Gold cost for outfitting must go

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  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Cadbury wrote: »

    Eh. I would prefer it if there wasn't any gold fee, but ZOS gonna ZOS. :/

    As an aside, I loved how LOTRO's fashion system worked. And Champions Online as well (and I say that as a COH fan)

    I did play that, Champions Online, but I think this game could learn more from DC Universe Online, especially considering what they are trying here now. That game had you find a style and then you could use it for free forever. You just equipped the item, binding it, to get the style. It's similar to using a motif here but also works for all items there. It would be great for monster helms here.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Nihility42 wrote: »

    I don't inflate prices at all. I buy underpriced items and sell them for their actual worth. That isn't any definition of inflation.

    You forget or fail to mention that there are thousands and thousands of players making gold without trying. Just by running pledges and vendoring junk, you make several thousand per day. It's not particularly significant individually, but this is millions of new gold coming into the game just by players playing. Add in people thieving, farming gold, farming items to vendor, etc and it's easy to see how there is so much gold in the game, bots aside. Even individually, you should be able to make a decent amount of gold from these passive sources over time just by playing.

    And if it's not fast enough, this is a multiplayer game, so try playing with other people and doing some of the trading thing. I promise it's not too scary.


    Again, you're being overdramatic. You don't like trading and don't put effort into making gold, so no one else can have gold either I guess?

    No, I put effort into making gold the way everyone had to and the way all gold is made. I make it by farming and grinding as much as I can tolerate and then spending it on the guild traders for items that drop for the lucky people or the people running master writs or the people farming content I can't really.

    I'm the reason you can even sell your items on the guild trader. You can't flip if there isn't an end buyer willing to spend on it. The rich players will only "share gold" so far until one of them is stuck down a lot of gold and holding the bag, so to speak, unless they can get it to sell to somebody that will use it.

    People like me ultimately drive the economy of the game, if you don't count bot farmers. We farm up the gold to pay for the items, and often farm up the items too.
    A game needs to be designed so that everything is attainable multiple times and with enough gold so that players can and will trade the extra copies and be able to afford to buy them. Designing to be so slow as to only support people selling their first and only copy for stupid high prices that only the rich players who no longer farm because they are tired of it is just going to result in all the gold disappearing in listing fees and other "direct to npc transactions".


    Like I've said before...
    Gold sinks do not encourage a healthy economy. They make grinding and farming feel more and more mandatory and less and less rewarding to the point of encouraging cheating to make it more efficient or botting to do it when you're not playing or paying a bot farmer real money to avoid having to "waste that time" yourself.

    I wonder how big a problem bots are in this game? According to you, they can't be that bad. I shouldn't see them anywhere doing any farming because I don't go to the most obvious best farming locations. They can't possibly be so common that they have spread to sub-optimal locations that interfere with quests...
    hehehe


    I am seriously considering investigating how much these bot farmers charge for their gold. It may just be worth it to buy gold so I can finally "catch up" and get some of the cool items and motifs I have been looking for, and to pay for the future grind this patch and others will be forcing on me.
    I don't hate bot farmers anymore. They keep me from either falling asleep at my keyboard or getting really annoyed with the game so much that I quit it and go back to offline games that do everything better and without extra cost(Skyrim, for example). The "MMO" appeal wears a lot thinner when the community is less and less "real people" and more "bots" and less friendly and more "F you! I want more gold so gimme 1 million for this!".
  • Doctordarkspawn
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    Gold sinks are important for mmo economies.

    This isn't a traditional MMO economy. The old principles for balancing an auction house do not apply well to it. Thus, I do not accept these as reasons for a cost on something that's quite frankly so irrelevent to most of the game.
  • Recremen
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    So before this thread gets derailed into an ethics of econ course I'd like to try to bring it back around to the topic at hand: if people think making gold is easy (which for many, actually, it isn't), how does that affect this system at all? It doesn't change the fundamental arguments against a per-use cost for a cosmetic system, which is something they've never done before. The whole thing sets a bad precedent.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Bevik
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    Recremen wrote: »
    So before this thread gets derailed into an ethics of econ course I'd like to try to bring it back around to the topic at hand: if people think making gold is easy (which for many, actually, it isn't), how does that affect this system at all? It doesn't change the fundamental arguments against a per-use cost for a cosmetic system, which is something they've never done before. The whole thing sets a bad precedent.

