Quantum_V wrote: »

Constitution, wrath, lingering health pots, major mending on some skills, heavy armor overall, defensive CP scaling and blocking have been nerfed to the ground already,

Defile, defile scaling from CP, blockable skills have been made unblockable (like mages wrath), unblockable CCs, master weapons with bleeds, have all been implemented and buffed.

The only players you can't kill now are either; total complete specced out tanks (which at that point they're most likely irrelevant in Cyrodiil's scenario), or players that are probably better than you.

Not saying it's your case, or anybody's case, but after such numerous changes to the defensive meta people need to start thinking about what they're doing wrong instead of blaming the game for every difficult encounter in open world. l2p issues are a lot more common than what might think.

OBS.: yes, there are unkillable tanks in BGs that guard people and are actually relevant due to their ability to take flags and what not BUT no-CP BGs are coming so that'll be fixed.

DDuke wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

It’s more of a cycle than anything. In the past there was burst damage builds everywhere. And it worked well because there wasn’t much in the way of defense to prevent it. Now burst damage can be countered. And more who do not want fights to come down to who can get their rotation off the quickest have started build more defensively. I find many people who can’t counter tanks are ones who absolutely refuse to change from a burst dps build to a build that can counter high defensive builds.

If other players can adapt to counter the burst era then the burst users can adapt to the high defense era. There are counters and they seldom used. I can’t begin to tell you how many people opening attack on my tank is some burst dps combo. And more than 95% of the time it fails. Instead of applying debuffs and using skills, weapons, sets that bypass most of the defenses.

Quantum_V wrote: »

Constitution, wrath, lingering health pots, major mending on some skills, heavy armor overall, defensive CP scaling and blocking have been nerfed to the ground already,

Defile, defile scaling from CP, blockable skills have been made unblockable (like mages wrath), unblockable CCs, master weapons with bleeds, have all been implemented and buffed.

The only players you can't kill now are either; total complete specced out tanks (which at that point they're most likely irrelevant in Cyrodiil's scenario), or players that are probably better than you.

Not saying it's your case, or anybody's case, but after such numerous changes to the defensive meta people need to start thinking about what they're doing wrong instead of blaming the game for every difficult encounter in open world. l2p issues are a lot more common than what might think.

OBS.: yes, there are unkillable tanks in BGs that guard people and are actually relevant due to their ability to take flags and what not BUT no-CP BGs are coming so that'll be fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B01o2xtJwgk

The real problem is shield stacking.

Why do people want to go full glass cannon? because they know if they just stack damage and alittle bit on the side they can basically take down everything.

Burst isnt everything any more thankfully. More tanks will likely continue to show up as long as shield stacking continues.

With out shield stacking burst wouldnt really be needed as much as people are stacking. Then they can focus on countering the tanks defensives... but because they feel like burst is the only way due to how much you need in cyrodil to be effective... the counter tanks will likely continue to show up.

Cause thats how most of us are built... to counter your burst and capitalize on your errors in your builds.

I'm quite sure the S&B meta builds deal the same (and usually more) damage than those "full glass cannon" shield stackers.

See, it'd be fine if people playing "tanks" were actually playing tanks (i.e. low dmg, high survivability). But when all you give up by slotting S&B is 100-200 tooltip damage on skills while you get 3% passive mitigation & unlimited access to 60%+ block mitigation, something is wrong.

Something like Incap should have 1000-2000 lower tooltip with S&B than what you've got with DW or 2H equipped, not 100-200 - that's just bad balance.

Well .... if you think puncure or low slash is what is killing you then let me tell you it probably isnt. SnB damage is not really what anyone uses to take down anyone. infact you can't really unless you somehow die to a bash lol.

If a tank gets attacked from multiple sources sets like 7th ... though if they nerf that people wil just move on and on till we hit hundings or shackle breaker or something...

The tank knows that people who are wailing on him are not paying attention to their health thus allowing yourself to be killed slowly with an unsuspecting short burst. DK's for one have to get their ultimate up and that takes a good minute even with heroic slash so thats about 45+ seconds of counter play available.

You're thinking from a dps perspective obviously... 3 percent or 100-200 damage might make a difference to you but really to a tank it doesn't since most are not really attacking or going on the actual offensive with heroic slash or ransack/peirce armor(i mean really?)... Not only that even with medium armor on i dont really need to hold block ... just sometimes its a good way to mitigate cheese damage.

