After reading the comments in this thread, especially coming from pvpers, I'm nearly sure that Zaan will be nerfed so hard that nobody will be using this. So history will repeat. As it always does with regard to pts changes where pvp is the reason of many sets being completely useless in pve.

And it is so sad because regarding monster sets we've been using the same ones for around 1,5 year now (since One Tamriel when sets like Ilambris or Grothdarr were introduced). We need something fresh! If Zaan is overperforming in 1v1 pvp, then it needs a rework of how it functions but NOT a nerf in terms of overall dmg potential. E.g. increase the number of ticks but lower the dmg of each one which will result in the same overall dmg as it is now but will be easier to avoid/counteract in pvp.

For PvE Zaan is great only for specific builds and specific fights. For example I wouldnt use it in dungeons where mobs are running around and you care about aoe dmg more than single target.

And also a small request to ZOS with regard to the look of sets from Fang Lair. I mean they look really nice but given that the motif will be avaiable to obtain in a future update soon or later (so we will have a chance to use it in the outfit system), could you please remove that strap on the chest on male version? We already have enough of these in a form of pirate costumes etc. At least remove it on light armor version and leave it on medium armor so people will have a choice.

SodanTok wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

After reading the comments in this thread, especially coming from pvpers, I'm nearly sure that Zaan will be nerfed so hard that nobody will be using this. So history will repeat. As it always does with regard to pts changes where pvp is the reason of many sets being completely useless in pve.

And it is so sad because regarding monster sets we've been using the same ones for around 1,5 year now (since One Tamriel when sets like Ilambris or Grothdarr were introduced). We need something fresh! If Zaan is overperforming in 1v1 pvp, then it needs a rework of how it functions but NOT a nerf in terms of overall dmg potential. E.g. increase the number of ticks but lower the dmg of each one which will result in the same overall dmg as it is now but will be easier to avoid/counteract in pvp.

For PvE Zaan is great only for specific builds and specific fights. For example I wouldnt use it in dungeons where mobs are running around and you care about aoe dmg more than single target.

And also a small request to ZOS with regard to the look of sets from Fang Lair. I mean they look really nice but given that the motif will be avaiable to obtain in a future update soon or later (so we will have a chance to use it in the outfit system), could you please remove that strap on the chest on male version? We already have enough of these in a form of pirate costumes etc. At least remove it on light armor version and leave it on medium armor so people will have a choice.

I sometimes wonder if PVE players that see no problem in Zaan simply failed at basic math or they for real just want bigger numbers and see no problem in set that drastically outperforms any other.

In PvE this set is very situational and have many drawbacks. In terms of dmg it is pure single target so it is obvious it will (and should) deal more dmg to one target than e.g. Grothdarr. Ofc you can cheese target dummies with it but dummies are no longer a viable way to measure your dps anyway.

SodanTok wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

After reading the comments in this thread, especially coming from pvpers, I'm nearly sure that Zaan will be nerfed so hard that nobody will be using this. So history will repeat. As it always does with regard to pts changes where pvp is the reason of many sets being completely useless in pve.

And it is so sad because regarding monster sets we've been using the same ones for around 1,5 year now (since One Tamriel when sets like Ilambris or Grothdarr were introduced). We need something fresh! If Zaan is overperforming in 1v1 pvp, then it needs a rework of how it functions but NOT a nerf in terms of overall dmg potential. E.g. increase the number of ticks but lower the dmg of each one which will result in the same overall dmg as it is now but will be easier to avoid/counteract in pvp.

For PvE Zaan is great only for specific builds and specific fights. For example I wouldnt use it in dungeons where mobs are running around and you care about aoe dmg more than single target.

And also a small request to ZOS with regard to the look of sets from Fang Lair. I mean they look really nice but given that the motif will be avaiable to obtain in a future update soon or later (so we will have a chance to use it in the outfit system), could you please remove that strap on the chest on male version? We already have enough of these in a form of pirate costumes etc. At least remove it on light armor version and leave it on medium armor so people will have a choice.

I sometimes wonder if PVE players that see no problem in Zaan simply failed at basic math or they for real just want bigger numbers and see no problem in set that drastically outperforms any other.

In PvE this set is very situational and have many drawbacks. In terms of dmg it is pure single target so it is obvious it will (and should) deal more dmg to one target than e.g. Grothdarr. Ofc you can cheese target dummies with it but dummies are no longer a viable way to measure your dps anyway.

Looks like it is the first option then! Unless more damage means it is suddenly ok to be 5 times better

Zaan was clearly designed to help mag builds deal more dmg in single target fights, i.e. to help reduce differences in this regard between stam and mag in trials. But it also has many drawbacks (sacrifices) like shorter range or no aoe. It is not like that it will be the best for every scenario.