    What would you recommend instead? Drop the gold cost and replace with tokens? So you can use Outfits only for Crowns? They gave you a choice. If you can't farm gold that's L2P issue. In this game farming gold is a breeze.
  • Longstride
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    My gripe is thus:

    I am being force to pay for the privilege of using something I earned. I worked for the achievements that rewarded exclusive dyes, and I killed mobs, pocked pockets, and used gold to buy motifs and style ingredients in order to create a visually unique character. I was very excited for the new system; however, now I am being forced to pay for things that I already worked for.
  • kookster
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    I think the cost for dying should be removed since dying anything was free to begin with I think it should stay that way. The cost for equipping new styles I think is ok I guess, though I think it would make more sense to use the styling material and not gold, this will equate into costing more since some style materials are costly/rare, and this would also bring possible revenue to the company since it will allow the use of the crown mimic stones.
    Edited by kookster on January 10, 2018 6:11PM
    Potato Pact - PC NA
  • Epona222
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    I can't see myself using outfits due to the cost tbh.

    I'm not someone who needs another gold sink - housing provides that for me and I'm usually short of cash as a result (and a long way off having all homes). I'm also not going to spend crowns on it.

    If the game needs another gold sink, Zeni need to work out a way to target that at the folks with a lot of in game gold, not those of us who are already paying out for homes and are most likely to be interested in appearance/RP options!
    GM - Ghost Sea Trading Co - NA PC

    Epona was a Romano-Celtic goddess dating back to around 1800 to 2000 years before computer games were invented.
  • Recremen
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    Bevik wrote: »

    What would you recommend instead? Drop the gold cost and replace with tokens? So you can use Outfits only for Crowns? They gave you a choice. If you can't farm gold that's L2P issue. In this game farming gold is a breeze.

    @Bevik

    Don't be dense. I've made it very clear through the whole thread that there should be no per-use cost, period. No gold, no tokens. The extra outfit slots are already enough monetization for the system. This looks like a learn-to-read issue.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • HeroOfNone
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    Recremen wrote: »

    @HeroOfNone

    Current Gold Sinks
    • Luxury Vendor
    • Golden Vendor
    • Houses
    • Achievement Furniture
    • General Furniture
    • Crafting/Furniture Recipes
    • Master Writ Items
    • Motifs
    • Gear
    • Riding Lessons
    • Crafting Materials

    The first few are direct gold sinks, the rest are indirect and depend on your level of engagement. For instance, learning all the Master Writ furniture recipes will, for most people, require that they buy master writs from other people, or buy the recipes directly from others who already got all the master writs needed. Some rare few might get lucky on one character and just get a ton of really good master writs so they can afford it all on their own, and some might do master writs on every character on multiple accounts, but that's not the norm. Same idea with motifs. I farm like the dickens, but even I end up buying some missing motifs here and there, especially on ones like Buoyant Armiger, where they were so rare that people were flat out unwilling or unable to trade duplicates around. Some of these are capped (I just finished riding lessons on my last character a couple weeks ago), but most are a continuous expense.

    Now as far as impact goes. I like to engage with all of the above systems. I like to do PvE, PvP, crafting, the works. Having a wide breadth of experiences and tools lets me then make better stories for the community when I have time to do content creation. The outfit system has been something I've been begging for/looking forward to for a long time. And not only have they delivered everything I could have asked for, they went above and beyond my desired feature list. This was going to open up a whole new world for making new content, with almost as much potential as the housing system.

    Now the potential is still there, but it comes at even greater costs than what I've already invested to get here. Housing is expensive as heck and I've been pouring huge resources into get stuff prepared for more stories. Having to also juggle a per-use expenditure for aesthetic changes really is that much more of a burden. It feels like an average player is able to experience less and less of the game due to these stacking expenses, and even spending in the cash shop (which I do frequently) can't alleviate the burden. I'm not even an average player, I spend more time in the game than most, and I still feel my schedule being squeezed by all these things you need to grind and all this gold you need to sink.

