The OP has a valid point. This should be examined further.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

You PVPers need to stop complaining, you're still making stones hand-over-fist while us PVE players earn them at a snail's pace.

I don't think I'd label the PvP community as the "complainers" in this thread

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 5 per pledge or something like that.

That's what we currently get. For it to be anywhere close to comparable, we would have to get 10 stones per HM Vet pledge completed. That would get us 30 stones for 3+ hours, which would put us in about the same rate as the PVPers that get 4-50 per couple hours (or less) plus another 50 at the end of the month just handed to them.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

This right here tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You HAVE to do the dungeons on veteran and on hard mode to get the purple geode, otherwise you get a crappy blue one. You also said trials instead of dungeons. Trials are completely different, and while it's true that you can get 5 stones per trial per character on normal difficulty, that is not only WEEKLY, but it's also monumentally harder to get a group together to run trials and they are also much longer and/or harder than most dungeons, with only Hel Ra and Asylum being exceptions.

you are wrong man,yesterday was faming solo Darkshade caverns norm mode and i got a purple geode

I would get min. 4 and be lucky to get any more that day, even though I received a ton of RotW each day.

Sounds exactly what doing 4 Dungeons (Pledges + random) gives out, with any other crystals at the mercy of RNG.

Assuming PTS stays the same, there'll be 10k AP per Battleground (last place) in the future though...

Read the patch notes for the next update, you're arguing for the sake of argument, as this is already being changed. You only get a geode from the first RotW per day per account.
Reread those patch notes, the only change is the guaranteed geode from the first mail will only come once per account... you'll still get geodes at random for every RotW bag after that.

I'm not, I'm assuming you play PvE and enjoy PvE, therefore you at least do the daily pledges.
Once you have enough Undaunted keys, what reason is there to do Pledges anymore? No need to assume playing PvE is limited to doing Pledges for keys/helms on Vet.

3 dungeons daily, one of which is a normal dungeon, most people can solo those (that's right, most, not the 1%).
Not sure what you're trying to say here, as there's 3 pledges and 1 random dungeon (Normal or Vet, normal is faster of course) and it's complete RNG if the random matches up to a pledge on any given day. Thus usually running at least 4 dungeons, normal or otherwise.
Anyone who can solo a normal dungeon can solo a Cryodiil resource, by the way. Soloing group content requires knowing what you're doing, even if you think you can light attack through it naked.

What if I need them now ?
Someone in desperate, desperate need of Transmute stones (I can't imagine why) is still going to grind PvE or PvP for those stones, either RotW bags or otherwise so I'm not sure this point. Given Transmutation is by design supplementary gearing, a fix to extreme bad luck really, I'm going to guess a lot of people don't need to "no life grind" for them over a day or anything.

Getting 10k AP for a RotW is not comparable to a random normal dungeon, more like 2 pledges on vet. Again, that's for most people, I guess your personal experience is different.
You'll have to explain this one, as soloing Cryodiil resources for 1.6k AP or following a crowd into a Keep capture/actual player vs player battle is a far cry from Veteran Dungeons pugging, if I'm honest. If PTS remains then losing a Battleground for 10k AP every time is even easier.

TBH I dont get why you dont get at least 1 per dungeon boss and a geode for the final boss every dungeon.
Then you should get at least 5 per undaunted quest and up to 10 if you did it on veteran, keys should also have a chance at rewarding a geode as well.
Then Geode's should be fixed so they give more than 1 crystal, I have done more pledges than I can count since release and the most crystals I have EVER received in one go was 3 out of a 1-10 geode what kind of BS odds are those.

Transairion wrote: »

Again, what is the logic is a Random Daily dungeon only giving a single Crystal but the equivalent PvP daily gives 4 at minimum? In my experience the RotW Geode gives 5 stones almost as often as 4 (the minimum), while the PvE Veteran Geode (purple) has never given me higher than 1 Stone. It's pretty sad given it's a "better" Geode.

Because in PVE you are also rewarded set pieces, monster helms and undaunted keys - not just transmute crystals. Each of those pieces has a chance to drop in the trait you require.

In PVP you get pretty much zilch other than the crystals. Sure AP can buy monster helms, but only in one trait and only at a rate of two pieces per week.

Is there any harm in giving PvE the same Geode for the dailies, instead of just nerfing PvP?

The risk is, if you make it too easy for PVEers to get the items pieces they want, then you take away the incentive for players to grind dailies. If players aren't doing daily content, then ZOS run the risk of them going else where which breaks the MMO 'spell' that keeps players logging in day in day out. It also makes it harder for players who are still doing dailies to get groups. Could ZOS afford to give PVEers more? Possibly. But I can understand why they treat PVP and PVE different when it comes to the number of transmute crystals they give out.

(To be clear, I don't necessarily agree with this - just pointing out how I think ZOS see it. I would prefer a token system and content that was rewarding and varied enough in and of itself that players would keep doing it without the need for a grind, but I don't think there has been an MMO that has reached those idilic heights yet has there?)

Entering PvP, hitting stone threshold then leaving isn't really what you want hundreds of players to be doing regularly.

Yep, that's the risk but judging from server population sizes since clockwork city was introduced (PC NA), it doesn't seem to be a factor that is negatively effecting PVP.

OK, they nerf PVP. Who's happy now? PVP? NO. PVP? No.

Right now you can create a new character, level it to 10, pick a campaign, do the training quests and have 4 to 25 (though I have only seen 20 in a RFTW geode) crystals in about an hour and a half. Then at least 4 per day for about 9K gold for less than an hour worth of repairing keep walls and doors. No PVP involved. Plenty of time to read and laugh at zone chat. Then head back to PVE and enjoy what you like.

