Waffennacht wrote: »

How can anyone be sad about PvE dps when Magden is out there is beyond me

Oh we're not talking about magWarden, yet, but I promise I will But since magDK is not very far behind from magWarden and the trash can, I think it's time to talk about them first, especially for these new changes.

KingExecration wrote: »

Mag dk + power lash + update 17 = reroll
Been loving how nice other classes are than playing an armadillo with no armor. #Whatsadragonknight

well i guess we have our answer? Thanks buddy

krathos wrote: »

... just block the power lash... you know it's coming. it's the most predictable *** in the game.

you deserve some cookies my friend

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

By any means, you are right about the nerf for PvE. Something must change for that Part.

But can someone honestly tell me why a *** strong single target ability, that is connected with a strong heal, has to be undodgeable? And don't say "because of birds". Them being undodgeable is equaly inconsistent and a Bad idea to begin with.

Because Flame Lash is ALREADY DODGEABLE.

As long as you dodge the first Flame Lash after being CC’d, you’ll completely prevent Power Lash from proccing.

This has been the counterplay of Flame Lash + Power Lash proc for years and it should not change on the whim of a developer who likes to make mind-numbing amounts of changes to entire mechanics (such as Off-Balance, which is why they nerfed Power Lash this patch in the first place).

The cooldown, I can understand.

But the proc of POWER LASH ITSELF SHOULD NOT BE DODGEABLE BECAUSE IT’S A CONDITIONAL PROC FROM AN ALREADY DODGEABLE ATTACK (FLAME LASH) SO IT ALREADY HAD PLENTY OF COUNTERPLAY

Yeah, even I've never actually realized that. Well said.

KaiserKnight wrote: »

1) Make powerlash undodgeable again

I think i could live with the change if they made it so that powerlash only goes on cooldown if it deals damage (if dodged, no cooldown).

That would solve the problem of "too many powerlashes in a row" without gutting the ability.

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

The current 5s cd is not for powerlash, its for the ability to off balance enemies that are rooted or stunned. Sure, this change doesnt do too much in pvp when it comes to the generic magicka dk build using talons/fossilize to proc powerlash, but it completely kills the purpose of using lightning staff or shattering rocks. Powerlash used to be one of those skills that let you build around them to gain unique benefits just like the old battle roar, old siphoning strikes. What is being hurt by this change is build diversity. Patch after patch zos has been removing mechanics that allow us to create different strong sensible builds - powerlash cd, no shuffle in heavy, frag cc removal, disconnection of skills/passives from max stat pools, but no one seems to care about that.

Exactly. They don't even give you the option anymore of using a very squishy Blockade of Storms build to get more damage output by proccing Power Lash more often and even if you did, the proc is now dodgeable so you're now PUNISHED for rooting player targets since OF COURSE they're going to dodgeroll when rooted.

You might as well save the weapon slot and skill slot for something more purposeful like a Restoration staff, now that there's a cooldown on when you can use Power Lash, which can be considered MagDK's only execute-like damage in the first place.

Feanor wrote: »

We get that you wanted to keep it that way when you could just talon or fossilize and have your free hits, especially against Magicka characters. The funny thing is everybody hates Cliff Racers but on the own class undodgeable hard hitting abilities are of course totally fine. But yeah, maybe Frags should be undodgeable too. It’s too easy to escape it.

I hate all undodgeable magicka BS, just like I hate undodgeable power lash.
This is ZOS bias at its finest.

A nerf to power lash but no nerfs for cliff racer and all the other crazy magicka abilities.

You can proc Power Lash twice now with one Fossilize afaik. So if it will be undodgeable again it would be a gigantic buff (especially against roll builds in PvP).

PvE mag Dk needs buffs tho.

Feanor wrote: »

We get that you wanted to keep it that way when you could just talon or fossilize and have your free hits, especially against Magicka characters. The funny thing is everybody hates Cliff Racers but on the own class undodgeable hard hitting abilities are of course totally fine. But yeah, maybe Frags should be undodgeable too. It’s too easy to escape it.

