Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Apart from shieldbreaker vs magicka sorc, there is no equivalent to soul assault vs medium armor for light and heavy builds. If your light/heavy build is good (even if its built as a glass cannon), it can survive any combination of skills without having to change your build if you play properly. By your logic, medium builds and magicka sorcs facing shieldbreaker are the only balanced builds in the game.
Allow me to quote myself here:
"If a build allows you to face anything without having to make compromises and without having to change playstyles and adapting to whatever you are fighting, then *that* would be a problem, in my opinion."
You say the only equivalent to soul assault vs medium is shieldbreaker vs magicka sorc.
I say we need more of these counters, not less.
Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »Forcing a build archetype to use something that will be a dead skill that has no synergy with the build whatsoever (mist form) is not a reasonable counter.
Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
The comparison lies in the principle. If you do not slot purge as a NB you are more vulnerable to mark than a NB who does. To what degree more vulnerable is a matter of subjective opinion. With mistform and SA its the same. You do not slot the obvious counter, you willingly make yourself more vulnerable than you need to be.
Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee As i already said, thats not a good comparison. Nbs can reasonably counter mark without running purge.
The comparison lies in the principle. If you do not slot purge as a NB you are more vulnerable to mark than a NB who does. To what degree more vulnerable is a matter of subjective opinion. With mistform and SA its the same. You do not slot the obvious counter, you willingly make yourself more vulnerable than you need to be.
Just because the principle is the same it doesnt mean that ur comparison is good or that it makes sense. It doesnt.
Thats like comparing a burglar with a serial killer. Yes they both did illegal acts but its not the same. Not even close and thats not a matter of subjective opinion.
when it comes to mark, If you do not slot the obvious counter (purge), you are not prety much getting screwed. You still have a lot of ways to survive. Mark is a counter but it doesnt shut down ur entire defense. That is actually skilful gameplay. That is actually a prety good way to tell how good a NB actually is. How well they can survive without cloak on a relatively squishy class by utilizing the rest of their available defenses without changing their entire playstyle.
This is not the same with shieldbreaker or SA (vs medium). Thats not a matter of subjective opinion, thats a fact.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
You would have a point if the comparison/analogy was about the severity of the issue. In this case your burglar/killer would be spot-on. Soul assault is far more deadly than piercing mark.
However, the comparison/analogy i was making is instead about the ability of the player to use a specific counter (and the decision to not do it), e.g. "the principle", as i called it above. In your real world example, it would be like giving examples of criminal behavior. In this case, i can list both the burglar and the killer next to each other just fine.
No, it is not a fact, it is just your opinion. As you may have missed in my previous posts, i happen to play a medium armor character and SA does not pose significantly higher threat to me than other abilities do. And its a werewolf, so no mistform. I simply take advantage of the fact that an enemy using soul assault pretty much stuns itself for the duration, and besides doing damage with the beam is completely defenseless.
And please, since when does slotting one ability and increasing your magicka a bit constitute "changing the entire playstyle"?
Switching from heavy armor block build that stands in the middle of enemy zergs to a light armor shieldstacker that bolts around the outskirts of the fight - that's changing entire playstyle. Not this.
Yea because I'm always next to a tree.Let me just pull the true out my bag. Even than their a 70% snare so getting to LOS is hard.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
Yea because I'm always next to a tree.Let me just pull the true out my bag. Even than their a 70% snare so getting to LOS is hard.
ZOS could always backtrack and allow roll-around-the-rock 24/7 again. They probably won’t - there is a reason why more and more abilities in this game become undodgeable and Shuffle was essentially taken away. The untouchable permarollers were just as much cheese as the permablockers are now.
Of course it’s debatable if SA is the way to go to combat said issues. Personally I greatly dislike one button solutions. I don’t think there will be changes in the next updates though. Let’s just see if ZOS gets permablocking done right. That alone would make MA much more attractive.
