The new DLC dungeons too long..

heaven13 · January 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

pauli133 wrote: »

Slick_007 wrote: »

the only reason people want shorter dungeons is so they can get their daily rewards faster. i think some longer dungeons are needed

No, that's not the only reason. The biggest reason for me, and quite a few others, is simple - I've got other things I'd like to do! Being in a dungeon for an hour or more is tedious, and often causes out-of-game stress. Half hour is about the max for things to stay fun, after that it's just a slog.

You got other things to do?

Do it on normal mode then for a fast easy half hour run to keep it fun. You'll still get the skill point on normal mode.

A lot of these DLC dungeons drop motif pages that only drop in vet (or technically can drop in normal but the chance is so small it's not worth mentioning) and only on the final boss.

Sure, you can buy them but, for example, Dreadhorn Chests are around 50k alone. Personally, I like to at least attempt to earn my items before I start paying for them. I buy a couple chapters here and there (like Dark Brotherhood pages: I earned all but 2 myself but when the pages did drop I kept getting repeats so I sold extras or traded for what I needed). Trying to find people that want to do them on vet though (and can) is not easy since a lot of people do what you suggest and just run them on normal. A lot of times in zone chat I see 'lfg vet pledges, normal DLC pledge' or something similar.

Elrond87 · January 2018

autumnsongbird wrote: »

Apparently ZoS believes longer is better. They do not comprehend that the last thing most people want is another way to long dungeon that lacks creativity in favor of length and lots of mobs. Meh. Won't buy.

yea its the girth that matters

DirkRavenclaw · January 2018

I find the longer the better. And please include Mechanicks that stop them from completing them solo. I find a Dungeon is a Groupactivity where, at the end, you will feel you did something different from the normal PVE/PVP stuff. Same as with Trials, did run AS in CWC twice, its too short for a Trial, i dont run it. We need dungeons that challenge us, especially in Vet, Endgamecontent and only 30 mins long, or 1 hour?

Carbonised · January 2018

The problem isn't necessarily length of dungeons, but I'm quite fed up with people insisting on skipping every non-boss in dungeons, to the extent that they will in some cases die multiple times to reset the trash mobs, or go to absurd lengths of stealthing/parkouring past mobs.

What's the point of placing the mobs there to begin with, if they can just be circumvented in various ways.

Either just get rid of all the trash mobs, or at least make them non-skippable. The current situation is just bad dungeon/game design.

Moglijuana · January 2018

Slick_007 wrote: »

as someone who was around when wow dungeons were 4hrs - for the first half, most of you probably wouldnt know what a long dungeon was even if it bit you on the ass.

lol so much this

Dr_Rektar · January 2018

redspecter23 wrote: »

ZOS thinks we want long dungeons. It's not what I want, but I'm sure some people will be happy. I like Fungal Grotto 1 and Spindleclutch. Those are the length I enjoy which is why I have about zero interest in any DLC dungeon at all. I'll probably play the new ones once each to knock it off the list and move back to my regular schedule.

For me hard and long dungeons are fun(

anitajoneb17_ESO · January 2018

How long are those new dungeons ? Longer than ICP ? Longer than Blackheart Haven ? Longer than Mazzatun ?

I also think most dungeons are too long - especially if they're made artificially long by tedious, boring groups of trash mobs. I'd wish for less trash and more bosses. Or simply less trash.

Mic1007 · January 2018

The best part? They make them super long, and then throw in a 20-minute speedrun, forcing you to skip all the mobs anyway.

Feanor · January 2018

To me it depends if the mob fights are actually fun. The worst thing is wading through trash mobs with artificially inflated health pools that just are damage sponges (hello vSO).

Mic1007 · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

To me it depends if the mob fights are actually fun. The worst thing is wading through trash mobs with artificially inflated health pools that just are damage sponges (hello vSO).

That’s every Vet Dungeon and Trial now.

Wing · January 2018

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

DeadlyRecluse · January 2018

Repetitive trash mob slogs don't add any real difficulty, but they do add time...

