Block cost reduction adjustment in the upcoming patch. Please Review!

deepseamk20b14_ESO · November 2017

mDK does no damage? I guess I have to start leveling mine again to see how I was hit by a 12k leap from a mDK the other day lol.

I like the heavy attack idea, break block and all. There is no break free to it, block is down for a second then target is set off balance. PvE shouldn’t really be effected by it. However I think perhaps they should at least get some immunity from it for 6 seconds (but not share the same timer as CC immunity we have now) because if you can just keep heavy attacking the person it would be unbalanced and THAT would kill sword and board players in PvP. Especially if there were multiple people doing it at the same time.

I think the current cost is fine. Most players have since adapted to the changes in morrowind too. I rarely see these so called perms blockers running out of stamina. They shouldn’t nerf it further as it would hurt PvE a lot and would make playing a tank in PvP pointless.

They also should adjust sets like seventh legion and such. Buff medium. Leave light alone it’s fine. Give wrath back to heavy. Keep shuffle for medium only.

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2017

usmcjdking wrote: »

300 degree block raidus or NO CHANGE AT ALL.

200 block radius. 360 is hilarious. I'm so used to the combat mechanic from their previous mmorpg Dark Age of Camelot that I run around and try to attack their backs. Made sense to me and the perma blocker had to actually *gulp* use skill.

If you haven't heard or played DAoC its pretty much ESO with worse graphics. ESO is pretty much DAoC 2 with Elder Scrolls skins\story.

Dr_Ganknstein · November 2017

Dark-Age-Of-Camelot-War.jpg?w=1165&ssl=1

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

mDk relies on permablock more than stamDk, as stamDk permablock builds sacrifice literally everything to do it, while magDk can have it much easier.

So acting like the problem is purely because of stamDk seventh legion builds is... Ignorance at best.

With that being said I really want permablock to go. So that I can finally have a chance against magDks.

ak_pvp · November 2017

deepseamk20b14_ESO wrote: »

mDK does no damage? I guess I have to start leveling mine again to see how I was hit by a 12k leap from a mDK the other day lol.

I like the heavy attack idea, break block and all. There is no break free to it, block is down for a second then target is set off balance. PvE shouldn’t really be effected by it. However I think perhaps they should at least get some immunity from it for 6 seconds (but not share the same timer as CC immunity we have now) because if you can just keep heavy attacking the person it would be unbalanced and THAT would kill sword and board players in PvP. Especially if there were multiple people doing it at the same time.

I think the current cost is fine. Most players have since adapted to the changes in morrowind too. I rarely see these so called perms blockers running out of stamina. They shouldn’t nerf it further as it would hurt PvE a lot and would make playing a tank in PvP pointless.

They also should adjust sets like seventh legion and such. Buff medium. Leave light alone it’s fine. Give wrath back to heavy. Keep shuffle for medium only.

A good active idea that isn't just nerf everything? Woah. FHAs should break block but be bashable.

MDKs in heavy deal 5/6k leaps, less on heavier tanks. Its low damage because thats how DKs have to be built. My personal build deals 10-15k. Less on tanks. If you get 12k leaped, then you have found a very squishy target. Not the permablock gods.

wheem_ESO wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

WTF, can you PLEASE STOP complaining about stamina Dk?! This is beyond ridiculous, you "poor" mag dks are in a very strong spot in battlegrounds and duels (guess what, you can't be the best in everything), yet you are complaining about a class which is garbage at everything (stam Dk). No, your mag Dk wasn't nerfed to death, it's currently stronger than it was in the past, go play stamina Dk if you want to know how it feels to play a *** class.

Btw, sword and shield is overperforming on almost every class.

You know MDK is worst class for open world and second worst class for group utility. No heals, low damage, everything it can do a sorc can do better. Better players than you or I think the same.

StamDK provides the worst utility, but shines in 1vx with fury/7th, and the whole general meta build. The truth is both DKs suffer from similar issues.

"No, your mag Dk wasn't nerfed to death, it's currently stronger than it was in the past"

Worse sustain, hit hardest with sustain nerfs, worse wings, took more nerfs with blocking, and just lately lost our final defense vs ranged.

You don't main MDK.

