Trial Gears' Negative Effect on Builds
Dapper Dinosaur
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*DISCLAIMER* While I will be mentioning the grind for trial sets with Minor Slayer for the 3-item bonus, I AM NOT STRICTLY OPPOSED TO IT.
Everyone knows that, if you want to be a serious PVE DPS or Tank (in other words, veteran trials, DLC dungeon hardmodes, VMA, etc) you will have to run at least 3 pieces of a set that grants you Minor Slayer/Aegis (5% more damage given or 5% less damage received). This means you only really get to choose one set for your build and your monster set. This is extremely limiting.
What if I, as a sorcerer, wanted to try running 5 pieces of Mad Tinkerer and Netch's Touch? I could do that, but then I would lose Minor Slayer and my DPS would probably plummet straight into the ground. Same thing if I wanted to try running Netch's Touch and Necropotence, or Necropotence and Mad Tinkerer. Because Minor Slayer exists and can only be obtained through trial gear sets, my options are really only "do I want to fun Infallible or Moondancer with my 5 Necropotence?" That's not a choice of any real consequence.
Another example: I can't try running 5 piece Silks of the Sun and backbar-proc 5 piece Burning Spellweave on my magicka DK, because, again, if I did that I would lose my Minor Slayer and having both of these sets would probably still lead to a DPS loss on the one class in the game BOTH of those sets were basically designed for.
Minor Slayer/Aegis, as trail-gear-only passives, completely stifle build creativity for serious PVE players. Yes, you could PVE without it, but you will either never complete any content harder than an average veteran non-DLC dungeon or it will be monumentally harder to do so.
The grind for trial gear is also so much harder and longer because you can't just jump into a trial via group finder. You have to actually network and/or be online and in the right guilds and zones to catch a trial group forming or try to build one yourself. You also can't buy trial gear because of the trading limitations. I STILL have moondancer pieces I need even though I've run normal Maw at least 50 times, because it's such a crucial set due to Minor Slayer and very few people don't need to worry about it anymore.
I don't have a solution to propose to fix this, but even if I did, it would be highly unlikely Zenimax would do anything about it.
Edited by Dapper Dinosaur on January 7, 2018 1:28PM Everyone knows that, if you want to be a serious PVE DPS or Tank (in other words, veteran trials, DLC dungeon hardmodes, VMA, etc) you will have to run at least 3 pieces of a set that grants you Minor Slayer/Aegis (5% more damage given or 5% less damage received). This means you only really get to choose one set for your build and your monster set. This is extremely limiting.
What if I, as a sorcerer, wanted to try running 5 pieces of Mad Tinkerer and Netch's Touch? I could do that, but then I would lose Minor Slayer and my DPS would probably plummet straight into the ground. Same thing if I wanted to try running Netch's Touch and Necropotence, or Necropotence and Mad Tinkerer. Because Minor Slayer exists and can only be obtained through trial gear sets, my options are really only "do I want to fun Infallible or Moondancer with my 5 Necropotence?" That's not a choice of any real consequence.
Another example: I can't try running 5 piece Silks of the Sun and backbar-proc 5 piece Burning Spellweave on my magicka DK, because, again, if I did that I would lose my Minor Slayer and having both of these sets would probably still lead to a DPS loss on the one class in the game BOTH of those sets were basically designed for.
Minor Slayer/Aegis, as trail-gear-only passives, completely stifle build creativity for serious PVE players. Yes, you could PVE without it, but you will either never complete any content harder than an average veteran non-DLC dungeon or it will be monumentally harder to do so.
The grind for trial gear is also so much harder and longer because you can't just jump into a trial via group finder. You have to actually network and/or be online and in the right guilds and zones to catch a trial group forming or try to build one yourself. You also can't buy trial gear because of the trading limitations. I STILL have moondancer pieces I need even though I've run normal Maw at least 50 times, because it's such a crucial set due to Minor Slayer and very few people don't need to worry about it anymore.
I don't have a solution to propose to fix this, but even if I did, it would be highly unlikely Zenimax would do anything about it.
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Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seriously? You have no clue. You can go with 2 non-trial sets and be competitive in PvE. Necro/Julianos, BSW/Julianos, Sunderflame/Hundings, SUnderflame/NMG and so on are all good and usable setups. Minor Slayer Sets just allow you wo kinda use two 5pc-bonus in a 5/2/3(4) Setup.
Regarding minor aegis: I haven't used that on purpose since they released that when tanking, it's just useless bc of the way dmg-calculation is done.Noobplar11 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭I've literally never heard of or seen anyone in trials not using a set with Minor Slayer. Don't know about Minor Aegis.So what you’re saying is, can’t win don’t try?
I don't know what you're trying to say here.Edited by Dapper Dinosaur on January 7, 2018 1:33PM1 -
Aisle9✭✭✭✭✭
✭Minor Aegis is definitely not tank meta.
Current meta for tanks is Torug's Pact + Akaviri Dragonguard. One is a crafted set, the other is an overland set (Eastmarch). If you want to go defensive you go for Hist Bark.
