Very Frustrated with Transmutation Crystals ZOS (PvE vs. PvP)

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

Hexquisite wrote: »

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 5 per pledge or something like that.

That's what we currently get. For it to be anywhere close to comparable, we would have to get 10 stones per HM Vet pledge completed. That would get us 30 stones for 3+ hours, which would put us in about the same rate as the PVPers that get 4-50 per couple hours (or less) plus another 50 at the end of the month just handed to them.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

This right here tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You HAVE to do the dungeons on veteran and on hard mode to get the purple geode, otherwise you get a crappy blue one. You also said trials instead of dungeons. Trials are completely different, and while it's true that you can get 5 stones per trial per character on normal difficulty, that is not only WEEKLY, but it's also monumentally harder to get a group together to run trials and they are also much longer and/or harder than most dungeons, with only Hel Ra and Asylum being exceptions.

JJMaxx1980 · January 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Sure, I'll just do 32 dungeons a day. Because that's possible.

FloppyTouch · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 5 per pledge or something like that.

That's what we currently get. For it to be anywhere close to comparable, we would have to get 10 stones per HM Vet pledge completed. That would get us 30 stones for 3+ hours, which would put us in about the same rate as the PVPers that get 4-50 per couple hours (or less) plus another 50 at the end of the month just handed to them.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

This right here tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You HAVE to do the dungeons on veteran and on hard mode to get the purple geode, otherwise you get a crappy blue one. You also said trials instead of dungeons. Trials are completely different, and while it's true that you can get 5 stones per trial per character on normal difficulty, that is not only WEEKLY, but it's also monumentally harder to get a group together to run trials and they are also much longer than most dungeons, with only Hel Ra and Asylum being exceptions.

This right hear tells me you can’t read.

esotoon · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

How is this even remotely balanced? PVE players literally can only earn a maximum of 10 at a time, and that's if we basically win the Geode Lottery, as I have personally almost never seen a number higher than 5 in my geodes for doing Vet HM pledges. The vast majority of the time it will be exactly 5 for each pledge, meaning if you can clear all 3 pledges (including the DLC pledges on Vet HM, in other words, NO) on hard mode vet, you will pretty much always get no more than 15 stones per day. That takes HOURS, compared to PVPing long enough to get 20k AP for a reward mail, securing the 50 stones at the end of the month PLUS whatever stones you get in that reward mail, DAILY, PER CHARACTER.

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets PVPers get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

PVPers don't get any of that. The only way they previously had to get the right sets was to do as much Dungeon/Trial content as a PVEer, even though they may hate PVE content. (In the case of monster helms, they have the Golden Vendor, but are reliant on RNG as to which sets are on sale, and even then, only have the option of 2 traits, one of which they have to pay for).

By rewarding the PVP players more geodes, they only need to do a minimal amount of PVE content in order to get enough pieces that they can then transmography.

So if you are going to talk about balance, at least look at the bigger picture rather than focussing only on the geodes. Due to the nature of the rewards, PVEers have far less need of the geodes than the PVPers do.

(And to be clear, I think the balance is out of wack - only it's just like usual, ZOS have attacked the problem with a hammer rather than a scalpel)

FloppyTouch · January 2018

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

You have to wait 30 days to get that big 50

If you do the 3 daily’s plus the normals Random’s on all characters and if you have 8 character you can get 32 a day in pve

Ur lazy that is all

Sure, I'll just do 32 dungeons a day. Because that's possible.

On normal yes it is I did it during that event every day to get the mount and blueprints took about 3 hours

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 5 per pledge or something like that.

That's what we currently get. For it to be anywhere close to comparable, we would have to get 10 stones per HM Vet pledge completed. That would get us 30 stones for 3+ hours, which would put us in about the same rate as the PVPers that get 4-50 per couple hours (or less) plus another 50 at the end of the month just handed to them.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

This right here tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You HAVE to do the dungeons on veteran and on hard mode to get the purple geode, otherwise you get a crappy blue one. You also said trials instead of dungeons. Trials are completely different, and while it's true that you can get 5 stones per trial per character on normal difficulty, that is not only WEEKLY, but it's also monumentally harder to get a group together to run trials and they are also much longer than most dungeons, with only Hel Ra and Asylum being exceptions.