Low damage on Mag DK?!?! I mean sure, they're not pulling out a burst of >= 20k damage from stealth in <= 2 seconds like a Stam NB, but Mag DK damage is absolutely not low.

I'm sympathetic to Mag DK needing some sort of survivability and/or mobility improvements when/if permablocking (or "pseudo permablocking") finally gets a nerf, but it's most definitely a nerf that needs to happen.

As above. DK is low damage because they have to build for resists/block. Light DK has higher damage and burst than most. So nothing there should be changed. Dots should get a buff. Sustain and defense should. Movability shouldn't. (Not DKs thing.)

Ultimate_Overlord · November 2017

@jdmoonan Agreed. Instead of a proper nerf to block cost glyphs we should instead go with another blanket nerf. What could possibly go wrong?

Vanzen · November 2017

Ok ...

As a MagDK, I heavily rely on blocking to survive.

Nerf blocking allright but ...

Shield stacking

Insane Nb Burst

Undodgeable pigeons

Must be adressed as well.

NBrookus · November 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

MDKs in heavy deal 5/6k leaps, less on heavier tanks. Its low damage because thats how DKs have to be built. My personal build deals 10-15k. Less on tanks. If you get 12k leaped, then you have found a very squishy target.

...

DK is low damage because they have to build for resists/block. Light DK has higher damage and burst than most. So nothing there should be changed. Dots should get a buff. Sustain and defense should. Movability shouldn't. (Not DKs thing.)

In light, my leaps are usually in the 7k-12k range. (I think my record is 16k in this build.) I get accused of permablocking, but I am not built that way.

Last night I got triple-leaped by 3 permablock mDKs and the hardest one hit for 3k.

Rohamad_Ali · November 2017

Tired of perma blockers in this game . It's time for a fix .

Sylphie · November 2017

I hope the block changes takes no-cp into account. Perma blocking is barely a thing in 1vX scenarios, if they're doing something about the stamina charges to block then magdk will take a big hit in no cp.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The answer to the block problem is very simple:

“Fully charged heavy attacks from
Any weapon break block, stagger the target, and set them off balance for 5 secs and you take the full damage of the attack”

How is this going to work for mag classes that need to flick block to avoid damage?

ak_pvp · November 2017

Sylphie wrote: »

I hope the block changes takes no-cp into account. Perma blocking is barely a thing in 1vX scenarios, if they're doing something about the stamina charges to block then magdk will take a big hit in no cp.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The answer to the block problem is very simple:

“Fully charged heavy attacks from
Any weapon break block, stagger the target, and set them off balance for 5 secs and you take the full damage of the attack”

How is this going to work for mag classes that need to flick block to avoid damage?

FHA. I doubt someone can pre FHA plan your flicked block.

NightbladeMechanics · November 2017

Recognizes that blocking is still a problem for some classes.

Suggests nerfing damage 5pc sets.

K.

~~

I'll add to this conversation that the base block cost as of my HotR testing was 2072, making block cost reduction glyphs approximately a 10% flat, additive reduction in block cost. That is a lot. One glyph is approximately three Sturdy, and two glyphs is approximately your entire Shadow Ward CP star, to draw some rough comparisons.

This is not to say that block cost reduction glyphs need a nerf, but that is one place to look.

Another nerf to consider is bringing stamina weapon heavy attacks in line with staff heavy attacks. Currently staff heavy attacks take way longer to complete and are therefore way riskier to use as a core sustain source.

The main issues here are that snb builds can pop snb ult and heavy attack with impunity, and that snb heavy attacks have such a short channel time that snb builds can weave them into regular rotations (without ulting) without much risk. If you've played a heavy armor snb DK or Warden (don't worry, I have), then you'll know 1) how crucial heavy attacks are to your sustain, 2) how hard it is for your opponent to stop you from completing them, and 3) how less risky they are to fire off during combat than staff heavy attacks are for magicka classes.

ZOS could increase the channel time for stamina heavy attacks or decrease the stamina which they return.

ZOS could also nerf the Shadow Ward CP star. Multiple people here have noted that block builds are less functional in non-CP, which is true.

