Do you think the Exploit Perma Ban was too harsh? Yes or No?

Mureel · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

@Mureel
snipped

Life is too short to forget to have a little empathy for people that make mistakes. I am not talking about the ones that were selling carries using the exploit but the ones that went along for the ride and didn't realize the implications of their actions.
snipped

@TequilaFire
This right here is EXACTLY WHY I am so annoyed with this whole thing - these people screwed not only themselves but potentially (and this we do not know) anyone who bought a run not knowing any better. (I wrote another comment in here saying that imo, that was the worst part!)

There are reportedly (as seen in this thread) still people trying to sell the skin runs on FB.

For any who bought the runs, who can prove they gave X gold and were told just do X or don't do X - then I would not be against that ban being overturned at all; gains removed, gold returned even.

It's the actual exploiters that have really done my head in here; as I've said much more for what they have done/attempted to do to other people than for what they've done to themselves.

Anyway - phew. It's not nice.

TequilaFire · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

@Mureel
snipped

Life is too short to forget to have a little empathy for people that make mistakes. I am not talking about the ones that were selling carries using the exploit but the ones that went along for the ride and didn't realize the implications of their actions.
snipped

This right here is EXACTLY WHY I am so annoyed with this whole thing - these people screwed not only themselves but potentially (and this we do not know) anyone who bought a run not knowing any better.

There are reportedly (as seen in this thread) still people trying to sell the skin runs on FB.

For any who bought the runs, who can prove they gave X gold and were told just do X or don't do X - then I would not be against that ban being overturned at all; gains removed, gold returned even.

It's the actual exploiters that have really done my head in here; as I've said much more for what they have done/attempted to do to other people than for what they've done to themselves.

Anyway - phew. It's not nice.

I am not for turning any ban over, just giving the ban that matches the offense.
Perma bans for those that sold the exploit and 1 week bans for those that bought just so they learn a lesson.

Mureel · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

@Mureel
snipped

Life is too short to forget to have a little empathy for people that make mistakes. I am not talking about the ones that were selling carries using the exploit but the ones that went along for the ride and didn't realize the implications of their actions.
snipped

This right here is EXACTLY WHY I am so annoyed with this whole thing - these people screwed not only themselves but potentially (and this we do not know) anyone who bought a run not knowing any better.

There are reportedly (as seen in this thread) still people trying to sell the skin runs on FB.

For any who bought the runs, who can prove they gave X gold and were told just do X or don't do X - then I would not be against that ban being overturned at all; gains removed, gold returned even.

It's the actual exploiters that have really done my head in here; as I've said much more for what they have done/attempted to do to other people than for what they've done to themselves.

Anyway - phew. It's not nice.

I am not for turning any ban over, just giving the ban that matches the offense.
Perma bans for those that sold the exploit and 1 week bans for those that bought just so they learn a lesson.

lol turning it over in a week then; which is nearly over. ;-)

LiquidPony · November 2017

I know for a fact that several of the XB/NA exploiters who were banned are notorious Rakkhat snipers who have been selling snipe runs for ages. Even though very few guilds can actually complete vMoL on XB/NA, the skin means nothing because of people like this.

They heard about the exploit, sought out the details, executed the exploit, and then tried to sell skin runs.

Good riddance.

Bam_Bam · November 2017

Serious question - which exploit, what bans and when/why? Because there's been loads of them.

Mureel · November 2017

Baranthus wrote: »

Serious question - which exploit, what bans and when/why? Because there's been loads of them.

There's a forum announcement https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380210/response-to-the-veteran-hard-mode-asylum-sanctorium-trial-exploit-nov-10#latest

Autumnhart · November 2017

We don't have all the information. ZOS has been so lenient in the past, this appears to have been an egregious case. The people who do have all the information made that call. I'm fine with it.

BlazingDynamo · November 2017

I think this can only be settled with another poll and/or topic discussing our opinions on the matter.

Cause that will surely change things.

Cadbury · November 2017

BlazingDynamo wrote: »

I think this can only be settled with another poll and/or topic discussing our opinions on the matter.

Cause that will surely change things.

If you're volunteering, feel free

Acrolas · November 2017

This is a Deluxe Moot costume inside a deluxe moot thread.

MilwaukeeScott · November 2017

Not the answers you wanted, huh?

eso_lags · November 2017

I voted yes, too harsh and it sets a precedent that perma banning 1st time "exploit" offenders is okay. The same thing with gap closing on keeps. Lets be honest here, the only reason these guys are perma banned is because of community outcry.. These guys should have gotten a 1 month ban and removal of everything they gained.. Honestly perma bans should be reserved for repeat offenders and people who use outside programs to cheat in game. Not exploits due to lazy testing.

I dont agree with what they did at all but i also dont agree with perma banning players WHO HAVE PLAYED FOR 2-3 YEARS because they made a mistake.. We all make mistakes. 1 strike and you're out, at least give them one chance.. And to all of you who agree..

