PVE leaderboards should be removed

LiquidPony · November 2017

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

That's like saying, Ron working at Burger King Serves 500 people a day and Moe serves 2 people a day and spends most of the day out back smoking and lol'ing at Cat videos on Youtube but both people should have an equal shot at promotion and none of these performance factors should be taken into account. Please go and join the real world.

I have a job, so thank you, I'm very well integrated in the real world. However we're talking about a game here. Most MMOs will not give you special goodies for beating the content faster than others, outside maybe an achievement for world's first, or PvP based rewards. FFXIV, WoW, GW2, etc all major competitors to ESO do not reward you for killing a PVE boss faster than other group.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I bet you 10M gold I can roll a Kaijit Magsorc and get on the leaderboards, I could spend most of the time dead and still get on there. Stop blaming race and other pointless crap for what is a simple fact that you most likely have a very poor group to run with.

Oh, they might get on the leaderboard, just not the very top, because racial passives seem to be important for competition. If we reduced competition, we would reduce the importance of passives in game.

@mirta000b16_ESO

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pve/leaderboards/aegwynn/black-rook-hold

You crazy dawg, because WoW has PvE leaderboards too.

And also ... your solution to the importance of racial passives is like saying "I've got a splinter in my hand, so might as well just cut off my hand!"

The solution to the "problem" of the importance of racial passives is ... changing racial passives. Not removing PvE leaderboards.

Fallewarrior · November 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

That's like saying, Ron working at Burger King Serves 500 people a day and Moe serves 2 people a day and spends most of the day out back smoking and lol'ing at Cat videos on Youtube but both people should have an equal shot at promotion and none of these performance factors should be taken into account. Please go and join the real world.

I have a job, so thank you, I'm very well integrated in the real world. However we're talking about a game here. Most MMOs will not give you special goodies for beating the content faster than others, outside maybe an achievement for world's first, or PvP based rewards. FFXIV, WoW, GW2, etc all major competitors to ESO do not reward you for killing a PVE boss faster than other group.

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

I bet you 10M gold I can roll a Kaijit Magsorc and get on the leaderboards, I could spend most of the time dead and still get on there. Stop blaming race and other pointless crap for what is a simple fact that you most likely have a very poor group to run with.

Oh, they might get on the leaderboard, just not the very top, because racial passives seem to be important for competition. If we reduced competition, we would reduce the importance of passives in game.

@mirta000b16_ESO

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pve/leaderboards/aegwynn/black-rook-hold

You crazy dawg, because WoW has PvE leaderboards too.

Fake news

FakeFox · November 2017

You don't want to play for leaderboards, then don't do so. End of the discussion.

Danksta · November 2017

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

This is clearly a thread made with the intentions of bashing the competitive PvE community, so who's the toxic one now? I know I'm not the one judging a group of people based off the actions of a small fraction of said group.

I don't see how am I attacking you? If you removed the leaderboards the hardcore would still compete like they've always done. However it would bleed-down to midcore less, making the casual pug life more tolerable.

You're calling competitive PvE players toxic. While some of them are it's not even close to all of us, and the same could be said about any part of the ESO community.

Also, I'll disagree that it'd make the "pug life more tolerable". Most of the top players I know are very willing to help people out and the toxic ones are usually the players who think they're better than they are, like the ones that rage out because their PUG can't finish Hel Ra.

I'm sure that you probably had some bad experience with a trials guild that became toxic but judging us all on something that most of had anything to do with is just wrong, you could even say it's toxic.

FakeFox · November 2017

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Yeah, remove the little remaining part of content for competitive PvE players so not just half of them quit the game, but all of them

Funny considering that a lot of games with hard raid content have no leaderboards and somehow their hardcore population does not go running away.