This right hear tells me you can’t read.

Try spelling a 4-letter word properly and get back to me about literacy.

FloppyTouch · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

FloppyTouch wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Hexquisite wrote: »

It is unbalanced. I retraited 2 sets for pvp in 2 days this week just because I wanted to try something new, weapons too. All my crystals come from pvp excpet maybe the 5 I got trying to get Earthgore. Even though I retrait a lot I am often at max crystals and have to save ROTW on bank mules.

PVE should get 5 per pledge or something like that.

That's what we currently get. For it to be anywhere close to comparable, we would have to get 10 stones per HM Vet pledge completed. That would get us 30 stones for 3+ hours, which would put us in about the same rate as the PVPers that get 4-50 per couple hours (or less) plus another 50 at the end of the month just handed to them.

You don’t have to do hard mode vet trials to get them you can do normals that take 10-20mins and get more

My point was th op wants to change a trait on an item

If they farmed normals they could get it in 2 days if they did pvp they would have to wait 30 days

This right here tells me you don't know what you're talking about. You HAVE to do the dungeons on veteran and on hard mode to get the purple geode, otherwise you get a crappy blue one. You also said trials instead of dungeons. Trials are completely different, and while it's true that you can get 5 stones per trial per character on normal difficulty, that is not only WEEKLY, but it's also monumentally harder to get a group together to run trials and they are also much longer than most dungeons, with only Hel Ra and Asylum being exceptions.

This right hear tells me you can’t read.

Try spelling a 4-letter word properly and get back to me about literacy.

Typo I’m on phone

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

Wanna know how many Monster Helms PVPers get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many undaunted keys we get as a reward? 0
Wanna know how many dungeon sets we get as a reward? 0

So yes, whilst PVEers do get far less geodes, whilst doing PVE content you are getting set pieces/monster helms all the time that may have the trait you are after.

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.
It only takes a few hours' worth of dungeons to get 6+ keys and the likelihood you'll get the shoulder you want is dependant on which chest it belongs to.
How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

esotoon · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

It only takes one single 1-2-hour run of a vet dungeon to get a monster helmet you can easily retrait with your absurd PVP stone rate.

And it doesn't take long to get Geode's in PVP, so...

How many dungeon sets are actually run in PVP?

Probably the majority of PVP builds these days require dungeon sets and/or monster helms.

Also, (not) sorry to state facts, but MMOs are almost entirely PVE content. If you hate PVE, why the hell are you playing an MMO?

I play both PVE and PVP.
Other people only play PVE.
Other people only play PVP.

Does this really need to be explained?

I could quite easily turn round and ask you, why if you do not like PVP, are you playing ESO, a game advertised as having both PVE and PVP content? But I won't because a) it gets us no where and b) I respect your right to prefer one form of MMO content over another.

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

ESO is 90% PVE content. I (and the vast majority of the playerbase) play it for that. That question is not one that can be turned around on me.

Huyen · January 2018

Calboy wrote: »

And here we go again. Pve care bears ruining it for everyone else once again because they were missing out. Well guess what, now we All miss out.

You miss the point that the AP rewards for random battlegrounds is getting a huge buff (120% at least) + that you get your precious non-cp battlegrounds back.

Aisle9 · January 2018

PvE:

Daily Pledges -> Purple uncracked Geode, possible reward between 1 and 10 crystals.
vDSA -> 5 crystals
vMA -> 4 crystals
Weekly vet and normal trials -> 5 crystals
Leaderboard score for trials -> 5 crystals
Random normal dungeons -> green geode, 1 crystal

doing all of that: 20 + a minimum of 3 to a maximum of 30 from the 3 undaunted daily pledges.

Last bosses in dungeons have a chance to drop crystals, so a chance to get even more.

By doing only the daily challenges, you have the chance to get 10 + up to 30 (grand total of 40) every day, and that's assuming you only run vDSA and vMA once. Personally, when I needed crystals I ran vMA up to 5 times the same day + daily pledges.