Prior to that it was Ebon + Alkosh, and not for the 3 pieces set (Alkosh gives Minor Slayer, not Minor Aegis) but for the 5 pieces.
Let's try to get accurate information before making such bold statements.Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »I've literally never heard of or seen anyone in trials not using a set with Minor Slayer. Don't know about Minor Aegis.So what you’re saying is, can’t win don’t try?
I don't know what you're trying to say here.
Hundings's Rage + Sunderflame
Julianos + Necropotence
The fact you've never heard of it doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
Have a nice day.
Edited by Aisle9 on January 7, 2018 2:29PMArtemis Absinthe - DC magicka nightblade (PC - EU)
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FrostFallFox✭✭✭✭I disagree. I can run one 5pc, a monster set, and 3/4 trials slayer set, OR
I could run 5/5/1 and guess what? The DPS numbers are actually about the same! Actually higher deeps with 5 juli and 5 necro. Minor slayer is actually a bit overhyped imo. 35k+ without the bear sooo I don't see where this "plummet" in damage comes from.Edited by FrostFallFox on January 7, 2018 2:18PM\(^-,,-^)/2 -
ccfeeling✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Minor aegis?Lol
Zos knows nothing, no tanks need freaking Minor aegis,it cannot saves us
Well, i think they are always busy on crate items rofl, they never review the current game.
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SaintSubwayy✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »I've literally never heard of or seen anyone in trials not using a set with Minor Slayer. Don't know about Minor Aegis.So what you’re saying is, can’t win don’t try?
I don't know what you're trying to say here.
Stamina DK's dont always wear a Minor Slayer set, since they have such a variety of builds and groupsets.
Few Examples:
Briarheart + NMG for group pen
Sunder + Hundings for Group pen
Morag Tong + Hundings For more poison Dmg
Briarheart + Hundings for full dps
Yes you could change Briar and Hundings with VO, but the difference is so small that most ppl dont bother. and Hundings is so easy to get via crafting, so why bother farming VO daggers / axes.
And it also depends on the class, NB and Stamplars will use WM, so they have minor slayer anyways
Many magicka users play with a 5/2/3 setup and this limits the variety on builds, since there arent that many good 3pcs bonuses (excepts Minor Slayer) what should they run?^^Edited by SaintSubwayy on January 7, 2018 3:04PMPC EU
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Liofa✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »
Everyone knows that, if you want to be a serious PVE DPS or Tank (in other words, veteran trials, DLC dungeon hardmodes, VMA, etc) you will have to run at least 3 pieces of a set that grants you Minor Slayer/Aegis
I stopped reading here . I am sorry but I don't have to read more to understand that you have no idea about PvE . Especially about tanking .14 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭First, Minor Aegis is trash.
Second, your DPS will not "plummet" if you don't have Minor Slayer. 3p Willpower is comparable to 3p Minor Slayer, the difference is minor, and the current word record vMA scores were all done with Willpower jewelry rather than Minor Slayer jewelry.
Finally, every piece of content can be completed without Minor Slayer sets. If you can't, then it's a player problem, not a gear acquisition problem.Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
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Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Your DPS will plummet because Mad Tinkerer is just not a good set, not because losing minor slayer.
Also Minor Aegis bonus is nearly irrelevant because of how ESO calculates damage and diminishing returns.Make Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.3 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭Many magicka users play with a 5/2/3 setup and this limits the variety on builds, since there arent that many good 3pcs bonuses (excepts Minor Slayer) what should they run?^^
This might be where my ignorance is stemming from. I literally only play magicka characters.0 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭> loses 5% damage buff
MY DPS IS RUINED!!!!!!!
With the way MMOs work, there is literally no reason to not go with the best option for your build. This stifles creativity and makes builds mostly homogenous.
If, however, it really is not the case here, perhaps I will try 5 piece sun and 5 piece backbar spellweave on my magicka DK to see what kind of difference it actually makes.0 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Since % buffs are additive they difference is really small and sometimes willpower actually wins against trial gear 3piece it is just that willpower has no 4th piece that make a difference.(Minor slayer ~3.4% damage increase in realistically cases)
Also 5/5/1 sets setups are also really good.Edited by Zer0oo on January 7, 2018 3:49PM
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Magicka builds are going to be limited anyway because if you want a monster set and staves, you only have 9 slots left after the monster set. That means you have to do a front bar/back bar set or run a 5 piece with a 3 piece + AS/Master/VMA staff. Once you start looking at a 5/3/2+staff set, you are comparing only the sets with good 3-piece bonuses, where you've got Willpower and Minor Slayer as your better options. I'm sure there's a niche build with some of the other 3-piece bonuses somewhere, but they aren't common.