    Also, I feel I've miscommunicated somehow. The problem isn't finding a single look I like. That's easy. I have loads of costumes I love, at least one standard outfit that I know I'm going to buy a slot for, and plenty of ideas for new outfits. It's that last part that's the problem. I want the freedom to experiment with new styles on a regular basis. I want to be able to show the new motifs to my friends when I finish farming them so they can make a better decision regarding whether or not they too want to farm it. I want to do these things without incurring exorbitant expenses. For example, under the current system, did you know that showing off all aspects of the Apostle and Ebonshadow motifs would run you 144k gold? Just to show each motif once. That's ludicrous!

    Finally, I get what you're saying about it being an aesthetic thing and not a combat performance thing, but there's no reason to value one more than the other. For many, end-game combat performance is also optional. Indeed, most won't get close to being end-game combat ready. For a lot of people, the real end game is playing magickal cat barbie. They should not be charged a per-use fee for each engagement with the system any more than us PvE or PvP folks should be charged gold to enter a dungeon or Cyro.

    the Gear, the riding lessons, and the crafting materials are all what I might consider gold sinks, along with repair costs & storage space, which I assumed you missed. the other stuff doesn't do much to give you an advantage nor is it forced upon you, so this is a difference in priorities, but recognize that's what gives some of the style stuff value. Also, given the setup without using motif stones and being able to apply it across multiple accounts, you can potentially get huge value where you would have to recreate and reforge armor in the past to have the newest look. If the price is dynamic, and changes based on the rarity and the age of the motif, I feel this is fair, as trying to get the motif pieces and materials are already as expensive.
    Herfi Driderkitty of the Aldmeri Dominion
    Find me on : Twitch | Youtube | Twitter | Reddit
  • Recremen
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    Longstride wrote: »
    My gripe is thus:

    I am being force to pay for the privilege of using something I earned. I worked for the achievements that rewarded exclusive dyes, and I killed mobs, pocked pockets, and used gold to buy motifs and style ingredients in order to create a visually unique character. I was very excited for the new system; however, now I am being forced to pay for things that I already worked for.

    Exactly this. Just like the other cosmetics in the game, Outfits should be a one-and-done expenditure. For the other cosmetics we earned the achievements to get the dye, costume, personality, or we paid for the cash shop-exclusive ones, after which point they were unlocked across our whole account and we were free to switch them up forever after. For Outfits, we learned the motifs already, whether we farmed them up manually or paid gold or bought them off the cash shop. That was the expense. We're good. We've earned this. And for all you people saying "lol gold is ez to farm l2p", what on god's gay earth do you think we've been spending our gold on?
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Recremen
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    HeroOfNone wrote: »

    the Gear, the riding lessons, and the crafting materials are all what I might consider gold sinks, along with repair costs & storage space, which I assumed you missed. the other stuff doesn't do much to give you an advantage nor is it forced upon you, so this is a difference in priorities, but recognize that's what gives some of the style stuff value. Also, given the setup without using motif stones and being able to apply it across multiple accounts, you can potentially get huge value where you would have to recreate and reforge armor in the past to have the newest look. If the price is dynamic, and changes based on the rarity and the age of the motif, I feel this is fair, as trying to get the motif pieces and materials are already as expensive.

    @HeroOfNone

    I wasn't trying to make a comprehensive list just give some examples. Most of that you could break out into finer detail if you really wanted to but I thought it illustrated the point.

    Strictly speaking, a gold sink is anything that takes gold out of the economy. It doesn't really matter what you consider to be gold sinks, it's not a matter of opinion. Paying an NPC for an item (whether a combat-relevant item or a cosmetic item doesn't matter) is a strict gold sink as the gold is unrecoverable and disappears from the economy. Stuff you pay other players for, such as crafting materials or recipes, are not strict gold sinks, but can be effective gold sinks as the money funnels into the account of one of the market mogul player types. For these people gold earned is an end-game stat, so while they do funnel a lot back into the economy they also end up sitting on a lot of it. I'd call that a dynamic gold sink.

