run achievement
or it could result in complaints, like people who don't like getting jumped by the Assassin in Xcom 2's War of the Chosen expansion"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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dsalter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭or it could result in complaints, like people who don't like getting jumped by the Assassin in Xcom 2's War of the Chosen expansion
that assassin was the bane of my existance.
they ruined so many good runsPLEASE REPLY TO ME WITH @dsalter otherwise i'm likely to miss the reply if its not my own thread
EU - [Arch Mage Dave] Altmer Sorcerer
Fight back at the crates and boxes, together we can change things.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Well yeah, because PVE has all sorts of animation glitches and crap, and it effects no one negatively.
So I ask again, what's it to you? How is it hurting you? Do you feel immense pain when someone gets a notification on a PVE?
PvP has all sorts of animation glitches too, and it effects everyone who dies to it negatively. Yet it’s totally fine to enhance the game with a notification addon on the PvE side when at the same time you should just suck it up in PvP.
It’s not about wether it hurts someone to have notifications in PvE. It’s about that the situation is identical and therefore the difference illogical.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar2 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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PvP has all sorts of animation glitches too, and it effects everyone who dies to it negatively. Yet it’s totally fine to enhance the game with a notification addon on the PvE side when at the same time you should just suck it up in PvP.
It’s not about wether it hurts someone to have notifications in PvE. It’s about that the situation is identical and therefore the difference illogical.
Yep. Was right.
It is absolutely whether or not it hurts someone to have noficiations. It hurts you. It makes you angry because you dont get to play with the toy, or hate the toy, and therefor no one must play with the toy.
*Officially gives the stamp of 'unfit to be consulted'*. Dismissed. The difference is not illogical, you are just -irrational-. Y'didn't come to this conclusion rationally and therefor I cant talk you out of it, and I'm not dumb enough to waste my time trying. Cheers.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on February 14, 2018 5:02PM2 -
Avran_Sylt✭✭✭✭✭
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You sound very much like a sorcerer back before the bolt escape nerf/cost increase penalty. Or a DK before the plethora of nerfs to their class abilities. There are no sacred cows in a Wrobel world.
You know PvP stealth has been nerfed already, right? It used to add an extra damage multiplier including the stun. Now it just makes your attack crit and stun. My guess if that there would be any nerf, it would be that there is no longer a guaranteed crit.1 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭
The difference is that not being able to discern the cue the game gives you is a valid reason for PvE but apparently not for PvP.
Indeed. Because in PVP, it negatively impacts other users. There's more to the argument than you're simplifying it down to. There have been many cases in MMOs where something that provides a legal benefit in PVE was banned in PVP due to providing an unfair advantage. The ability to see buffs is one of the prime examples in ESO. We are no longer able to see the ongoing buff list on enemy players yet we can see them on NPCs just fine.0 -
exiars10✭✭✭
You can't counter everything i.e. opportunity cost.
some classes can't just give up an ability slot just to counter stealth. Not everyone has the luxury to use that without losing something else. Just like saying that everyone must use shieldbreaker for mag builds, but u r losing another important set which is needed against stam builds.
I don't play ESO since 15.06. because Cyrodiil is broken since Summerset (PvE isn't much better, too)...
Aldmeri Dominion (PC Europe via Steam)
The cowardly Wood Elves are best noted for their unwillingness to engage in a face-to-face attack; a Bosmer will strike at you from every side except the front. You won't cross swords with a Bosmer, but you might catch an arrow in the throat. Be wary in forests and jungles, and watch your back.0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Yep. Was right.
It is absolutely whether or not it hurts someone to have noficiations. It hurts you. It makes you angry because you dont get to play with the toy, or hate the toy, and therefor no one must play with the toy.
*Officially gives the stamp of 'unfit to be consulted'*. Dismissed.
You must have missed the part where I said both addons are not cheating, and I didn’t even use the notifications in Miat‘s. But I’ll just let you stay in your bubble where you think you’re the expert on everything in this game.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar1 -
Thannazzar✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »Wonder what the next thing PVP cry's about will be.
Probably the lack of players in cyrodil after they got sick of being ganked. It will be a single campaign soon called 'Zergville'.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
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xD
it annoyed me because it would show up and severely injure one soldier by engaging from invisible
whereas the Sniper and the Warlock could be countered from the outset and still manage a Flawless mission run
but it also encouraged me to actually hunt it down and take it out of the campaign
and made me manage my soldier pool more tactically, to ensure the right teammates were available for important missions
but as someone who would obsess over trying to set up Overwatch to keep my main soldiers from taking injuries
the engage-from-stealth and don't-trigger-overwatch mechanics of the Assassin in particular made me change up my playstyle more than the others"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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You must have missed the part where I said both addons are not cheating, and I didn’t even use the notifications in Miat‘s. But I’ll just let you stay in your bubble where you think you’re the expert on everything in this game.
