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@ZoS' management, team leads and developers: regarding Quality of Service and Bugs

coplannb16_ESO
coplannb16_ESO
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Reading the forums it is clear that the latest update had the same quality as other major updates had. ZoS keeps showing their failure of fixing bugs long know, fixing bugs reported by PTS testers and managing to not add new bugs with every single update.

Iam not here to bash on the developers. I believe they are working in a world of pain, working over hours until complete burnout without getting much support or gratification from their leadership.

So what is going on there? Iam software developer and software architect myself working on technical migration from old legacy systems (c/c++, visual basic and so on) to new ones (e.g. C# / Java, distributed systems...). I happen to encounter the same issues in my everyday work life. However in my world things are changing, or already have changed. The problem is the culture and mindset of a company (or mostly the upper and middle-management). They still believe that writing code / building software systems is like building a house or manufacturing a car, e.g. the same old every day which gets pipelined and can be measured by metrics like amount of manufactured cars versus time. E.g. throw more workers on a production line to speed up production or scale with more production lines / plants. In the mind of these people it works like this: if a woman needs 9 months to give birth to a child, 9 women should be able to do it in 1 months.
Software is different. Building a car is well understood, it is an easy task and can be easily separated in even easier sub-tasks (yet companies like GM manage to extremely suck at it while LEAN companies like Toyota produce more, at higher quality and with happier employees). See http://noop.nl/wp-content/uploads/Simple-vs--Complicated-vs--Complex-vs--Chaotic-2-pi.jpeg
Basically software-projects are mostly on the right and upper side on the chart. And stuff like that is well known for over 20 years.

You remember Microsoft from 10 years ago? Huge anti-agile company releasing a product maybe once every 2-3 years (Windows, Office, Visual Studio and so on). They were on the brink of self-destruction losing to Google and Amazon esp. in the cloud business. A new CEO took over after Steve Balmer and started a complete turnaround, a change of culture. Now, they are extremely successful, open for open source software and employing all kinds of agile practices (test-driven design, continues integration, continues delivery, devops...).
You know, using their cloud development services (team service + visual studio online) or any Azure-Cloud product they will know when you have an issue way before you know it and act accordingly. More so, if they release an update you wont notice! Maybe a function usually takes 10 milliseconds, it might take it 1 or 2 seconds suddenly for once call, and then you got an update without any downtime. Its modern development at its best. Release fast and often, fail fast (automatic unit testing before production) and succeed fast (release updates at least once every 3 weeks, = 1 sprint there).
Think of Netflix is another prime example. Imagine the press if Netflix ever had an outtage for 12 hours. Oh my god...

But back to ESO and ZoS. Most game companies somehow managed to lose the touch to the industry. You'd think that game development should be much more extreme, agile, experimental than industry business... well, probably not since EA, Activsion, Ubisoft and co bought every indi-dev studio out there...

anyway, for ZoS: PLEASE STOP DOING WHAT YOU ARE DOING AND HOW YOU ARE DOING IT.
-> stop pushing features/must-dos on your development teams!
-> stop setting hard timelines! (like 1 DLC every 3 months, 1 expansion per year). SORRY THAT IS ***
-> remove the direct influence of the middle and upper management from the development teams
-> management is supposed to give guidance and a strong vision. Example from MS again: what do we want to accomplish and focus on in the next 18 months (= 1 scenario or epic)
--> the teams product managers/owners then plan in more detail what should be done in a scope of about 6 months (= 1 season or goal)
--> management updates their scenario every 6 months, so every season, to make sure that this scenario is still on target (= is what customer wants the most and is still valid in terms of market, strategy and so on)
--> teams plan in 2 to 4 weeks sprints, e.g. features are what can be done in that timeframe, tasks are parts of this that can be done in 1-2 days.
--> the team pulls the work, it is not pushed onto the team. This means the team only accepts as much work as they can manage to deliver in quality in that timeframe
--> the team does not work on features if there are too many bugs in the system (Microsoft has 5 bugs per developer as red line)
--> developing and finishing a task also includes writing (lots) of automated unit tests (Microsoft has NO testers anymore, their VSO team alone moved from manual testing and automated ui testing with >30000 ui tests that never all worked and took days to run to > 70000 unit tests that are run every checkin in <7 minutes). If your architecture is not testable: make it testable, this is a design goal every project should follow
--> release often: do not drop the work of 3 months onto any system, be it live or PTS. the work of 3 weeks can be better tested, also remember: automatic tests > manual tests. Humans should not do the work a machine can do as well or better!
--> use feature toggles: e.g. deploy new features but only enable them for a few users first. Then if all goes well enable it for all. If things go wrong, disable it, fix it, reenable it
--> do not take your service down for anything. A resilient modern system works even if parts are down by reducing functionality, not by dissallowing it
--> listen to your developers and architects (hope you have some): let them do their work and do not tell them how to do their work. Tell em what to do next, what is the most important and then let em decide how to do it.
--> and once more: do not push timelines / deadlines on the team. It takes as long as it takes...