While technically true their also many large open fields for example nickel to Roebeck is giant open field save for the Well.Not to mentioned the 70% snare and blocking makes it so you can't move unless your right next to LOs.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
Again you stats lies to cover up your crutch and lack of knowledge of the game.Than you insults people to try and composite for your lack of knowledge.Following by the repeated statement thay people lack creativity because we call your build which it is.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »False again which isn't surpising coming from you.So you telling me a Stamblade doesnt need Fear?Since when its their only CC outside of ultimate.A NB doesnt need cloak either now I guess.A Stamplar don't need purge or a stam sorc streak and dark deal.Dude be quite you just sound foolish now.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Which doesnt change the fact that you counter can't be done because no build has the magic to realistically use it because they need their other utilities.So what excuse you going to make on a build that builds high magic regen and max magica still have high stam stam recovery and weapon damage.With my max magic and magic recovery i can't effectively use Mist form no stam build can.You keep saying people have to compromise but the player Using SA doesn't have to compromise at all no heavy build most magic build never have to compromise so why do Meduim build the only build in the game who have risk and compromise?Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »@Sharee Those arent counters, those are build killers. They do not promote fun or skillful pvp. A person playing optimally and using those sets/skills to counter someone will kill them every time..
A "build killer" against you can only exist if you build your character with a vulnerability. That is a conscious decision on your part, and if such a "build killer" kills you, you have noone to blame but yourself.
You made the decision to minmax your stamina/magicka for maximum damage output so you don't have enough magicka to use mistform. There's nothing wrong with that, you just have to accept the bad with the good.
What you are doing here right now is making your character into a rock on purpose so you can kill scissors, and then complaining that paper exists.
As i wrote a couple of posts up, the balance between magicka and stamina builds is an entirely different (and much more complicated) topic. I am simply sticking to the topic of this thread - that being the interaction between soul assault and medium armor.
No, you don't need those other utilities...you just want them.
And you are not willing to try anything outside of your comfort zone however, so you are stuck...
You would think that since your mind cant think outside of the parameters for character building that others have set forth for you...
You are incapable of thinking and character building on your own; you need a blue print from others...
So its not surprising that your thought process on the issue of Soul Assault is so narrow...
I pretend to be someone else when?I'm original as the come kid.Hey more insults I hope your parents can teach you how to have a conversation without insulting people young man.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
I have one account and one account only...
The evidence of this is my writing style; it never changes...ever.
Sorry, but I don't do garbage things like you do and pretend to be someone else...
I pretend to be someone else when?I'm original as the come kid.Hey more insults I hope your parents can teach you how to have a conversation without insulting people young man.TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »Yea it seems like @TheDoomsdayMonster made a second account lol.Why would he LOS when he is the person using SA you want him to break his Own SA??Fr do you even PVP?Serious question because it doesnt sound like it.You know most of your fights you don't decide where you fight its where ever you find a enemy player. Its easy to find the bad players in threads like this.
Last time i checked there is no ability in the game that creates trees and rocks that u can LOS. Cause that is literally the only way LOS would be an actual counter to an ability that applies a 70% snare while u are also blocking. In other terms. Locked in place.
There are trees and rocks and things you can use to los all over Cyrodiil. If you’re not using them, no wonder you are dying. That’s 100% player error.
I said im the one using SA. If u are incapable of reading then just keep ur biased opinion for urself. You conveniently ignored the facts which are 70% snare with blocking keeping u prety much locked in place and that LOS objects can be more than 2 meters away from you and instead resorted to a general bs argument telling people that they are bad because they are dying.
The irony is that this argument never proved anything and in fact, that is the most frequently used argument by people who dont want to see their crutches taken away from them.
What you fail to see is that many people adapt without complaining or making excuses. You call it "crutches" and yet it is you who makes excuses for not using los or engaging in a fight where los is readily available. Rather than asking for a nerf, you could learn to live with Soul Assault as is by adapting or asking for help from those who seem to brush it off. But once again, people don't want to learn. They just want to nerf something so that they have an easier time playing. You say you are promoting skillful game play, but you are just wanting game play to be easier for you.
I have one account and one account only...
The evidence of this is my writing style; it never changes...ever.
Sorry, but I don't do garbage things like you do and pretend to be someone else...