ESO combat quality is FAR WORSE from its competitors?

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

MercTheMage wrote: »

Are you at all familiar with the concept of nitpicking?
You seem to have mastered it...

Thanks, I've also mastered the art of sarcastic.
But to be fair, I wouldn't call it nitpicking, since the problem is very noticeable, I simply be honest to myself and stop sugar coating ESO for once.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Flynch wrote: »

For me - i'm content with how it is - but there are a few things that could push it into the 'fantastic' territory:

1. Reverb/Camera shake on Light and Heavy attacks. Nothing crazy like BDO, but a subtle shift to accentuate contact and/or blocking
2. Speaking of contact - it would be nice if melee range was actually melee. I understand why they have it seemingly work at 5 metres or so, however.
3. And yeah the messy critical kills from melee would be great to spice things up a bit, so kudos to that idea. Not a slow-down like with AoC, just a clean and fast animation. The death animation of the NPC would be sufficient to get the point across so as not to slow down combat.

Hey I really like ideas. Would love to see them come true.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Astrid_V wrote: »

It's too "cheesy"...

But I love cheese

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

andreasv wrote: »

If I compare to BDO it is worse. It doesn't feel as powerful. I don't get the impression that attacks connect with my target. But the best thing about BDO combat is how skills are constructed. It's not just a simple number press (although you can set it up for some skills), but it's key combinations. And building up some combos is not just LMB, 1,2, LMB, 3,4,5 but rather:

[SHIFT]+[SPACEBAR] followed by
[F] then
[SHIFT] + [F] followed by
[SHIFT] + (S) followed by
(S)+[F] followed by
[RMB] then
(S)+[E] and
[SHIFT]+[LPM+PPM] finishing with
[LMB].

But I guess BDO has been designed with grinding XP via combat in mind, whereas ESO is more about Story and lore.

As I said, we'll exclude the actual combat mechanic or balance change in this post, since it'll be super long, and blood might be spilled in the progress

But yeah, the animation is pretty good at some point, and utterly terrible at others. The hitbox is ridiculously off track, swinging weightless weapons is just not fun, etc.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Eremith wrote: »

So many misunderstandings here... People just don't understand what OP's talking about. And they vote "No" because they thinks that "Yes" means "I want classic WoW-like combat system"...

Seems like all people who voted "No" didn't play other MMOs, and they think that all other MMOs combat systems are WoW-like.
OP doesn't say that we need long cooldowns, and he doesn't ask to add 5+ quick slot panels, it's not about all that stuff, forget about WoW combat, this topic is not about that at all. This topic is about combat feeling. Animation transitions, movements, character positioning.

I totally agree that ESO's combat fluidity and it's visuals are not good at all. I would be glad if ZOS finally make combat overhaul. ESO needs to get rid of animation cancelling. ESO needs more fluidity in combat.

Someone mentioned Black Desert and Blade and Soul. Those are games ESO should be compared with. I'm not talking about asian-style visual effects, blinks, 5 meters high jumping or something like that. I'm talking about animation transitions, positioning, fluidity in character's movements and actions.

You made my time posting this thread totally worth it my friend

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Best I've played in an MMO. There's better in MOBA's but there is also worse.

Opinion appreciated

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

dsalter wrote: »

they need to fix up the animation system so that "animation cancelling" as people still consider this broken exploit a "feature" just cause the devs said "its no big deal" yes because spazzing controls more like an impatient child doesn't increase your output... oh wait it does.
there's a reason in action paced games short animations still have to be played to do the attack/ability, because if everything was an instant flash then combat would be so short and... dull.... that it wouldn't be worth it, in no way should using A, tap block, use be, tap block, use bash, use A should result in more impact, its just awful.
performance should be based on *gasp* performance and input not just input.

but fix up the combat animation system so that this "animation cancelling" "skill" play gets ruled out and i can see balance being more obtainable as atm so many combo's and setups are massively strong because of this BS and so the lesser performing setups that cant abuse said "feature" get shafted everytime difficulty gets ramped up or flat nerfs happen

Can't say better myself

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

jabrone77 wrote: »

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

Fermian wrote: »

Some melee animations can be improved. But i like the system as it is. To me it feels rpg worthy. Never expected I would like a system with only a couple skills on my bar.

My friend, you might need to read my post first ESO combat has a lot of broken stuff.

Why do you ask people to participate in a poll, ask them to give thier thoughts, then tell them they can't read? If it's good to them, then it is.
I don't normally look to see who posts what, but in your case, I'm not going to participate in any more of your topics, because you ask for opinions that are subjective to each individual, then you argue with them.
We get it, you don't like it. That doesn't mean everyone agrees or should agree with you, my friend.
Your polls are just set up for you to argue.
Good day.