    Also the whole point of the outfit system was that motifs were undervalued. A lot of end-game gear for many setups either doesn't involve any crafting, or involves very little crafting. The entire motif economy has been running on speculation that this outfit system was going to be based on motif knowledge, and thankfully that actually paid off. Sure, you could put together sets of RP gear, but you couldn't then wear that into battle and hope to do well.

    Anyway, the point is that we've already paid out the boot once for motifs and we shouldn't be charged per-use for the outfit system. All the other cosmetic systems have been single-cost, after which we were free to mess around and swap out, acount-wide, forever. They should continue to follow that model here. We've invested enough, let us play around with this.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Cenom
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    Recremen wrote: »

    @Cenom

    Being cosmetic doesn't matter, as I already pointed out in the quoted text. We don't charge PvP and PvE players gold to enter Cyro, Battlegrounds, or Trials, so there should be no per-use charge for cosmetics either. It should be one and done.

    Enough said.

    Just in your mind.
    Keep telling this to yourself.
  • Wreuntzylla
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    I haven't tried the system and don't know when you get charged, but outfits are like significant others. You have to try them out for a while, sometimes fix a few things here or there, before you settle on one you really like.

    Hopefully the charge comes an hour or two after completion?
  • Recremen
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    I haven't tried the system and don't know when you get charged, but outfits are like significant others. You have to try them out for a while, sometimes fix a few things here or there, before you settle on one you really like.

    Hopefully the charge comes an hour or two after completion?

    No, it's right when you finalize the outfit. There shouldn't be a charge at all, though. Cosmetic freedom is top priority. If we've gathered the motifs and earned the dyes, we have done enough. These extra costs are foolish.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Avran_Sylt
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    The outfit system having a gold cost is fine. (The values themselves though, are certainly up for debate). Why? It's a method for Fashion Players to interact with other aspects of the game with incentive.

    Much like a player getting and upgrading a set of items whose effect they're interested in, if they want to get another set they're gonna have to go and get it (motif), and upgrade it (Outfitting Cost) just the same as the first.

    Except the Fashion Player has many more options to choose from in regards to how they go about obtaining this 'new set', as all you need is some gold.

    For player retention and for more gameplay, it's a good system. You may not like it, but it's good for the game.
  • Bevik
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    Recremen wrote: »

    No, it's right when you finalize the outfit. There shouldn't be a charge at all, though. Cosmetic freedom is top priority. If we've gathered the motifs and earned the dyes, we have done enough. These extra costs are foolish.

    The charge is so small it's like nothing. Noone forced you to spend millions on housing and motifs anyway. If you gathered all the motifs you have already spent time and gold (probably millions as I said) on them anyway. Don't tell me getting 2000g / very rare style piece will bankkrupt you. RPers, Fashion Players want everything for free? Play the game.
  • Recremen
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »
    The outfit system having a gold cost is fine. (The values themselves though, are certainly up for debate). Why? It's a method for Fashion Players to interact with other aspects of the game with incentive.

    Much like a player getting and upgrading a set of items whose effect they're interested in, if they want to get another set they're gonna have to go and get it (motif), and upgrade it (Outfitting Cost) just the same as the first.

    Except the Fashion Player has many more options to choose from in regards to how they go about obtaining this 'new set', as all you need is some gold.

    For player retention and for more gameplay, it's a good system. You may not like it, but it's good for the game.

    @Avran_Sylt

    You seem to be forgetting that fashion players already need to get the motifs, and that there the outfit station incurs a per-use cost, which is completely different from getting end-game gear. A more apt comparison would be to compare getting and upgrading the gear (a single cost) with getting the motif (a single cost). You don't then keep spending money once you have your end-game gear, you're done, and once you finish getting the motif you should be done as well.