There are multiple ways to get the damage boost needed for the burst as well most of which are dps sets that are used in bursting people down. So to nerf tanking would be to nerf most dps sets in the game.... to nerf mitigation would make everyone basically naked anyways.

But to nerf shield stacking would mean people now have extra places and slots they can use to get around a tank defenses. The counters are there but its tough to build to counter a tank with how much burst is needed to get through those shields.

DDuke wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

Quantum_V wrote: »

Constitution, wrath, lingering health pots, major mending on some skills, heavy armor overall, defensive CP scaling and blocking have been nerfed to the ground already,

Defile, defile scaling from CP, blockable skills have been made unblockable (like mages wrath), unblockable CCs, master weapons with bleeds, have all been implemented and buffed.

The only players you can't kill now are either; total complete specced out tanks (which at that point they're most likely irrelevant in Cyrodiil's scenario), or players that are probably better than you.

Not saying it's your case, or anybody's case, but after such numerous changes to the defensive meta people need to start thinking about what they're doing wrong instead of blaming the game for every difficult encounter in open world. l2p issues are a lot more common than what might think.

OBS.: yes, there are unkillable tanks in BGs that guard people and are actually relevant due to their ability to take flags and what not BUT no-CP BGs are coming so that'll be fixed.

DDuke wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

umagon wrote: »

It’s more of a cycle than anything. In the past there was burst damage builds everywhere. And it worked well because there wasn’t much in the way of defense to prevent it. Now burst damage can be countered. And more who do not want fights to come down to who can get their rotation off the quickest have started build more defensively. I find many people who can’t counter tanks are ones who absolutely refuse to change from a burst dps build to a build that can counter high defensive builds.

If other players can adapt to counter the burst era then the burst users can adapt to the high defense era. There are counters and they seldom used. I can’t begin to tell you how many people opening attack on my tank is some burst dps combo. And more than 95% of the time it fails. Instead of applying debuffs and using skills, weapons, sets that bypass most of the defenses.

Quantum_V wrote: »

Constitution, wrath, lingering health pots, major mending on some skills, heavy armor overall, defensive CP scaling and blocking have been nerfed to the ground already,

Defile, defile scaling from CP, blockable skills have been made unblockable (like mages wrath), unblockable CCs, master weapons with bleeds, have all been implemented and buffed.

The only players you can't kill now are either; total complete specced out tanks (which at that point they're most likely irrelevant in Cyrodiil's scenario), or players that are probably better than you.

Not saying it's your case, or anybody's case, but after such numerous changes to the defensive meta people need to start thinking about what they're doing wrong instead of blaming the game for every difficult encounter in open world. l2p issues are a lot more common than what might think.

OBS.: yes, there are unkillable tanks in BGs that guard people and are actually relevant due to their ability to take flags and what not BUT no-CP BGs are coming so that'll be fixed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B01o2xtJwgk

The real problem is shield stacking.

Why do people want to go full glass cannon? because they know if they just stack damage and alittle bit on the side they can basically take down everything.

Burst isnt everything any more thankfully. More tanks will likely continue to show up as long as shield stacking continues.

With out shield stacking burst wouldnt really be needed as much as people are stacking. Then they can focus on countering the tanks defensives... but because they feel like burst is the only way due to how much you need in cyrodil to be effective... the counter tanks will likely continue to show up.

Cause thats how most of us are built... to counter your burst and capitalize on your errors in your builds.

I'm quite sure the S&B meta builds deal the same (and usually more) damage than those "full glass cannon" shield stackers.

See, it'd be fine if people playing "tanks" were actually playing tanks (i.e. low dmg, high survivability). But when all you give up by slotting S&B is 100-200 tooltip damage on skills while you get 3% passive mitigation & unlimited access to 60%+ block mitigation, something is wrong.

Something like Incap should have 1000-2000 lower tooltip with S&B than what you've got with DW or 2H equipped, not 100-200 - that's just bad balance.

Well .... if you think puncure or low slash is what is killing you then let me tell you it probably isnt. SnB damage is not really what anyone uses to take down anyone. infact you can't really unless you somehow die to a bash lol.

If a tank gets attacked from multiple sources sets like 7th ... though if they nerf that people wil just move on and on till we hit hundings or shackle breaker or something...

You hit the nail on the head there, it's not just sets like 7th Legion etc that makes "tank" builds overperform, it's S&B in general.

I can slot 5x Hunding's 5x Spriggan, and still the difference between running that setup with a DW or 2H on main bar & running it with S&B on main bar will be 100-200 tooltip damage (i.e. virtually nothing).