Wre rather wait a month longer than test your *** code.
max level: mDK, stamBlade, stamSorc, magPlar, mDen, stamDen, magBlade, stamCro
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Stop the grind! Get rid of stupid events and daily-quest gallore. Get rid of "have a chance of 1 in a million to get a piece of 1 in 30 to get a stupid motif or pet... wtf..."
And at this point just remove all classes and have everyone choose their set of skills. then balance accordingly to skills always used vs. skills never used.
  • Turelus
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    As much as I understand where you're coming from and what you're trying to say, you're also making a lot of assumptions.

    We don't really know how the inner workings of ZOS tick and it's probably a little patronising to lecture people on how to run their business if you've not worked within it.

    This may not be a developer bashing thread as you've stated, but it's basically a championing for the little guy bash the management thread without understanding if that's actually the issue which caused this. I've never seen or heard from a ZOS staff member who's complained about the way the company treats them or the workloads they have though.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • I_killed_Vivec
    I_killed_Vivec
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    Sounds like somebody has just been introduced to some Microsoft guide to agile development...

    Whatever our thoughts might be about the professionalism of ZoS (and from time to time I have commented on their apparent lack of basic testing and difficulty with configuration control...), I doubt that they are unaware of modern software development methodologies. You don't get to develop something like ESO if your business can be transformed by a page of suggestions from someone who has no visibility of the code, the working practices or the management activities of ZoS.

    And maybe it's not best to put forward MS (or Apple) as a paragon of programming virtue in the light of Spectre and Meltdown patches.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    --> and once more: do not push timelines / deadlines on the team. It takes as long as it takes...

    ROFLMAO... Tell that to an employee waiting for his paycheck at the end of the month... "It's not there yet, it takes as long as it takes"... Said paycheck being the result of the work (not the actual hours, but the result of the work) of the employee, the snake bites its own tail again.
    There's no such thing as "it takes as long as it takes" (except for non-life-sustaining activities).
    And it's not our system, it's a general rule : even the first humanbeing on Earth had to eat on a daily basis, and go hunting, fishing and farming for it. With, LITERALLY, a DEADline.

    People will not sub without some kind of trust in the scheduled and announced release of new content. That trust was broken back in 2015 and it caused a pure disaster. Took a long time to recover.
    They also have investors for whom revenues and interests must be paid ON TIME. Not "when it's there, because it takes as long as it takes".

    You seem to be fairly competent in software development processes, but a company as a whole has other contradicting issues and constraints. The pressure is there.

    That being said, a bad manager will pass the pressure onto his teams, whereas a good manager will take it upon himself and deal with it in order to protect his teams.
    And yes ZOS seems to have management issues, but I wouldn't go as far as diagnosing them since I, like you and all of us, lack the most basic information for such diagnostics.


    Turelus wrote: »
    I've never seen or heard from a ZOS staff member who's complained about the way the company treats them or the workloads they have though.

    There are. You can find them in dedicated "whatever-Leaks" sites where employees testify anonymously about their experience in their current or former companies. But it doesn't mean much since no company can make everyone happy and the whole thing is highly subjective - if not sometimes entirely driven by personal resentment.