    It's also important to distinguished that there are far more combinations of styles than combinations of gear you would need. At worst, you need to get every set piece in every trait, though in actuality that's not the case since most traits are undesirable. That's only a few thousand possible expenditures, and once you've acquired them all you're done. Comparatively, there are thousands of trillions of possible motif combinations, and you have to pay for each one you switch to. This is not a good comparison, especially since fashion players are generally going to be doing both gear grinding and motif grinding.

    Your claims about player retention and gameplay are, additionally, completely unsupported. Did you just throw that on the end for fun?
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Recremen
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    Bevik wrote: »

    The charge is so small it's like nothing. Noone forced you to spend millions on housing and motifs anyway. If you gathered all the motifs you have already spent time and gold (probably millions as I said) on them anyway. Don't tell me getting 2000g / very rare style piece will bankkrupt you. RPers, Fashion Players want everything for free? Play the game.

    @Bevik

    The charge is not so small it's like nothing. I've actually played with the system, and I know how difficult it is to get all these motifs. It's not a trivial expense when you're juggling all the different things this game has to offer, which many of us are. What are you saying, enjoying the game is bad, go grind more? Awful. We grind enough. We want to play content, not go farm mudcrabs every time we want to change an outfit.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Recremen wrote: »
    You seem to be forgetting that fashion players already need to get the motifs, and that there the outfit station incurs a per-use cost, which is completely different from getting end-game gear. A more apt comparison would be to compare getting and upgrading the gear (a single cost) with getting the motif (a single cost). You don't then keep spending money once you have your end-game gear, you're done, and once you finish getting the motif you should be done as well.

    Yes, you continue to pay for your end-game gear:
    Repairing the gear (many costs) with replacing part of an Outfit (many costs)
    Recremen wrote: »
    It's also important to distinguished that there are far more combinations of styles than combinations of gear you would need. At worst, you need to get every set piece in every trait, though in actuality that's not the case since most traits are undesirable. That's only a few thousand possible expenditures, and once you've acquired them all you're done. Comparatively, there are thousands of trillions of possible motif combinations, and you have to pay for each one you switch to.

    Ah, but you get to preview all these combinations without even needing to pay! Did you know you can equip unknown motif styles and still see how it looks with other styles? And can turn your character around to see it from various angles! (Only gripe here would be to have an over-the-shoulder view included).

    So those 'thousand expenditures' don't need to be expenditures since you can see the combinations in real-time. No longer needing to even bother going out and getting a motif to see how exactly it looks on your character. (Ah, ESO Fashion days).
    Recremen wrote: »
    Your claims about player retention and gameplay are, additionally, completely unsupported. Did you just throw that on the end for fun?

    I was working on an argument against that, but I will rescind that as yeah, that was a misguided statement. This system isn't meant to keep players around, per say, but to act as a gold sink.
  • Bevik
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    I'm done arguing as you only see your view here anyway. The price is not high yet a reasonable money sink which this game really needs. Not everyone wants to change the outfit million times, like everywhere in this life if you want something extra gotta pay the price. You got the tool you still need to fuel it.

    As I said I'm sitting on aprox. 10 millions done that without any serious farm/grind since last year April. Not interested in housing yet because no storage possibility, going to be possible after the patch so money sink for me, not sure I'm really going to spend anything on furnishing tho or buying any fancy house, as I don't do RP, no time to sitting and enjoying the house as I got real life or if I'm online I want to play.
    With the Outfit system I'm gonna try some style because before the patch there is no point to know the motifs. What for? I'm using costumes, farmed or crafted gear, they are not visible anyway. So motifs money and time sink again for me. Yet if I still keep playing contents like trials, group dungeons, delves whatever on main and alts, doing daily writs I'm gonna have way more than enough gold.

    If you are into housing, outfits, RP as I said you got the price, deal with it or not your choice.
    Edited by Bevik on January 10, 2018 10:27PM
  • Recremen
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »

    Yes, you continue to pay for your end-game gear:
    Repairing the gear (many costs) with replacing part of an Outfit (many costs)

    Ah, but you get to preview all these combinations without even needing to pay! Did you know you can equip unknown motif styles and still see how it looks with other styles? And can turn your character around to see it from various angles! (Only gripe here would be to have an over-the-shoulder view included).