People have been banned for gap closing on keeps, for going through a pub dungeon a couple times while there was an exploit in there (unknown to them), for stupid things in this game.. And if the shoe is on the other foot one day, and you find yourself in an exploit, whether its you doing it on purpose because you think its a stupid thing (like keep jumping) or an exploit that you dont know is an exploit (like the pub dungeon one), you may be perma banned and then you wont agree anymore.. Zos needs to get out of this habit of perma banning 1st time offenders for exploits. ffs.

Liley · November 2017

41 votes for yes = people that got banned + friends

usmcjdking · November 2017

No it was 100% justified and ZOS had made it painfully clear. Now I'm sure there are a few cases wherein some subjects may not have intended or understood what was happening was exploitative in nature and ZOS owes it to invesitigate each and every case the best they can. Blanket permabanning is dangerous.

Meanwhile, we still have legions of sexists and racists roaming around the game and I suppose we're supposed to just tolerate that.

LiquidPony · November 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

I voted yes, too harsh and it sets a precedent that perma banning 1st time "exploit" offenders is okay. The same thing with gap closing on keeps. Lets be honest here, the only reason these guys are perma banned is because of community outcry.. These guys should have gotten a 1 month ban and removal of everything they gained.. Honestly perma bans should be reserved for repeat offenders and people who use outside programs to cheat in game. Not exploits due to lazy testing.

I dont agree with what they did at all but i also dont agree with perma banning players WHO HAVE PLAYED FOR 2-3 YEARS because they made a mistake.. We all make mistakes. 1 strike and you're out, at least give them one chance.. And to all of you who agree..

People have been banned for gap closing on keeps, for going through a pub dungeon a couple times while there was an exploit in there (unknown to them), for stupid things in this game.. And if the shoe is on the other foot one day, and you find yourself in an exploit, whether its you doing it on purpose because you think its a stupid thing (like keep jumping) or an exploit that you dont know is an exploit (like the pub dungeon one), you may be perma banned and then you wont agree anymore.. Zos needs to get out of this habit of perma banning 1st time offenders for exploits. ffs.

How do you know these were "first-time exploit offenders?"

Hint: a lot of them weren't.

Dont_do_drugs · November 2017

hell no. more of this.

idk · November 2017

Mureel wrote: »

I voted no. I think for the scope it was perfectly legit.

Absolutly the case, There was no gray area with this. Not something that was questionable if it was an exploit or not intended.

Any mildly intelligent person would know what they were doing was an exploit so no reason for a warning. If they were not aware of the possible consequences then to bad, so sad (not).

EDIT: Hopefully it is truly permanent. Players that exploit like that will likely look for an exploit for personal gain again.

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

idk wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I voted no. I think for the scope it was perfectly legit.

Absolutly the case, There was no gray area with this. Not something that was questionable if it was an exploit or not intended.

They knew what they were doing and if they were not aware of the risks, to bad, so sad (not).

EDIT: Hopefully it is truly permanent. Players that exploit like that will likely look for an exploit for personal gain again.

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

I have read (not sure if true or not) that some game developers can truly permanently ban players from their games. Something like an IP address ban or an operating system/hardware serial # ban. Again, not sure if true or possible.

Dont_do_drugs · November 2017

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Mureel · November 2017

itzTJ wrote: »

I voted yes, too harsh and it sets a precedent that perma banning 1st time "exploit" offenders is okay. The same thing with gap closing on keeps. Lets be honest here, the only reason these guys are perma banned is because of community outcry.. These guys should have gotten a 1 month ban and removal of everything they gained.. Honestly perma bans should be reserved for repeat offenders and people who use outside programs to cheat in game. Not exploits due to lazy testing.

I dont agree with what they did at all but i also dont agree with perma banning players WHO HAVE PLAYED FOR 2-3 YEARS because they made a mistake.. We all make mistakes. 1 strike and you're out, at least give them one chance.. And to all of you who agree..

People have been banned for gap closing on keeps, for going through a pub dungeon a couple times while there was an exploit in there (unknown to them), for stupid things in this game.. And if the shoe is on the other foot one day, and you find yourself in an exploit, whether its you doing it on purpose because you think its a stupid thing (like keep jumping) or an exploit that you dont know is an exploit (like the pub dungeon one), you may be perma banned and then you wont agree anymore.. Zos needs to get out of this habit of perma banning 1st time offenders for exploits. ffs.

ZOS? OUT OF THIS HABIT? OF PERMA BANNING?

Are you JOKING?

*checks drink for roofie because apparently I am hallucinating*

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

Tandor · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I voted no. I think for the scope it was perfectly legit.

Absolutly the case, There was no gray area with this. Not something that was questionable if it was an exploit or not intended.

They knew what they were doing and if they were not aware of the risks, to bad, so sad (not).

EDIT: Hopefully it is truly permanent. Players that exploit like that will likely look for an exploit for personal gain again.

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

I have read (not sure if true or not) that some game developers can truly permanently ban players from their games. Something like an IP address ban or an operating system/hardware serial # ban. Again, not sure if true or possible.

