We need to do something about the zergbads.

ak_pvp

A key aspect of ESOs AVA style combat, but the way they are currently is fun for no one. Unkillable balls of idiots who have to think of nothing just spam attacks, if they die, no matter. They get rezzed instantly. Anything that can combat zergs is taken away too. Dynamic ultimate, nerfed. Blazing shield builds, nerfed. (The fact that they dealt near no damage without being hit meant it was balanced) Proxy, nerfed. (Fair) Even block builds who can really only do damage when hit on with multiple targets get nerfed.

What I would change:

• Readd a lesser form of dynamic ultimate. On top of the current ult gen we have now. This won't be too OP, but will still help.
• Buff and add more abilities/sets that scale well against multiple targets. Things like proxy, blazing, seventh and fury. Things like shimmering/wings should be per person. General stuff to not be streamrolled.
• Remove all AoE caps completely, aside from effects that have low targets purposefully. (Jabs extra st damage and shalk st stun.) Things like encase or permafrost should damage and stun anyone able to be stunned within the range, whether its 1 or 100 people.
• Make rezzing more difficult. When rezzing in PvP there should be a cost. maybe health, ulti or something? And those who have been rezzed shouldn't be able to res themselves for 1min. This would less affect coordinated groups, more large masses who can just shrug off any death.
• Limit healing to two people in PvP. How this would work. When healed, it'd assign two healers to a player for x seconds, (yourself not included) and for that X seconds, you can only be healed by yourself or two healers. This won't affect small groups, and healers can still heal multiple players, just bigger groups can't stack them and heal through everything. Players would have to look out for there own health bar a little more. PvP only Maybe even reduce all external healing. So anything not healed by themselves is reduced. However for this the achievements will have to be changed.
• Nerf abilities/sets that allow zergs to take no damage/Xv1 hard. Soul assault, snipe spam, earth gore, the ability to camp high up and spam ranged trash without fear, (Chains and gapclosers outside of keeps should take you to them/vice versa.)
• EDIT: Limiting snares to a maj/min system. Stam warden can deal with it, but other classes have to sacrifice a lot and it just sucks. Break free? Snared 70% and zerged down.

On snipe spam, i'd make it have to be aimed, like a long, narrow soul assault, but remove the cast time and be faster/unblockable if it hits and do more damage at range, so it would require skill to use, but able to work as a spammable and be very damaging.

CatchMeTrolling

Most of the things that helped against zergs ironically got nerfed because small scale players complained about the zergers also using them.

ak_pvp

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Most of the things that helped against zergs ironically got nerfed because small scale players complained about the zergers also using them.

Really only proxy/destro. If they add some changes that aren't blankety and instead dynamic based on whats happening around you then it'd be fine. Like dynamic ulti that scales of how many targets you actually hurt/take damage from (above a threshold, no zergs ulti spamming with light attacks.)

Waffennacht

If the Zergs had no one to fight, would they stay a Zerg?

Imo, if you wanna do something about Zergs, just play BGs, we need numbers

ak_pvp

Waffennacht wrote: »

If the Zergs had no one to fight, would they stay a Zerg?

Imo, if you wanna do something about Zergs, just play BGs, we need numbers

Yes, zergs fight other zergs until people log off and one side wins. Look at AD night cap in vivec. No one to fight and still group of 10+

I really only do BGs, since I don't have much time, and would prefer not to spend it running between keeps and being zerged to sadness. But even that is just heal stackers.

Waffennacht

ak_pvp wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

If the Zergs had no one to fight, would they stay a Zerg?

Imo, if you wanna do something about Zergs, just play BGs, we need numbers

Yes, zergs fight other zergs until people log off and one side wins. Look at AD night cap in vivec. No one to fight and still group of 10+

I really only do BGs, since I don't have much time, and would prefer not to spend it running between keeps and being zerged to sadness. But even that is just heal stackers.

I agree! After BGs - constant action/ no horse simulator, I can't bring myself to really do Cyrodiil anymore.

O_LYKOS

It's funny that a game like this, how its played, the way Cyrodiil is designed, people still complain about zergs.

Great battles of war such as Cyrodiil don't happen between small groups. They're fight to the death between armies.

CatchMeTrolling

O_LYKOS wrote: »

It's funny that a game like this, how its played, the way Cyrodiil is designed, people still complain about zergs.

Great battles of war such as Cyrodiil don't happen between small groups. They're fight to the death between armies.

I wouldn't say that the best fights I've had in cyrodiil was outnumbered but I can agree that complaining about zergs is pointless, it's the way of the game. Albeit the real issue isn't the zergs is how those zergs decide to play like a 24 man raid shouldn't be mounting up chasing down one player or ult bombing them.

