Zergs happen because there is only really the centre to fight over unless one campaign is trash and you can go grab scrolls. Its the fact that there is little viable or worth fighting over as a smaller group/solo player for rewards.
They have no drawback to zerging aside from slightly lower AP, which is made up for by not dying as much and killing more.
They exist because anything that harms them was cried away. (Case in point, dynamic ult, though a bit OP, and blazing shield builds.)
A key aspect of ESOs AVA style combat, but the way they are currently is fun for no one. Unkillable balls of idiots who have to think of nothing just spam attacks, if they die, no matter. They get rezzed instantly. Anything that can combat zergs is taken away too. Dynamic ultimate, nerfed. Blazing shield builds, nerfed. (The fact that they dealt near no damage without being hit meant it was balanced) Proxy, nerfed. (Fair) Even block builds who can really only do damage when hit on with multiple targets get nerfed.
What I would change:
- Readd a lesser form of dynamic ultimate. On top of the current ult gen we have now. This won't be too OP, but will still help.
- Buff and add more abilities/sets that scale well against multiple targets. Things like proxy, blazing, seventh and fury. Things like shimmering/wings should be per person. General stuff to not be streamrolled.
- Remove all AoE caps completely, aside from effects that have low targets purposefully. (Jabs extra st damage and shalk st stun.) Things like encase or permafrost should damage and stun anyone able to be stunned within the range, whether its 1 or 100 people.
- Make rezzing more difficult. When rezzing in PvP there should be a cost. maybe health, ulti or something? And those who have been rezzed shouldn't be able to res themselves for 1min. This would less affect coordinated groups, more large masses who can just shrug off any death.
- Limit healing to two people in PvP. How this would work. When healed, it'd assign two healers to a player for x seconds, (yourself not included) and for that X seconds, you can only be healed by yourself or two healers. This won't affect small groups, and healers can still heal multiple players, just bigger groups can't stack them and heal through everything. Players would have to look out for there own health bar a little more. PvP only Maybe even reduce all external healing. So anything not healed by themselves is reduced. However for this the achievements will have to be changed.
- Nerf abilities/sets that allow zergs to take no damage/Xv1 hard. Soul assault, snipe spam, earth gore, the ability to camp high up and spam ranged trash without fear, (Chains and gapclosers outside of keeps should take you to them/vice versa.)
- EDIT: Limiting snares to a maj/min system. Stam warden can deal with it, but other classes have to sacrifice a lot and it just sucks. Break free? Snared 70% and zerged down.
On snipe spam, i'd make it have to be aimed, like a long, narrow soul assault, but remove the cast time and be faster/unblockable if it hits and do more damage at range, so it would require skill to use, but able to work as a spammable and be very damaging.
VaranisArano wrote: »WillhelmBlack wrote: »I would just roll back to 1.5. Make it a subscription only server to fund it.
Soft Caps
Dynamic ulti regen
No CP's (they've had to nerf all classes passives because of this stupid system)
No AoE caps!
Given that the paywall killed Battlegrounds even more than CP did, good luck.
A key aspect of ESOs AVA style combat, but the way they are currently is fun for no one. Unkillable balls of idiots who have to think of nothing just spam attacks, if they die, no matter. They get rezzed instantly. Anything that can combat zergs is taken away too. Dynamic ultimate, nerfed. Blazing shield builds, nerfed. (The fact that they dealt near no damage without being hit meant it was balanced) Proxy, nerfed. (Fair) Even block builds who can really only do damage when hit on with multiple targets get nerfed.
What I would change:
- Readd a lesser form of dynamic ultimate. On top of the current ult gen we have now. This won't be too OP, but will still help.
- Buff and add more abilities/sets that scale well against multiple targets. Things like proxy, blazing, seventh and fury. Things like shimmering/wings should be per person. General stuff to not be streamrolled.
- Remove all AoE caps completely, aside from effects that have low targets purposefully. (Jabs extra st damage and shalk st stun.) Things like encase or permafrost should damage and stun anyone able to be stunned within the range, whether its 1 or 100 people.
