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Soul Assault needs counterplay
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@Sharee Im not complaining, im explaining. The point is that only that kind of rock gets destroyed by paper, other types of rocks can deal with it just fine, in fact, those rocks can deal with all kinds of paper and scissors very reasonably. Forcing a build archetype to use something that will be a dead skill that has no synergy with the build whatsoever (mist form) is not a reasonable counter.
All that aside, in my last few statements i pointed out why this type of gameplay is unskillful and unenjoyable to many ppl, so even the fact the rock-paper-scissors exist is a problem.
But you know, you actually pointed out the reason why no one plays medium - it has very polarized weaknesses, a lot of them, while other armor types dont.Edited by Ultimate_Overlord on November 23, 2017 10:20AM3 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Apart from shieldbreaker vs magicka sorc, there is no equivalent to soul assault vs medium armor for light and heavy builds. If your light/heavy build is good (even if its built as a glass cannon), it can survive any combination of skills without having to change your build if you play properly. By your logic, medium builds and magicka sorcs facing shieldbreaker are the only balanced builds in the game.
Allow me to quote myself here:
"If a build allows you to face anything without having to make compromises and without having to change playstyles and adapting to whatever you are fighting, then *that* would be a problem, in my opinion."
You say the only equivalent to soul assault vs medium is shieldbreaker vs magicka sorc.
I say we need more of these counters, not less.
I think you have the definition of "counter" messed up. Really messed up.
Yeah lets make all abilities go through roll, dodge and block. Seriously what could possibly go wrong. Everyone running around pressing one button. Everyone is a noob, everyone is a top player. Everyone can 1vX, no one can 1vX. Top notch PVP. Really skill based.3 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »Forcing a build archetype to use something that will be a dead skill that has no synergy with the build whatsoever (mist form) is not a reasonable counter.
You are not forced into anything. You can simply accept that your build has a vulnerability to certain enemies if it does not slot specific counters. Just like my NB accepts to have a vulnerability to piercing mark if i do not slot purge. Etc. etc.
As for noone using medium - i use medium as it happens. I play an orc DK werewolf. When people try to soul assault me down, i usually transform and eat their faces while they are unable to block.Edited by Sharee on November 23, 2017 11:35AM1 -
@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.1
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
The comparison lies in the principle. If you do not slot purge as a NB you are more vulnerable to mark than a NB who does. To what degree more vulnerable is a matter of subjective opinion. With mistform and SA its the same. You do not slot the obvious counter, you willingly make yourself more vulnerable than you need to be.Edited by Sharee on November 23, 2017 2:01PM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
The comparison lies in the principle. If you do not slot purge as a NB you are more vulnerable to mark than a NB who does. To what degree more vulnerable is a matter of subjective opinion. With mistform and SA its the same. You do not slot the obvious counter, you willingly make yourself more vulnerable than you need to be.
Just because the principle is the same it doesnt mean that ur comparison is good or that it makes sense. It doesnt.
Thats like comparing a burglar with a serial killer. Yes they both did illegal acts but its not the same. Not even close and thats not a matter of subjective opinion.
When it comes to mark, If you do not slot the obvious counter (purge), you are not prety much getting screwed. You still have a lot of ways to survive. Mark is a counter but it doesnt shut down ur entire defense. That is actually skilful gameplay. That is actually a prety good way to tell how good a NB actually is. How well they can survive without cloak on a relatively squishy class by utilizing the rest of their available defenses without changing their entire playstyle.
This is not the same with shieldbreaker or SA (vs medium). Thats not a matter of subjective opinion, thats a fact.
You have a very twisted definition of what "counter" actually means. You somehow believe that running around pressing one button and abusing the ever living [snip] out of everyone, is good gameplay and thats what we should be promoting. Unfortunately this is the idea of PVP for quite some time now and thats why is so bad.
[Edited to remove profanity]Edited by ZOS_KatP on November 24, 2017 4:29PM4 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
The comparison lies in the principle. If you do not slot purge as a NB you are more vulnerable to mark than a NB who does. To what degree more vulnerable is a matter of subjective opinion. With mistform and SA its the same. You do not slot the obvious counter, you willingly make yourself more vulnerable than you need to be.
Just because the principle is the same it doesnt mean that ur comparison is good or that it makes sense. It doesnt.
Thats like comparing a burglar with a serial killer. Yes they both did illegal acts but its not the same. Not even close and thats not a matter of subjective opinion.
You would have a point if the comparison/analogy was about the severity of the issue. In this case your burglar/killer would be spot-on. Soul assault is far more deadly than piercing mark.
However, the comparison/analogy i was making is instead about the ability of the player to use a specific counter (and the decision to not do it), e.g. "the principle", as i called it above. In your real world example, it would be like giving examples of criminal behavior. In this case, i can list both the burglar and the killer next to each other just fine.when it comes to mark, If you do not slot the obvious counter (purge), you are not prety much getting screwed. You still have a lot of ways to survive. Mark is a counter but it doesnt shut down ur entire defense. That is actually skilful gameplay. That is actually a prety good way to tell how good a NB actually is. How well they can survive without cloak on a relatively squishy class by utilizing the rest of their available defenses without changing their entire playstyle.
