Would "hiding the numbers" resolve a lot of complaining in MMOs like ESO?

Knowledge · February 2018

This is just a wild idea and it seems like it could resolve some of the complaining in an MMORPG. Going by the saying, " What you don't know can't hurt you " and the fact that the majority of the people in MMOs, namely casual players, want to play their way, without a meta. They'd much rather make a fun unique build and not be shamed for it by the elites in the community than follow the cookie-cutter line of thinking.

Problems this solves

Anger over nerfs.
Anger over buffs.
Community acceptance regardless of the way you play
Preventing toxic environments and elitism

The big hurdle is how would this be done? Imagine if the boss HP bar had no numbers or percentages. It just gradually went down. There would be no log regarding how much damage someone did or healed for. Gear would be labeled without numbers in a manner such as "Improves magicka recovery slightly, " " Improves magicka recovery greatly, " " When hit you regenerate HP. This can only occur sometimes."

AzraelKrieg · February 2018

If the numbers were removed it wouldn't change a thing. Because instead of using an amount of damage dealt, the meta would be made up of those that can reduce that boss' health bar the quickest still.

Tasear · February 2018

Nah most people would not like.

Knowledge · February 2018

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

If the numbers were removed it wouldn't change a thing. Because instead of using an amount of damage dealt, the meta would be made up of those that can reduce that boss' health bar the quickest still.

Then you will have no boss HP bar at all. There are a few single player games that have done this. Shuffle in mechanics and there would be time variations involved with how long each pull was taking especially on harder difficulty encounters where it mattered. It would be much harder to zero in on specifics.

Taylor_MB · February 2018

With a forum name like that, OP has to be being sarcastic, right?

jedtb16_ESO · February 2018

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

If the numbers were removed it wouldn't change a thing. Because instead of using an amount of damage dealt, the meta would be made up of those that can reduce that boss' health bar the quickest still.

^this....

plus any nerfs/buffs would still be noticeable and still generate the same amount of hot air...

essi2 · February 2018

It would make the game more frustrating and less of an RPG.

Pendrillion · February 2018

You know its not too long since ESO introduced the numbers... *facepalm* People used to use addons for them...

Knowledge · February 2018

essi2 wrote: »

It would make the game more frustrating and less of an RPG.

Why would it make it less of an RPG? There are RPGs that aren't very distinct with damage modifiers or damage output like Mass Effect and quite a few others.

JmJ · February 2018

I dont think most ppl have any problems about players who want to play game with theyr unique build's. Its only comes problem when those ppl expect to carried trough dungeon's. For example dd is queing to vBF with 5k dps with he's/her's fancy unique build thing's most likely will go wrong.

LadyNalcarya · February 2018

I have another idea: lets remove all combat from the game, because some people dont like it.
We also need to remove chat... You know, there are scammers, harassers and trolls

Costumes. motifs and fancy mounts should be removed as well. Some people have terrible sense of fashion and it alienates people who dont want to spend real money on mounts and outfits.
Genders and races should be removed from character creation screen. Why not to use a gender- and race-neutral template instead? This way we will surely get rid of racism and sexism.

Knowledge · February 2018

JmJ wrote: »

I dont think most ppl have any problems about players who want to play game with theyr unique build's. Its only comes problem when those ppl expect to carried trough dungeon's. For example dd is queing to vBF with 5k dps with he's/her's fancy unique build thing's most likely will go wrong.

Yes but now you wouldn't know if they were being carried. You would just be happy in your own little world killing the boss.

Marabornwingrion · February 2018

Terrible idea.

Knowledge · February 2018

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

I have another idea: lets remove all combat from the game, because some people dont like it.
We also need to remove chat... You know, there are scammers, harassers and trolls
Costumes. motifs and fancy mounts should be removed as well. Some people have terrible sense of fashion and it alienates people who dont want to spend real money on mounts and outfits.
Genders and races should be removed from character creation screen. Why not to use a gender- and race-neutral template instead? This way we will surely get rid of racism and sexism.

I agree with some of your points but I do feel that you are being a bit extreme with some of them. Turning the chat off is technically optional. You can ignore it or do things to make it less visible. As for alienating the players with poor fashion you could have a lore-only option that presented all races encountered with their race specific motif only for immersive purposes.

Removing genders is a bit extreme and we should let people choose their own genders.

Kendaric · February 2018

essi2 wrote: »

It would make the game more frustrating and less of an RPG.

Why would it make the game feel less like a RPG?

I'd say it would feel more like an RPG than it does now. Or do you know how much health that dragon/undead/orc/whatever has in a PnP RPG (unless you're the GM of course)?

Knowledge · February 2018

Kendaric wrote: »

essi2 wrote: »

It would make the game more frustrating and less of an RPG.

Why would it make the game feel less like a RPG?

I'd say it would feel more like an RPG than it does now. Or do you know how much health that dragon/undead/orc/whatever has in a PnP RPG (unless you're the GM of course)?

