Do you think the Exploit Perma Ban was too harsh? Yes or No?

Ruckly

An instructive poll on they-self binary ethics. The dungeon master has an oversight/phishs, the player finds it and wins, the dungeon master isn't penalized, the player is banned. RPGs were made to be broken. Who hasn't broken Elder scrolls 3 Morrowind? Yet the bogey-man TOS speaks such and such therefore and so forth. Blessed is he that resists temptation after gleaning the grapes and finding through ingenuity champagne. Cursed is he that drinks it.

idk

Jeremy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Just Yes or No. Votes are anonymous - let’s see what the majority is.

I believe it was too harsh.

Permanent bans should be reserved for those who use obvious cheats like hacking the game or using unauthorized third party programs. Exploiting unintended advantages in the existing game design isn't something I'm comfortable with the developers punishing players for - let alone banning them permanently from the game over.

It was an obvious exploit. There is zero difference between exploiting an obvious unintended situation as they did vs hacking the game. None.

They got what they deserved, hands down. Any decent MMO would ban them and any worthy guild would have kicked them as well. Zos is finally standing up to such a pathetic players.

Good riddance

Feanor

It was well done. The real test is if the bans stand and don’t get reverted though.

Kronuxx

About time ZOS steps it up a notch. Although, do I really trust or believe that ZOS will hold to their word and permaban these people? Only time will tell. Just like those PvP exploiters who they "permabanned" only for some of them to magically reappear later on.

WildWilbur

A really bad arrow to the knee...

JamieJammer

No seems fair.

Cinbri

1. People creating threads that exploiters should be punished.
2. ZoS punishing exploiters.
3. People creating threads that punishing is too harsh.

Turelus

No. After three years of lax policing and actions I fully support ZOS stepping up their game.

I think a strike system works for areas where it may not be clear or ZOS is making a first time change in stance (Bleakers) but this was so clear cut not intended that anyone doing it would have realised it was wrong.

Feanor

Turelus wrote: »

No. After three years of lax policing and actions I fully support ZOS stepping up their game.

I think a strike system works for areas where it may not be clear or ZOS is making a first time change in stance (Bleakers) but this was so clear cut not intended that anyone doing it would have realised it was wrong.

That’s not how it works on the forum Master Turelus. If you follow the logic of these people using the Salvation set when it was giving 100,000 weapon damage was totally fine and not an exploit too.

Doctordarkspawn

I love that some of the forum braggers got jipped.

It really makes me smile.

Turelus

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No. After three years of lax policing and actions I fully support ZOS stepping up their game.

I think a strike system works for areas where it may not be clear or ZOS is making a first time change in stance (Bleakers) but this was so clear cut not intended that anyone doing it would have realised it was wrong.

That’s not how it works on the forum Master Turelus. If you follow the logic of these people using the Salvation set when it was giving 100,000 weapon damage was totally fine and not an exploit too.

Sadly this is the precedent which has been set.
ZOS' lax and sometime non-action on so many issues over the last years helped breed a "cheat while you can, you won't be banned" mindset.
I have heard this myself from former guildmates and it's always annoyed me. Yes there are some minor bugs which will be abused until patched, maybe a root working too well or something, those I can excuse ZOS lax policy on.

However dungeon/trial skips, duplication, bugged boss farming, etc. where a player actively has to try to do it to abuse it should be something much stronger in enforcement.

This also falls on ZOS to patch the issues faster. If it's not working as intended and clearly causing unfair play it shouldn't take three months until the next major release to fix. Big things in small patches, little things in big patches.

That's my morning rant I guess.

Shad0wfire99

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I love that some of the forum braggers got jipped.

It really makes me smile.

Remove Darkspawn comments.

Feanor

Turelus wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No. After three years of lax policing and actions I fully support ZOS stepping up their game.

I think a strike system works for areas where it may not be clear or ZOS is making a first time change in stance (Bleakers) but this was so clear cut not intended that anyone doing it would have realised it was wrong.

That’s not how it works on the forum Master Turelus. If you follow the logic of these people using the Salvation set when it was giving 100,000 weapon damage was totally fine and not an exploit too.

