Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Add onto that, PVP sets can all be bought from other players I believe, so it's much easier to just buy an item with the wrong trait on it then transmute it into a BiS item. You can't do that with dungeon or trial sets.

Just to give you some context, rather than try and make up a a percentage:

Of the 19 current PVP builds on both Deltia and Alcast's website, only one build uses only PVP armor sets (if you exclude Monster helms). And that is a very specific bow gank build. Every other build requires PVE sets.

So the fact that you can buy PVP sets doesn't factor into it.

kargen27 wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Well thanks to you and others complaining and crying to no end, instead of taking advantage of it, it’s now going to be nerfed to a maximum of one crystal per account per day. Great job. People always have to ruin the good things in this game. We finally have ONE thing that’s easier to acquire via PvP and y’all have to go ahead and *** it up.

Back to the OP. That fifty at a clip happens once a month for reaching a certain tier in PvP. Doing pledges on one character if you skip the DLC pledge gets you sixty in one month. Throw in a trial and the DLC and an active end game PvE'r does about as well as an active PvP'r in a month. With the changes PvE comes out quite a bit ahead.

Don't use common sense and basic math, Kargen! It will confuse and frighten those who just see one big lump sum of crystals and nothing else.

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Back to the OP. That fifty at a clip happens once a month for reaching a certain tier in PvP.

I was told the 7-Day campaigns give the same thing? Is that not true?

Not true. It's 10 crystals at the end of a seven day campaign (which is less than what you would get running pledges and daily random dungeons every day for seven days.

Guys, seriously: stop getting so hung up on the end-of-campaign lump sums. If you PVE regularly and do all of the PVE content that rewards transmutation crystals, YOU WILL EARN AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT, JUST IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH/WEEK -- especially now that the RotW mail exploit is being fixed. And if you want to maximize your crystals? Suck it up and do enough PVP on even ONE character per month while doing all the PVE things you enjoy. There's plenty of stuff in this game that I'm less than enthused about that I do anyway because it benefits my characters.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't use common sense and basic math, Kargen! It will confuse and frighten those who just see one big lump sum of crystals and nothing else.


Guys, seriously: stop getting so hung up on the end-of-campaign lump sums. If you PVE regularly and do all of the PVE content that rewards transmutation crystals, YOU WILL EARN AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT, JUST IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH/WEEK -- especially now that the RotW mail exploit is being fixed. And if you want to maximize your crystals? Suck it up and do enough PVP on even ONE character per month while doing all the PVE things you enjoy. There's plenty of stuff in this game that I'm less than enthused about that I do anyway because it benefits my characters.

Maybe before you start touting the importance of doing math, you should think about how much time it takes to get 25k AP vs doing every single pledge and trial each month. The comparison, if you actually did that math, would be so vastly disproportional that you would immediately shut up and try to fade quietly from the conversation.

Yeah, how much time does it takes anyways ? because you're assuming that a random scrublet zerg surfing will get 25k AP in minutes, while it's probably more accurate to say they will get them in 3 to 4 hours. Have you ever actually done that ? Do you have numbers ?

I do, I've done it. I have an argonian tank, not geared, with the PvE morphs, really struggling to get to rank 6 of AW, and that's despite playing in Sotha Sil, on EP side (which is pretty much always the largest population there). By comparison, running solo or small group with my DC toon, I get much more AP. I mean, there's the bonus for lower pop, sure, and the bonus from Breton, alright, but still... On one I only do zerg surfing on a massive population, and struggle to get AP, on the other I play solo or small group and get hundreds thousands AP... uhm

Every time you kill a player the AP reward gets divided between all the people that participated. Every time you die you have to wait for someone to ress you, put up a camp, or ress at the nearest keep and run back there.

The only ones making AP reliably in large groups are ballgroups and those are hardly scrublets (some are, but that's another argument).

Are you sure you have your math right ? cause it seems to me it's mostly hearsay.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't use common sense and basic math, Kargen! It will confuse and frighten those who just see one big lump sum of crystals and nothing else.