CatchMeTrolling

ak_pvp wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

Most of the things that helped against zergs ironically got nerfed because small scale players complained about the zergers also using them.

Really only proxy/destro. If they add some changes that aren't blankety and instead dynamic based on whats happening around you then it'd be fine. Like dynamic ulti that scales of how many targets you actually hurt/take damage from (above a threshold, no zergs ulti spamming with light attacks.)

There should be some type of smart radius that plays a role on damage and healing but I don't see zos implementing a system like that nor do I see the majority agreeing with that.

Vaoh

You are years late by now trying to save Cyrodiil. It has already been permanently ruined. There’s nothing ZOS can even do at this point to bring it back, and assuming they had the intention to, it makes no sense why they would let it die down like this in the first place.

The reason people enter Cyrodiil now is for Transmute Crystals which they purposely made easier to get from PvPing on multiple characters.

CyrusArya

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Great battles of war such as Cyrodiil don't happen between small groups. They're fight to the death between armies.

I do see your point. But some of the greatest battles/campaigns of war in human history involved “small groups” over coming far larger armies that had exponentially greater resources through tactics and cunning. Alexander’s Conquest of the Persian Empire to give rise to “Western” civilization, Arab domination of the Roman and Persian Empires (at the same time) to establish the Caliphate, and the American Colonists victory over the British Empire to create the United States are 3 such examples that changed the history of the world and humanity forever.

You know what all three of these have in common? The victors who won against earth shattering odds did so with strategy military genius. Not smashing zegbads against each other.....because one party could not afford to do so.

All that being said, war is war and a game is a game. My bottom line is that no one should get exclusive benefits or handicaps based on simply the size of their group. So something like AoE caps make no sense to me.

Xsorus

Buff Prox Det back to being non *** mode and that'd go a long way.

They nerfed Prox Det pretty heavily, then proceeded to add in Destro Ult which benefits Zergs more then small groups.

Feanor

No matter what you change - numbers will always win. If people will feel more vulnerable the answer will be to zerg even harder. It’s a natural and legitimate solution to the insane damage flying around these days, however much we dislike it.

TheDoomsdayMonster

Waffennacht wrote: »

If the Zergs had no one to fight, would they stay a Zerg?

Imo, if you wanna do something about Zergs, just play BGs, we need numbers

Or do Imperial City (as I do) when you are not in the mood to deal with zergs...

Adenoma

@CyrusArya , completely agree about AOE caps. That said, I think a lot of people want mechanics that empower small groups. Personally, I don't. I derive my satisfaction from being disadvantaged and wiping larger groups. I hate the small group, anti-zerg dialogue that has become the norm in ESO dialogue. What the heck is the point if we are on equal footing? Where did the challenge go?

NinchiTV

I'd be fine with the max number for a group to be reduced to 12 or 8, or after 12 people join you lose a good portion of AP gained like a penalty. But cyrodiil is war and war is won by numbers and being strategic so I expect it to be zerg v zerg honestly.

Jawasa

I dont think group size limits will change anything. Most so called zergs are solo players or at least 50% of the zerg is.

Freecry

Jawasa wrote: »

I dont think group size limits will change anything. Most so called zergs are solo players or at least 50% of the zerg is.

i agree this
On DC side Vivec EU, may be 1 or 2 inorganized groups of 24 players (generaly low cp and chalmania).
2 or 3 guild groups of 10-12 players playing AP.
Others (no group players) going where fights are.

An execption however: TDA that usually organizes a group of 24 with a vocal...

chris211

Zerging is and always will be part of pvp if you want small scale stick to ganking back keeps of the other alliances or stop complaining and go play bg

Qbiken

I would like to see a reduction of the maximum number of people who can be grouped. The suggestion isn´t mine, but come from a friend of mine who spends a lot more time in Cyrodil than I do. His suggestion is to lower the groupsize down from 24 to 12 or 16.

Jawasa wrote: »

I dont think group size limits will change anything. Most so called zergs are solo players or at least 50% of the zerg is.

Maybe it will, maybe it won´t. But wouldn´t it be interesting to try it out for like a week and see what people think about it?? Similar how ZOS tried (was it a week????) the no-cp time in all campaigns.

Rohamad_Ali

Zergs of unkillable bad players you say ? Cyrodiil is no longer fun ?




Pff saw that coming four months ago . Is why a bunch of us left . Worse meta ever .

Mayrael

Ummm nerf Cleanse in PvP? Add a cooldown or make it that sieges effects cant be removed... or MAYBE change one morph of negate to move with the caster (no heal, no damage, just move) but this could be OP in other scenarios.

Jawasa

@Qbiken Well it might be good for My guild We normaly dont get over 12 players and then We get run over by 16+ uf in vivec. Atleast Then We just get outplayed hehe.

ezeepeezee

We just need more objectives, and random occurrences that have to be searched for.

