Bloodroot Forge - Vet HM - How do you approach this fight?

code65536 · August 2017

My friends and I have cleared vBrF on Hard Mode four times now--once during the first week of PTS (before they buffed this fight in one of the later PTS patches), and then thrice on Live. And every single time we've beaten it on HM, it was a messy cluster***k where it felt like we scraped through by the skin of our teeth. Every time, lava was everywhere and we were teetering on the edge of wiping.

So we beat it, but it doesn't feel like we beat it, if that makes any sense. We don't have a reliable strategy or even a guarantee that we can beat it if we make no mistakes, because it just feels like no matter what we do, lava is going to cover the room in the late stages of the fight, and we no longer feel like we're in control over how the fight will go. In contrast, we're pretty confident that we can do the Vet HM final bosses for all 5 of the other DLC dungeons and reliably no-death them, and we always feel like we are in control in those fights.

And so my question is: Do other people feel the same way about the HM version of this fight? If not, then what's your strategy?

(Also, I think that vBrF HM is the hardest HM of all the DLC dungeons. And that vBrF non-HM is the easiest non-HM of the DLC dungeons. Non-HM is a joke, and it's shocking how wide of a gap there is between HM and non-HM. Which further makes me feel like there's something fundamentally wrong with how we're approaching HM.)

LadyNalcarya · August 2017

I would also like to know the actual strategy. XD We beat that boss relatively quickly, but I do feel like we got lucky at some points. Still, the fire minotaur seemed stronger than the last boss.
Btw, how it works on non-hardmode? My team wanted to get 2 keys so doing that was out of question, but Im curious.

code65536 · August 2017

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Btw, how it works on non-hardmode? My team wanted to get 2 keys so doing that was out of question, but Im curious.

In non-HM, you get two synergies that you can use. One dispels the lava and the other stops the boss's cave-in attack. It trivializes the fight and makes it incredibly easy. There is an achievement for completing the boss without using either synergy (which you'll get automatically if you do HM since they aren't available to you at all, kinda like the achievement surrounding the Reveal synergy in vRoM), and there are a couple of achievements that require that you do use the synergies (which are thus completable only if you do non-HM).

But without the ability to dispel the lava, the lava ends up covering so much of the room and everything just becomes a chaotic mess.

ValkynSketha · August 2017

Try this, all party members stack at tank, unless there is a sheild phase, tank move boss around the room on the edge of the circle.

code65536 · August 2017

ValkynSketha wrote: »

Try this, all party members stack at tank, unless there is a sheild phase, tank move boss around the room on the edge of the circle.

We had tried that on Tuesday. The first lava always goes behind the tank. Some of the subsequent lava will go behind our stack, but we saw one lava that went behind the boss, not in our direction, even though we were all stacked together as a group. Every time we think we figure out how the lava spawn behaves, the game does something that defies expectations. As far as we can tell, except for that first spawn, the lava just goes wherever the hell it wants.

Also, the stack-to-control-position strategy doesn't work that well late in the fight. Early in the fight, the formation is easy to maintain, but there are also few lava spawns. Once the boss splits into 2 and then 3 is when the vast, vast majority of the lava spawns happen, and at those later stages of the fight, thing become too chaotic to reliably maintain a formation, and even when we do manage to maintain formation, it just feels like the spawns are still happening everywhere regardless.

Lord_Magus · August 2017

Granted, I've only done the dungeon once with a PUG and it was late at night, so after we tried hm a couple of times and failed, we just went with non-hm to finish that thing. Didn't have the change to figure out more of that attack pattern but maybe someone else has a chance to see if that's the trick behind the lava pool spawn.

I think that the lava pools are a result of an attack the boss does. He rams his fist into the ground and you will see some smaller "pools" traveling forward in a line, appearing and disappearing, before the big pool spawns at the end. Which would also explain why there will spawn that many at the end when you have three of the guys all capable of doing said attack. So depending into which direction the boss looks and does the attack the pools spawns.