    Edited by anitajoneb17_ESO on February 13, 2018 11:36AM
  • Azurya
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    I think that OP @coplannb16_ESO should be part of ZOS

    and wish him much upwind when he gets there

    @ZOS_GinaBruno

  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Turelus wrote: »
    I've never seen or heard from a ZOS staff member who's complained about the way the company treats them or the workloads they have though.

    There are. You can find them in dedicated "whatever-Leaks" sites where employees testify anonymously about their experience in their current or former companies. But it doesn't mean much since no company can make everyone happy and the whole thing is highly subjective - if not sometimes entirely driven by personal resentment.
    Yeah. I mean there are probably glass door reviews or whatever, but I haven't heard of ZOS having a horrible culture or being a bad place to work, from my understanding working within the Zenimax group is pretty awesome.

    As a contrast I have heard multiple times how another MMO company is horrible to work for, they do have many bad reviews on sites and disgruntled devs have spoken out. I am not going to say everything is sunshine and rainbows at ZOS but I think if the devs were so badly treated as OP seems to believe we would hear more about it.

    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Kanar
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    Probably more important than everything in OP is for zos to stop hiring contractors. They ruin every software project they touch.
  • Prof_Bawbag
    Prof_Bawbag
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    To be fair, the game is massive and just because bugs get reported during pts, doesn't mean they will get fixed due to the deadlines being put down by Zenimax Media/Bethesda. Also, who's to say fixing bug 'X' doesn't cause a bug 'Y' that has a more detrimental effect on the game? This goes for people who regularly shite on testers too. You'll find alot of the bug which remain have been reported, but the fixes weren't implemented for a variety of reasons. None of them down to the testers. Then there's the biggie, no amount of small scale testing/in house testing will ever pick up the same amount of bugs/glitches as a million or so people playing the game. Waaaaay too many differentials in play.

    Edited by Prof_Bawbag on February 13, 2018 1:03PM
  • knaveofengland
    knaveofengland
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    i understand what you are saying , but there is more to it than you can think of , for the shareholders they invest so they need a return , you can sometimes tell what direction they are going by simply doing a credit check , if they making wads of cash then its simply bugs taking time to iron out , if its cash then you see more money making schemes .

    i would point out being a alpha tester on most of total war series including arena , beta on quite few others including eso , fixing some bugs , are very hard to fix , and sometimes they have to make a trade off , even to a point they have to scrap some of it and start over ,this can take a very long time .

    we all get frustrated with the extreme maintence and bugs , but think we need to show them and hopefully over time they fix them .

    wish you all well
  • logarifmik
    logarifmik
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    @ZOS, hire this guy for your own good. Absolutely endorse "do not push timelines" part, slower is better when it comes to creation.
    EU PC: @logarifmik | Languages: Русский, English
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  • reiverx
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    In my 30+ years of software development I've only been in one situation where the devs were treated badly by management. Generally, IT is a fantastic place to be.

    I think a lot of people forget that devs do not make business decisions. We work from instructions. I've never been in a situation where I decided the direction of the company although I am usually the one in the trenches when it comes to user satisfaction. I once got a whole lot of flak for changing the shade of a font which was, you know, part of the requirements given to me.

    ESO has made a commitment to give subscribers something every quarter. And they have. However, it would be nice to see the smaller changes going in more frequently instead of throwing in everything at once. That is old-school and prone to all sorts of issues.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
    anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Yeah. I mean there are probably glass door reviews or whatever, but I haven't heard of ZOS having a horrible culture or being a bad place to work, from my understanding working within the Zenimax group is pretty awesome.

    I doubt that very much. You'll understand that it is better to not discuss this here in details - and it's pure intuition from me, built up over the years from the many interactions between us and ZOS in the various media (here + game + social media + eso live, etc. )

  • idk
    idk
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    I can understand OP being upset, but it is not realistic or reasonable to think that Zos could find every bug in the game. Anyone who has spent time in MMORPGS (or even single player games) knows bugs happen and some bugs are never fixed.

    However, OP does come off a little disdainful and seems to lack understanding of software development.

    OP has also made huge assumptions and backed them up with unrelated commentary.