More capturable, STRATEGIC objectives.

Random spawns/drops in delves that give a buff like the AP buff for killing bosses.

Incentivize people to spread and they will spread.

DHale

I would simply be happy with them eliminating lag.

VaranisArano

Zergs happen because Cyrodiil supports objective based gameplay.

When multiple organized raids + pugs converged on the same objective at the same time, they do so because that objective is important to their faction at that time. Everyone does this. It happens organically.

Oh, and for everyone asking people to spread out...Spreading out equals PvDooring. Don't ask people to spread out and then complain about PvDoor.

Huh? I don't want PvDoor! Let's say my guild strikes out from the main corridor of combat between Aleswell to Chalman in order to capture Fort Dragonclaw. Dragonclaw is probably undefended or lightly defended because again, there's a main corridor of combat between Aleswell and Chalman. When that happens, are we spreading out or PvDooring? We're hitting a fort outside of the main corridor - that's spreading out the combat. Go us! But, because its outside of the main corridor of combat, its also a very likely PvDoor take. Bad us! Spreading out the combat in service of objectives leads to PvDoor.

So if I'm playing the map for objectives, chances are I'll wind up in a zerg of other players who can see that this objective is also important. That's a good thing because it means other players can read the map.

If I spread out to objectives other than the main corridors of combat, chances are I'm going to PvDoor undefended or lightly defended keeps unless defenders also pull off of the main corridors of combat in time to stop me. Then, everyone will complain about me PvDooring.

Zergs happen as a organic consequence of objective based play. PvDoor happens as a natural consequence of having major fights between important objectives while groups spread out from those major fights. All of this happens because of how Cyrodiil is designed - to have objective based gameplay.

WillhelmBlack

I would just roll back to 1.5. Make it a subscription only server to fund it.

Soft Caps
Dynamic ulti regen
No CP's (they've had to nerf all classes passives because of this stupid system)
No AoE caps!

NordSwordnBoard

Buff Meatbags! Standing for 2 seconds within red circle forces your toon to do the sick emote.

VaranisArano

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

I would just roll back to 1.5. Make it a subscription only server to fund it.

Soft Caps
Dynamic ulti regen
No CP's (they've had to nerf all classes passives because of this stupid system)
No AoE caps!

Given that the paywall killed Battlegrounds even more than CP did, good luck.

WillhelmBlack

ezeepeezee wrote: »

We just need more objectives, and random occurrences that have to be searched for.

More capturable, STRATEGIC objectives.

Random spawns/drops in delves that give a buff like the AP buff for killing bosses.

Incentivize people to spread and they will spread.

I've suggested this so many times. I'd like to see Daedric artifacts spawn across Cyrodiil and when collected give a nice little buff to your group. They could spawn anywhere, dungeons, mines, pits, ruins, bridges etc. Would be so cool.

ak_pvp

VaranisArano wrote: »

Zergs happen because Cyrodiil supports objective based gameplay.

When multiple organized raids + pugs converged on the same objective at the same time, they do so because that objective is important to their faction at that time. Everyone does this. It happens organically.

Oh, and for everyone asking people to spread out...Spreading out equals PvDooring. Don't ask people to spread out and then complain about PvDoor.

Huh? I don't want PvDoor! Let's say my guild strikes out from the main corridor of combat between Aleswell to Chalman in order to capture Fort Dragonclaw. Dragonclaw is probably undefended or lightly defended because again, there's a main corridor of combat between Aleswell and Chalman. When that happens, are we spreading out or PvDooring? We're hitting a fort outside of the main corridor - that's spreading out the combat. Go us! But, because its outside of the main corridor of combat, its also a very likely PvDoor take. Bad us! Spreading out the combat in service of objectives leads to PvDoor.

So if I'm playing the map for objectives, chances are I'll wind up in a zerg of other players who can see that this objective is also important. That's a good thing because it means other players can read the map.

If I spread out to objectives other than the main corridors of combat, chances are I'm going to PvDoor undefended or lightly defended keeps unless defenders also pull off of the main corridors of combat in time to stop me. Then, everyone will complain about me PvDooring.

Zergs happen as a organic consequence of objective based play. PvDoor happens as a natural consequence of having major fights between important objectives while groups spread out from those major fights. All of this happens because of how Cyrodiil is designed - to have objective based gameplay.

Zergs happen because there is only really the centre to fight over unless one campaign is trash and you can go grab scrolls. Its the fact that there is little viable or worth fighting over as a smaller group/solo player for rewards.

They have no drawback to zerging aside from slightly lower AP, which is made up for by not dying as much and killing more.

They exist because anything that harms them was cried away. (Case in point, dynamic ult, though a bit OP, and blazing shield builds.)