PVE leaderboards should be removed

Feanor

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

I couldn’t think of something more toxic than telling others to leave the game though. The hypocrisy is strong.

Merely a question of who leaves and whose interest might get caught by the changes of the community, in my most humble opinion. The state of end game participation does merit some re-thinking.

Yes, end game participation needs more incentives if anything. In the end it’s really easy. If you’re a good enough player (meaning you don’t need to be carried because you manage 15 to 20k DPS, or as a tank can hold Aggro and debuff the NPCs, or as a healer can keep everyone alive and buff your group accordingly), you’ll not encounter any problems. If you’re not you‘re going to be told, leaderboards or no.

I‘m impressed that anyone can honestly believe bad players will be treated better if you remove leaderboards.

Im equally impressed by the fact that there are people being quite pedantic about leaderboards in ESO when there are more prestigious raid environments in other mmo. Talking of bad players and how not everyone has what it takes, would be my thinking.

Love

If you don’t „have“ it - which is totally fine by the way - why do leaderboards bother you? If someone is a jerk about your performance he is either right or just that - a jerk. Leaderboards don’t change that.

The convenient thing about these debates is that the right sort of people rarely fail to make your point for you. Merci bien.

No, the convenient thing in those debates is that people who don’t have any arguments are trying to obscure that with empty phrases. Merci bien indeed.

JackWest92

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

I couldn’t think of something more toxic than telling others to leave the game though. The hypocrisy is strong.

Merely a question of who leaves and whose interest might get caught by the changes of the community, in my most humble opinion. The state of end game participation does merit some re-thinking.

Yes, end game participation needs more incentives if anything. In the end it’s really easy. If you’re a good enough player (meaning you don’t need to be carried because you manage 15 to 20k DPS, or as a tank can hold Aggro and debuff the NPCs, or as a healer can keep everyone alive and buff your group accordingly), you’ll not encounter any problems. If you’re not you‘re going to be told, leaderboards or no.

I‘m impressed that anyone can honestly believe bad players will be treated better if you remove leaderboards.

Im equally impressed by the fact that there are people being quite pedantic about leaderboards in ESO when there are more prestigious raid environments in other mmo. Talking of bad players and how not everyone has what it takes, would be my thinking.

Love

If you don’t „have“ it - which is totally fine by the way - why do leaderboards bother you? If someone is a jerk about your performance he is either right or just that - a jerk. Leaderboards don’t change that.

The convenient thing about these debates is that the right sort of people rarely fail to make your point for you. Merci bien.

No, the convenient thing in those debates is that people who don’t have any arguments are trying to obscure that with empty phrases. Merci bien indeed.

Thats how I can sum up most people chanting "stop complaining, you entitled kids, and play the game as it is" in the thread about vampirism. Nobody provided any arguments other than "lore" and there are multiple ways to fit it in the lore. And now, one of those guys comes here and makes this pointless thread...

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Thats how I can sum up most people chanting "stop complaining, you entitled kids, and play the game as it is" in the thread about vampirism. Nobody provided any arguments other than "lore" and there are multiple ways to fit it in the lore. And now, one of those guys comes here and makes this pointless thread...

And we countered said lore adjustments. And if this thread is pointless to you, you are welcome not to participate. All I can see in this thread is precisely why features such as leaderboards should just be disabled, when such behavior is as widespread as this.

newtinmpls

PvE leaderboards? I didn't even know they existed.

Oh well.

Fallewarrior

"PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game."

Big lol

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Thats how I can sum up most people chanting "stop complaining, you entitled kids, and play the game as it is" in the thread about vampirism. Nobody provided any arguments other than "lore" and there are multiple ways to fit it in the lore. And now, one of those guys comes here and makes this pointless thread...

And we countered said lore adjustments.

No you didn't. You just kept repeating the said "argument". The last "argument counter" you did, was to say there is only one person that can accomplish my suggestion and he wouldnt, lorewise. Multiple people actually said that is not true, and there are several characters. So, what exactly did you "counter"?