...which makes those of us who need to work a dungeon a bit to get the clear less likely to be able to do that. I have a kid, a wife, etc. Maybe I need 2-3 runs to clear a boss, but if it takes me 45 minutes to grind my way to that boss, how often am I going to give it a serious attempt?

I do like (as an example) the bloodroot forge trash pulls. There are some interesting mechanics coming out of nonboss monsters that take practice, which is cool. vICP, on the other hand, has so many trash pulls that are super easy, just time consuming.

kojou · January 2018

There are sometimes when I can spend more than 30 minutes on a dungeon, and others where I just have time to run a quick one.

What would be nice IMO, is if there was an option to just do boss fights. Make it so you don't get the achievements like No-Death and Speed Run when you choose that option, but you can do a quick run if you only need the pledge, or if you only want to work on Hard Mode mechanics and don't want to fight all the trash leading up to each boss. Its what we pretty much do now anyway... slot Rapid Maneuvers and run or sneak to the boss.

Bladerunner1 · January 2018

If there are too many trash mobs slowing you down, set aside one or two "BIS" skills and use more AOE. Even a Stamblade, which many have said has the lowest AOE damage output, can put out 35kdps per trash target in AOE fighting.

IwakuraLain42 · January 2018

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

I have to agree with you here: the dungeon team designs the DLC dungeons (all of them) only with endgame veteran player population in mind (with all the insane mechanics that most players simply can not play) and them add a dumbed down normal mode that give no meaningful rewards as an alibi for rest of the player population.

I understand that endgame players want to have new stuff as well but I think it's time that we get new veteran content that can be played by non-god players as well. Being forced to play the the same old dungeons gets old fast. Or if you think that normal DLC dungeons are what we are supposed to play then give us a reasonable chance to get loot like motifs or monster helms.

altemriel · January 2018

RouDeR wrote: »

I just completed the 2 new dungeons on VET , and I can say that they are too big with so many trash fights...
Expecialy the Fang Lair is even larger than Imperial City Prison ...
The mechanics are okeyish I guess and the Art is good. But for the love of God , don't make future dungeons so long ...

come on

! people complain for more challenging content, for longer/better/harder/.... dungeons, for blabla, so now we finally get some longer dungeons and again, someone is complaining for them being too long... ;D

Carbonised · January 2018

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

Ye. Monster helm drops on vet. Motif and style stones drop on vet, achievements are only vet, as well as the crapton of skins, costumes, helmets, personalities, pets, titles and dyes that drop only on vet.

For normal you get a pat on the back and nothing else.

Considering that ESO continues to have normal dungeon as a walk in the park, and vet DLC dungeons (newer ones) as headaching inducingly hard for the majority of players, and next to impossible in a PUG, this doesn't cease to annoy me.

Feanor · January 2018

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

I have to agree with you here: the dungeon team designs the DLC dungeons (all of them) only with endgame veteran player population in mind (with all the insane mechanics that most players simply can not play) and them add a dumbed down normal mode that give no meaningful rewards as an alibi for rest of the player population.

I understand that endgame players want to have new stuff as well but I think it's time that we get new veteran content that can be played by non-god players as well. Being forced to play the the same old dungeons gets old fast. Or if you think that normal DLC dungeons are what we are supposed to play then give us a reasonable chance to get loot like motifs or monster helms.

If that was done then the same happens that happened to trials: Everyone just farms the normal versions. And I don’t agree you need to be a very good (even god like) player to finish a veteran dungeon, not even the DLC ones.

RANKK7 · January 2018

I agree. Long and packed with trash mobs doesn't mean better and challenging, it means long and packed with trash mobs.

IwakuraLain42 · January 2018

Feanor wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

I have to agree with you here: the dungeon team designs the DLC dungeons (all of them) only with endgame veteran player population in mind (with all the insane mechanics that most players simply can not play) and them add a dumbed down normal mode that give no meaningful rewards as an alibi for rest of the player population.