AddictionX wrote: »

The tank knows that people who are wailing on him are not paying attention to their health thus allowing yourself to be killed slowly with an unsuspecting short burst. DK's for one have to get their ultimate up and that takes a good minute even with heroic slash so thats about 45+ seconds of counter play available.

You're thinking from a dps perspective obviously... 3 percent or 100-200 damage might make a difference to you but really to a tank it doesn't since most are not really attacking or going on the actual offensive with heroic slash or ransack/peirce armor(i mean really?)... Not only that even with medium armor on i dont really need to hold block ... just sometimes its a good way to mitigate cheese damage.

It isn't necessary to even use Heroic Slash (which is trailing Surprise Attack by only around 300-400 dmg on tooltip).

Nothing prevents a S&B build from using class skills like Surprise Attack, Incap etc as their source of damage, as mentioned before there is no apparent downside when the only difference is 100-200 damage on tooltip.

And as you mentioned... having the S&B lets these builds pressure opponents without even having to hold block, because they never feel threatened at any point thanks to the S&B opness (and I don't use the word "op" slightly).

AddictionX wrote: »

There are multiple ways to get the damage boost needed for the burst as well most of which are dps sets that are used in bursting people down. So to nerf tanking would be to nerf most dps sets in the game.... to nerf mitigation would make everyone basically naked anyways.

What they need to do is not "nerf tanking", but nerf the damage potential of weapon types made for tanking.

There is no universe in which it is fair that a S&B player deals virtually the same amount of damage as I deal with DW or 2H (in the very same gear), while they also get all that mitigation.


There is a reason why pretty much every dueling tournament these days goes to S&B meta builds.

You some how managed to miss everything im telling you... you do not get the same damage you do from a surprise attack since nb if we are comparing apples and oranges are not only a class...

but they also have access to major resolve, minor resolve, major ward, minor ward, minor endurance(rare buff), major sorcery, major brutality, minor savagery, major beserk, minor beserk, major vitality, minor vitality, minor mending, major protection, minor protection, major evasion(blur has alot of buffs), Major expidition(double take, path of darkness, cripple), empower.......

Now debuffs avaliable..... major fracture, major breach, major defile(death stroke+morphs for 70 ultimate compared to the standard for 250! ultimate), Minor maim(though hard cc+snare).....

DDuke wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There is no universe in which it is fair that a S&B player deals virtually the same amount of damage as I deal with DW or 2H (in the very same gear), while they also get all that mitigation.

From what I'm seeing from your descriptions, a S&B play and a DW/2H player are dealing virtually the same damage with their class skills.

What's the problem with that? Using One-hand and Shield doesn't nerf your class skills and using DW and 2H doesn't buff your class skills (okay, dual swords sort of does). Why shouldn't your class skills be hitting for similar amounts?

Because the S&B not only gives you one extra set piece (compared to 2H), but also passively gives you 3% worth of mitigation (worth much more than the 100-200 tooltip dmg difference on skills) & infinite blocking capabilities (i.e. 60%+ mitigation)?

There is literally no compelling reason to run anything other than S&B if you're using your class skills to deal damage.

And that's a problem, why? If you are using DW or 2H versus 1H&S, presumably its because you want to use those weapon skills. But if you don't do damage using weapon skills, it makes perfect sense to use 1H&S for mitigation while using your class skills for damage.

I don't see how this is somehow unfair that your class skills hit for more or less the same amount of damage no matter which weapon skills you are using.

Basically, a S&B player trades weapon skill damage from DW or 2H for increased mitigation from S&B. That's a fair tradeoff - unless you are trying ot argue that DW and 2H need more damage to equal the S&B mitigation benefits. Using DW, 2H or S&B doesn't affect your class skill damage very much, and I'm confused as to how exactly that's unfiar.

Well, you can get ZoS to nerf stuff, but player who know what they are doing are always going to be hard to kill.

They nerfed or took away every single one of my defensive class skills so that the only thing I can do is hold down block. The nerfed my heals, took away my healing passives, buffed the crap out of defile, buffed bleeds, nerfed sustain, nerfed dodge, nerfed blocked numerous times. And yet here we are.

No matter what ZoS nerfs, I'll adapt such that my regen is always going to be roughly 1800ish and add a defensive set/skill to cover any nerf to my defense because I don't like to die. If they nerf my sets, I'll find another. And nerfs work both ways; ask a sorcerer how much fun it is to play now that they pretty much need to complete DSA just to get enough firepower to compete.