- Make rezzing more difficult. When rezzing in PvP there should be a cost. maybe health, ulti or something? And those who have been rezzed shouldn't be able to res themselves for 1min. This would less affect coordinated groups, more large masses who can just shrug off any death.
- Limit healing to two people in PvP. How this would work. When healed, it'd assign two healers to a player for x seconds, (yourself not included) and for that X seconds, you can only be healed by yourself or two healers. This won't affect small groups, and healers can still heal multiple players, just bigger groups can't stack them and heal through everything. Players would have to look out for there own health bar a little more. PvP only Maybe even reduce all external healing. So anything not healed by themselves is reduced. However for this the achievements will have to be changed.
- Nerf abilities/sets that allow zergs to take no damage/Xv1 hard. Soul assault, snipe spam, earth gore, the ability to camp high up and spam ranged trash without fear, (Chains and gapclosers outside of keeps should take you to them/vice versa.)
- EDIT: Limiting snares to a maj/min system. Stam warden can deal with it, but other classes have to sacrifice a lot and it just sucks. Break free? Snared 70% and zerged down.
On snipe spam, i'd make it have to be aimed, like a long, narrow soul assault, but remove the cast time and be faster/unblockable if it hits and do more damage at range, so it would require skill to use, but able to work as a spammable and be very damaging.
Just a bunch of really bad suggestions, it's unusual though to see so many all in one place at once...
Group purge is the problem...you want a purge, you have to synergize is my oppinion
I have no idea whether this thread is about ball-groups or actual zergs.
OP ses to be talking about ball groups, but calls them zergs, and now the thread seems all mixed up with people throwing in their opinions of A any people disagreeing because they think they are talking about B.
Its all very confusing...
Stay fruity out there!
I have no idea whether this thread is about ball-groups or actual zergs.
OP ses to be talking about ball groups, but calls them zergs, and now the thread seems all mixed up with people throwing in their opinions of A any people disagreeing because they think they are talking about B.
Its all very confusing...
Stay fruity out there!
I suppose its more the ball groups, pugs of 12-24 that jump on solo/duo/trio players and just delete them. But it affects "true" zergs too.
This isn't even saying remake 1.5 DKs, its more give players defenses a fighting chance against multiple people with decent scaling defense/offense.
I have no idea whether this thread is about ball-groups or actual zergs.
OP ses to be talking about ball groups, but calls them zergs, and now the thread seems all mixed up with people throwing in their opinions of A any people disagreeing because they think they are talking about B.
Its all very confusing...
Stay fruity out there!
I suppose its more the ball groups, pugs of 12-24 that jump on solo/duo/trio players and just delete them. But it affects "true" zergs too.
This isn't even saying remake 1.5 DKs, its more give players defenses a fighting chance against multiple people with decent scaling defense/offense.
Pugs are not ball groups. There is a huge difference between a bunch of pugs and a group composed specifically for balling up with everyone just spamming their role and bombing on crowns calls.
I have no idea whether this thread is about ball-groups or actual zergs.
OP ses to be talking about ball groups, but calls them zergs, and now the thread seems all mixed up with people throwing in their opinions of A any people disagreeing because they think they are talking about B.
Its all very confusing...
Stay fruity out there!
I suppose its more the ball groups, pugs of 12-24 that jump on solo/duo/trio players and just delete them. But it affects "true" zergs too.
This isn't even saying remake 1.5 DKs, its more give players defenses a fighting chance against multiple people with decent scaling defense/offense.
Pugs are not ball groups. There is a huge difference between a bunch of pugs and a group composed specifically for balling up with everyone just spamming their role and bombing on crowns calls.
Maybe I'm not too up on the latest hip lingo.
I consider zergs the 20+ groups, generally spammy pugs. Ball groups as smaller zergs, and what you described to be an organized group. Which generally you won't win against even if all my changes go through. (never going to happen lel.)
This is generally against the spammy pugs who only win from sheer numbers.