Guys, seriously: stop getting so hung up on the end-of-campaign lump sums. If you PVE regularly and do all of the PVE content that rewards transmutation crystals, YOU WILL EARN AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT, JUST IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH/WEEK -- especially now that the RotW mail exploit is being fixed. And if you want to maximize your crystals? Suck it up and do enough PVP on even ONE character per month while doing all the PVE things you enjoy. There's plenty of stuff in this game that I'm less than enthused about that I do anyway because it benefits my characters.

Maybe before you start touting the importance of doing math, you should think about how much time it takes to get 25k AP vs doing every single pledge and trial each month. The comparison, if you actually did that math, would be so vastly disproportional that you would immediately shut up and try to fade quietly from the conversation.

If you think it's that quick and easy to get 25k AP, maybe you should shut up and do it instead of filling all these buckets of salt.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't use common sense and basic math, Kargen! It will confuse and frighten those who just see one big lump sum of crystals and nothing else.


Guys, seriously: stop getting so hung up on the end-of-campaign lump sums. If you PVE regularly and do all of the PVE content that rewards transmutation crystals, YOU WILL EARN AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT, JUST IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH/WEEK -- especially now that the RotW mail exploit is being fixed. And if you want to maximize your crystals? Suck it up and do enough PVP on even ONE character per month while doing all the PVE things you enjoy. There's plenty of stuff in this game that I'm less than enthused about that I do anyway because it benefits my characters.

Maybe before you start touting the importance of doing math, you should think about how much time it takes to get 25k AP vs doing every single pledge and trial each month. The comparison, if you actually did that math, would be so vastly disproportional that you would immediately shut up and try to fade quietly from the conversation.

Yeah, how much time does it takes anyways ? because you're assuming that a random scrublet zerg surfing will get 25k AP in minutes, while it's probably more accurate to say they will get them in 3 to 4 hours. Have you ever actually done that ? Do you have numbers ?

I do, I've done it. I have an argonian tank, not geared, with the PvE morphs, really struggling to get to rank 6 of AW, and that's despite playing in Sotha Sil, on EP side (which is pretty much always the largest population there). By comparison, running solo or small group with my DC toon, I get much more AP. I mean, there's the bonus for lower pop, sure, and the bonus from Breton, alright, but still... On one I only do zerg surfing on a massive population, and struggle to get AP, on the other I play solo or small group and get hundreds thousands AP... uhm

Every time you kill a player the AP reward gets divided between all the people that participated. Every time you die you have to wait for someone to ress you, put up a camp, or ress at the nearest keep and run back there.

The only ones making AP reliably in large groups are ballgroups and those are hardly scrublets (some are, but that's another argument).

Are you sure you have your math right ? cause it seems to me it's mostly hearsay.

Yes, I have done it. As someone that passionately hates PVP and has no gear for it, I can zergsurf Vivec and have my first RotW mail sent in two hours of play or less. Capturing one keep gets you like 1/3rd of the way there.

Doing what you suggest (all of the pledges on vet hardmode for purple geode and every trial on at least normal for 5 per trial) would take DOZENS of hours for (as you put it) 60 stones, whereas 2 hours or less in PVP gets you 4-25 right there and then another 50 in 30 days GUARANTEED.

Soon to be 4 to 25 (with the same chances to get the 25 rewards as the chances you have to get the 10 from the pledges) per day, per account, plus 50 in 30 days.

I can run pledges with my friends in 30 minutes each for a total of 3 geodes in 1 hour and 30 minutes, right away. I can run vMA on my own in 50 minutes, for 4 more, right away. I can run vDSA with my friends in 1 hour for 5 more right away. Also I run weeklies every week for 10 more. I mean... see the trend here ?

Also, it went from "You only need to join a zerg and you get 25k AP in a couple minutes, any scrublets can do it" to "It take me 2 hours"... ok, that gives me confidence in your argument...

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Just stop trying to defend the disgusting imbalance, the math stacks up horrendously in my favor, not to mention the difficulty of Ride Around Cyrodill vs Complete Vet hard Mode Pledges Including DLCs.

If you think it's that quick and easy to get 25k AP, maybe you should shut up and do it instead of filling all these buckets of salt.

2 hours per character still amounts to 6+ hours of time I'm spending bored out of my mind instead of actually doing something I want to do with my game time.

Rejoice, as soon as the next update hits, you won't have to, only the first RotW per day, per account will give you stones, and they will probably be 5 or 6 tops. Rewards from PvE have been left untouched. A great evil has been vanquished!