This is not the same with shieldbreaker or SA (vs medium). Thats not a matter of subjective opinion, thats a fact.
No, it is not a fact, it is just your opinion. As you may have missed in my previous posts, i happen to play a medium armor character and SA does not pose significantly higher threat to me than other abilities do. And its a werewolf, so no mistform. I simply take advantage of the fact that an enemy using soul assault pretty much stuns itself for the duration, and besides doing damage with the beam is completely defenseless.
I also do not agree with your assessment that slotting one ability and increasing your magicka a bit to be able to use it constitutes "changing the entire playstyle".
Switching from heavy armor block build that stands in the middle of enemy zergs to a light armor shieldstacker that bolts around the outskirts of the fight - that's changing entire playstyle. Not this.
Edited by Sharee on November 23, 2017 8:41PM1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
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Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
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So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.Edited by Sharee on November 23, 2017 8:37PM1 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You would have a point if the comparison/analogy was about the severity of the issue. In this case your burglar/killer would be spot-on. Soul assault is far more deadly than piercing mark.
However, the comparison/analogy i was making is instead about the ability of the player to use a specific counter (and the decision to not do it), e.g. "the principle", as i called it above. In your real world example, it would be like giving examples of criminal behavior. In this case, i can list both the burglar and the killer next to each other just fine.
You cant just simply ignore whatever suits u just for the sake of making a point. Thats what u did with SA vs mark. Irl both the burglar and the killer did illegal acts. You can have a subjective opinion and view it as u want but there are still laws. Mark abides by those "laws". SA doesnt, it completely ignores the "laws" that were designed to keep different types of abilities in check on top of everything else it does.No, it is not a fact, it is just your opinion. As you may have missed in my previous posts, i happen to play a medium armor character and SA does not pose significantly higher threat to me than other abilities do. And its a werewolf, so no mistform. I simply take advantage of the fact that an enemy using soul assault pretty much stuns itself for the duration, and besides doing damage with the beam is completely defenseless.
It is a fact. Proved in multiple threads with actual numbers about what it does against a normal medium armor build. It shuts down the entire toolkit of a medium armor build and thats on paper assuming a good scenario for the target. And WW is not a counter. It has more than double the cost of SA. Thats not a counter. It is also sort of a "change" to playstyle because of how it interacts defensively with SA. You gain massive resistances and massive stamina which is what actually helps against SA and not the fact that u can attack the caster. By the time u transform and pounce the SA is already over unless u were already in WW form which again helps because of how it interacts defensively with SA.
And you are playing a NB. The only class with a sort of actual counter like cloak that can at least reduce the duration of SA if u are spot on.
And no the SA caster is not defenseless or unable to do anything else other than beam. SA can be used in some of the deadliest combos in the game and u can easily put up shields, hots etc before using it. Its not an unexpected cc leaving you defenseless for a brief period of time. You have full control of ur character, u get stam regen ticks since u are cc immune and u can cancel it if things go south which only really happens if u are outnumbered. So its basically another zerg tool. Ive been using the ability for months and ive died to the target just once because i screwed up when the game was laggy and frustrating to the point where u just press buttons instead of actually playing.
The ability is incredibly stupid. Ive never felt good of a SA kill against a medium armor in the form of "i actually outplayed him"
besides the case of a shieldbreaker *** spamming left click or proctard. Which i still didnt actually outplay and its more like "let the biggest a**hole win".And please, since when does slotting one ability and increasing your magicka a bit constitute "changing the entire playstyle"?
Switching from heavy armor block build that stands in the middle of enemy zergs to a light armor shieldstacker that bolts around the outskirts of the fight - that's changing entire playstyle. Not this.
Mist form already has its drawbacks (vampire weakenesses). It has no synergy with the build whatsoever and the sustain issues go well beyond than just getting a bit more magicka. Its just unsustainable and hybrids are not really a thing in PVP if u want to actually do good. Thats just how the game is designed. The viable counters to SA are facetank, shield and block (with actual block cost reduction since it has 7-8 ticks). All constitute a change to playstyle of medium. Like purge is not a viable defense for everyone including the marked NB, the same way mist form isnt a viable counter.
Niche cases of random sets, abilities etc are just stupid band aid fixes/counters that dont really address the actual issue which is what u are arguing for. A niche case. Everything is balanced, everything is broken in those cases.
SA's strength against medium comes in the form of being undodgeable which already puts the medium armor user in a disadvantage like mark against a NB. This does not excuse all the other mechanics that are associated with SA. Those mechanics are the issue with SA
Different types of abilities were designed with different mechanics associated with them both offensively and defensively to promote skillful gameplay by countering ur opponent. Thats what counter actually is and thats how the game used to work. Most abilities that ignore that design in some shape or form, were always a subject of controversy cause they remove skill and the ability to counter them. Some are worse offenders than others. Shieldbreaker, SA, destro ult, birds, oblivion dmg, procs etc.