    Again, I understand anyone being upset about bugs, but the OP seems more like a self serving rant.
  • NyassaV
    NyassaV
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    ZoS need to put balance ahead of business
    Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand Overlord
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  • ak_pvp
    ak_pvp
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    Inb4 lock like the other thread.
    MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
    Best houseknight EU.
  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    --> developing and finishing a task also includes writing (lots) of automated unit tests (Microsoft has NO testers anymore, their VSO team alone moved from manual testing and automated ui testing with >30000 ui tests that never all worked and took days to run to > 70000 unit tests that are run every checkin in <7 minutes). If your architecture is not testable: make it testable, this is a design goal every project should follow

    I always wondered about this with dumb stuff like passive randomly turning off in a patch even though nothing seemingly related got changed. Does ZoS have any automated testing for damage calculations for new patches? Probably not.

    Good write up mate.
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  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    idk wrote: »
    I can understand OP being upset, but it is not realistic or reasonable to think that Zos could find every bug in the game. Anyone who has spent time in MMORPGS (or even single player games) knows bugs happen and some bugs are never fixed.

    However, OP does come off a little disdainful and seems to lack understanding of software development.

    OP has also made huge assumptions and backed them up with unrelated commentary.

    Again, I understand anyone being upset about bugs, but the OP seems more like a self serving rant.

    Your same criticisms of OP also applies to your own.
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  • ecru
    ecru
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    nice post, but nothing is going to stop hard headed, overconfident business majors from ruining things you like through their misunderstanding of development processes.
    Gryphon Heart
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  • UppGRAYxDD
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    so just to be clear, last patch the main trial content was glitched(which still has glitches). Now they are having issues with the current patch with an experience glitch in IC. ZoS's fix: ban all who exploited the glitches. IDK who is in charge of quality control or actual testing, but they need to have their performance evaluated and/or need to be replaced or reinforced. This is becoming a common occurrence with every new dlc release or patch release and dont give me the "well its an MMORPG, its gonna have glitches" excuse. ZoS is a business and in any other business when monumental screw ups happen, someones head rolls. Take out the budget to hire extra testers prior to content release, or hey why not just employ some of the gamers who find these glitches? We seem to find them immediately...
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • Turelus
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    UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
    so just to be clear, last patch the main trial content was glitched(which still has glitches). Now they are having issues with the current patch with an experience glitch in IC. ZoS's fix: ban all who exploited the glitches. IDK who is in charge of quality control or actual testing, but they need to have their performance evaluated and/or need to be replaced or reinforced. This is becoming a common occurrence with every new dlc release or patch release and dont give me the "well its an MMORPG, its gonna have glitches" excuse. ZoS is a business and in any other business when monumental screw ups happen, someones head rolls. Take out the budget to hire extra testers prior to content release, or hey why not just employ some of the gamers who find these glitches? We seem to find them immediately...
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
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  • UppGRAYxDD
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    Turelus wrote: »
    UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
    so just to be clear, last patch the main trial content was glitched(which still has glitches). Now they are having issues with the current patch with an experience glitch in IC. ZoS's fix: ban all who exploited the glitches. IDK who is in charge of quality control or actual testing, but they need to have their performance evaluated and/or need to be replaced or reinforced. This is becoming a common occurrence with every new dlc release or patch release and dont give me the "well its an MMORPG, its gonna have glitches" excuse. ZoS is a business and in any other business when monumental screw ups happen, someones head rolls. Take out the budget to hire extra testers prior to content release, or hey why not just employ some of the gamers who find these glitches? We seem to find them immediately...
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    Maybe they need to incorporate console player too on PTS? You can defend this till you are blue in the face, the fact that the track record for glitches and broken content speaks for itself. Its time for them to reevaluate their quality control and testing.
    "Stendarr's mercy be upon you, for the vigil has none to spare."
  • Meetre
    Meetre
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    I am almost positive "we" did, but it wasn't reported. I saw some discussion in a Discord group about going to IC to power level before the update was done. Before we had a chance to log in and find out it was live. Trusting players to beta test and report a bug that gives them an advantage has proven time and time again to not work. Seems almost every update there is something broken that some players know about and abuse.
  • anitajoneb17_ESO
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    I doubt anyone actually started farming Tel Var Stones or grinding XP in IC on PTS. It wasn't the actual purpose of this PTS session...