Samwell Slayer · August 2017

We tried our best to figure it out on our own by doing some fancy (and in hindsight dumb) things (having one dps kite an ad, etc), but at the end of the day it came down what everything does. Massive dps. Basically tank holds magma till the little crap shows up, ulti bomb and take him out. The masses of lava really don't get out of hand unless the three of them are up for a length of time.

xdbl0ckx · November 2017

Has anyone come up with a consistent strategy for this on HM? Same as OP my group can complete it but it always takes a few tries and only seems to happen when we get lucky with lava spawns?

code65536 · November 2017

xdbl0ckx wrote: »

Has anyone come up with a consistent strategy for this on HM? Same as OP my group can complete it but it always takes a few tries and only seems to happen when we get lucky with lava spawns?

I start with holding the boss off to the side, facing away from the center, so the first lava spawn goes to the wall. And maybe the second. And then I move the boss as needed, preferentially towards the center of the room so we have more leeway to adapt to spawn locations and aren't trapped on one side of the room.

That along with high DPS means we're at the point where, more often than not, we can clear HM on the first attempt. But lava RNG can still screw us, and I still haven't found a strategy or way to guarantee a 100% HM clear rate.

Jawasa · November 2017

As i understand it lava spawnes happen if a player get hit by the laga balls the boss shoot out. If you tank boss in mid and avoid lava it enda up at the edges of the room. Or this is was a Guy told me and it worked for us but i only did it once. Will return here with more data when i have helps guildies farm the helm for our pvp group.

Forsakiin · November 2017

Get the tank to taunt the boss(es) on the edge of the circular platform, then have the DDs and healer stack tightly just behind the tank on the outer edge. When the AoEs drop down, move together, side-stepping from left to right until its over. The lava pools should spawn close to the group (or sometimes on top of a you so watch out!). When they spawn, simply re-position around the edge of the circle where you aren't taking damage from them and keep repeating. When all 3 bosses are out you can all then move to the middle where there shouldn't be any lava and burn them down.

TankHealz2015 · November 2017

TANK Help Please:

My Build: Nord, DK, SnB both bars

Brands of Imperium (14-18k dmg shields- body)
Akavari Dragonguard (jewewlry and weapon sets) or Plague Doctor (all health stats)

Bloodspawn monster set (more ultimate + resist)

Should I use IceHeart (16-18k self dmg shield) or perhaps Bone Pirate (take -30% dmg) ?

Theme is to give giant dmg shields to group and often. Barrier up to 22k, igneous Shield (15k self), Bone Wall 73% health dmg shield

I get lots of compliments on my solidness and HUGE dmg shields. I have sped through vRoM and vCoS and all other content... but vBloodroot is giving me problems.

Last night, I had a rock solid group and it was ME that failed... (a terrible feeling). A tiny bit of lag on my end did not help, but I kept running out of Stamina during 3 bosses fight.

We had voice chat and leader was great.

1. Is there a better Tank armor set combination for this fight?
2. Do i just need to have a Templar in group always?

In the big fights, i find my self blocking even with a shield up cuz afraid --he will hit through the shield and one shot me...

I've swapped around enchants --- absorb stam/magika vs dmg shield and also food... going up and over 50k health..

I've watched the YouTube videos... honestly, we need more --- slow motion/ explanation videos. (hint, hint)

Im thinking just a couple minor tweaks will make the difference. Who can help?

---- after failing to complete vBrF twice with very solid groups... i went and did it on normal mode 2 times in a row and sped through like speedy racer....

I love the challenge,, but I must complete this. It is becoming an obsession....

Thoughts?

Cage_Lizardman · November 2017

I've tanked this a couple times, and it is quite hard unless you can keep block up all the time.