    So those 'thousand expenditures' don't need to be expenditures since you can see the combinations in real-time. No longer needing to even bother going out and getting a motif to see how exactly it looks on your character. (Ah, ESO Fashion days).

    I was working on an argument against that, but I will rescind that as yeah, that was a misguided statement. This system isn't meant to keep players around, per say, but to act as a gold sink.

    @Avran_Sylt

    I knew you'd bring up repair costs, but once again the argument doesn't add up. You only damage your gear if you're doing content that will earn you gold anyway. You end up profiting hugely from doing content where you end up having to worry about repair costs. This is not the case with the outfits. You can't be fancy at NPCs and earn gold.

    I did know you can equip unknown motifs to try it out, that's not the point. We're talking about changing to and using all these different styles, not previewing. That's why the per-use expenditure matters. If people are just finding one good look and sticking to it then it's an absurdly cheap system, but that's not how a lot of us who've been championing this system wanted it. We want to be able to frequently change our look, and that's not happening with the this system. That's when the price becomes exorbitant and divorced from what we've been asking for.

    And yeah I agree this can act as a gold sink, I just don't think we need another one, especially when it's such a dubious gold sink to begin with. Some people are saying that they're just going to make one outfit and call it a day, other people are saying that they're going to go out and farm extra gold to switch it up more often. Neither of those things is taking much gold out of the economy. And the people that *are* going to be using the system a lot are generally people who are already spenders instead of savers, as they're out getting motifs and junk. It just doesn't add up to me, you know?
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Recremen wrote: »
    I knew you'd bring up repair costs, but once again the argument doesn't add up. You only damage your gear if you're doing content that will earn you gold anyway. You end up profiting hugely from doing content where you end up having to worry about repair costs. This is not the case with the outfits. You can't be fancy at NPCs and earn gold.

    And that's why your Outfit doesn't 'degrade' (It very easily could, but then two systems are double dipping). But also remember that getting motifs from Player Trading is not necessarily the game oriented method, and that looting chests,crates,houses, Coffers, Dailies,Trials, etc. Also provides you with gold sources as well if you choose to farm for the motif yourself. Hence why a gold sink may be beneficial. (It should be noted that some of these systems do double dip: Dailies/Trials)

    Recremen wrote: »
    I did know you can equip unknown motifs to try it out, that's not the point. We're talking about changing to and using all these different styles, not previewing. That's why the per-use expenditure matters. If people are just finding one good look and sticking to it then it's an absurdly cheap system, but that's not how a lot of us who've been championing this system wanted it. We want to be able to frequently change our look, and that's not happening with the this system. That's when the price becomes exorbitant and divorced from what we've been asking for.

    An inquiry for you:
    When 'changing' up your style, do you change a few small pieces to better accentuate a currently existing getup/theme? Or do you completely overwrite it with a new one?
    Do these styles echo across all of your characters or do you only have a few each character uses?
  • Recremen
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »

    And that's why your Outfit doesn't 'degrade' (It very easily could, but then two systems are double dipping). But also remember that getting motifs from Player Trading is not necessarily the game oriented method, and that looting chests,crates,houses, Coffers, Dailies,Trials, etc. Also provides you with gold sources as well if you choose to farm for the motif yourself. Hence why a gold sink may be beneficial. (It should be noted that some of these systems do double dip: Dailies/Trials)


    An inquiry for you:
    When 'changing' up your style, do you change a few small pieces to better accentuate a currently existing getup/theme? Or do you completely overwrite it with a new one?
    Do these styles echo across all of your characters or do you only have a few each character uses?

    @Avran_Sylt
    Well yeah, it doesn't degrade but think of it like switching out your PvP set for your PvE set. You don't need to pay gold for it. You do need to pay for changing out your outfit, though. Even if you've got extra outfit slots, you need to pay to set them up and there's also no way you can get as many outfit slots as there are desirable combinations of styles. If you like changing things up even a little bit, you're paying for it.