In my experience that is mainly because their endgame is harder, so that actually playing the hardest contend is challenging enough so that their is no added challenge in form of leaderboards necessary. In my opinion ESO barely has that, as usually after a few weeks going for scores is the only point left in raids for good groups.

mirta000b16_ESO · November 2017

LiquidPony wrote: »

@mirta000b16_ESO

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/pve/leaderboards/aegwynn/black-rook-hold

You crazy dawg, because WoW has PvE leaderboards too.

And also ... your solution to the importance of racial passives is like saying "I've got a splinter in my hand, so might as well just cut off my hand!"

The solution to the "problem" of the importance of racial passives is ... changing racial passives. Not removing PvE leaderboards.

WoW leaderboards are not inside the game, but outside of it. Less people put in the effort to check it, so I feel like the overall in-game environment ends up less toxic.

Inig0 · November 2017

LOL im dying

Huggelz · November 2017

kek

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · November 2017

HatchetHaro wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

We have a dude that only plays argonians and pulls 60k + dps in raid. You can play sub optimal races you just need to take the time to learn your class and rotation. @HatchetHaro were you at. Also just because leaderboards go away doesn't mean I want to spend 3 hrs in a vaa hm because we brought a bunch of baddies in.

I have been summoned!

While it is true that I do really good damage in raids on my Argonian toons, I am always plagued with the idea that I can do much better if I was a Redguard instead. I really do not like the racial passives in its current state; I feel handicapped by playing what I love instead of picking the "optimal race". Racial passives, right now, are really imbalanced, especially when it comes to the competitive aspect in PvE; the leaderboards are just filled with Redguard and Khajiiti stamina DDs right now, and that upsets me.

However, removing the PvE leaderboards is just a terrible idea on its own; there really is no incentive to run trials other than for leaderboard scores. Most trial loot is easily acquired in a few runs, and even then only the golden jewellery requires a veteran clear to acquire; the rest can just drop in normal.

I think the problem here is that ZOS has failed to balance the stats that also affect cosmetics. I, again, love Argonians, and refuse to play another race, and as a result I am handicapped by it. I detest vampirism; I don't think it's suitable for the lore I build for my characters, it becomes a nuisance in PvP with all the magDKs running around, and it's ugly as hell, but still I must consciously maintain that vampirism due to the great stats it grants me, especially the extra stamina and magicka recovery that is super useful when it comes to trials.

While, true, both scenarios are, technically, my choice, but sadly it is a reluctant acceptance. These scenarios are "play something you like and be handicapped", or to put it more bluntly, "stats vs enjoyment". That's what needs looking at, not the leaderboards.

Yeah I agree with you there. But I wanted to highlight that skill is much more desirable over anything else. Some day argonians will have there time on top so everyone has to race change to them.

Zagnut123Zagnut123 · November 2017

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

But the point is that leaderboards don't create the toxicity. So getting rid of them only makes sense if they cause it. People come in to the game with the intention to troll or be toxic. And just because leaderboards go away doesn't mean any of them would leave. No one in this thread is giving a convincing argument about removing them. Like what is the threshold for someone to be considered toxic. Am I toxic for disagreeing with you am I toxic if I don't allow just anyone into a raid. No joke I come across more toxic people in the lfg dungeon finder, we should get rid of it then right.

NobleGuardian · November 2017

This thread is a meme.

ZOS already babies the casuals to the point where this game take almost 0 skill. Why continue to the last competitive element out of the game? it seems as tho the people who want to take Lbs out of the game are the kind of people who want a trophy for showing up, and you pretty much do. the titles from vAA, vHRC, vSO are all insanely easy to get. thats your trophy for showing up, and the 12k you get from loot.

Any race works for PvE you can be a orc mag Nb and go in a clear the PvE content because its so dumbed down for everyone. Ive cleared vMA on a woodelf magNB, ive seen a High Elf Stam sorc get flawless in vMA Ive seen argonian Sorcs, Imperial Magplars, Nord Stam Sorcs all clear vMOL. Race doesnt matter as much as this thread is making it seem. While yes there is Best races for certain things, but you can make anything work.