DDuke wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There is no universe in which it is fair that a S&B player deals virtually the same amount of damage as I deal with DW or 2H (in the very same gear), while they also get all that mitigation.

From what I'm seeing from your descriptions, a S&B play and a DW/2H player are dealing virtually the same damage with their class skills.

What's the problem with that? Using One-hand and Shield doesn't nerf your class skills and using DW and 2H doesn't buff your class skills (okay, dual swords sort of does). Why shouldn't your class skills be hitting for similar amounts?

Because the S&B not only gives you one extra set piece (compared to 2H), but also passively gives you 3% worth of mitigation (worth much more than the 100-200 tooltip dmg difference on skills) & infinite blocking capabilities (i.e. 60%+ mitigation)?

There is literally no compelling reason to run anything other than S&B if you're using your class skills to deal damage.

And that's a problem, why? If you are using DW or 2H versus 1H&S, presumably its because you want to use those weapon skills. But if you don't do damage using weapon skills, it makes perfect sense to use 1H&S for mitigation while using your class skills for damage.

I don't see how this is somehow unfair that your class skills hit for more or less the same amount of damage no matter which weapon skills you are using.

Basically, a S&B player trades weapon skill damage from DW or 2H for increased mitigation from S&B. That's a fair tradeoff - unless you are trying ot argue that DW and 2H need more damage to equal the S&B mitigation benefits. Using DW, 2H or S&B doesn't affect your class skill damage very much, and I'm confused as to how exactly that's unfiar.

You see no problem in that person A has 20k burst damage, but dies in less than 20 seconds because he doesn't have mitigation and can't block infinitely, while person B has 19,9k burst damage but is virtually unkillable thanks to extra mitigation & infinite blocking?
Which build would you play, if you were a competitive player?

Rhetorical question, but feel free to answer if you must.


Not everyone wants to play a S&B build.

Give me the math behind 19k burst damage i would love to have that. Cause now your claiming things out of thin air lol

also give me the math behind infinte blocking....

DDuke wrote: »

AddictionX wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

There is no universe in which it is fair that a S&B player deals virtually the same amount of damage as I deal with DW or 2H (in the very same gear), while they also get all that mitigation.

From what I'm seeing from your descriptions, a S&B play and a DW/2H player are dealing virtually the same damage with their class skills.

What's the problem with that? Using One-hand and Shield doesn't nerf your class skills and using DW and 2H doesn't buff your class skills (okay, dual swords sort of does). Why shouldn't your class skills be hitting for similar amounts?

Because the S&B not only gives you one extra set piece (compared to 2H), but also passively gives you 3% worth of mitigation (worth much more than the 100-200 tooltip dmg difference on skills) & infinite blocking capabilities (i.e. 60%+ mitigation)?

There is literally no compelling reason to run anything other than S&B if you're using your class skills to deal damage.

And that's a problem, why? If you are using DW or 2H versus 1H&S, presumably its because you want to use those weapon skills. But if you don't do damage using weapon skills, it makes perfect sense to use 1H&S for mitigation while using your class skills for damage.

I don't see how this is somehow unfair that your class skills hit for more or less the same amount of damage no matter which weapon skills you are using.

Basically, a S&B player trades weapon skill damage from DW or 2H for increased mitigation from S&B. That's a fair tradeoff - unless you are trying ot argue that DW and 2H need more damage to equal the S&B mitigation benefits. Using DW, 2H or S&B doesn't affect your class skill damage very much, and I'm confused as to how exactly that's unfiar.

You see no problem in that person A has 20k burst damage, but dies in less than 20 seconds because he doesn't have mitigation and can't block infinitely, while person B has 19,9k burst damage but is virtually unkillable thanks to extra mitigation & infinite blocking?
Which build would you play, if you were a competitive player?

Rhetorical question, but feel free to answer if you must.


Not everyone wants to play a S&B build.

Give me the math behind 19k burst damage i would love to have that. Cause now your claiming things out of thin air lol

also give me the math behind infinte blocking....