  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    I doubt anyone actually started farming Tel Var Stones or grinding XP in IC on PTS. It wasn't the actual purpose of this PTS session...
    Which begs the question would ZOS have also invested someone to test it.

    I mean saying ZOS should find everything like this is expecting ZOS to literally check every game mode, quest, mod etc. during a QA pass. That's thousands of hours of work which I very much doubt any company would be willing to pay for.

    I am not saying it's fine for issues to go live (especially those we do find and note) but for people to expect every single aspect of the game to be checked before every update is unrealistic.

    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
  • Kanar
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    I gotta post here again because I disagree with some things OP claims. The line about c/c++ "old legacy systems" is a joke. Sorry but c# is garbage and Java barely better; on any system where performance is a concern it should really be c/c++ especially for client.

    The thing about timelines is flat out false. Agile fully accepts deadlines. In agile you have Scope, Capacity, and Timeline. The rule is that only TWO can be fixed; it's ok to have fixed timeline if scope is flexible. It's totally reasonable to have a target of 3 external releases per year in agile. Internally, every sprint is a release.

    Features do not have to be done in a Sprint. That's what a release is for, and release planning is a thing. A feature is groomed for a release and broken into stories and then the decision is made whether it fits or not. If you ever worked on a large project you would be familiar with this process.

    And this line is misleading: "It takes as long as it takes..." It's only true in the sense that if feature estimates are way off and the devs need more time then yeah they need it, but in no case are teams just given a blank check to take as long as they want. A competent feature lead with knowledge of the codebase should be able to make accurate estimates so the business knows how long it will take.
  • idk
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    Taylor_MB wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I can understand OP being upset, but it is not realistic or reasonable to think that Zos could find every bug in the game. Anyone who has spent time in MMORPGS (or even single player games) knows bugs happen and some bugs are never fixed.

    However, OP does come off a little disdainful and seems to lack understanding of software development.

    OP has also made huge assumptions and backed them up with unrelated commentary.

    Again, I understand anyone being upset about bugs, but the OP seems more like a self serving rant.

    Your same criticisms of OP also applies to your own.

    @Taylor_MB

    Not really. I can see someone using that as an excuse with nothing to add but my comment is based on experience with multiple MMORPGs as well as single player games.

    OP also makes comments he would have no clue about like the workplace environment at Zos. It is irrelevant how his workplace is when it comes to speaking about Zos.

    The OP is merely a long rage rant full of assumptions.
  • Taylor_MB
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    idk wrote: »
    Taylor_MB wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I can understand OP being upset, but it is not realistic or reasonable to think that Zos could find every bug in the game. Anyone who has spent time in MMORPGS (or even single player games) knows bugs happen and some bugs are never fixed.

    However, OP does come off a little disdainful and seems to lack understanding of software development.

    OP has also made huge assumptions and backed them up with unrelated commentary.

    Again, I understand anyone being upset about bugs, but the OP seems more like a self serving rant.

    Your same criticisms of OP also applies to your own.

    @Taylor_MB

    Not really. I can see someone using that as an excuse with nothing to add but my comment is based on experience with multiple MMORPGs as well as single player games.

    OP also makes comments he would have no clue about like the workplace environment at Zos. It is irrelevant how his workplace is when it comes to speaking about Zos.

    The OP is merely a long rage rant full of assumptions.

    So your comment based on subjective and biased experience with MMO's is all good, but OP based on subjective and bias experience in the industry is not good?

    Both of you provided opinion, him on ZoS you on his emotions and motive, with no evidence. If you don't see how your comment is equally as unfounded as some of his more speculative points then.... *shrug*.
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  • Taylor_MB
    Taylor_MB
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    Turelus wrote: »
    UppGRAYxDD wrote: »
    so just to be clear, last patch the main trial content was glitched(which still has glitches). Now they are having issues with the current patch with an experience glitch in IC. ZoS's fix: ban all who exploited the glitches. IDK who is in charge of quality control or actual testing, but they need to have their performance evaluated and/or need to be replaced or reinforced. This is becoming a common occurrence with every new dlc release or patch release and dont give me the "well its an MMORPG, its gonna have glitches" excuse. ZoS is a business and in any other business when monumental screw ups happen, someones head rolls. Take out the budget to hire extra testers prior to content release, or hey why not just employ some of the gamers who find these glitches? We seem to find them immediately...
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    That's because the XP bug wasn't on the PTS. They never tested the live release on PTS because.... reasons. They do it with every patch, there are always things we see on live that were never tested on PTS.