Then starts the whole "oh i only play my magplar and these guilds dont want magplar DPS" well yea the guilds that are pushing to complete these harder modes and want to get good scores arent going to allow classes that dont fit the group comp they are looking for, but there are guilds out there that dont care what you bring because they are just doing it for fun, and thats the kind of guild you are most likely looking for. The Meta will most likely shift then your class becomes more in demand. That is how the PvE world has always worked.

There is no other way for these top raid guilds to feel as tho they get something for being the best raid guilds if you take out LBs. im sure someone will say there are skins and titles to get to show you are the best, but there is only 1 skin and maybe 2 titles that arent a meme everything else that drops from PvE content is so easy to get that it means nothing if you have it, like the Dro Mathra skin means nothing now its so easy to get and the title that comes from beating vMOL HM doesnt mean anything anymore either because ZOS allowed an exploit in the trial that allowed people to cheat in order to clear HM

And as far the the PvE Community being toxic its obvious that you havent ever PvPed because that community is a ton more toxic than the PvE community. And ive been apart of both for a very long time.

Just becuase you are butt hurt about not being able to get the top scores on Lbs and are upset that your Orc Mag NB isnt the best doesnt mean that Lbs should be taken away. Thats just flawed logic.

Asardes · November 2017

Good players are usually not toxic players, but are far more likely to be genuinely helpful. I have very good players in my guild, people with Flawless Conquer on all classes/builds, all trials cleared on HM/no-death that always answer you when you ask for build and strategy advice on guild chat. Same goes on the forums. The toxic players are usually bad players, who feel entitled to beat certain PvE content or other players in PvP, and always blame others, and ask the developers for nerfs and other changes because they can't be bothered to get good at the game. That's the real toxicity that kills the game, not Hodor, Aquila or Dragon's Crest players doing a new best score in a trial and topping the leaderboards. I know I'm not as good as those players, and probably never be, due to the fact I don't have that much time to play, or simply good reflexes, but that doesn't prevent me from working towards hard clears and putting my chars on leaderboards. It gives me something to works towards. I don't see any toxicity here. Even if they got rid of them, there will still be toxicity because there will always be people who whine instead of working to improve themselves.

Luckylancer · November 2017

I think this is a terrible idea. End game pve lovers need a place to try hard too. If min/maxers that offended you try for leaderboards, thay are doing it wrong in first place. They beed a good group with eager players to min/max even more.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · November 2017

DjMuscleboy02 wrote: »

I can't tell if this is a troll or quite possibly the stupidest topic I've seen since I began viewing forums.

Trust me, there have been dumber topic then this one. Why just look on the 1st page or two of the forum to see what I mean.

starlizard70ub17_ESO · November 2017

JackWest92 wrote: »

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

"Respect" why? It is a separate game. And as an MMO it can extend and grow

Because it's not one game. It's a franchise. Same as World of Warcraft is respecting Warcraft lore and FFXIV has to respect general final fantasy lore. Otherwise it does not belong in the franchise and would need to name itself something else. Not to mention the fact that the game is actually placed in the official elder scrolls timeline.

World of Warcraft has been "writing" its own continuation of the "warcraft lore" in the last 3 expansions. I dont know what are you on about. "Warcraft lore" doesnt have any pandas, or altering the past or second legion invasion, yet its all in World of Warcraft. They hit "the end" of the lore from Warcraft and continued it in order for the game to go on. You think that will and cannot happen to ESO? What about the "lore" from the next Elder Scrolls game then? That will never be part of ESO?

They justify anything they do in ESO as respect to TES lore by saying we are in a "Dragon Break". A space out of time, so the only lore in future TES game about ESO timeline is the same as it was in the past games.
Some sort of rebellion happened, an emperor was murdered, chaos ensued, 3 alliances formed and went to war, some Daedric princes got involved, lots of people died, later on some guy by the name of Tiber Septim showed up to start unifying Tamrial and nothing we do as the vestige will ever be remembered except in half myths and legends.