Sorry for the long post. I made it as short as possible.4 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS could always backtrack and allow roll-around-the-rock 24/7 again. They probably won’t - there is a reason why more and more abilities in this game become undodgeable and Shuffle was essentially taken away. The untouchable permarollers were just as much cheese as the permablockers are now.
Of course it’s debatable if SA is the way to go to combat said issues. Personally I greatly dislike one button solutions. I don’t think there will be changes in the next updates though. Let’s just see if ZOS gets permablocking done right. That alone would make MA much more attractive.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea because I'm always next to a tree.Let me just pull the true out my bag. Even than their a 70% snare so getting to LOS is hard.
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pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.1 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
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Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.0 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea because I'm always next to a tree.Let me just pull the true out my bag. Even than their a 70% snare so getting to LOS is hard.
Making excuses for not using terrain is the player’s fault.0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS could always backtrack and allow roll-around-the-rock 24/7 again. They probably won’t - there is a reason why more and more abilities in this game become undodgeable and Shuffle was essentially taken away. The untouchable permarollers were just as much cheese as the permablockers are now.
Of course it’s debatable if SA is the way to go to combat said issues. Personally I greatly dislike one button solutions. I don’t think there will be changes in the next updates though. Let’s just see if ZOS gets permablocking done right. That alone would make MA much more attractive.
Except those "permarollers" ceased to exist when they added a stacking cost modifier to dodge roll.
They should've stopped there rather than make medium armor's main defensive mechanic useless (without replacing it with anything adequate).
If they want to make medium armor more attractive, they need to give it a way to survive that doesn't involve aping heavy armor with set choices or S&B.
After all, magicka builds can go full magicka & spam 15k shields to survive - or full spell dmg & survive with heals (doing this on my mag dk atm).Edited by DDuke on November 24, 2017 12:14AM0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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While technically true their also many large open fields for example nickel to Roebeck is giant open field save for the Well.Not to mentioned the 70% snare and blocking makes it so you can't move unless your right next to LOs.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭After some thought... I really don't see SA all that often.Edited by Waffennacht on November 24, 2017 1:34AM1 -
pieratsos✭✭✭✭✭
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Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.3 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 24, 2017 1:05AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s2 -
maxjapank✭✭✭✭✭
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Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.0 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
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KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
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Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
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TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
I have one account and one account only...
The evidence of this is my writing style; it never changes...ever.
Sorry, but I don't do garbage things like you do and pretend to be someone else...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
You would think that since your mind cant think outside of the parameters for character building that others have set forth for you...
You are incapable of thinking and character building on your own; you need a blue print from others...
So its not surprising that your thought process on the issue of Soul Assault is so narrow...
Elusive Mist is a viable counter for SA...period.
Even with your base Magicka you would have enough Magicka to cast it if being attacked with SA...
Elusive Mist covers your complaints about not being able to LoS SA...
Elusive Mist covers your complaint about not being able to block SA due to the Stamina lost...
If you want to turn your back to this solution to SA (And lets be clear, Elusive Mist would be great against more than just SA), then that's on you...
But don't cry to the Devs for nerfs to SA when a viable solution for dealing with it has literally been given to you on a silver platter...Edited by TheDoomsdayMonster on November 24, 2017 2:16AMUnyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s2 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Again you stats lies to cover up your crutch and lack of knowledge of the game.Than you insults people to try and composite for your lack of knowledge.Following by the repeated statement thay people lack creativity because we call your build which it is.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
You would think that since your mind cant think outside of the parameters for character building that others have set forth for you...
You are incapable of thinking and character building on your own; you need a blue print from others...
So its not surprising that your thought process on the issue of Soul Assault is so narrow...
Never copied anyone build but I like how you keep bring that up like it means something lmao.Your not smart enough to counter anyone argument so you go to insults.Reminds me of a child.2 -
KingJ✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I pretend to be someone else when?I'm original as the come kid.Hey more insults I hope your parents can teach you how to have a conversation without insulting people young man.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
I have one account and one account only...
The evidence of this is my writing style; it never changes...ever.
Sorry, but I don't do garbage things like you do and pretend to be someone else...
1 -
TheDoomsdayMonster✭✭✭✭✭
I pretend to be someone else when?I'm original as the come kid.Hey more insults I hope your parents can teach you how to have a conversation without insulting people young man.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »
Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
I have one account and one account only...
The evidence of this is my writing style; it never changes...ever.
Sorry, but I don't do garbage things like you do and pretend to be someone else...
If you don't want to insulted, don't talk out of your tail and say that I've created a 2nd account...
I've never done that...ever...no matter the forum.
I'm me at all times for better or worse...
Unyeilding Bias
PSN TheLordofMurder
PS4 NA
Magicka Templar
DC
The Combat Physician: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKaqUVm_8JE&t=142s2