Sadly this is the precedent which has been set.
ZOS' lax and sometime non-action on so many issues over the last years helped breed a "cheat while you can, you won't be banned" mindset.
I have heard this myself from former guildmates and it's always annoyed me. Yes there are some minor bugs which will be abused until patched, maybe a root working too well or something, those I can excuse ZOS lax policy on.

However dungeon/trial skips, duplication, bugged boss farming, etc. where a player actively has to try to do it to abuse it should be something much stronger in enforcement.

This also falls on ZOS to patch the issues faster. If it's not working as intended and clearly causing unfair play it shouldn't take three months until the next major release to fix. Big things in small patches, little things in big patches.

That's my morning rant I guess.

I’m outright shocked how often we agree. Need more fighting on here!

Mureel

Ruckly wrote: »

An instructive poll on they-self binary ethics. The dungeon master has an oversight/phishs, the player finds it and wins, the dungeon master isn't penalized, the player is banned. RPGs were made to be broken. Who hasn't broken Elder scrolls 3 Morrowind? Yet the bogey-man TOS speaks such and such therefore and so forth. Blessed is he that resists temptation after gleaning the grapes and finding through ingenuity champagne. Cursed is he that drinks it.

Sorry your friends got banned. Except I'm not. This was a legit exploit on the RAIDING COMPETITIVE side of the game, not RP.

Drazkyth

No. I can see why some are saying it's perhaps overzealous as in the past Zenimax have been in my opinion far too lenient but just because they were lenient in the past doesn't mean an exploiter should have the bravado to knowingly exploit and think they'll get away with it.

I don't PvE much anymore these days since vMoL and getting that skin so I have no interest in the vHoF or vAS skins however there are players and groups out there running these for countless hours to get the rewards legit and it would be a slap across the face to those players if people exploiting the achievement were not punished.

I just hope Zenimax stick to this policy against those knowingly exploiting or cheating their way to the top. It ruins the sense of achievement for the vast majority of the player base and cheapens those rewards.

Good riddance I say.

RaddlemanNumber7

These people used the exploit knowing it to be a breach of TOS. They conspired with other members of their raid to use the exploit and breach TOS. They incited others to use the exploit and breach TOS. At every stage they sought to profit personally from breaching TOS using their knowledge of this exploit.

In gaming terms that's a pretty comprehensive list of badness, and demands a similarly comprehensive punishment. IMO a perma ban on their accounts is fitting punishment.

MehrunesFlagon

What exactly was the exploit?

Mureel

MehrunesFlagon wrote: »

What exactly was the exploit?

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/380210/response-to-the-veteran-hard-mode-asylum-sanctorium-trial-exploit-nov-10

Iselin

Meanwhile in Glister Vale in Auridon, after a very brief absence, the bot train is back farming wolves as they have been for more than a year.

Lady_Scorp72

I’m late to the topic, but I voted no. There are zero excuses for what these players did, and I don’t believe for a minute they didn’t know it was wrong—they were simply confident they couldn’t or wouldn’t get caught.

As countless people have already pointed out, the TOS is crystal clear that exploiting bugs is prohibited—pointe finale. ZOS retains the sole right to decide punishments for violations of the TOS on a case by case basis as they see fit, and clearly, they saw this as a severe enough to warrant permanent bans. Comparing the company’s actions with respect to previous bugs is largely irrelevant, if for no other reason than the achievements and loot these exploiters repeatedly received was exceptional (and let's not forget all that extra profit they earned from selling exploit expert runs).

In light of all that, it surprised me to see people upset by the bans. I mean, I’ve read countless complaints about ZOS not being hard enough on cheaters and exploiters, but now that they have come down hard, there are complaints that it’s not fair because they were lax in the past. Except, this has nothing to do with anything that’s happened prior. Everything evolves and the precedents change accordingly, which is a good thing.