Right, that's rather funny. "Something else is cancer too, so leave my own cancer alone". I don't get this mentality. There is absolutely no reason for any unchanneled single target ability to be undodgeable. Proc or not, that shouldn't matter.

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

We get that you wanted to keep it that way when you could just talon or fossilize and have your free hits, especially against Magicka characters. The funny thing is everybody hates Cliff Racers but on the own class undodgeable hard hitting abilities are of course totally fine. But yeah, maybe Frags should be undodgeable too. It’s too easy to escape it.

Are you comparing a RANGED burst proc that happens nearly every other cast of a magicka ability (Crystal Fragments) AND a ranged undodgeable spammable ability (Dive), to a MELEE burst proc that has a 3 second cooldown (Flame Lash + Power Lash)?

Quit spamming Dragonknight threads with your Sorcerer crying please. It's off-topic and nobody wants to hear it.

And be careful with these forum taunts, or you'll aggro the devs and they'll nerf your previous Sorcerer.

Last time I checked this forum open to everyone's input. Do you just want a pat on the shoulder for now having to wait till that guys dodge is over? And are you completely ignoring that you are now able to get the double amount of PL off on opponents that are not build to dodge (builds that utilize shields or block), that you get better heals from it and how everything DKs do is undodgeable and blockcastable? Why don't we make one ability from every class go trough block? This crying is beyond me.

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

We get that you wanted to keep it that way when you could just talon or fossilize and have your free hits, especially against Magicka characters. The funny thing is everybody hates Cliff Racers but on the own class undodgeable hard hitting abilities are of course totally fine. But yeah, maybe Frags should be undodgeable too. It’s too easy to escape it.

Right, that's rather funny. "Something else is cancer too, so leave my own cancer alone". I don't get this mentality. There is absolutely no reason for any unchanneled single target ability to be undodgeable. Proc or not, that shouldn't matter.

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

We get that you wanted to keep it that way when you could just talon or fossilize and have your free hits, especially against Magicka characters. The funny thing is everybody hates Cliff Racers but on the own class undodgeable hard hitting abilities are of course totally fine. But yeah, maybe Frags should be undodgeable too. It’s too easy to escape it.

Are you comparing a RANGED burst proc that happens nearly every other cast of a magicka ability (Crystal Fragments) AND a ranged undodgeable spammable ability (Dive), to a MELEE burst proc that has a 3 second cooldown (Flame Lash + Power Lash)?

Quit spamming Dragonknight threads with your Sorcerer crying please. It's off-topic and nobody wants to hear it.

And be careful with these forum taunts, or you'll aggro the devs and they'll nerf your previous Sorcerer.

Last time I checked this forum open to everyone's input. Do you just want a pat on the shoulder for now having to wait till that guys dodge is over? And are you completely ignoring that you are now able to get the double amount of PL off on opponents that are not build to dodge (builds that utilize shields or block), that you get better heals from it and how everything DKs do is undodgeable and blockcastable? Why don't we make one ability from every class go trough block? This crying is beyond me.

You quite literally ignored all the comparisons I made with Feanor's inept post, and went off on a tangent about how some classes have trouble with another class. Yes? That's how MMOs work.

Except those classes which use shields and such have methods of DROPPING Dragonknight block (Rune Prison and friends). There is no shortage of counters to MagDK, including but not limited to simply having better mobility as well as ranged unreflectable damage (Curse, Force Shock, Endless Fury, Meteor, etc)

I don't even PLAY MagDK, I simply know a lot of very good PvPers who do and I have watched for over a year ZOS nerf half of everything that made their class unique and useful. I WANT other peoples' classes to be stronger, but this is a Dragoknight discussion. There is a Sorcerer discussion in another thread specifically about your C Frag stuff.

Don't piggyback on this discussion to promote another, it's unproductive.