I understand that endgame players want to have new stuff as well but I think it's time that we get new veteran content that can be played by non-god players as well. Being forced to play the the same old dungeons gets old fast. Or if you think that normal DLC dungeons are what we are supposed to play then give us a reasonable chance to get loot like motifs or monster helms.

If that was done then the same happens that happened to trials: Everyone just farms the normal versions. And I don’t agree you need to be a very good (even god like) player to finish a veteran dungeon, not even the DLC ones.

And what would be so bad about it ? It would give more players a chance to get the monster helmets and it would finally bring down the prices for DLC motifs to normal regions.

Also yes, you need to be a very good player for the veteran DLC dungeons, esp. with all the mechanics that give you 1-2 seconds to react or you are dead or all the direct and indirect DPS races in them.

SinNoAria · January 2018

I feel like longer dungeons kind of kill the fun of the game. Yes, longer content is nice (Trials and DSA) at times, but not when you are doing random queue. Unless you want us to do random queues only with a premade of 3-4. Which kind of kills the point of random queues anyways.

Maybe if there was a separate option for Random Any, Random non-DLC, Random DLC.

In all honesty, players are just going to skip most of the non-boss content anyways, leading to veteran players ditching newer players as they skip everything and let the new players wipe while the vet players keep going. This is already something that happens with random queues and is not going to get better with longer random dungeons.

Keep the longer content to their own separate section. That said, it WOULD be nice if there was a better matchmaking system for the longer content and for the dungeons.

To make long dungeons worse is that random queue can send you into a PARTIALLY complete dungeon.

Apache_Kid · January 2018

I wish dungeons would do away with trash mobs all together. Make everything like AS and just let us go from boss to boss lol. I don't think I've ever gotten a single piece of satisfaction or enjoyment from fighting a mob of ads.

Apherius · January 2018

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

I have to agree with you here: the dungeon team designs the DLC dungeons (all of them) only with endgame veteran player population in mind (with all the insane mechanics that most players simply can not play) and them add a dumbed down normal mode that give no meaningful rewards as an alibi for rest of the player population.

I understand that endgame players want to have new stuff as well but I think it's time that we get new veteran content that can be played by non-god players as well. Being forced to play the the same old dungeons gets old fast. Or if you think that normal DLC dungeons are what we are supposed to play then give us a reasonable chance to get loot like motifs or monster helms.

If Horn of dungeon dungeon are destined to Endgame players, can you say me to who were destinated Imperial city dungeon when they released them if i follow your logic ? The answer is probably " Even Molag Bal could not have " I remember How hard they were compare to Horn of the reach Dungeon .... but some players were still able to complete them so i think you are exaggerating a bit when you say that "team designs the DLC dungeons only with endgame veteran player population in mind "

They won't add Monter helms for the same reason they didn't added maesltrom weapons to normal mode , because it's faceroll easy.

"veteran content than can be played by non-god players as well " , this shouldn't be called " veteran content " in this case, they should better add difficulty tier, to help players step by step.

Aerius_Sygale · January 2018

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

I want it easier, shorter, faster - ugh!

Nice juicy longer dungeons yes please !

No innuendos at all there, nope...

SinNoAria · January 2018

I think that what would be a nice change would be if they got off the longer dungeons, only 4 players idea.

What would be cool (especially if you look at queues) would be some 1/2/20/1 dungeons and 1/2/6 dungeons.

Basically, 1/2/20/1 = 1 tank, 2 healers, 20 damage, 1 flex (any role).

The dungeons would have to be set up for it and it would have some issues such as basically being trial tier, but it would give some benefits such as more flexible queues.

Also, some boss rush dungeons would be amazing-chains of bosses.

greylox · January 2018

They should add a medium mode that drops imperfect helms similar to nAS and also has maybe a few perks like a title and skin because normal is pointless at the moment other than to run it for story or random xp, geodes. It'd also add a feeling of progression instead of the current gaping chasm from normal to vet.