Your right, I did, and even re-reading it I cant figure out how you intended to say that, and what your position even is, besides a stunch refusal to have the notifications in PVE, because apparently it's no different, suck it up cupcake, we gotta deal with it, so do you.
It's greed. Plain, and simple, and that's all I need to know. Buh-bye now.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Your right, I did, and even re-reading it I cant figure out how you intended to say that, and what your position even is, besides a stunch refusal to have the notifications in PVE, because apparently it's no different, suck it up cupcake, we gotta deal with it, so do you.
It's greed. Plain, and simple, and that's all I need to know. Buh-bye now.
That greed thing is kind of a fixed idea you have.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:All chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.SpoilerNecrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »
Your right, I did, and even re-reading it I cant figure out how you intended to say that, and what your position even is, besides a stunch refusal to have the notifications in PVE, because apparently it's no different, suck it up cupcake, we gotta deal with it, so do you.
It's greed. Plain, and simple, and that's all I need to know. Buh-bye now.
Don't use Miat's,
Don't use Raid Notifier
so honest question about the latter
When running Wayrest Sewers 1 -- the final boss ambushes a 'random' (seemingly) target
then does a spin attack, the combination of which routinely kills squishy pugs if they fail to block at the teleport skill telegraph
does Raid Notifier tell the specific player she is about to teleport to that an attack is incoming and provide a countdown?
or does it only work on attacks that already have a clear telegraph in the fight
"interrupt now" on the First Mate's one-shot in Blackheart Haven would make perfect sense,
but have no idea what the add on actually does"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
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Don't use Miat's,
Don't use Raid Notifier
so honest question about the latter
When running Wayrest Sewers 1 -- the final boss ambushes a 'random' (seemingly) target
then does a spin attack, the combination of which routinely kills squishy pugs if they fail to block at the teleport skill telegraph
does Raid Notifier tell the specific player she is about to teleport to that an attack is incoming and provide a countdown?
or does it only work on attacks that already have a clear telegraph in the fight
"interrupt now" on the First Mate's one-shot in Blackheart Haven would make perfect sense,
but have no idea what the add on actually does
I have no idea what raid notifier does, but I might go snag it and test.0 -
LordSemaj✭✭✭✭✭does Raid Notifier tell the specific player she is about to teleport to that an attack is incoming and provide a countdown?
or does it only work on attacks that already have a clear telegraph in the fight
I have no idea about that specific fight or the mod itself but let me address boss mechanics.
Many mechanics have no telegraph. Players only know they're coming because they happen at certain boss health percentages or every X amount of seconds. An addon can be used to keep track of how much time has passed during the fight, and so predict when an attack is coming, while also keeping track of phases by watching boss health and reminding you that at 20% health the boss goes into enrage mode. It's not a case of players watching for a telegraph but of players having figured out what the triggering conditions are and looking for those instead. It's a convenience especially for new players to not have to remember a list of conditions but be reminded of them in real time.
Like some conveniences in the game, such as Srendarr's ability to see buffs on other players, the functionality of alerts works differently in PVP due to the negative impact is has on other player builds and playstyles. However, PVP alerts still exist such as the ones Miats currently notifies you of regarding map state, they only removed the part about notifying people of incoming attacks and detecting people near you in stealth to allow for ambushes to still be a thing, as it was negatively impacting sneaky players. The same happened when they removed the ongoing buff visibility, it was negatively affecting Vampires and allowed players to see your build and procs.1 -
Erraln✭✭✭✭✭
Don't use Miat's,
Don't use Raid Notifier
so honest question about the latter
When running Wayrest Sewers 1 -- the final boss ambushes a 'random' (seemingly) target
then does a spin attack, the combination of which routinely kills squishy pugs if they fail to block at the teleport skill telegraph
does Raid Notifier tell the specific player she is about to teleport to that an attack is incoming and provide a countdown?
or does it only work on attacks that already have a clear telegraph in the fight
"interrupt now" on the First Mate's one-shot in Blackheart Haven would make perfect sense,
but have no idea what the add on actually does
Pledges are beneath RaidNotifier's notice, it's not universal.0