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »if you’re not in an organized group using discord or TS yeah, you’re going to lose then subsequently complain that you are getting steam rolled by zergs. Even though there is a clear cut difference between a Zerg of disorganized players and a full raid of organized players. I’m not talking “put x in chat, TS required” groups. That’s not organized. It’s randoms. A real organized group isn’t a “bunch of idiots” as you say, it’s quite the opposite. Specialized roles and required builds, tactics and strategy that leads to victory 9/10 times against an enemy force twice the size. I know some people don’t like having to build how someone else tells them too but that order and discipline is key to success. It’s an AvAvA large scale war. Battlegrounds should of been a good answer for small scale but they ruined it with CP...
Waffennacht wrote: »If the Zergs had no one to fight, would they stay a Zerg?
Imo, if you wanna do something about Zergs, just play BGs, we need numbers
VaranisArano wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »if you’re not in an organized group using discord or TS yeah, you’re going to lose then subsequently complain that you are getting steam rolled by zergs. Even though there is a clear cut difference between a Zerg of disorganized players and a full raid of organized players. I’m not talking “put x in chat, TS required” groups. That’s not organized. It’s randoms. A real organized group isn’t a “bunch of idiots” as you say, it’s quite the opposite. Specialized roles and required builds, tactics and strategy that leads to victory 9/10 times against an enemy force twice the size. I know some people don’t like having to build how someone else tells them too but that order and discipline is key to success. It’s an AvAvA large scale war. Battlegrounds should of been a good answer for small scale but they ruined it with CP...
This. A raid that trains together, runs close together, and has a mixture of roles for support, healing, and damage is going to dominate the battlefield because of superior organization and execution of tactics. Gear sets and meta skills will come and go, organization and training carries the day.
Organized raid v PUGs is a slaughter, 9 times out of 10. Organized raid v organized raid has been some of the best PVP I've ever experienced. But then, I enjoy group combat and playing support roles. I certainly understand the people who prefer 1v1 or small group or PUGing it, and I've done all of those, but my preferred playstyle is definitely playing with a trained, organized, raid.
I have no idea whether this thread is about ball-groups or actual zergs.
OP ses to be talking about ball groups, but calls them zergs, and now the thread seems all mixed up with people throwing in their opinions of A any people disagreeing because they think they are talking about B.
Its all very confusing...
Stay fruity out there!
I suppose its more the ball groups, pugs of 12-24 that jump on solo/duo/trio players and just delete them. But it affects "true" zergs too.
This isn't even saying remake 1.5 DKs, its more give players defenses a fighting chance against multiple people with decent scaling defense/offense.
Pugs are not ball groups. There is a huge difference between a bunch of pugs and a group composed specifically for balling up with everyone just spamming their role and bombing on crowns calls.
Make up your mind, you want people in pvp or not? Take the good with the bad, war isn't supposed to be fair.
deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »VaranisArano wrote: »deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »if you’re not in an organized group using discord or TS yeah, you’re going to lose then subsequently complain that you are getting steam rolled by zergs. Even though there is a clear cut difference between a Zerg of disorganized players and a full raid of organized players. I’m not talking “put x in chat, TS required” groups. That’s not organized. It’s randoms. A real organized group isn’t a “bunch of idiots” as you say, it’s quite the opposite. Specialized roles and required builds, tactics and strategy that leads to victory 9/10 times against an enemy force twice the size. I know some people don’t like having to build how someone else tells them too but that order and discipline is key to success. It’s an AvAvA large scale war. Battlegrounds should of been a good answer for small scale but they ruined it with CP...
This. A raid that trains together, runs close together, and has a mixture of roles for support, healing, and damage is going to dominate the battlefield because of superior organization and execution of tactics. Gear sets and meta skills will come and go, organization and training carries the day.
Organized raid v PUGs is a slaughter, 9 times out of 10. Organized raid v organized raid has been some of the best PVP I've ever experienced. But then, I enjoy group combat and playing support roles. I certainly understand the people who prefer 1v1 or small group or PUGing it, and I've done all of those, but my preferred playstyle is definitely playing with a trained, organized, raid.
And what’s funny is even though I run with a organized guild I still actually prefer solo or small group lol. It’s a great sight to see when we roll through twice the enemy numbers but there is something more fun about running solo to me. Maybe more gratification from victories as I achieve them all by myself? Either way, both play styles are fun and people need to learn to adapt to any given situation.