Or ZOS could make block conal, as @usmcjdking has suggested many times in the past. I find this suggestion interesting, but I wonder about its practical impact. On the one hand, tanky dudes could fight in close quarters and back up against a wall, but on the other hand, that makes them easily ignored. I also see an awful lot of 1vX hopefuls popping snb ult and running straight away from their aggressors in an attempt to kite or line of sight. What if ZOS just made the block from snb ult conal? Hmmm.

Just some thoughts.

Domander · November 2017

I think being able to block only attacks in front of you makes sense. It would balance it out for pvp as well, might even be able to un-nerf it.

Quantum_V · November 2017

Honestly, just stop it already.

Understand you're not going to be able to kill every player you meet in Cyrodiil and guess what: most the time he's not abusing a 'broken mechanic. This idea might be hard to swallow, but there are players that put a lot of time into this game and learn how to play a tad better than you. If you were killed by somebody permablocking, you probably didn't die because of that, you just failed to counter what you're fighting against. (This is just an example, ofc)

If you want to permablock nowadays you have to sacrifice a lot - not like pre-Morrowind where you could run with heavy armor (before nerf) and actually permablock whilst still having high damage and sustain.

Want to permablock, kk, you'll need to sacrifice some CP, you'll have to sacrifice some glyphs on your jewlery - which will lower your potential damage and/or sustain, you'll have to sacrifice some body piece traits - less impen most likely meaning that anything that goes through block (oh boy, and there are a couple) will hit you considerably harder.

I'll stop rabbling, my point is: If you die/can't kill somebody, instead of IMMEDIATELY succumbing to your inflated ego that tells you that you're the best player and can't lose therefore blaming your lack of success on a game mechanic, think a little bit more... sometimes you're just not as good as you think.

Please stop the nerf spree.

Thanks!

PS.: not saying there aren't broken mechanics, thing is that the more I play, the more I realize how desperate people are in blaming they're lack of success on anything apart from 'Maybe I just wasn't good enough'

NBrookus · November 2017

Sylphie wrote: »

I hope the block changes takes no-cp into account. Perma blocking is barely a thing in 1vX scenarios, if they're doing something about the stamina charges to block then magdk will take a big hit in no cp.

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

The answer to the block problem is very simple:

“Fully charged heavy attacks from
Any weapon break block, stagger the target, and set them off balance for 5 secs and you take the full damage of the attack”

How is this going to work for mag classes that need to flick block to avoid damage?

Besides, it's the exact opposite in PVE. It you heavy attack a blocking NPC with a melee weapon you get stunned. Or disoriented... not sure which. Same if NPCs heavy attack you.

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

Nerf fury, seventh exists,
nerf seventh, ravager exists,
nerf ravager, alchemist exists
nerf alchemist and then heavy hundings exists,

Point is... nerfing a damage set because block cost reduction is overperforming is DUMB.

and the fact that mDK permablockers are 10 times scarier than stamDk permablockers, is the solid proof that the problem is block cost reduction, not sets.

Calboy · November 2017

Blocking = mdks primary defense. A nerf to block cost is a direct nerf to mdk where survivability is a few seconds without blocking.

ak_pvp · November 2017

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Nerf fury, seventh exists,
nerf seventh, ravager exists,
nerf ravager, alchemist exists
nerf alchemist and then heavy hundings exists,

Point is... nerfing a damage set because block cost reduction is overperforming is DUMB.

and the fact that mDK permablockers are 10 times scarier than stamDk permablockers, is the solid proof that the problem is block cost reduction, not sets.

Nerfing fury/seventh would just give more of an indirect buff to zergs/plebs.

Tormy · November 2017

RIP MagDk

Ragnarock41 · November 2017

As I said

ak_pvp wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

Nerf fury, seventh exists,
nerf seventh, ravager exists,
nerf ravager, alchemist exists
nerf alchemist and then heavy hundings exists,

Point is... nerfing a damage set because block cost reduction is overperforming is DUMB.

and the fact that mDK permablockers are 10 times scarier than stamDk permablockers, is the solid proof that the problem is block cost reduction, not sets.

Nerfing fury/seventh would just give more of an indirect buff to zergs/plebs.