PvP:

End of a 30 days campaign -> 50 crystals (so 50 every month)
End of a 7 days campaign -> 10 crystals (10 every week)
Both rewards are only received IF you joined that campaign and you were awarded at least 30k AP, I think ?

Rewards of the worthy (first per character, soon to be changed to first per account) -> gold uncracked geode, possible reward between 4 and 25. You receive a RotW every 10k AP.

I'm sitting at max stones (I'm not, really) because on top of doing PvP I also do the PvE challenges that give crystals.

Saying that PvP players constantly sit at max stones because the RotW are exploited by getting 50 stones every reward is grossly inaccurate. They sit at max stones because they don't use them.

Please check your facts.

Also, PvE gives more options to farm stones, your inability to complete them doesn't mean PvP players that don't enjoy PvE content have to be forced to do it because you felt uncomfortable.That's the reason they had the chance to get them by doing the content they enjoyed. You were not forced to do anything, you may choose to do it, because you are unable to get them otherwise (as per design, it's not supposed to be easy) and so look at what other people have.

Grow up people.

In any case, don't worry, now everyone will get less. Thank you for that.

esotoon · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

ESO is 90% PVE content. I (and the vast majority of the playerbase) play it for that. That question is not one that can be turned around on me.

Nice non sequitur there.

Ilithyania · January 2018

200 is to low. earn more then I can use.

wish I could sell them.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

ESO is 90% PVE content. I (and the vast majority of the playerbase) play it for that. That question is not one that can be turned around on me.

The fact that the majority of the player base play one type of content (unproved), doesn't mean the other players should receive only 10% of what the rest gets. Only that new content is more likely to be for them. Transmute crystals are not new content. The new DLC with new dungeons is new content.

Have a nice day.

Lady_Lindel · January 2018

Maybe if they weren't bound and you could buy and sell them, this issue wouldn't arise

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

By doing only the daily challenges, you have the chance to get 10 + up to 30 (grand total of 40) every day, and that's assuming you only run vDSA and vMA once. Personally, when I needed crystals I ran vMA up to 5 times the same day + daily pledges.

Not only does this take substantially more time to do than getting 25K AP in PVP, it is also not even a comparison in difficulty. Any random scrublet with not even max mount speed and shoddy gear can run with a zerg in PVP and accomplish nothing themselves, and still get the AP they need for all the stones in just a couple hours or less by capturing keeps. You actually suggesting VDSA and VMA is actually hilarious. Do you know what percentage of the playerbase can't clear VMA at all, much less consistently and quickly?

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

esotoon · January 2018

Lady_Lindel wrote: »

Maybe if they weren't bound and you could buy and sell them, this issue wouldn't arise

If you did that, then ZOS would be forced to reduce the number of crystals for all.

The reason being, the fact that you can't just get the trait you want is one of the driving forces that makes PVEers do repeatable content. If the market suddenly became flooded with geodes, and the PVEers suddenly had the ability to have all the armor/weapons they need in the traits they want, then without some other reward system put in place, they will have no drive to do daily dungeons - especially the less popular ones.

As much as PVEers may think they want loads of Geodes, it's a case of being careful what you wish for.

PVE content is finite. Having daily repeatable and a reason to do them is what keeps PVEers in the game, which is what ZOS wants.

PVPers aren't like that. They can have all the right gear yet it doesn't affect their drive to play, because in PVP every fight they have is still fresh, new and potentially challenging.

So that's why IMHO they have to have artificial barriers of having the crystals bound, and limiting them to a max of 200 at a time.

kharonkleonib16_ESO · January 2018

I rarely get provoked, but this, threadstarter, you make me furious.
You are frustrated that you suddenly have to do something you hate to do, to get what you want???
Well so do I, I have to do ALOT of PvE, to get great PvP-gear. If this game were like other MMO's I have played, I would do PvP to get PvP-gear, but no, not here.
I suck at PvE, I get kicked out of dungeongroups for not doing enough damage, all the time, so the little of proper gear I get is rarely the right one, or right trait or whatever, so I have to continue to do what I hate.
You can do what you love to do, as much as you want, to get the proper gear, and, you get crystals too, on top.
Stop ruining the game for others.