It's possible to dodge the heavy attacks, if you're not too fast and dodge as they hold their hand over their head. The problem is, sometimes they will do another heavy attack immediately afterwards, which will not be well advertised with the full animation. That same thing can happen if you lose taunt on one and get it back. So either way, it's necessary to keep block up most of the time.

Doing it with plague doctor+ebon with no points in stamina I can't particularly recommend. You definitely want a healer spamming heals and shards at you.

Sixty5 · November 2017

The strat I ran was pretty janky, but it got us through.

Mag Sorc (me) stood on the side with the Lava removal synergy, activating it as needed.
The rest of the group stand on the other side of the arena near the stun synergy, ready to hit it to interrupt.

From there it is pop synergies as needed, and then target whatever has the lowest HP.

Not gonna lie, its a rough fight, and that strat only works if you have a ranged DPS who can reliably survive on their own, but it worked.

code65536 · November 2017

Sixty5 wrote: »

The strat I ran was pretty janky, but it got us through.

Mag Sorc (me) stood on the side with the Lava removal synergy, activating it as needed.
The rest of the group stand on the other side of the arena near the stun synergy, ready to hit it to interrupt.

From there it is pop synergies as needed, and then target whatever has the lowest HP.

Not gonna lie, its a rough fight, and that strat only works if you have a ranged DPS who can reliably survive on their own, but it worked.

The synergies make this fight much easier, almost to the point of triviality. Unfortunately, the synergies are not available in HM, which makes HM a fight that leaves groups to the mercy of the RNG of lava spawn locations.

Roach1990 · November 2017

try do it with 3 dps it's better (vigor is better than healer

)
gear doesn't matter
40k+ hp is safe

vovus69 · November 2017

Try to use Dubious camoran throne drink - it will get you extra stam recovery.

-vovus

code65536 · November 2017

vovus69 wrote: »

Try to use Dubious camoran throne drink - it will get you extra stam recovery.

-vovus

Try reading the thread - it will get you extra context.

Horowonnoe · November 2017

@code65536 I was actually wondering the same thing when we were doing this HM with some friends. The best way we found so far was as you mentioned, to control the first couple spawns, then the tank goes to a new corner where lava hasn't spawned yet and tanks all the 3 bosses there. DPS kill it asap and don't die. It's certainly a dance of awareness and as a healer (which was me), it was a practice in awareness and applying HoT's.

But the motifs sell for a nice amount, so i definitely enjoy this fight. Despite not being able to control it 100%.

Horowonnoe · November 2017

Ah it's an old thread. Rip. : <

TankHealz2015 · November 2017

Vet Bloodroot Forge HM = watch and be amazed!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdjLOzsLbY

if link does not work... YouTube search: [DK Tank] Bloodroot Forge - no healer - HM, speedrun, no death

Published by: srsly FaileR

Perhaps someone could analyze this video and pick out some good advice for the rest of us "common folks"...

Drummerx04 · November 2017

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

Vet Bloodroot Forge HM = watch and be amazed!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rdjLOzsLbY

if link does not work... YouTube search: [DK Tank] Bloodroot Forge - no healer - HM, speedrun, no death

Published by: srsly FaileR

Perhaps someone could analyze this video and pick out some good advice for the rest of us "common folks"...

Have a good tank and at least 100k ST group dps is the summary provided by this video.

TankHealz2015 · November 2017

TankHealz2015 wrote: »

TANK Help Please:

My Build: Nord, DK, SnB both bars

Brands of Imperium (14-18k dmg shields- body)
Akavari Dragonguard (jewewlry and weapon sets) or Plague Doctor (all health stats)

Bloodspawn monster set (more ultimate + resist)

Should I use IceHeart (16-18k self dmg shield) or perhaps Bone Pirate (take -30% dmg) ?

Theme is to give giant dmg shields to group and often. Barrier up to 22k, igneous Shield (15k self), Bone Wall 73% health dmg shield

I get lots of compliments on my solidness and HUGE dmg shields. I have sped through vRoM and vCoS and all other content... but vBloodroot is giving me problems.