My friend, I politely asked that person to re-read my post, and that's it. I was just afraid that he skipped my point, since he seemed to be overly positive about this subject. That's all. I did not try to be rude, or to start an argument, this post isn't a bait for anything, that person hasn't even said anything about me attacking him yet. Overreacting is not necessary here mate.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Hahahaha no. Tab targetted mmos are trash. Just because most people got used to that trash doesn't mean it's good. ESO has probably the most fluid combat I've seen of all mmos. Also the aim assist is spot on and you never hit unintended targets.

My friend, I think you got the wrong idea. I compared ESO to BDO (which is an action combat game), and Blade and Soul (another action combat game). I've never said anything WOW, or FF14, or even GW2 in that regard.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

SisterGoat wrote: »

No auto attack or too many cool downs. I think it's pretty decent. I would like to have at least 1 more slot on my skill bar though.

What you're talking is about mechanical, and it's not what this topic is about

My point is sorely focus on the satisfaction and fun-factor of the combat animation though.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Voxicity wrote: »

Tried BDO, and every tab target MMO in existence. None even come close to the fluidity of ESO's combat

Love to hear your passion for ESO

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

its perfect the way it is... what it makes it worse is the god forsaken LAG/SPIKES/DELAYS...

Kiralyn2000 · January 2018

Alas, I haven't played any of the "modern" MMOs you mention, so I can't really say. (Only other MMOs I've played the last couple years have been Secret World/SWLegends and Star Trek Online. ESO's combat is much better.

)

Really, I haven't played many "action" combat MMOs. Only other one I can think of right now is TERA. And that's much more of an "action game" style thing - twitch-timed leaping/dodging boss fights, etc. Doesn't really compare.

...honestly, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell much anyway. I'm not one of those people who notices frame skips unless they're really glaring, don't mind playing games below 60fps, don't mind v-sync, don't notice the minor SFX gaffes in movies, etc. ESO seems just fine to me.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Mangybeard wrote: »

Since the games success has depended on player feedback (especially in regard to combat) I think it's pretty silly to not bring up ways in which it could be improved. I don't think it's a mess anymore like it was at launch, I think it functions well and it's fun.

Things can always be improved on though, let's not pretend this is groundbreaking stuff. I think some of the criticisms here are worth consideration.

Just some background story

In 2015, when the game relaunched at "Tamriel Unlimited", the combat animation was overhauled, and it was flawless.
Skip to 2016, when Thieves Guild DLC came out on PTS, everyone hated the new combat animation system. It looked way uglier and more janky somehow. After the backlash, ZOS decided not to implement it.
But then also in 2016, when Dark Brotherhood came out, ZOS secretly put that same janky animation back into ESO, without even putting it in the patch note. A lot of people out cried about it, but a lot more was just way too optimistic about it, saying "ZOS knows what they're doing".
And now in 2018, we still have the same horrible animation

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Kiralyn2000 wrote: »

Alas, I haven't played any of the "modern" MMOs you mention, so I can't really say. (Only other MMOs I've played the last couple years have been Secret World/SWLegends and Star Trek Online. ESO's combat is much better. )

Really, I haven't played many "action" combat MMOs. Only other one I can think of right now is TERA. And that's much more of an "action game" style thing - twitch-timed leaping/dodging boss fights, etc. Doesn't really compare.

...honestly, I'm not sure I'd be able to tell much anyway. I'm not one of those people who notices frame skips unless they're really glaring, don't mind playing games below 60fps, don't mind v-sync, don't notice the minor SFX gaffes in movies, etc. ESO seems just fine to me.

No need for that much of details mate. Asking for solid 60 fps, or perfect SFX in a game such as ESO is way too unrealistic.
That point is much more simple: Do you feel like ESO combat can do a lot better than right now? Have you ever deal damage on someone, without even "hitting" them? Or maybe some skill animation that are so bad, you just really want to stay away from it? Cause it's a yes for me to all of those questions, sadly

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO wrote: »

its perfect the way it is... what it makes it worse is the god forsaken LAG/SPIKES/DELAYS...

I'm just here talking about the animation my friend, cause the server issue is a LONNNNNGGGGGGG way to go.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Dawnblade wrote: »

I voted other.

As someone who has played online MMOs for a decade on a PC, I much prefer (force of habit mostly) the style of PC based MMOs with more abilities, more key binds, ability cooldowns, multiple resources (like builders vs finishers), etc.

I also move with my mouse in almost every other game (LMB+RMB = run, turn by moving mouse), have key abilities mapped to the dozen buttons on my mouse (though I only use maybe 9 as my hand is too small to hit all the ones on the side), and use my left hand for other binds (longer cooldown abilities or 'oh sh*t' buttons), modifier binds, and some strafing.