After the patch, you won't have anywhere you can get crystals that quickly.

Again, who's happy now?

I PVP and PVE.

The move to stop each character getting the guaranteed drop from rewards from the worthy will make things a lot better.

Other than that I think things are actually about right. The only real inconsistency is in the end of campaign pay day. Maybe the solution is an end of month payday for PVE players that have completed x No. of pledges that month? I don't know.

2 Things I struggle with though:

1: regardless of whether you hate PVP or not I cant understand how 10minutes a day to get 25kAP is really that bad. It takes longer to do a dungeon and do you really enjoy every dungeon that's the pledge? And seriously 10 minutes is all it takes. You don't even need a group. I just jump on my nightblade healer. Check the map and find the fight. Travel there. Stack up behind my side and lay down refreshing paths and clock up AP from heals. Then us destroy ults and AOE's to tag as many enemies over the top so I get AP for the kills. simples.

2: transmutation crystals are a secondary mechanic. I.e the last resort when the farm doesn't work. You shouldn't need that many. I accept that there has been a bit of demand given people want nirnhoned weapons and they don't drop. But at the end of the day we went from having an endless grind to getting a trait change system which is a big plus. But honestly if drops increase whats the point? the may as well just ask what trait you want when the item drops and save all the messing around.

All in all I think the system works pretty well. Not perfect but it never will be.

Calboy wrote: »

And here we go again. Pve care bears ruining it for everyone else once again because they were missing out. Well guess what, now we All miss out.

You seriously don't see the issue between the time invested versus the return? The OP might be a care bear but at least he can do 1st grade math.

I personally agree with the Rewards for the Worthy PTS changes but am advocating for an increase from 5 to 10 per account. That being said I see now problem with giving PvE'ers a boost from completing dungeons as well. It's not like there is a limited pool of crystals and giving PvE'ers more somehow takes them away from PvP'ers. In the end its about maintaining a balance between time invested and reward earned.

As the OP, I did not intend to make this a 'PvE vs. PvP' argument. I am sorry it has devolved into such.

I did not want the drop rate for my PvP brethren to change, I wanted the PvE drop rate increased to match. If PvE gets a Gold Geode for the first Veteran Random Dungeon per day, everyone wins. This is what it should be.

Random Daily Veteran Dungeon [Once per day]: Gold Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon Hardmode: Purple Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon: Blue Geode
Undaunted Pledge: Blue Geode
Random Daily Normal Dungeon [Once per day]: Purple Geode
Random Normal Dungeon: Green Geode

I don't work for ZOS but I think this is fair.

I will be honest, I am an older player, pushing 40. (Yikes) I am a career healer, it's what I love to do. I did it on WoW and now here. I have one max-level character. I also have a wife and two kids and a job. I'm fortunate that I get a few hours every other day to play and I simply don't have the time to do much besides dungeons, usually with PUG's. It works out because that is what I enjoy. (And occasionally playing with my 60 year-old parents who are both higher CP than me.) Call me a scrub or tryhard, I don't care. I enjoy the game the way I play.

Transmutation Crystals have a purpose. They were created to be an alternate method of getting the correct trait on a piece of gear without grinding for weeks at a time. My view is that in PvE, this purpose is imbalanced, as it take longer to farm the crystals than it does to farm the gear with the correct trait. Since the crystals have been around I've transmuted one item. One. I've only collected maybe 57 total crystals, and a large portion of that was the one day a friend invited me to run around zerging in Cyrodil. I had never been there before and all of a sudden my mail is filling up with these goodie bags. The other day I went into a BG and won somehow and I received a gold geode.

The time-to-crystal ratio is where the imbalance lies.

I am sorry they are nerfing the drop rate in PvP. Apparently ZOS intended for the crystals to be rarer overall between both communities. I still disagree with the rarity.

Also, I would say some of the comments here have been less than respectful and I would hope that we could keep a certain level of civility.

Regards,

~ J. J.

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

I did not want the drop rate for my PvP brethren to change, I wanted the PvE drop rate increased to match. If PvE gets a Gold Geode for the first Veteran Random Dungeon per day, everyone wins. This is what it should be.

Random Daily Veteran Dungeon [Once per day]: Gold Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon Hardmode: Purple Geode
Random Veteran Dungeon: Blue Geode
Undaunted Pledge: Blue Geode
Random Daily Normal Dungeon [Once per day]: Purple Geode
Random Normal Dungeon: Green Geode

I don't work for ZOS but I think this is fair.

That would make it much better and feel more even. So don't change the pvp setup... just add a bit to the existing pve rewards.

esotoon wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

That would make it much better and feel more even. So don't change the pvp setup... just add a bit to the existing pve rewards.

In the spirit of making things feel even.

Can the PVPers be given 4 monster helms, 8 Undaunted Keys, 20 random dungeon armor pieces, and a few dungeon jewellery pieces each day for free as part of their rewards too please?

Sure, i wouldn't care to be honest. I actually don't understand why they DONT get bits and pieces of those in their rewards. At the least, put some undaunted keys in the end of campaign rewards. Helms are super easy to get but shoulders can suck to find.

but to even the trade again i would call for allowing the alliance skill lines to be leveled by pve methods.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

but to even the trade again i would call for allowing the alliance skill lines to be leveled by pve methods.

OK, so long as PVPers get the Undaunted, Mages Guild and Fighters guild skill lines, all the lore books, plus the (approx) 300 skill points available in PVE.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

These negotiations are becoming extremely one-sided....but i'm in.

LOL they are a little, so I will throw in the 65 skill points from Cyrodiil, and all the PVP based dyes and achievement furnishings, to seal the deal.

Hey ZOS - this matter has now been settled amicably between the once divided player base. Please close the thread and implement these changes post-haste!