Removing permablock will already kill the ''turtle up, then burst'' playstyle Dk currently has.
This will hurt magDks more than stamDKs, because stamDK is already at the rock bottom anyways.
No nerfs to sets needed, It will only kill diversity at this point. remember black rose?

after block nerfs however, they need to actually buff Dk survivability.
Better wings would be a great start,
Followed by reworking useless skills Dk has, one by one.

GrigorijMalahevich · November 2017

jdmoonan wrote: »

As most of the pvp community knows I am Jdmoonan The Fire Mage and I only play Mag Dk. I recently looked at the upcoming adjustments you are working on. I am concerned with the block cost adjustment. Sword and Board Mag Dk was already hit very hard in the Morrowind patch with the block and sustain nerf. I fear that with this next adjustment you might make it nearly impossible to play, so I wanted to give my input on what I think might be some potential fixes to the perma block stam tank problem in the current meta using Seventh Legion Brute and/or Fury. One fix I was thinking would be the obvious one which would be to nerf seventh legion and fury as they are over performing and giving heavy armor stam just way to much damage. The second would be instead of adjusting block cost how about reduce the amount of damage one can block, this would not only help to discourage the stam block build but also make sets like footman viable again. Please just keep in mind that by nerfing block you would be indirectly nerfing a class that is already hurting extremely bad in the game as a whole. Mag Dk isn't used in PVE at all and only the elite players of Mag Dk can even play the class in PVP without being completely ignored in most cases. Just some feed back from a long time Mag Dk player and theory crafter!

Arrogance level 99

Jdooman who?

“Only the elite players can play magdk in PvP” lol... no comments...

Maybe you should play other classes and check how balance looks from other sides? Though, I agree that heavy armor stam damage sets are overperforming, but it is quite difficult to play medium melee non nightblade characters with so many ranged builds in PvP. Add Ravager to 7th legion and fury list.

ManDraKE · November 2017

Nerfing the heavy armor sets with more wpn damage in the game will solve the permablock problem #FuckLogic

Vanzen · November 2017

Blocking is to DK

What shield is to sorc

Cloak to NB

Bol to temp

WE CANT SURVIVE W/O !

DK have already been nerfed again and again and again.

Playing DK in pvp is already damn hard enough compared to some other classes I wont even name ...

So pls could we at least with no hope of some buffs by now be left in peace with the few advantages left to us ?

Baconlad · November 2017

How about they make block cost reduction in sword and shield passives less, and give the percentage lost in block cost from passives to sturdy trait in all seven slots. THAT way, if you still want to permablock, you can but you need to build into it through gear much like regen and jewels glyphs. Than permablockers lose some mitigation through impen. But can still have the same block cost for sacrificing.

Also the change would mean that my resto staff magplar doesnt lose half his stamina bar for one second worth of blocking. Basically it would be a nerf to players who use sword and shield with no sturdy trait. But nothing would change for those who wanted to block with resto staff or dual swords

Morgul667 · November 2017

Id rather see something that makes blocking over time more costly

Like the cost increases overtime if you dont stock blocking for 2 s

CatchMeTrolling · November 2017

Morgul667 wrote: »

Id rather see something that makes blocking over time more costly

Like the cost increases overtime if you dont stock blocking for 2 s

Nah that’s a bad change, I’d have to drop my defense every 2’s in light Armor. It's not really ideal, all block changes don't hurt actual perma blockers only the people that utilize block well, no actual damage dealer is "perma blocking " even if it seems like it.

Tormy · November 2017

Baconlad wrote: »

How about they make block cost reduction in sword and shield passives less, and give the percentage lost in block cost from passives to sturdy trait in all seven slots. THAT way, if you still want to permablock, you can but you need to build into it through gear much like regen and jewels glyphs. Than permablockers lose some mitigation through impen. But can still have the same block cost for sacrificing.

Also the change would mean that my resto staff magplar doesnt lose half his stamina bar for one second worth of blocking. Basically it would be a nerf to players who use sword and shield with no sturdy trait. But nothing would change for those who wanted to block with resto staff or dual swords

I'm liking this idea

Derra · November 2017

all i can read is JD moo man.

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Domander · November 2017

So many things go through block now, why would any more nerfing be done.