I realize having things like block and light / heavy attacks make this nearly impossible to allow my preferred way of moving with mouse and still have functional combat, but I would enjoy combat more in this game if it were more PC based (such as individual key binds for every skill instead of this limited five ability, bar flipping console style).

Also the latency and responsiveness of combat in ESO feels a bit sluggish, even in less populated areas, though it is not the worst I've ever played.

Animation cancelling is a joke - sure its a 'skill' in that you have to understand how it works and practice, but launching a major AAA game with it the way ESO did as an unintended feature, and the tossing up your hands with a 'can't fix it, just roll with it' attitude is laughable (and I'm with many posting - it feels even worse now than originally with all the changes and 'improvements' made over the years).

Unintended or not, animation canceling isn't a deal breaker to me, but how it is implemented is though

Wifeaggro13 · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

Pr0Skygon wrote: »

No no no, we're not talking about class balance or anything of that concern, I'm talking about raw combat quality, about how it feels, how it plays and satisfying is it.
And no, "MMORPG combat are generally sucks" is not a relevant thing anymore, or "I still find ESO combat fun, so it's fine". Yes, it is fun, that's why we're all playing it, but it can be better, much better.
For example (and there's a lot of them), 1H weapon is weightless to swing; the hit box for all melee weapons are off, the weapons don't even touch the enemies, but the damage is still done; animation canceling feels too clunky (I'm not talking about deleting animation canceling all together though), my stam characters always twitching while in combat, it's like they have seizure or something; range light attack often jam and can't perform the follow up skill; range heavy attack often stuck in animation (especially staves); a lot of skills just look and feel ridiculous, such as "Low Slash", which is nothing more than gently scratch the enemy's legs; etc.
To sum it up, after the change of animation in 2016, the games combat feels and plays a lot worse, not just for me, but for a lot of people. Even some big ESO name like Alcast and Joy actually feel the same. But I'm not just jumping into conclusion here, so I'd love to see your vote on this subject

Well as far as action combat goes its not bad. but my biggest concern is when you take a bug like animation canceling that was clearly known and had been working on a fix since first phase beta. then you turn around and call it a feature 1 years after launch, its a problem. The biggest problem with the combat system is its a one trick pony and relys far to much on DPS and individual performance. Combat mechaincs are far to shallow it lacks any real utility mechanics or true CC. everything is secondary off a dps ability or a ability that increases DPS. everything else is an after thought even healing. Blocking mechanics are awesome and bashing to stop abilities wes well implemented. But on the whole this game left a lot at the door in an effort to produce an aim based combat system that in all honesty is just different not better then games produced prior to 08. In all honesty AOC had better variety and depth to its combat, it may not have been as smooth but it was not all DPS your way through it and use utility as secondary timed buffs of other abilities.

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

Totally.

Even other MMO's with similar systems to ESO's had better design and developed much better when it took place.

magictucktuck · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

I have tried playing other MMO's recently and i litterally cant get into because the combat is NOT like eso. ESO has the only combat where you are actually in control

magictucktuck · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

jr88 wrote: »

It's Pretty bad dude lol...it's use and spam this one ability approach to *** and hope it crits lol

Thats not how you should be playing and if you are you re doing it wrong

Doctordarkspawn · January 2018

Totally.

Eremith wrote: »

So many misunderstandings here... People just don't understand what OP's talking about. And they vote "No" because they thinks that "Yes" means "I want classic WoW-like combat system"...

Seems like all people who voted "No" didn't play other MMOs, and they think that all other MMOs combat systems are WoW-like.
OP doesn't say that we need long cooldowns, and he doesn't ask to add 5+ quick slot panels, it's not about all that stuff, forget about WoW combat, this topic is not about that at all. This topic is about combat feeling. Animation transitions, movements, character positioning.

I totally agree that ESO's combat fluidity and it's visuals are not good at all. I would be glad if ZOS finally make combat overhaul. ESO needs to get rid of animation cancelling. ESO needs more fluidity in combat.

Someone mentioned Black Desert and Blade and Soul. Those are games ESO should be compared with. I'm not talking about asian-style visual effects, blinks, 5 meters high jumping or something like that. I'm talking about animation transitions, positioning, fluidity in character's movements and actions.

This.