DDuke wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

You can proc Power Lash twice now with one Fossilize afaik. So if it will be undodgeable again it would be a gigantic buff (especially against roll builds in PvP).

PvE mag Dk needs buffs tho.

You can only Power Lash twice if that person doesn't break free and dodge out of it for like 3 entire seconds (which won't happen if they're any good at all at the game) due to the 3 second forced cooldown of Power Lash now.

Hey genius,

The first Fossilize->Flame Lash procs Off Balance (5s duration) on target.

Flame Lash automatically changes to Power Lash when targeting Off Balanced enemies (when it's not on cooldown).

With 3s cooldown after first Power Lash, you can Power Lash twice before the Off Balance ends and you need to reapply it (conveniently lines up with when CC immunity ends). You can also at any point refresh the Off Balance with Talons (or any other root, seen people use even Frost Clench on PTS)->Whip.

There is no need for anyone to be CC'd/rooted in order to use the second Power Lash.

FlamingBeard wrote: »

I don't even PLAY MagDK

It's not like you hadn't made it obvious already. Please let people who actually play mDK discuss mDK, you don't seem to have full understanding of the class.

I know plenty about ZOS' least favorite child: the Dragonknight

Hypothetical situation: you've Fossilized someone, and you Flame Lash them to set them Off-Balance while they're still stunned and immobilized, then they CC break and dodgeroll as you attempt to Power Lash.

BAM 3 second cooldown, simply because the very mechanic that allows you to set someone Off-Balance now counter-intuitively inspires someone to dodge your Power Lash automatically, they don't even need to know it's coming because they'll be dodging anyway.

Now you have 1 Power Lash left, IF you can hit the target before the Off-Balance expires.

You could save the Power Lash, maybe? But then that still only gives you time to do one before you must set them Off-Balance again, no?

There were already a few pretty nice counters to Power Lash before it received the dodgeable status: Total Dark, Extended Ritual to remove Off-Balance or prevent it altogether by removing roots, Mass Hysteria to stop the DK's rotation and relieve pressure from onself and to go offensive in return, as well as Forward Momentum to prevent or Shuffle to remove roots, and more than I can't think of at the moment.

I get that your aim is for your own class to be balanced and not OP, but this specific Power Lash doesn't really achieve balance as much as it gets lowered in effectiveness against players who are already experienced in dealing with the proc. It brings down the player using it and makes countering it much less skill-based.

I can accept the 3 second cooldown but a skill that relies on mechanics for Off-Balance which inspire the target to dodgeroll are now working AGAINST Power Lash instead of synergizing with it.

Before, you were rewarded for sitting and blocking the Power Lash for a moment and then recovering and losing minmal stamina doing so, and punished for immediately dodgerolling and taking an unmitigated hit while also using more stamina. It was a risk vs reward playstyle and now it's been flipped completely 180 against the Dragonknight using it.

the question is: what gear should I use on my magWarden in PvP?

I suppose anything that boosts magic damage and spam CD and Shalks?^^

coplannb16_ESO wrote: »

the question is: what gear should I use on my magWarden in PvP?

I suppose anything that boosts magic damage and spam CD and Shalks?^^

Better run while you can, I feel the incoming angry magDK main coming for you

krathos wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

krathos wrote: »

... just block the power lash... you know it's coming. it's the most predictable *** in the game.

except it doesnt work like that. the dodge change is a nice change. the cooldown thing isn't.

So explain to me why it doesn't work like that? Because thats exactly how I counter it on every class I play for years now. It's super predictable and only happens once at a time in your typical build (and we shouldnt be balancing based on broken dueling builds). You know when it procs. You can literally tap block to counter it on any class.

if you're actually an experienced PvP player you should friggen now that such thing as ''simply tapping block'' , does not exist.

You either blockcast the crap out of people, or you don't touch block at all. and a medium armor build can't just stand there and hold block.

Actually its pretty clear that you never touched a medium armor build in your playtime, so I won't waste time here any longer.