Recremen wrote: »

HaruyukiHana wrote: »

It's needed to drive the economy.

Not really.

Recremen wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

Could you list out several of the gold sinks and how this additional sink is negatively impacting your game in anyway different from today on live? It may be a pain to get the hold to get the exact look you've dreamed of, but it shouldn't prevent you from farming out and crafting a look you like from the motifs that you have. You also have costumes as well if it's a dropped set.

To me this is a cosmetic gold sink, like housing. Something that looks nice but won't get you much in terms of better loot, higher dps, or more kills; meaning it's optional. That's just my opinion though.

@HeroOfNone

Current Gold Sinks

• Luxury Vendor
• Golden Vendor
• Houses
• Achievement Furniture
• General Furniture
• Crafting/Furniture Recipes
• Master Writ Items
• Motifs
• Gear
• Riding Lessons
• Crafting Materials

The first few are direct gold sinks, the rest are indirect and depend on your level of engagement. For instance, learning all the Master Writ furniture recipes will, for most people, require that they buy master writs from other people, or buy the recipes directly from others who already got all the master writs needed. Some rare few might get lucky on one character and just get a ton of really good master writs so they can afford it all on their own, and some might do master writs on every character on multiple accounts, but that's not the norm. Same idea with motifs. I farm like the dickens, but even I end up buying some missing motifs here and there, especially on ones like Buoyant Armiger, where they were so rare that people were flat out unwilling or unable to trade duplicates around. Some of these are capped (I just finished riding lessons on my last character a couple weeks ago), but most are a continuous expense.

Now as far as impact goes. I like to engage with all of the above systems. I like to do PvE, PvP, crafting, the works. Having a wide breadth of experiences and tools lets me then make better stories for the community when I have time to do content creation. The outfit system has been something I've been begging for/looking forward to for a long time. And not only have they delivered everything I could have asked for, they went above and beyond my desired feature list. This was going to open up a whole new world for making new content, with almost as much potential as the housing system.

Now the potential is still there, but it comes at even greater costs than what I've already invested to get here. Housing is expensive as heck and I've been pouring huge resources into get stuff prepared for more stories. Having to also juggle a per-use expenditure for aesthetic changes really is that much more of a burden. It feels like an average player is able to experience less and less of the game due to these stacking expenses, and even spending in the cash shop (which I do frequently) can't alleviate the burden. I'm not even an average player, I spend more time in the game than most, and I still feel my schedule being squeezed by all these things you need to grind and all this gold you need to sink.

Also, I feel I've miscommunicated somehow. The problem isn't finding a single look I like. That's easy. I have loads of costumes I love, at least one standard outfit that I know I'm going to buy a slot for, and plenty of ideas for new outfits. It's that last part that's the problem. I want the freedom to experiment with new styles on a regular basis. I want to be able to show the new motifs to my friends when I finish farming them so they can make a better decision regarding whether or not they too want to farm it. I want to do these things without incurring exorbitant expenses. For example, under the current system, did you know that showing off all aspects of the Apostle and Ebonshadow motifs would run you 144k gold? Just to show each motif once. That's ludicrous!

Finally, I get what you're saying about it being an aesthetic thing and not a combat performance thing, but there's no reason to value one more than the other. For many, end-game combat performance is also optional. Indeed, most won't get close to being end-game combat ready. For a lot of people, the real end game is playing magickal cat barbie. They should not be charged a per-use fee for each engagement with the system any more than us PvE or PvP folks should be charged gold to enter a dungeon or Cyro.

Cenom wrote: »

Everything is cosmetic, so it should be a gold sink.
Enough said.

Cenom wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

HeroOfNone wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more hold sinks as good is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge

There's already so many gold sinks, though! And gold is not that easy to make unless you're strictly farming for gold. If you actually play the content or PvP then gold is actually very precious. Indeed, some systems, like any kind of crafting, will actually have you operating at a loss!

ParaNostram wrote: »

Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

Cool then the dozen existing gold sinks don't need competition.

Could you list out several of the gold sinks and how this additional sink is negatively impacting your game in anyway different from today on live? It may be a pain to get the hold to get the exact look you've dreamed of, but it shouldn't prevent you from farming out and crafting a look you like from the motifs that you have. You also have costumes as well if it's a dropped set.

To me this is a cosmetic gold sink, like housing. Something that looks nice but won't get you much in terms of better loot, higher dps, or more kills; meaning it's optional. That's just my opinion though.

@HeroOfNone

Current Gold Sinks

• Luxury Vendor
• Golden Vendor
• Houses
• Achievement Furniture
• General Furniture
• Crafting/Furniture Recipes
• Master Writ Items
• Motifs
• Gear
• Riding Lessons
• Crafting Materials

The first few are direct gold sinks, the rest are indirect and depend on your level of engagement. For instance, learning all the Master Writ furniture recipes will, for most people, require that they buy master writs from other people, or buy the recipes directly from others who already got all the master writs needed. Some rare few might get lucky on one character and just get a ton of really good master writs so they can afford it all on their own, and some might do master writs on every character on multiple accounts, but that's not the norm. Same idea with motifs. I farm like the dickens, but even I end up buying some missing motifs here and there, especially on ones like Buoyant Armiger, where they were so rare that people were flat out unwilling or unable to trade duplicates around. Some of these are capped (I just finished riding lessons on my last character a couple weeks ago), but most are a continuous expense.