Chilly-McFreeze · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

And how many times have you seen RotW geodes giving out 25 crystals?

Aisle9 · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

By doing only the daily challenges, you have the chance to get 10 + up to 30 (grand total of 40) every day, and that's assuming you only run vDSA and vMA once. Personally, when I needed crystals I ran vMA up to 5 times the same day + daily pledges.

Not only does this take substantially more time to do than getting 25K AP in PVP, it is also not even a comparison in difficulty. Any random scrublet with not even max mount speed and shoddy gear can run with a zerg in PVP and accomplish nothing themselves, and still get the AP they need for all the stones in just a couple hours or less by capturing keeps. You actually suggesting VDSA and VMA is actually hilarious. Do you know what percentage of the playerbase can't clear VMA at all, much less consistently and quickly?

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

As I said, your inability to complete the content doesn't mean the content is not present, unless your point is that things should just be handed to you.

25k AP are easy to do ? then do it.
Ah, wait, no, you won't be joining PvP on principle. So what are we talking about ?
Also, as I said, you don't get 50 stones as soon as you get 25k AP, you have to wait 1 month for the campaign to end, that's one pretty important point that everyone fails to remember.
Related to scrublets zerg surfing, rejoice, with the bomblades resurgence that will happen in the next patch, it won't be a problem anymore, it will be as hard as completing vMA. Ya happy ?

But you are right, I've never seen a purple uncracked geode give more than 6 stones. Hell, I've never seen more than 3.

On the other hand I've never seen a gold uncracked geode (the one you get in the RotW) give more than 5, so ... yeah. you have 1 geode that will give you 5, and 3 that will give you 2 each... uhm, let me see, let's do some quick math...

Yep, no, my point still stands.

*edit*
Just to add to the discussion, not all scrublets are created equal, try to do that on PC-EU Sotha Sil with a DC char, then let's see if you have the courage to make that statement again.

Milvan · January 2018

C'mon OP, isn't "very frustaded" A little bit too much? PVE'rs aint thriving in trasnmutation stones but they are not that hard to get too.

Also, If you pvp for like a couple of hours you will have enough rewards of the worthy for a week.

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

And how many times have you seen RotW geodes giving out 25 crystals?

That's not the main point. PVE players do not get multiple complete transmutes' worth of stones at the end of every month. PVP players get 50 stones per month per character (so if you do PVP for a couple hours with 8 characters, that's a minimum of 8 transmutes, closer to 10 with RotW geode luck). Nobody should need more transmutes than that, the content updates for this game are too slow for that, so depending on exactly how many characters you have, and how many you still need gear for, by PVPing you can have all of it transmuted within one single month. There is NO way you can do that by PVEing short of literally living in the game and doing nothing else with your life.

Add onto that, PVP sets can all be bought from other players I believe, so it's much easier to just buy an item with the wrong trait on it then transmute it into a BiS item. You can't do that with dungeon or trial sets.

Uviryth · January 2018

There really is a PvE and a PvP-Community in this game?
The most important feature in ESO is that PvE and PvP are so well interconnected. No special PvPskills, no Special PvPequipment, every character works everywhere.

Honestly, thats one of the main reasons I play this game over other MMOs. I dont like Battlegrounds and Arenas and I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE PVPSPECIFIC ARMOR (I mean armor that doesnt work in PvE) and PVPspecific Skills.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »

Also, you suggesting that you can get 10 + 30 stones every day is the biggest joke of all. How many times have you actually seen the purple geodes go over 6? If your experience is anything like mine, the answer is pretty much never.

And how many times have you seen RotW geodes giving out 25 crystals?

That's not the main point. PVE players do not get multiple complete transmutes' worth of stones at the end of every month. PVP players get 50 stones per month per character (so if you do PVP for a couple hours with 8 characters, that's a minimum of 8 transmutes, closer to 10 with RotW geode luck). Nobody should need more transmutes than that, the content updates for this game are too slow for that, so depending on exactly how many characters you have, and how many you still need gear for, by PVPing you can have all of it transmuted within one single month. There is NO way you can do that by PVEing short of literally living in the game and doing nothing else with your life.