20k/19,9k were just an example, but I happen to like math so here's two mirror setups, one with S&B another with 2H. Not meta setups or anything, but just to give you an example of the damage difference between combos:

S&B

Gear: 2x Troll King 5x Legion 3x Agi 2x Asylum S&B
Buffs: Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Off Balance, +20% dmg after Incap
Total DmgDone Modifier: 54% (8% Minor Berserk+13% Mighty+23% Master-at-Arms+10% Off Balance)

5063 (Light Attack)/2(Battle Spirit)=2531+70%(CritModifier)=4302
19 624 (Incap)/2(Battle Spirit)=9812+70%(CritModifier)=16 680
[23 095 (Merciless)/2(Battle Spirit)]+20%(Incap DmgTaken debuff)=13 857+70%(CritModifier)=23 556
[4024 (Bash)/2(Battle Spirit)]+20%(Incap DmgTaken debuff)=2414+70%(CritModifier)=4104

---

48 642 Burst Damage (on zero mitigation/defensive CPs)

2H

Gear: 2x Troll King 5x Legion 3x Agi 2x Asylum 2H
Buffs: Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Off Balance, +20% dmg after Incap
Total DmgDone Modifier: 54% (8% Minor Berserk+13% Mighty+23% Master-at-Arms+10% Off Balance)

6837 (Light Attack)/2(Battle Spirit)=3418+70%(CritModifier)=5811
19 902 (Incap)/2(Battle Spirit)=9951+70%(CritModifier)=16 917
[23 423 (Merciless)/2(Battle Spirit)]+20%(Incap DmgTaken debuff)=14 053+70%(CritModifier)=23 891
[2094 (Bash)/2(Battle Spirit)]+20%(Incap DmgTaken debuff)=1256+70%(CritModifier)=2135

---

48 754 Burst Damage (on zero mitigation/defensive CPs)

As for permablocking... I'll just refer you to any duel spot anywhere, good luck running one of those S&B builds out of stamina.

That said, it's hard to assess if they'd be able to do so, as these builds will be the ones pressuring you (not the other way around) and they only block after you've (unsuccessfully) tried to burst their 20k+ health down through the S&B mitigation.

2-3 seconds with Troll King & they're back at full health nuking you with virtually the same dmg as any 2H or DW build.

Troll king description is....When you heal a friendly target, if they are still below 50% Health, their Health Recovery is increased by 1548 for 10 seconds.http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Troll+King+Set < unless this has not been updated but as far as that shows you need a friend for that to work and they need to be below 50 percent health. To grant THEM 1548 health recovery.... it only add's 2 percent healing otherwise. So probably not going to do much to top off your health like you see in these duels.

Im not sure about you but.... 1548 health recovery on a friend isnt helping me at all... even say if it was on me have you ever tried a health recovery build? with like beekeeper? I think you should try it from what i understand you can get your health recovery around 4k or more...

Legion shines in out numbered situations or situations with alot of DoTs... but mostly in outnumbered situations it requires you to take a beating from usually ultra burst classes that stack every damage buff they can find... I'm sure it really isnt used in duels cause high burst will counter this very well... but no sustain here ....

So then lets talk about the agility set: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Agility+Set

(2 items) Adds 1451 Max Stamina

(3 items) Adds 193 Weapon Damage

So you get abit of stamina and some weapon damage you could go for full weapon damage glyphs but your recovery will be around 500-600 depending on race. So no sustain here.... i guess..

Now lets look at the asylum weapons: http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Defensive+Position+Set

Perfected: (2 Items) When you reflect or absorb a spell projectile with Defensive Posture, you restore 2000 Magicka. If Defensive Posture expires without reflecting or absorbing a spell projectile, you restore 5000 Magicka instead. Not a spell attack or a melee spell attack ...fire, lightining, ice..... it has to be a projectile.

requires you to run defensive posture specifically and requires a spell to be casted at you. So lets just say this skill is now useless in half your battles... defensive stance (what i use for pvp but situational and dont usually slot it) has a duration of 30 seconds... so lets restore 5k magicka every 30 seconds or... 5k/15(cause it takes two seconds to get a recovery tick) would make it out to be 333.333 extra recovery added in a no projectile fight...

or

Spam (defensive stance) for 2187 per cast while reflecting 1 projectile costing around 600 (with the new changes) it cost around 2700ish stamina to get back 2000 magicka. Well, a problem here is that is not enough to sustain block... even if they're light attack spamming a fire ball into a clench or something you will not be fast enough to reflect both that and the weave and waste even more stamina breaking free and then go back to holding block at which point it will not recover.

While i realize that you think this is somehow viable it does not provide the sustainment needed to survive you will run out of resources too fast and you have no real way to heal yourself. Even with all sustain glyphs on the jewelry you will lack the weapon damage to pull off any sort of burst.

Your stats in open world cyrodil will look something like 1500-1900 stamina regen with about 1900 weapon damage with major brutality. Lets say legion procs you will have around 2400 with major brutality(for 5 seconds the arms glow orange so its obvious its comming if at all).... that still is not enough to get enough heals to out heal the damage and pressure, we are now losing more resources that we can afford to lose holding block(only way to gain resources is to use heavy attack spam counterable simply by walking through a person no need to dodge).