I just don't want it to get the same treatment as e.g. asylum staves got on the last pts when in the sake of pvp the imperfect versions became utterly useless.

Make2k15 wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

Zaan was clearly designed to help mag builds deal more dmg in single target fights, i.e. to help reduce differences in this regard between stam and mag in trials. But it also has many drawbacks (sacrifices) like shorter range or no aoe. It is not like that it will be the best for every scenario.

I just don't want it to get the same treatment as e.g. asylum staves got on the last pts when in the sake of pvp the imperfect versions became utterly useless.

I have completed both new dungeons on vet with my mag sorc using this set and I think this monster set is really fun to use atm.. Potentially OP, but I think it requires some skill to get most out of it in real fight situation which I like. IMO The Zaan design is spot on for PVE right now.

Even though I don't do pvp I'm aware of how op this set could potentially be in certain duel situations were opponent is stunned and(/or) snared. However, what I think they should do rather than nerf this set for pve as well as for pvp is to redesign the AVA Battle Spirit buff to allow skill specific damage reductions. The Battle Spirit damage reduction is 50% damage reduction for all skills atm.:

Battle Spirit:
"It gives the following boons:

-Increase Health by 5000.
-Reduce damage taken by 50%.
-Reduce healing received and damage shield strength by 50%.
-Increase range of abilities with greater than 28m range by 8m in Cyrodiil."

https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/33692/~/how-do-i-turn-off-battle-spirit%3F

If battle spirit buff would allow skill specific damage reductions all what would be needed to do in this case is to add more dmg reduction for this specific Zaan monster set skill like 75% damage reduction or something like that.

Or just make them crit again but reduce the base damage a little of them. Crit can be reduced with pvp gear but right now proc sets can not be reduced by one of the most important stats in cyro.

Tyrion87 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Tyrion87 wrote: »

After reading the comments in this thread, especially coming from pvpers, I'm nearly sure that Zaan will be nerfed so hard that nobody will be using this. So history will repeat. As it always does with regard to pts changes where pvp is the reason of many sets being completely useless in pve.

And it is so sad because regarding monster sets we've been using the same ones for around 1,5 year now (since One Tamriel when sets like Ilambris or Grothdarr were introduced). We need something fresh! If Zaan is overperforming in 1v1 pvp, then it needs a rework of how it functions but NOT a nerf in terms of overall dmg potential. E.g. increase the number of ticks but lower the dmg of each one which will result in the same overall dmg as it is now but will be easier to avoid/counteract in pvp.

For PvE Zaan is great only for specific builds and specific fights. For example I wouldnt use it in dungeons where mobs are running around and you care about aoe dmg more than single target.

And also a small request to ZOS with regard to the look of sets from Fang Lair. I mean they look really nice but given that the motif will be avaiable to obtain in a future update soon or later (so we will have a chance to use it in the outfit system), could you please remove that strap on the chest on male version? We already have enough of these in a form of pirate costumes etc. At least remove it on light armor version and leave it on medium armor so people will have a choice.

I sometimes wonder if PVE players that see no problem in Zaan simply failed at basic math or they for real just want bigger numbers and see no problem in set that drastically outperforms any other.

In PvE this set is very situational and have many drawbacks. In terms of dmg it is pure single target so it is obvious it will (and should) deal more dmg to one target than e.g. Grothdarr. Ofc you can cheese target dummies with it but dummies are no longer a viable way to measure your dps anyway.

Looks like it is the first option then! Unless more damage means it is suddenly ok to be 5 times better

Zaan was clearly designed to help mag builds deal more dmg in single target fights, i.e. to help reduce differences in this regard between stam and mag in trials. But it also has many drawbacks (sacrifices) like shorter range or no aoe. It is not like that it will be the best for every scenario.

I just don't want it to get the same treatment as e.g. asylum staves got on the last pts when in the sake of pvp the imperfect versions became utterly useless.

So they designed set that is better than any stamina set .... on stamina folks... to help put magicka DD in better place instead of doing literally anything else? Do I understand your logic right?

This is not for the sake of PVP. This set is outperforming in PVE much more than it will ever be even issue in PVP (except duels)

Thurvokun (Monster) almost useless in PVE, due to better sets available.

Regarding PVP it will not be used much due to its growing poll not causing snare, very low damage and can be easily dodged

This set will be junk!

What about making Zaan interruptible? That wouldn't affect PvE and fix the burst in PvP

Plague Slinger
In its current form the set is quite bad, due to lack of range, targets hit, low damage done and slow projectile as you can see in my video that I link down below.