Lastly, when I bought this game, I didn’t see any guarantee promising it would be bug free. No software is ever bug free, I expect bugs, but that doesn’t mean I have a right to take advantage of it if I find one. The issue seems to be differing opinions on the severity, but I think it’s clear in this case. It’s no different in my mind than if the computers at my bank have a bug and deposit too much money into my account. If it’s one dollar or even ten dollars, the bank will likely forgive me if I don’t say anything, because it’s generally considered to be an insignificant sum. But, if it keeps happening or if that bug gives me 1000 dollars, you can bet I’m going to be in trouble if I don’t report it—and rightly so.

baltic1284

I have to say No on this main reason is that any exploit of any kind gives certain players and edge over another player weather it is PvP or PVE makes the game itself in fun and toxic towards other players that do play the game with in the rules. It also causes issues of certain groups and or players have stuff that others don't and makes the game itself pointless the old why try when I now they are exploiting the game I wont win so wont try.

Dont_do_drugs

Iselin wrote: »

Meanwhile in Glister Vale in Auridon, after a very brief absence, the bot train is back farming wolves as they have been for more than a year.

Why wouldnt they? Actually only because accounts disappear from botting, doesnt mean they are bcs ZOS banned them. Sometimes they jsut do, because they have enough gold on the bank to sell and dont need to grind a while.

Tandor

Kronuxx wrote: »

About time ZOS steps it up a notch. Although, do I really trust or believe that ZOS will hold to their word and permaban these people? Only time will tell. Just like those PvP exploiters who they "permabanned" only for some of them to magically reappear later on.

Their official announcement does include the line " We will not be considering overturns for these account bans. They are permanent and final." Unless it was in response to a legal action it would be difficult to imagine them backtracking on that, although, as you say, time will tell. They would certainly lose all credibility if they did.

Iselin

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Meanwhile in Glister Vale in Auridon, after a very brief absence, the bot train is back farming wolves as they have been for more than a year.

Why wouldnt they? Actually only because accounts disappear from botting, doesnt mean they are bcs ZOS banned them. Sometimes they jsut do, because they have enough gold on the bank to sell and dont need to grind a while.

Well, if you pay attention to the forums, you'd know that a couple of weeks back ZOS spent a couple of days with actual in-game GMs (gasp!) going around to all the usual spots and banning them... how long the bans were for is anyone's guess since they made no post about it as they did for this exploit and as I said, they're back.

What I and many others question is their commitment to doing a concerted effort to make the game as hack/bot/exploit free as possible.

I see these permabans and especially taking the unusual (for ZOZ) step of making an official post about it, as PR because of the high profile nature of the exploit. I wish it was more than that. I wish we were witnessing the start on a zero tolerance for cheating policy... but I have my doubts.

Dont_do_drugs

What I and many others question is their commitment to doing a concerted effort to make the game as hack/bot/exploit free as possible.

There would be some ideas...like delete the botguilds and the gold they are saving there. hardware-id. react on reports (not only in one banwave).

oh wait. its zos.

kylewwefan

I always find out about this stuff late. Is it fixed already? Is it just a PC thing?

Elsonso

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Meanwhile in Glister Vale in Auridon, after a very brief absence, the bot train is back farming wolves as they have been for more than a year.

Why wouldnt they? Actually only because accounts disappear from botting, doesnt mean they are bcs ZOS banned them. Sometimes they jsut do, because they have enough gold on the bank to sell and dont need to grind a while.

Bot accounts returning after being gone for a while is very rare.

Dont_do_drugs

lordrichter wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Iselin wrote: »

Meanwhile in Glister Vale in Auridon, after a very brief absence, the bot train is back farming wolves as they have been for more than a year.

Why wouldnt they? Actually only because accounts disappear from botting, doesnt mean they are bcs ZOS banned them. Sometimes they jsut do, because they have enough gold on the bank to sell and dont need to grind a while.

Bot accounts returning after being gone for a while is very rare.

u, my pc na friend, ur sarcasm is awesome!

LadyNalcarya

kylewwefan wrote: »

I always find out about this stuff late. Is it fixed already? Is it just a PC thing?

Do you want to get banned?

Doctordarkspawn

Shad0wfire99 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

I love that some of the forum braggers got jipped.

It really makes me smile.

Remove Darkspawn comments.

Remove Choas.