Ya happy ?

That still won't help you get crystals though. I suggest you work on your build/rotation and join a guild to do PvE content you don't have access to because you lack the ability to complete it.

Hope this helps.
Have a nice day.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Don't use common sense and basic math, Kargen! It will confuse and frighten those who just see one big lump sum of crystals and nothing else.


Guys, seriously: stop getting so hung up on the end-of-campaign lump sums. If you PVE regularly and do all of the PVE content that rewards transmutation crystals, YOU WILL EARN AN EQUIVALENT AMOUNT, JUST IN SMALLER INCREMENTS THROUGHOUT THE MONTH/WEEK -- especially now that the RotW mail exploit is being fixed. And if you want to maximize your crystals? Suck it up and do enough PVP on even ONE character per month while doing all the PVE things you enjoy. There's plenty of stuff in this game that I'm less than enthused about that I do anyway because it benefits my characters.

Maybe before you start touting the importance of doing math, you should think about how much time it takes to get 25k AP vs doing every single pledge and trial each month. The comparison, if you actually did that math, would be so vastly disproportional that you would immediately shut up and try to fade quietly from the conversation.

Yeah, how much time does it takes anyways ? because you're assuming that a random scrublet zerg surfing will get 25k AP in minutes, while it's probably more accurate to say they will get them in 3 to 4 hours. Have you ever actually done that ? Do you have numbers ?

I do, I've done it. I have an argonian tank, not geared, with the PvE morphs, really struggling to get to rank 6 of AW, and that's despite playing in Sotha Sil, on EP side (which is pretty much always the largest population there). By comparison, running solo or small group with my DC toon, I get much more AP. I mean, there's the bonus for lower pop, sure, and the bonus from Breton, alright, but still... On one I only do zerg surfing on a massive population, and struggle to get AP, on the other I play solo or small group and get hundreds thousands AP... uhm

Every time you kill a player the AP reward gets divided between all the people that participated. Every time you die you have to wait for someone to ress you, put up a camp, or ress at the nearest keep and run back there.

The only ones making AP reliably in large groups are ballgroups and those are hardly scrublets (some are, but that's another argument).

Are you sure you have your math right ? cause it seems to me it's mostly hearsay.

2 hours per character still amounts to 6+ hours of time I'm spending bored out of my mind instead of actually doing something I want to do with my game time.

Do you think I enjoy running dungeons on my PVP characters (or my PVE characters, for that matter) with people who think that "DPS" means "spamming light bow attacks with the occasional snipe thrown in for good measure"? Of course I don't, but I do it anyway because I need to level up Undaunted and grind for monster sets on my PVP characters as well.

If you can't stand PVP and aren't prepared to put in the time, don't do it and simply deal with not having 50 additional crystals per month. Same goes for any PVPer who hates dungeons -- they have to deal with not having Undaunted Mettle and fewer opportunities to get the monster sets they need.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

See? See everyone? I told you that these forums will degenerate over time, and become more and more toxic. It’s only a matter of time before it becomes harder to differentiate these forums and those of a FPS or MOBA game.

a random Ch4mp appears.

SaKGEE uses Humor.

It's super effective!

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Go back and quote where I said a couple minutes. I'll wait.

Yeah, you go ahead and act all high and mighty because you can complete PVE content that literally only about 3% of the game's population can, that sure validates your case.

You're right, you said a couple hours, I misread, I apologize.

You're still wrong on the 3%, and I'm not acting high and mighty, I gave you an advice that could help you do what you can't currently do: join a guild, be social, don't pug. Pugging is not reliable.

If you feel offended by it..

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Aisle9 wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SaKGEE wrote: »

See? See everyone? I told you that these forums will degenerate over time, and become more and more toxic. It’s only a matter of time before it becomes harder to differentiate these forums and those of a FPS or MOBA game.

a random Ch4mp appears.

SaKGEE uses Humor.

It's super effective!

I see that Penny Arcade’s “G.I.F.T.” still holds true; even on these very forums. It is such a shame that the online disinhibition effect raises its ugly head yet again for the world to see.

Try laughing once in a while, people that laugh more live longer.