Major brutality is one buff most classes can reliably keep up otherwise, wardens cliff racer is the thing that comes to mind that can keep 100 percent uptime on minor berserk. Unless you want to wear slimeclaw. On a night blade i guess you can use grim focus plus morphs but your already having sustain isssues and if your not having sustain issues your going to have heal/damage issues...

I dont know where you got the random off balance buff but if you're refering to the cp tactician to roll dodge an attack(now we are moving away from blocking) into using the other cp skill exploiter to get a 10 percent increase on damage but 4 second window so on top of the seventh proc (5 second window) you're going to waste abit of time roll dodging an attack (at which case you better hope its a dot procing it cause we are now "dodging" an attack and will not have any way to proc it at all) but lets just say it does...

and then the incap .... 20 percent dont to the enemey for 6 seconds but your already running out of time(5 seconds from 7th proc and 4 seconds from off balance and almost 1 second lost from recovering from the dodge and to position yourself for the counter-attack.)

This scenario just has too many variables to really take it seriously. The numbers do not add up to do it consistently.

To be clear in reference to this thread permablocking was an issue becuase they can infinitely sustain some how in open world.... the reason you see them block sustaining is because they have to heavy attack every now and then to regain resources and block the predictable burst cause every sorc basically has the same rotation, every night blade basically does the same thing, every templar basically attacks the same way, every class magicka and stamina pretty much acts the same way for most of the time cause they're all mostly "copy paste youtube"....

and basically you're at that point what people would call.... tactically blocking .... and tactically heavy attacking to regain stamina back in which case you have to drop your block (stamina wont recover for 2 seconds) to gain resources....

What i can infer from the general direction of your post is that you lack understanding of what enables a block build to block... and look at multiple cases of ulti-dumping agaisnt a block build as a means to consider that it is too strong.

For example i often bait people into thinking im out of stamina or dont have the resources to heal myself... thus they will burn through their resources super fast and ulti-dump me at the moment i want them too... this is better than using cost increasing poisons btw. I typically negate the first hit from criting with a very very very very low damage shield after breaking free and hold block while probably dodging out of any aoe... this wouldnt be possible if i was out of resources but because the player misjudged and thought i would be an easy kill i instead countered that mentality and captitalized on it.


I'll probably comment on the rest of your post later but for now i must sleep....

just play no cp.. problem surved

In my humble opinion the problem is set design. There are a lot of sets that ZOS introduced because they offer “cool” unique perks, but then they don’t take PvP into account. Just think of Earthgore. Experienced PvPers instantly realized how overpowered the set would be if more than 1 player wears it in a raid situation. You have full control over the proc and the long CD is no issue if you have 3 or 4 players out of 15 who are wearing it. However it took some months for ZOS to realize this, and update 17 brings a questionable adjustment (arguably the 10k/s heal for free is the issue, the ultra negate is a bonus on top).

It’s the same with Wizards Reposte and Impregnable Armor. You just need to wear one of those to get tanky while maintaining your offensive capability. Instead of class nerfs it’s the sets that should be balanced.

Of course, the main issue is there doesn’t seem to be a clear Vision of what PvP should be (other than the general breakdown of small scale and the favor to zerging). I would start with how I’d like TTK to be in different scenarios (CP, noCP, BG) and adjust from there. CP is a major balance obstacle though. There is not an easy solution.

I am nowhere near being a good PvP player but I know basics . Personally , the only reason I use Heavy Armor and 1h/s (no I am not playing a permablock build) is to survive the absurdly high burst damage that everyone relies on to get kills . I honestly think that the burst damage you can obtain in PvP is too high and effective . Even DoT builds are relying on some kind of burst to get kills . They just have those DoTs for pressure , not for kills .

Alcast wrote: »

Blocking mechanic, S&B and Resto Ulti and Sets like Wizard Riposte, Pirate Skeleton, Seventh Legion and many others are a huge problem.

It just makes no sense whatsoever to have more outgoing damage on a S&B tank setup compared to a 2H/bow setup, which is currently the case. Reducing the damage of those tanky setups will most likely create a shift towards more offensive builds?

Thats why all your PvE stam DDs run s&b now in their raids, right? Or have you suddenly become a PvP expert? The only time I ever see you in PvP is running around in bigsize pug herds, desperately crit charging the heck out of any soloer you come across.