This is my thought precisely. When you're fighting a great big dragon how would you know how many sword swings it will require to kill? Or how many of your magic spells you must use before he is mortally wounded?

Perhaps you could get an idea based on how he was reacting or looked but it would be far more immersive if you just had no idea.

JmJ · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

I dont think most ppl have any problems about players who want to play game with theyr unique build's. Its only comes problem when those ppl expect to carried trough dungeon's. For example dd is queing to vBF with 5k dps with he's/her's fancy unique build thing's most likely will go wrong.

Yes but now you wouldn't know if they were being carried. You would just be happy in your own little world killing the boss.

I think we would still know. How fast boss is dying, do we need to se much more mechanic's than "normaly". And finaly ppl would still see what other person is doing, if they see destruction staff paired with bow that might raise some suspicious. So i dont really see anyway how this could even be possible.

Knowledge · February 2018

JmJ wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

JmJ wrote: »

I dont think most ppl have any problems about players who want to play game with theyr unique build's. Its only comes problem when those ppl expect to carried trough dungeon's. For example dd is queing to vBF with 5k dps with he's/her's fancy unique build thing's most likely will go wrong.

Yes but now you wouldn't know if they were being carried. You would just be happy in your own little world killing the boss.

I think we would still know. How fast boss is dying, do we need to se muck more mechanic's than "normaly". And finaly ppl would still see what other person is doing, if they see destruction staff paired with bow that might raise some suspicious. So i dont really see anyway how this could even be possible.

Well, remember. Removing the numbers would also remove CP and make things a bit more interesting. Also, imagine if the boss had a lower or higher hidden HP each time you encountered it and that instance was saved to you. However, this would be hidden in the background only to prevent you from ascertaining what weapons and armor decreased the time it took to kill it. It would ensure the time frame was always different.

Lets not forget random and unaccounted for crit modifiers which would be based on hidden RNG rolls. You might have 30% crit rate or 5% crit rate but would have no idea. How often the critical hits occurred would be unknown to you at all times adding even more uncertainty to the TTK or Time To Kill.

Princess_Ciri · February 2018

do u not remember the times of the bloodspawn dps test? people find ways to measure dps no matter what

This idea is awful, ESO tooltips are usually incorrect anyway and often game info is misleading so we're not that far from what you want atm anyway.

Jhalin · February 2018

What are you smoking and can you share it with the rest of us?

Undefwun · February 2018

You know those guys that specifically go for world firsts and just love theory crafting in general...? That'll be just a challenge to them... There will be build/completion videos... might take a bit longer, but they will come.

Why can't ppl just be a peace with the fact that in games like these you some of us WILL NOT be able to do ALL the content.

Just because alot of the new players have grown up in a society that hands out participation ribbons for just showing up doesn't mean that should be catered for. And before the "I pay, I am entitled to" responses come up. No you're not. Their game, you pay for the right to play it.

I am right down the middle some where. I play enough to not be casual, but I am not ripping through dps parses, but I've done all N and V dungeons and all but one trial on normal, some on vet. I pvp and love it, big reason why I play (and I sub), but i am delightfully average.

There is a lot of ppl playing. The tone is totally different in some of my guilds. One has alot of what I would call power players and another is so much more casual about content. Find players that go at your pace.

Any game that patches content will draw complaints. Ppl love to complain, especially if something that affects their play. I dislike certain play styles and certain abilities, but that's a challenge for me. My DPS doesn't meet someone's requirements, fine I'll go practice or find others to play with.

TL;DR less info won't stop power players, any community will have people with other opinions and it will have a toxic component.

Varana · February 2018

I absolutely hate it when video games don't tell me what's going on. "Buffs X slightly" - what's that even supposed to mean? Is spending "a few gold" worth it to improve "slightly", or should I spend "some" skill points? How many "fews" can I afford if I have "kinda lot" of things?

Without precise information, you cannot make informed decisions. That is only acceptable if there are no decisions to make - like your health in point-and-click adventures, or something like that.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2018

I don’t think I would like that. I don’t think a whole lot of people would like that. Seems like a lot of effort to go through for not much gain.

And some of the things on your list would not be prevented, Unless they also didn’t release patch notes. Which I just think would lead to more anger.

Runefang · February 2018

Terrible idea. I would still know the boss is taking 10 minutes longer to kill than last time.

Truth is, if I ever played a game where I didn't know if I was doing well I'd stop immediately.

Knowledge · February 2018

Jhalin wrote: »

What are you smoking and can you share it with the rest of us?

I just don't think you're seeing the whole picture. This isn't really as far fetched as you think. Just imagine you and your group of adventurers come upon a large dragon. He is mean and looks menacing. The dragon even says something to you to frighten you and your comrades along the lines of "Your end is all but assured."