Add onto that, PVP sets can all be bought from other players I believe, so it's much easier to just buy an item with the wrong trait on it then transmute it into a BiS item. You can't do that with dungeon or trial sets.

No, they get one every week from every weekly trials they do.

Please stop assuming that since you can't do it it's unfair. That's childish.

As for getting geodes from RotW by relogging toon, they are already changing that, why are you still arguing about it ?

You can't do it with dungeons or trial sets because you're supposed to enjoy that content... If you're not, you're probably playing the wrong game.

Do you know what you sound like ? let me show you:

YOU: "I can't get crystals from PvE and in PvP is much easier to get them"
ME: "Then come do PvP"
YOU: "No, never. I don't like PvP, I don't enjoy PvP, I don't want to play PvP"
ME: "Then do PvE"
YOU: "But it's easier in PvP, you buy the sets that are BoE, instead I have to farm BoP sets, which is harder and get crystals easier"
ME: "What about monster sets ?"
YOU: "If you want them come do PvE"

Fair!

Dapper Dinosaur · January 2018

Uviryth wrote: »

There really is a PvE and a PvP-Community in this game?
The most important feature in ESO is that PvE and PvP are so well interconnected. No special PvPskills, no Special PvPequipment, every character works everywhere.

Honestly, thats one of the main reasons I play this game over other MMOs. I dont like Battlegrounds and Arenas and I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE PVPSPECIFIC ARMOR (I mean armor that doesnt work in PvE) and PVPspecific Skills.

They're not tied together at all, they might as well be completely different IPs. The skills, gear, and "strategies" of PVP are completely different from PVE, literally almost none of it works in the other. In PVE you stack DoTs and AoEs while a tank holds the enemy still and a healer keeps everyone topped off while applying a couple debuffs. Each class uses a specific armor type without exception.

In PVP you not only have just about everyone wearing heavy armor regardless of class or role and you have to stack Impenetrable (literally doesn't do anything in PVE), you can't use most of your PVE skills because human players aren't AI and will simply walk out of and/or nullify them, and there is no tank taunting people to hold them still for you, and healers are much more sparse. No one player typically can do anything in cyrodiil (unless a huge zerg develops a mental disease and follows the one person through a door to have all the AoE DoTs dropped on them), and typically running with more people than the enemy team is the only thing that matters. Dueling is basically "who can cheese the other player first". Contrary to what PVPers will say, PVP in this game has no actual skill in it, and it's all just builds and which team has more players on it.

The two play completely differently and almost nothing is translatable without making you very undertuned and ineffective.

Morgul667 · January 2018

This thread is getting fun

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2018

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

It's funny how I am primarily a pvper and don't care much at all about the crystals. I hate that all the awesome monster sets are locked behind pve. Minus the golden vendor of course. But good luck waiting for what you want.

This ones always confused me, doesnt it make sense that in order to get the monster set you should kill the monster? It makes no sense to me that a random gold lady sells the heads of fallen undaunted victims.

Aisle9 · January 2018

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

It's funny how I am primarily a pvper and don't care much at all about the crystals. I hate that all the awesome monster sets are locked behind pve. Minus the golden vendor of course. But good luck waiting for what you want.

This ones always confused me, doesnt it make sense that in order to get the monster set you should kill the monster? It makes no sense to me that a random gold lady sells the heads of fallen undaunted victims.

Khajiit doesn't ask where you get your stuff, why are you asking khajiit where she gets her stuff ?

Bobby_V_Rockit · January 2018

Aisle9 wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

chaserstorm16909 wrote: »

It's funny how I am primarily a pvper and don't care much at all about the crystals. I hate that all the awesome monster sets are locked behind pve. Minus the golden vendor of course. But good luck waiting for what you want.

This ones always confused me, doesnt it make sense that in order to get the monster set you should kill the monster? It makes no sense to me that a random gold lady sells the heads of fallen undaunted victims.

Khajiit doesn't ask where you get your stuff, why are you asking khajiit where she gets her stuff ?

Just sayin’ its a bad comparison. But I dont know why PvP’ers always moan about it. Never mind! Off topic anyways. I wish they just raised the drop rate for PvE stuff than nerfing PvP, just makes everyone a sad panda