    Edited by Taylor_MB on February 13, 2018 5:25PM
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    LagPlar Ranged Lag Proof(ish) Magplar
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  • Thogard
    Thogard
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    I’ve never played an MMO where every new patch consistently breaks more things than it fixes.
    PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo

    Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
    YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp


  • Kanar
    Kanar
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    Turelus wrote: »
    Turelus wrote: »
    Yet we didn't find the XP glitch on PTS did we...

    I doubt anyone actually started farming Tel Var Stones or grinding XP in IC on PTS. It wasn't the actual purpose of this PTS session...
    Which begs the question would ZOS have also invested someone to test it.

    I mean saying ZOS should find everything like this is expecting ZOS to literally check every game mode, quest, mod etc. during a QA pass. That's thousands of hours of work which I very much doubt any company would be willing to pay for.

    I am not saying it's fine for issues to go live (especially those we do find and note) but for people to expect every single aspect of the game to be checked before every update is unrealistic.

    That's what impact analysis is for. When making a change the dev and qse go through impact analysis to determine the testing scope. If there was some tweak to xp that impacted every zone then it would certainly not take thousands of hours just to go to each zone, kill a couple monsters and verify the result vs expected.

    Zos may have a poorly defined defined process or more likely devs that don't fully understand the impact of their changes (contractors or new to the project).

    Edit: also as already shown by the forum post, zos testing team is understaffed. So to meet sprint deadline testing is probably skimped either deliberately or unconsciously (devs and qse have a pressure to minimize the impact in their analysis).
    Edited by Kanar on February 13, 2018 5:31PM
  • idk
    idk
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    Taylor_MB wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    Taylor_MB wrote: »
    idk wrote: »
    I can understand OP being upset, but it is not realistic or reasonable to think that Zos could find every bug in the game. Anyone who has spent time in MMORPGS (or even single player games) knows bugs happen and some bugs are never fixed.

    However, OP does come off a little disdainful and seems to lack understanding of software development.

    OP has also made huge assumptions and backed them up with unrelated commentary.

    Again, I understand anyone being upset about bugs, but the OP seems more like a self serving rant.

    Your same criticisms of OP also applies to your own.

    @Taylor_MB

    Not really. I can see someone using that as an excuse with nothing to add but my comment is based on experience with multiple MMORPGs as well as single player games.

    OP also makes comments he would have no clue about like the workplace environment at Zos. It is irrelevant how his workplace is when it comes to speaking about Zos.

    The OP is merely a long rage rant full of assumptions.

    So your comment based on subjective and biased experience with MMO's is all good, but OP based on subjective and bias experience in the industry is not good?

    Both of you provided opinion, him on ZoS you on his emotions and motive, with no evidence. If you don't see how your comment is equally as unfounded as some of his more speculative points then.... *shrug*.

    Big stretch to call my objective thoughts on this industry based on what I have seen subjective (and seems manufactured and false to call it biased to suite your opinion).

    Also, OP has merely guessed at how the workplace at Zos might be based on information that has no relation to Zos. That is an extremely weak and clearly biased opinion he provides. A rational view upon the OP and it's supposed supporting information would clearly see that.

    Rage rants generally lack logic since it often comes from emotion. I can also state from my experience building IT systems from databases and virtual networks to actual physical layers for networks that OP's points are not the standard. The two workplaces I have dealt with the environment OP speaks of were not as he says his has been. Heck, some of the most relaxed environments I have seen in all my decades.

    Granted, you are entitled to your own thoughts and opinions, but I suggest actually base them on something instead of trying to belittle someone else with made up reasoning.
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