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys we get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets we get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.
It only takes a few hours' worth of dungeons to get 6+ keys and the likelihood you'll get the shoulder you want is dependant on which chest it belongs to.
How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

Monster helmets are pretty easy to get however never got an spell power cure resto staff even if run WGT +50 times, finally got one from keys. Vet DLC are not very pugable.

Note that drop rates is on purpose to get players to do content, lots of more do normal trials for one. often the 3 craglorn ones in a setting.
End of 30 day campaign soon so will do pvp this weekend

I'm not annoyed by the change to the PVP drop rate. When my level 4 character who'd never been to Cyrodiil pulled a gold geode out of a rewards of the worthy - 5 crystals, if I recall correctly - I assumed it was an exploit taking advantage of the broken mail system and reported it as such. ZOS' Support Team replied that it was an exploit and asked me not to do it again.

So I've always assumed it was an exploit that would get fixed.

The current solution has its own issues: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/389030/issues-with-the-rewards-of-the-worthy-exploit-fix

That being said, I haven't been lacking for crystals. That's because I can earn 4-5 rewards of the worthy each day I play PVP for a couple of hours. I also have two characters that I can earn the basic 100K needed to get to tier 3 of the end of campaign rewards. Only one of those players gets played enough to earn the extra geode for the leaderboard ranking, but that's still a lot of crystals.

As someone who plays both PVP and PVE, I'm not going to lack for crystals in Update 17. I don't lack now and I'm not using the exploit, just getting rewards of the worthy hand over fist like a decent PVPer should.

Waffennacht wrote: »

No, you do get your wish that PvP is getting the shaft once again,

But no, all you guys managed to do is get the PvP drop nerfed, you will not receive any more

but seriously now... how can you NOT see that drop as a problem that HEAVILY favored the PVP crowd?
But go on... keep telling the PVE people how much they affect PVP. Are you kidding me??

Daily Pledges -> Purple uncracked Geode, possible reward between 1 and 10 crystals.
vDSA -> 5 crystals
vMA -> 4 crystals
Weekly vet and normal trials -> 5 crystals
Leaderboard score for trials -> 5 crystals
Random normal dungeons -> green geode, 1 crystal

Whoever brought this up as "proof PvE gets more", keep in mind a certain skill level is required for all the bolded examples: and frankly I think we can agree most average ESO players are not capable of freefarming vMA or vDSA, let alone Veteran Trial leaderboard scores.

Normal pledges also only award Green Geodes, so the average Normal-completing PvE player will usually earn 4 Crystals per day (Random Normal + all normal Pledges). As skill level increases, so does reward but Veteran Dungeons are kind of a bad example since their Purple Geode often only drops the one Crystal.


On the flipside, earning the 20,000 to 25,000 AP required (the latter for End of Month reward) can be done even without any support: after all, taking resources gives 1600 AP for capture and Keeps give 6400(?) AP for their capture. It can be done on a fresh level 10 without any gear if you follow the crowd, or have a stronger player helping in the case of resources. Unlike PvE this fluctuates with player actions, if enemy factions are preventing any kind of captures which I understand.

Also keep in mind on (current) PTS, Battlegrounds will now give a whopping 10,000 AP per game (coming dead last): so that's 2 Battlegrounds per RoTW Bag. Probably why they went ahead and changed RotW to account-wide, if I'm honest.

Increased the Alliance Point rewards for your team’s placement in Battlegrounds. This equates to the following:
100% increase in AP if your team comes in first place, or a new total of 12,000 AP
175% increase in AP if your team comes in second place, or a new total of 11,000 AP
400% increase in AP if your team comes in third place, or a new total of 10,000 AP

In general though, the effort and skill requirements for reaching maximum PvP stones and maximum PvE stones is really skewed in PvP's favor. Complete scrubs like me who are terrible PvP'ers can, and have been farming Transmutate stones in that content because it's so much easier than something like farming vMA/vDSA or staying on the Vet Trial leaderboards. If you are skilled enough to do so, then good for you, but you're above average and most will still be running Normal or non-DLC Vet Dungeons at best.

Do note: I disagree that RotW is being changed/nerfed as it is, because that gain is fine... but the average PvE'r reward is still a joke. That's why everyone goes into PvP, even if for an hour every month.