Suggestions:
Increase the max range and make it so the projectile travels faster. Currently you do one dodgeroll, the poison ball will miss and you are then out of range and the corpse does not cause any threat whatsoever anymore.

or

Increase the radius and cap the max targets hit at 6 people instead of only 1. This would make it a stationary set that could be used at choke points in keeps for example. And that would also make the set more usefull in PvE as you can use it for trash fights.

https://youtu.be/a4epB2X4Dpw

Zer0oo wrote: »

Feedback for Zaan:

Pve:

Zaan is the strongest monster set for pure "training dummy" fights(no mechanics and boss does not move)

After i tried it in the new dungeons the set was no as good as it used to be because of the max range. In a fight with movement this set is actually balanced and if there are a lot of mechanics the set became useless. Also you notice in trash-fights that it is pure single target.


PvP:

LOL. BIS on every class that can force your opponent not to get get out of range with snares and since almost every class already reduces your opponent movement speed by 90% because snares are everywhere and zos refused to balance them.
And if you think this set is op in cp pvp just wait for the no cp battleground fun.

So its OP in PvP but at the same time terrible in PvE. So of course when they listen to the crying and nerf it into the ground its going to be utter garbage in PvE to the point where everyone just destroys the set items whenever theyre looted.

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Caluurion’s is actually pretty good on target dummy (getting better numbers than with Julianos). It's been a while since we've had a decent new magicka set. Please don't nerf it.

I also seem to get higher dps on a magblade than with julianos

Stamden wrote: »

Make2k15 wrote: »

Savos_Saren wrote: »

glavius wrote: »

Zaan (Monster)
Spell Critical
When you deal Critical Damage with a Light or Heavy Attack to a nearby enemy, a beam of fire will connect you to your enemy. The beam deals 3440 Flame Damage every 1 second for 5 seconds. Every second, this damage increases by 50%. The beam is broken if the enemy moves 10 meters away from you. This effect can occur every 15 seconds.

Noone at ZOS did the math on this set I assume???

34400 or 45365 damage proc over 5 seconds before cp modifiers (depending on calculation method)

That’s if the enemy stands within 10meters of you (almost a roll dodge away) for 5 seconds... and if you’re light/heavy attacking enemies within melee range with a staff. This set is kinda wonky, honestly.

It’ll probably be ignored and people will continue to use Valkyn, Grothdar, or Slimecraw.

Right, I think if this goes to live as it is now it will be probably a BIS in many PVE builds It did 3.5k dps to test dummy in my quick test (9.5% of total dmg). You might think that the relatively short 10m radius is a bad thing for ranged dd, but actually the good thing about that is that you can time when the proc happens (e.g. to burst down a mob) by first doing dmg farther away and then come closer than 10m for 5 sec to do the burst dmg when needed (one proc did 50k dmg).

It's about time melee range DPS have an actual numerical advantage over ranged DPS.

Bro... Its BiS even on stamina builds. Something's got to be wrong with that no?

Joosef_Kivikilpi wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Why do you keep releasing such bad medium armor sets?

Trappings of Invigoration (Medium)
(2) Stamina Recovery
(3) Max Stamina
(4) Stamina Recovery
(5) When you cast an ability while under 33% Stamina, you restore 9000 Stamina. This effect can occur once every 1 minute.

Medium armor builds did not need a stamina version of Lich, there's already plenty of good, better options for sustain (not that sustain matters in PvP when you're dead to undodgeable damage anyway long before stam pool drains out).

Plague Slinger (Medium)
(2) Weapon Damage
(3) Max Health
(4) Weapon Damage(5) When you take damage, you summon a Skeever corpse which will launch a poison ball that deals 5160 Poison Damage every 1.5 seconds at the nearest enemy for 6 seconds. This effect can occur once every 15 seconds.

There's a good reason (well, multiple good reasons) nobody uses the Unfathomable Darkness set from previous patch: sustained damage isn't good in PvP, especially on squishy medium armor builds.

This set basicly suffers from the same problems as Unfathomable Darkness, and I'm willing to bet those poison balls are going to break my own cloak, just like the birds do with Unfathomable Darkness.

Thurvokun (Monster)
Max Health
When a nearby enemy damages you, summon a growing pool of desecrated bile for 8 seconds. Enemies in the bile receive 430 Disease Damage every 1 second and are afflicted with Minor Maim and Minor Defile, reducing their damage done and healing received by 15%. This effect can occur once every 8 seconds.

And this is probably the worst offender... do you really expect people to stand in that puddle? And 430 damage... that's like no damage at all. I'm going to log on PTS soon, and unless this puddle has like a 10m radius & snares/roots people, I'm going to be extremely disappointed. Why would anyone slot this instead of Selene, Troll King etc?


Meanwhile, light & heavy armor once again get all the sweet sets.
Not surprised, just disappointed.

Thorvokun... it's called a PVE set for tanking. Not everything is made for PVP.

Thorvokun is crap set comparing others!