You now have to do battle with this great big dragon. You're fighting him with your swords, your magic spells, and you don't know if you're wounding him but your comrades may have fallen once or twice forcing you to raise them with soul gems. You continue on into the encounter doing everything you can to bring him down without one bit of information telling you when the encounter will end, how much he is wounded, or anything of the such. You'd be so immersed with this dragon battle that you would be excited and possibly perspiring as you and your friends in battle finally bring him down.

Knowledge · February 2018

Varana wrote: »

I absolutely hate it when video games don't tell me what's going on. "Buffs X slightly" - what's that even supposed to mean? Is spending "a few gold" worth it to improve "slightly", or should I spend "some" skill points? How many "fews" can I afford if I have "kinda lot" of things?

Without precise information, you cannot make informed decisions. That is only acceptable if there are no decisions to make - like your health in point-and-click adventures, or something like that.

Imagine if the NPC would offer some direction to you a little bit even immersing you further. You might have chat options to inquire with him about the strength of the armor you wish to use. " How much magicka will I regenerate? " perhaps he will respond with something akin to " A great deal perhaps enough to face the great dragon in the temple of the dragon lords."

Feanor · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

What are you smoking and can you share it with the rest of us?

I just don't think you're seeing the whole picture. This isn't really as far fetched as you think. Just imagine you and your group of adventurers come upon a large dragon. He is mean and looks menacing. The dragon even says something to you to frighten you and your comrades along the lines of "Your end is all but assured."

You now have to do battle with this great big dragon. You're fighting him with your swords, your magic spells, and you don't know if you're wounding him but your comrades may have fallen once or twice forcing you to raise them with soul gems. You continue on into the encounter doing everything you can to bring him down without one bit of information telling you when the encounter will end, how much he is wounded, or anything of the such. You'd be so immersed with this dragon battle that you would be excited and possibly perspiring as you and your friends in battle finally bring him down.

I can only talk for me but I don’t find a 5 hours slog fest through Wayrest Sewers “exciting” just because my teammates like to role play.

jimijac0me · February 2018

Well, once upon a time this was a vison for a previous dev team, and then the forums and development of a game happened and...

Addons - specifically the sort that didn’t allow group dps etc were frowned upon by the original devs, and then the game moved forward, dev team changed and here we are, better or worse is up to the community but the many have a voice

We have what we have because WE ASKED for it

Knowledge · February 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

What are you smoking and can you share it with the rest of us?

I just don't think you're seeing the whole picture. This isn't really as far fetched as you think. Just imagine you and your group of adventurers come upon a large dragon. He is mean and looks menacing. The dragon even says something to you to frighten you and your comrades along the lines of "Your end is all but assured."

You now have to do battle with this great big dragon. You're fighting him with your swords, your magic spells, and you don't know if you're wounding him but your comrades may have fallen once or twice forcing you to raise them with soul gems. You continue on into the encounter doing everything you can to bring him down without one bit of information telling you when the encounter will end, how much he is wounded, or anything of the such. You'd be so immersed with this dragon battle that you would be excited and possibly perspiring as you and your friends in battle finally bring him down.

I can only talk for me but I don’t find a 5 hours slog fest through Wayrest Sewers “exciting” just because my teammates like to role play.

I think it's something you think you don't or won't like but you actually will. You'll really feel like a warrior in a fantasy battle fighting your way through a demon infested dungeon.

vyndral13preub18_ESO · February 2018

jimijac0me wrote: »

Well, once upon a time this was a vison for a previous dev team, and then the forums and development of a game happened and...

Addons - specifically the sort that didn’t allow group dps etc were frowned upon by the original devs, and then the game moved forward, dev team changed and here we are, better or worse is up to the community but the many have a voice We have what we have because WE ASKED for it

True. And it didn’t help that they couldn’t fix animation canceling. If you are suppose to take your hints from displays and graphical queues, the whole thing is busted if those never show.

Feanor · February 2018

Knowledge wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Knowledge wrote: »

Jhalin wrote: »

What are you smoking and can you share it with the rest of us?

I just don't think you're seeing the whole picture. This isn't really as far fetched as you think. Just imagine you and your group of adventurers come upon a large dragon. He is mean and looks menacing. The dragon even says something to you to frighten you and your comrades along the lines of "Your end is all but assured."

You now have to do battle with this great big dragon. You're fighting him with your swords, your magic spells, and you don't know if you're wounding him but your comrades may have fallen once or twice forcing you to raise them with soul gems. You continue on into the encounter doing everything you can to bring him down without one bit of information telling you when the encounter will end, how much he is wounded, or anything of the such. You'd be so immersed with this dragon battle that you would be excited and possibly perspiring as you and your friends in battle finally bring him down.

I can only talk for me but I don’t find a 5 hours slog fest through Wayrest Sewers “exciting” just because my teammates like to role play.

I think it's something you think you don't or won't like but you actually will. You'll really feel like a warrior in a fantasy battle fighting your way through a demon infested dungeon.

Hiding numbers won’t magically make all the bad players better.