Now as far as impact goes. I like to engage with all of the above systems. I like to do PvE, PvP, crafting, the works. Having a wide breadth of experiences and tools lets me then make better stories for the community when I have time to do content creation. The outfit system has been something I've been begging for/looking forward to for a long time. And not only have they delivered everything I could have asked for, they went above and beyond my desired feature list. This was going to open up a whole new world for making new content, with almost as much potential as the housing system.

Now the potential is still there, but it comes at even greater costs than what I've already invested to get here. Housing is expensive as heck and I've been pouring huge resources into get stuff prepared for more stories. Having to also juggle a per-use expenditure for aesthetic changes really is that much more of a burden. It feels like an average player is able to experience less and less of the game due to these stacking expenses, and even spending in the cash shop (which I do frequently) can't alleviate the burden. I'm not even an average player, I spend more time in the game than most, and I still feel my schedule being squeezed by all these things you need to grind and all this gold you need to sink.

Also, I feel I've miscommunicated somehow. The problem isn't finding a single look I like. That's easy. I have loads of costumes I love, at least one standard outfit that I know I'm going to buy a slot for, and plenty of ideas for new outfits. It's that last part that's the problem. I want the freedom to experiment with new styles on a regular basis. I want to be able to show the new motifs to my friends when I finish farming them so they can make a better decision regarding whether or not they too want to farm it. I want to do these things without incurring exorbitant expenses. For example, under the current system, did you know that showing off all aspects of the Apostle and Ebonshadow motifs would run you 144k gold? Just to show each motif once. That's ludicrous!

Finally, I get what you're saying about it being an aesthetic thing and not a combat performance thing, but there's no reason to value one more than the other. For many, end-game combat performance is also optional. Indeed, most won't get close to being end-game combat ready. For a lot of people, the real end game is playing magickal cat barbie. They should not be charged a per-use fee for each engagement with the system any more than us PvE or PvP folks should be charged gold to enter a dungeon or Cyro.

Everything is cosmetic, so it should be a gold sink.
Enough said.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

I, for one, do not have a guild and don't wan tone. I do not want to "meet quotas" and deal with chat spam. I'm much happier with my small circle of friends and soloing or PUGing dungeons. I don't have the time or desire to farm gold and my luck just sucks for drops anyway.

Maybe gold is easy for you to make, but it is not for me or newer players. I bet it wasn't always easy for you either unless you have been playing the market since the beginning and driving costs astronomically high causing the need for the very gold sink that we hate.

Here is a true statement most people don't want to believe or try because they want "a working economy" and it would essentially kill it, at least temporarily, even if games will never have truly working economies because of infinite supply and limited demand:
Remove gold sinks and make items, or the gold to get them, easier to get and the bot farmers, and just regular "no life" farmers, would disappear as there would be no profit for them. The only people playing the game would be actually playing the game. This could actually bring the economy back because having less farmers drives prices up also, maintaining that delicate balance.
FYI, they already do the above somewhat by making most of the best items "bind on pickup", but this kills game economies more than anything because there is no trade for those, not even flooded-market low-profit trading. With easier and cheaper to get items and gold then at least there is trade still.

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

At the very least, ESO+ memebers should be able to change their outfits at no additional cost. A transmog system was one of the most requested features from that Ideas for ESO Plus thread ZOS made, and while we're all thrilled that the system is open to everyone, nobody is thrilled at the prospect of a per-use cost, something that's never been done for a cosmetic system in the history of the game. If ESO+ members can use it for free then that's two birds with one stone, basically.

Definitely get rid of the gold cost. It's either too high or pointlessly low, like every other gold cost, in any game, ever.

But no, not an ESO Plus only thing. We "premium players" also need low/no gold cost or it just becomes a "necessity to subscribe" which a subscription should never be. It already feels necessary to subscribe because of how damn grindy the crafting system is because there are just WAY TOO DAMN MANY MATERIALS!
Why do we need 3 upgrade levels anyway? White, green, blue, purple, gold are just a waste because everything white through blue is mostly vendor trash. Just make it "white>silver>gold" which is much cooler anyway being valuable metals in real life. That would make it much more worthwhile for us to craft items or drops worth more to us that normally wouldn't be so long as they are silver or above. Hell, dungeons don't even drop anything from bosses lower than blue quality, or purple for veteran, so why have lower qualities? Is it just to undervalue crafting?



I think crafting needs another overhaul to make it easier on those of us without the craft bag, or the craft bag needs to be an optional purchase outside of ESO Plus. (Edit: And, if you think the craft bag is the only reason to subscribe to ESO Plus then it is definitely too valuable to limit to ESO Plus and the other ESO Plus benefits need to be made more worthwhile. That supports my point.)

Sorry for the off topic, but it needs to be said.

Taysa wrote: »

mesmerizedish wrote: »

Using as argument the cost of changing outfits specifically to get numerous screenshots to show off features or motifs is disingenuous. This is a highly artificial scenario that doesn't really have any bearing on realistic use of the system.

Here's a more realistic scenario.

Player dyes an outfit that looks good in whatever horrid lighting effect was available to them at the time. Player then goes out into the wilderness and realizes that in natural sunlight, they look like a power ranger on an acid trip. Player then has to go back and pay for another dye job and hope that one is better. Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

Kiara wrote: »

They won't change it anyway, also it's easy to make gold in this game imo.

aliyavana wrote: »

I think its necessary for more gold sinks as gold is easy to make in this game. I think that dye costs should be removed however and eso plus members can use this feature free of charge