    And yeah all the motif acquisition methods except paying gold is just double-dipping by playing the content. You do the thieve's guild hesits, the dark brotherhood contracts, the PvP to earn AP to get the PvP motifs, the trials and dungeons to get all those, etc. That's also how you earn the gear, too. And that's part of the problem. People who want to change their look up a lot with the new system have to go so much above and beyond what other players are expected to keep up with. I'm PvP rank 50, I've done all the trails, some vet hardmode, I've done all the DLC content, all the dungeons, etc. etc. Now we've finally got this totally baller Outfit system, but I need to juggle even more expenditures just to fully utilize it? That doesn't seem fair.

    So when changing up the style, I was hoping to do fully-fledged new looks. In most of my posts I try to show off a new and unique look to fit the theme of the story. And in my day-to-day activity I like to switch up, at the very least, my dyes for whatever I'm wearing at the time, be it a costume or armor. I was hoping for this system to be a natural continuation of that, a grand aesthetic Renaissance at least for my main character. My other characters are likely to have one, or at most a handful, of standard looks that I won't need to deviate from. Though I do now have a "second main", who is just a copy of my first but in a class that's more useful to my PvP crew, who will also need to switch up frequently because I fundamentally play him as the same person.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Avran_Sylt
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    Recremen wrote: »
    ...If you like changing things up even a little bit, you're paying for it...

    People who want to change their look up a lot with the new system have to go so much above and beyond what other players are expected to keep up with...I need to juggle even more expenditures just to fully utilize it? That doesn't seem fair.

    So when changing up the style, I was hoping to do fully-fledged new looks... And in my day-to-day activity I like to switch up, at the very least, my dyes for whatever I'm wearing at the time, be it a costume or armor. I was hoping for this system to be a natural continuation of that, a grand aesthetic Renaissance at least for my main character. My other characters are likely to have one, or at most a handful, of standard looks that I won't need to deviate from. Though I do now have a "second main"...who will also need to switch up frequently because I fundamentally play him as the same person.

    ... Out of curiosity, what would your reaction have been to this system if, per outfit, you simply paid the initial 'cost' for a learned motif style. Swapping between 'crafted' motifs for an Outfit had no additional expense?
  • Recremen
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    Avran_Sylt wrote: »

    ... Out of curiosity, what would your reaction have been to this system if, per outfit, you simply paid the initial 'cost' for a learned motif style. Swapping between 'crafted' motifs for an Outfit had no additional expense?

    @Avran_Sylt

    I'm not sure what you mean by that. Can you elaborate a bit? Do you mean some means of unlocking infinite free changes on a per-outfit slot level? I'm not super clear on the thrust of your proposal.

    Also, I'd like to point out, as in my original more-detailed post, that my reaction to this system is still overwhelmingly positive. If nothing changes between now and live it's still an incredible system. But this per-use cost to change outfits and dye them greatly limits its use and hits the people who've been asking for it the hardest.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
  • Gorilla
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    Should all be free to ESO+ subscribers.

    Otherwise you need to Learn 2 Pay.

  • BlazingDynamo
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    So I guess everyone in this thread wants to get charged every time they switch costumes? Sweet..

    I can't tell if you guys are geniuses or just plain ignorant.
  • Nihility42
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    So I guess everyone in this thread wants to get charged every time they switch costumes? Sweet..

    I can't tell if you guys are geniuses or just plain ignorant.

    Gold sinks are generally good for MMO economies, so I would rather pay a trivial fee for an outfit and have a healthier economy.
  • Recremen
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    Nihility42 wrote: »

    Gold sinks are generally good for MMO economies, so I would rather pay a trivial fee for an outfit and have a healthier economy.

    Adding new gold sinks is good if you don't have existing ones that work well. Judging by the price of goods on the guild traders, everything is still stable and we aren't seeing any kind of inflation. If anything, we're finding that most goods are falling in price due to an abundance on the market. This is PC NA, of course, idk how other platforms are doing.
    Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
    Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster
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