Your perceptions are not the OP's position. Learn to discern the difference.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

OK so this is from a PvE perspective: If there is anything in ESO that i hate more than having to remake my builds every few months cuz of all the balance changes it is combat. It's boring, clunky, unresponsive and built around an exploit the couldn't fix. It feels like i'm playing and old mortal kombat game where i have to execute some fatality rotation over and over till the enemy is dead and it's boring. GCD while may be nescesarry forces me to press each button like five times before ability fires off wich makes it feel unresponsive and contrary to pupular belief it doesn't feel fast paced at all. As for weaving it's not actually a bad mechanic per se but considering all of the above and animation problems that pop up from time to time and aren't fixed for months (i'm looking at you strife). it turns eso combat into a nightmare for me. Now yes its a problem of nerly every MMO out there, yes, but most of them doesn't have some semi-hidden mechanics that aren't explained anywhere in game at all and don't really work that well sometimes.

hit the nail on the head. dont turn around and call animation canceling a feature when the game was not designed to have it. it was a bug that people exploited to false increase their dps to numbers not intended by the dev team, and be able to avoid mechanics in trials and V dungeons . then when you cant fix it or it takes to much time you turn around and call it a feature a 9 months after launch then design your encounters around them .... well its just plain dumb. this is one major reason new people struggle and bail in the end game , and truthfully a major reason the end game community has no permanent player base.

Wifeaggro13 · January 2018

Other (leave your comment below, I'd love to read them)

Ackwalan wrote: »

Animation canceling was never supposed to be a thing. It is a broken mechanic that ZOS could never figure out how to fix.

yep

technohic · January 2018

Nope, not at all.

I enjoy the combat; when it works. Even animation cancelling if it were consistent.

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

magictucktuck wrote: »

I have tried playing other MMO's recently and i litterally cant get into because the combat is NOT like eso. ESO has the only combat where you are actually in control

Well since this falls under personal taste, I can only agree to that

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Eremith wrote: »

So many misunderstandings here... People just don't understand what OP's talking about. And they vote "No" because they thinks that "Yes" means "I want classic WoW-like combat system"...

Seems like all people who voted "No" didn't play other MMOs, and they think that all other MMOs combat systems are WoW-like.
OP doesn't say that we need long cooldowns, and he doesn't ask to add 5+ quick slot panels, it's not about all that stuff, forget about WoW combat, this topic is not about that at all. This topic is about combat feeling. Animation transitions, movements, character positioning.

I totally agree that ESO's combat fluidity and it's visuals are not good at all. I would be glad if ZOS finally make combat overhaul. ESO needs to get rid of animation cancelling. ESO needs more fluidity in combat.

Someone mentioned Black Desert and Blade and Soul. Those are games ESO should be compared with. I'm not talking about asian-style visual effects, blinks, 5 meters high jumping or something like that. I'm talking about animation transitions, positioning, fluidity in character's movements and actions.

This.

Your perceptions are not the OP's position. Learn to discern the difference.

it's close actually

Close enough

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Even other MMO's with similar systems to ESO's had better design and developed much better when it took place.

Well ESO did launch with horrible stage, but let's not dig into the dark past. Let's talk about future and how we can make ESO feels and plays even better

In the animation part that is

teiselaise · January 2018

It's fine as it is, but I'd love to see some improvement.

Fix shadow image and it would be perfect

Pr0Skygon · January 2018

Not far worse, but yeah, worse.

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

inf.toniceb17_ESO wrote: »

OK so this is from a PvE perspective: If there is anything in ESO that i hate more than having to remake my builds every few months cuz of all the balance changes it is combat. It's boring, clunky, unresponsive and built around an exploit the couldn't fix. It feels like i'm playing and old mortal kombat game where i have to execute some fatality rotation over and over till the enemy is dead and it's boring. GCD while may be nescesarry forces me to press each button like five times before ability fires off wich makes it feel unresponsive and contrary to pupular belief it doesn't feel fast paced at all. As for weaving it's not actually a bad mechanic per se but considering all of the above and animation problems that pop up from time to time and aren't fixed for months (i'm looking at you strife). it turns eso combat into a nightmare for me. Now yes its a problem of nerly every MMO out there, yes, but most of them doesn't have some semi-hidden mechanics that aren't explained anywhere in game at all and don't really work that well sometimes.

hit the nail on the head. dont turn around and call animation canceling a feature when the game was not designed to have it. it was a bug that people exploited to false increase their dps to numbers not intended by the dev team, and be able to avoid mechanics in trials and V dungeons . then when you cant fix it or it takes to much time you turn around and call it a feature a 9 months after launch then design your encounters around them .... well its just plain dumb. this is one major reason new people struggle and bail in the end game , and truthfully a major reason the end game community has no permanent player base.

Well to be fair, the game GTA was a giant bug that was originally a racing game. But then again, they learnt how to turned a bug into a feature, ESO simply calls a bug to be a "feature", and does nothing to improve it (actually, they made it worse).