IP address bans are not very helpful, given that not everyone has a permanent IP address, there are simple ways round it, and IP addresses are often shared which means innocent people being banned along with the guilty ones.

idk · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

idk wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

I voted no. I think for the scope it was perfectly legit.

Absolutly the case, There was no gray area with this. Not something that was questionable if it was an exploit or not intended.

They knew what they were doing and if they were not aware of the risks, to bad, so sad (not).

EDIT: Hopefully it is truly permanent. Players that exploit like that will likely look for an exploit for personal gain again.

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

I have read (not sure if true or not) that some game developers can truly permanently ban players from their games. Something like an IP address ban or an operating system/hardware serial # ban. Again, not sure if true or possible.

Zos has banned a second account from a players that had already been banned on their original account. No questions were asked, they just got banned.

It would be grand if some of them tried to come back on a second account and got banned yet again. And again, hopefully it is a true permanent ban. Never lifted and close that second/third account after getting the revenue from the sales of additional copies.

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

Yes and Zos has done it in the past. They know what machines you play on and access their website on.

TequilaFire · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

What Sony or Microsoft does is ban the MAC address of the console on the PSN.
Most developers can't do that with out MS pr Sony cooperation.
Then you get another console with a different MAC.
Beware buying cheap used consoles.

On PC you buy another network card or router/ modem and change your IP.
But devs that ban by machine are rare on PC, usually just by IP.

WuffyCerulei · November 2017

I say no because I have friends working their rears off to get the clear, and those jerks just exploit a flaw in game design (which happens. Games aren't perfect) to get the clear without working for it. Also a neat thing called Terms of Service we all agree to. In it, it states that ya don't knowing exploit something or you get im serious trouble.

Dont_do_drugs · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

why not? i dont know how in other countries it works, but a platform can ban someone and a platform tells someone that he is banned. if he purchases a new copy or a new access to that platforn - he can try, but as soon as they recognize, that its "him" - he is banned again. that easy. perma ban is perma ban. zos is surely doing nice extra bucks with this seemingly - i dont know, or maybe they dont want to have that little extra effort for checking similarities of hardware, ip, bank account data. no clue. but it seems like that.

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

What Sony or Microsoft does is ban the MAC address of the console on the PSN.
Most developers can't do that with out MS pr Sony cooperation.
Then you get another console with a different MAC.
Beware buying cheap used consoles.

On PC you buy another network card or router/ modem and change your IP.
But devs that ban by machine are rare on PC, usually just by IP.

Interesting. I would assume for most having to buy a new console just to play a game you were banned from would be a sizable deterrent from coming back. Not sure the price of network cards these days. But players with most laptops prob aren't opening them up to change network card.

TequilaFire · November 2017

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

What Sony or Microsoft does is ban the MAC address of the console on the PSN.
Most developers can't do that with out MS pr Sony cooperation.
Then you get another console with a different MAC.
Beware buying cheap used consoles.

On PC you buy another network card or router/ modem and change your IP.
But devs that ban by machine are rare on PC, usually just by IP.

Interesting. I would assume for most having to buy a new console just to play a game you were banned from would be a sizable deterrent from coming back. Not sure the price of network cards these days. But players with most laptops prob aren't opening them up to change network card.

Very true, but there are a lot of people out there that have more money than brains.

Dont_do_drugs · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

What Sony or Microsoft does is ban the MAC address of the console on the PSN.
Most developers can't do that with out MS pr Sony cooperation.
Then you get another console with a different MAC.
Beware buying cheap used consoles.

On PC you buy another network card or router/ modem and change your IP.
But devs that ban by machine are rare on PC, usually just by IP.

Interesting. I would assume for most having to buy a new console just to play a game you were banned from would be a sizable deterrent from coming back. Not sure the price of network cards these days. But players with most laptops prob aren't opening them up to change network card.

Very true, but there are a lot of people out there that have more money than brains.

tru on that as well. i remember some names.

Publius_Scipio · November 2017

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Define "permanent". They can buy ESO again and create a new account and play again. Yes they will be starting all over again, but they will be back.

True on that. ZOS doesnt permaban people, only accounts - they even state openly "you are allowed to purchase a new account".

Is it true about game developers having the ability to actually permanently ban individuals from their game whether or not they buy the games again?

What Sony or Microsoft does is ban the MAC address of the console on the PSN.
Most developers can't do that with out MS pr Sony cooperation.
Then you get another console with a different MAC.
Beware buying cheap used consoles.

On PC you buy another network card or router/ modem and change your IP.
But devs that ban by machine are rare on PC, usually just by IP.

Interesting. I would assume for most having to buy a new console just to play a game you were banned from would be a sizable deterrent from coming back. Not sure the price of network cards these days. But players with most laptops prob aren't opening them up to change network card.

Very true, but there are a lot of people out there that have more money than brains.

Or ZOS could (as punishment) send through the game client a nasty virus/code that essentially makes a guilty player's PC toast. lol