Last night, I had a rock solid group and it was ME that failed... (a terrible feeling). A tiny bit of lag on my end did not help, but I kept running out of Stamina during 3 bosses fight.

We had voice chat and leader was great.

1. Is there a better Tank armor set combination for this fight?
2. Do i just need to have a Templar in group always?

In the big fights, i find my self blocking even with a shield up cuz afraid --he will hit through the shield and one shot me...

I've swapped around enchants --- absorb stam/magika vs dmg shield and also food... going up and over 50k health..

I've watched the YouTube videos... honestly, we need more --- slow motion/ explanation videos. (hint, hint)

Im thinking just a couple minor tweaks will make the difference. Who can help?

---- after failing to complete vBrF twice with very solid groups... i went and did it on normal mode 2 times in a row and sped through like speedy racer....

I love the challenge,, but I must complete this. It is becoming an obsession....

Thoughts?

This has been my solid tanking build for a while now... but in Bloodroot Forge, i'm struggling.

Perhaps simply adding 3 block cost reduction glyphs to my jewelry would make the difference?

PS. Ive done vCoS and vRoM without problems.. (not HM yet though)

Kihamai · November 2017

There's a move he does that you can clearly see in the video three posts above where the tip of his hands will glow, he brings his fist into the air, then hits the ground, with a trail of lava going in a straight line where the boss is facing. Then a lava pool emerges once it hits a wall. Seems the tank just needs to position the boss(es) to face where they want the lava to go. I don't have tons of experience with the dungeon but from viewing that video, that's what it seems like is happening.

code65536 · November 2017

Calysis wrote: »

There's a move he does that you can clearly see in the video three posts above where the tip of his hands will glow, he brings his fist into the air, then hits the ground, with a trail of lava going in a straight line where the boss is facing. Then a lava pool emerges once it hits a wall. Seems the tank just needs to position the boss(es) to face where they want the lava to go. I don't have tons of experience with the dungeon but from viewing that video, that's what it seems like is happening.

The lava doesn't always appear at the wall.

The video shows a pretty lucky fight, where all the lava went to the wall. The distance the lava line travels before it spawns a lava pool is random. Sometimes it'll go all the way until it hits the wall. Sometimes it'll drop it right there, in the middle. You look at their video, and all the lava is around the walls. That sometimes happens to us. And sometimes the lava decides to drop in the middle in such a way that it denies us space to maneuver. And there's nothing you can do to control that. That's the whole point of this thread--asking if there is some way to control it or otherwise mitigate the RNG (aside from the obvious: by doing so much damage that the fight is over before RNG can screw you too badly).

Feanor · November 2017

@code65536

I’ve only done HM one time, but that one was weird. We activated HM, started the fight, and there was no lava at all. Boss was down in about 2 minutes and wasn’t doing much. We were thoroughly disappointed. Must have bugged out or something.

Drummerx04 · November 2017

Feanor wrote: »

@code65536

I’ve only done HM one time, but that one was weird. We activated HM, started the fight, and there was no lava at all. Boss was down in about 2 minutes and wasn’t doing much. We were thoroughly disappointed. Must have bugged out or something.

Yeah, if the boss didn't do anything for you, then that was a glitch.

My group with @code65536 actually ran into another glitch ONCE where the third boss never actually spawned which also made the fight pretty trivially easy. Of course no one was recording, so we have very little idea of why that happened and were unable to reproduce it.

s7732425ub17_ESO · November 2017

Does the lava pool attack always face a player? So if 4 players stack in front of the boss, will the lava pools always go out from the front? Or will the boss still turn randomly and do the lava pools?

TheNightflame · December 2017

I don't know if this is intended, but on our third try my group tried switching dps to the medium boss when he spawned. when the mini spawned he had incredibly low health and died almost instantly.

Strider__Roshin · December 2017

I press forward on my left analog stick.