A solution might be to introduce new jewelry sets with better three piece bonuses that would be comparable to Minor Slayer. However, it might be difficult to do so when Minor Slayer is a powerful DPS buff but limited strictly to PVE content, meaning that it can't unbalance PVP at all. Any new 3-piece set bonuses presumably have to be balanced for both PVE and PVP.1 -
Dapper Dinosaur✭✭✭✭✭Well, you can technically run two 5-piece sets as a magicka character by either:
Running SnB/DW on the back bar with a proc set that gives you/enemies timed buffs/debuffs and/or can only happen once every X seconds, or
Running 4 pieces of both your non-monster sets with one weapon of each on your bars, so you can flip which one has 5 pieces, and run one of the sets as the aforementioned proc set, like Burning Spellweave or even moondancer.Edited by Dapper Dinosaur on January 7, 2018 4:05PM0 -
VaranisArano✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »Well, you can technically run two 5-piece sets as a magicka character by either:
Running SnB/DW on the back bar with a proc set that gives you/enemies timed buffs/debuffs and/or can only happen once every X seconds, or
Running 4 pieces of both your non-monster sets with one weapon of each on your bars, so you can flip which one has 5 pieces, and run one of the sets as the aforementioned proc set, like Burning Spellweave or even moondancer.
Like I said, you can run a front bar/back bar set for a 5/5 + monster set. I don't know how common using DW is as a magicka DPS, I did forget about that option. I can't imagine that S&B is too common.
But if you are running a 5/5 + Monster set, then you aren't limited to sets that have Minor Slayer unless you want to be. With a good rotation, you should be able to pull good DPS even without the Minor Slayer buff. Its when you are running 5/3 + Monster Set + staff that picking the most effective 3 piece bonus becomes so important.0 -
NiclasFridholm✭✭✭✭Minor slayer is kinda meh and you can get higher DPS with other sets/combos...Tobias Funke - Magplar since forever1 -
Mureel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Your DPS will plummet because Mad Tinkerer is just not a good set, not because losing minor slayer.
Also Minor Aegis bonus is nearly irrelevant because of how ESO calculates damage and diminishing returns.
I use mad tinkerer on my magblade when I'm farming mobs ic - just because it plain amuses me seeing a load of mobs getting knocked on their cans and sometimes farming is boring! But I'd never wear that for anything serious. xD0 -
Nolic1✭✭✭Minor slayer helps but does not make your damage plummet if you do not use.
Minor aegis is really only good if your build does not use alot of damage reduction in CP and use other sources for it.
See many builds are built with the use of those or not but they are not required in anyway for dungeons and trials cause there are other ways to reach high damage in ESO. The builds thatdo work the best with these are 5/3/2 build set ups and these can be stam or mag dps tanks do not run that set up very often unless they have a build they know really well for it and healers mostly use 5/5/1 set ups cause the option for other ways have not been found to be that good.Edited by Nolic1 on January 7, 2018 5:07PMSherman from Sherman's Gaming
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Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Minor Slayer is actually only about 3.5% extra DPS. It doesn't make or break your DPS. Not even close.
Minor Aegis is absolutely useless.@ Izaki #PCEU
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Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭As other people have said minor slayer isn't that big of a deal. The problem (for magika) is a lack of good 3-4 piece sets to go with your main set and a monster set. This is compounded by needing a vma staff and possibly using an asylum staff. If anything you should have complained about needing a vma staff to be competitive since that actually does significantly improve dps.0 -
Mazbt✭✭✭✭maelstrom bow and maelstrom destros do more for dps than minor slayer. You can farm that at your leisure. I don't know any competitive tanks who regularly (outside of a fun one time build for testing purposes) a minor aegis set.Edited by Mazbt on January 7, 2018 6:14PMMazari the Resurrected (AD)- PVP stamplar main
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Fantasia0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »
Everyone knows that, if you want to be a serious PVE DPS or Tank (in other words, veteran trials, DLC dungeon hardmodes, VMA, etc) you will have to run at least 3 pieces of a set that grants you Minor Slayer/Aegis
I stopped reading here . I am sorry but I don't have to read more to understand that you have no idea about PvE . Especially about tanking .
Agreed. Never heard of a Tank actively looking to get minor Aegis.1 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Dapper Dinosaur wrote: »What if I, as a sorcerer, wanted to try running 5 pieces of Mad Tinkerer and Netch's Touch? I could do that, but then I would lose Minor Slayer and my DPS would probably plummet straight into the ground. Same thing if I wanted to try running Netch's Touch and Necropotence, or Necropotence and Mad Tinkerer. Because Minor Slayer exists and can only be obtained through trial gear sets, my options are really only "do I want to fun Infallible or Moondancer with my 5 Necropotence?" That's not a choice of any real consequence.
I run Necro/Netch/Ilambris on my sorc and have zero issues completing any content that I have tried, including vet hard mode dungeons, vet trials, VMA, etc. If you think Minor Slayer is a necessity for good DPS numbers then I think your issue lies somewhere other than your sets.Edited by Diminish on January 10, 2018 1:26AM0 -
Diminish✭✭✭✭✭
✭Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »As other people have said minor slayer isn't that big of a deal. The problem (for magika) is a lack of good 3-4 piece sets to go with your main set and a monster set. This is compounded by needing a vma staff and possibly using an asylum staff. If anything you should have complained about needing a vma staff to be competitive since that actually does significantly improve dps.
This0