Unfortunately because I have eso plus I never queue for random vet anymore incase I get a dlc (which I haven't ever bought, I buy every other dlc though) The length is only a problem because they are boring, as has been stated, trash mobs - boss etc, no puzzles, no need for support classes.

RodneyRegis · January 2018

I'm trying to check out the new dungeons, but new to PTS. Can you use the dungeon finder or do you have to group?

s7732425ub17_ESO · January 2018

People are spending money on this content. So if they can easily beat it in 10 minutes, they will complain that they are not getting their money's worth. This is why all of the DLC dungeons are generally harder and longer.

LiquidPony · January 2018

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

IwakuraLain42 wrote: »

Wing wrote: »

I also would like to point out that there is almost NO reward for running the dungeon on normal, to the point where its either vet or gtfo as vet drops both the motifs (they "can" drop in normal, just like you "can" get an apex mount in just one crown crate) and the monster helms only drop on vet.

people do not run the dungeons for fun or to sniff the flowers (because they are designed for neither) so normal mode is as pointless as it sounds.

I have to agree with you here: the dungeon team designs the DLC dungeons (all of them) only with endgame veteran player population in mind (with all the insane mechanics that most players simply can not play) and them add a dumbed down normal mode that give no meaningful rewards as an alibi for rest of the player population.

I understand that endgame players want to have new stuff as well but I think it's time that we get new veteran content that can be played by non-god players as well. Being forced to play the the same old dungeons gets old fast. Or if you think that normal DLC dungeons are what we are supposed to play then give us a reasonable chance to get loot like motifs or monster helms.

If that was done then the same happens that happened to trials: Everyone just farms the normal versions. And I don’t agree you need to be a very good (even god like) player to finish a veteran dungeon, not even the DLC ones.

And what would be so bad about it ? It would give more players a chance to get the monster helmets and it would finally bring down the prices for DLC motifs to normal regions.

Also yes, you need to be a very good player for the veteran DLC dungeons, esp. with all the mechanics that give you 1-2 seconds to react or you are dead or all the direct and indirect DPS races in them.

Monster helms used to drop in normal dungeons. Not a fan, myself. Part of the progression in ESO, like many RPGs, is in improving because you want something. You want a Velidreth helm? Well, you better step your game up because you have to complete vCoS to get it.

And also, the base game dungeons are mostly easy even on vet/hard mode, and those dungeons offer plenty of opportunities to get great monster helms (Kra'gh, Selene, Mephala, Valkyn Skoria, Ilambris, Grothdarr, Slimecraw, Troll King, Pirate Skeleton, etc. etc.).

And as someone who focuses almost entirely on end game PvE, those expensive motifs that drop in DLC dungeons are basically my only source of income. There's no BoE gear anymore and Undaunted Plunder doesn't cover the cost of potions/poisons/repairs/CP respecs during progression. A couple of times a week I can get a group to go farm Bloodroot or Falkreath or Mazzatun and actually make some money so that I can buy the valuable stuff people get from doing difficult content like farming flowers and zerging Dolmen loops.

And even just doing the dungeons on vet doesn't guarantee a motif drop. You have to do hard mode to guarantee a motif. That's why the motifs are expensive ... because the difficulty gate ensures their rarity. And, IMO, that's a good thing. It's OK to lock some stuff behind difficulty gates, because otherwise, what incentive do people have to do difficult content?

Go that route and you end up with Destiny 2, where everyone has all the coolest gear a couple of weeks after launch and then they all stop playing the game. The grind is part of what makes an MMO tick.

Taleof2Cities · January 2018

LiquidPony wrote: »

Go that route and you end up with Destiny 2, where everyone has all the coolest gear a couple of weeks after launch and then they all stop playing the game.

That summarizes it pretty well, @LiquidPony.

If players want to do fast runs, you can do them in 30 minutes or less on normal mode.

If players have the time to do vet runs then by all means find a group and do vet.

Most of the whining in this thread, however, is from players that want top tier rewards with little to no effort ...