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

No you didn't. You just kept repeating the said "argument". The last "argument counter" you did, was to say there is only one person that can accomplish my suggestion and he wouldnt, lorewise. Multiple people actually said that is not true, and there are several characters. So, what exactly did you "counter"?

Which quests are said twins in? Might need to visit them in person.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

No you didn't. You just kept repeating the said "argument". The last "argument counter" you did, was to say there is only one person that can accomplish my suggestion and he wouldnt, lorewise. Multiple people actually said that is not true, and there are several characters. So, what exactly did you "counter"?

Which quests are said twins in? Might need to visit them in person.

Scroll the topic and find. It was mentioned twice I believe. I dont care for the lore enough to read all the details. Was enough that people confirmed its more than "one guy". And it's never too late to introduce a new character that can do such thing. You know, the thing about the lore in MMO is that it is not finished book

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Scroll the topic and find. It was mentioned twice I believe. I dont care for the lore enough to read all the details. Was enough that people confirmed its more than "one guy". And it's never too late to introduce a new character that can do such thing. You know, the thing about the lore in MMO is that it is not finished book

No, but it is also running on already pre-set lore (Elder Scrolls) that it has to respect.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Scroll the topic and find. It was mentioned twice I believe. I dont care for the lore enough to read all the details. Was enough that people confirmed its more than "one guy". And it's never too late to introduce a new character that can do such thing. You know, the thing about the lore in MMO is that it is not finished book

No, but it is also running on already pre-set lore (Elder Scrolls) that it has to respect.

"Respect" why? It is a separate game. And as an MMO it can extend and grow

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

"Respect" why? It is a separate game. And as an MMO it can extend and grow

Because it's not one game. It's a franchise. Same as World of Warcraft is respecting Warcraft lore and FFXIV has to respect general final fantasy lore. Otherwise it does not belong in the franchise and would need to name itself something else. Not to mention the fact that the game is actually placed in the official elder scrolls timeline.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

"Respect" why? It is a separate game. And as an MMO it can extend and grow

Because it's not one game. It's a franchise. Same as World of Warcraft is respecting Warcraft lore and FFXIV has to respect general final fantasy lore. Otherwise it does not belong in the franchise and would need to name itself something else. Not to mention the fact that the game is actually placed in the official elder scrolls timeline.

World of Warcraft has been "writing" its own continuation of the "warcraft lore" in the last 3 expansions. I dont know what are you on about. "Warcraft lore" doesnt have any pandas, or altering the past or second legion invasion, yet its all in World of Warcraft. They hit "the end" of the lore from Warcraft and continued it in order for the game to go on. You think that will and cannot happen to ESO? What about the "lore" from the next Elder Scrolls game then? That will never be part of ESO?

ol_BANK_lo

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

It's very apparent from the vampirism thread that players feel forced into specific races, or conditions just to be at max possible optimization to get on that leaderboard. Without a leaderboard worlds first races would still happen, however I believe that it would help to alleviate the toxicity between anyone below that level. FFXIV and GW2 avoided putting in leaderboards for PVE environment for this very reason. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless how fast they finished the content as long as they finished it.

PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game.

EDIT: a lot of answers in this thread very well prove the level of toxicity that this community has sunk to.

I disagree. You still get the rewards for completing the content, just not the weekly rewards. You get all the loot of the bosses for finishing. Many people strive for weekly and overall leaderboards. It's competitive drive. Nothing wrong with that. They aren't getting anything you aren't. They just have one extra chance per week. Not a big deal. Move along, bigger issues to deal with.

LadyNalcarya

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Scroll the topic and find. It was mentioned twice I believe. I dont care for the lore enough to read all the details. Was enough that people confirmed its more than "one guy". And it's never too late to introduce a new character that can do such thing. You know, the thing about the lore in MMO is that it is not finished book

No, but it is also running on already pre-set lore (Elder Scrolls) that it has to respect.

Then the original Morrowind shouldnt have been created, because it drastically changed the tone of the series and introduced a ton of new concepts.
Also, lore-friendly female armor should look like this:

Zer0oo

Let's just remove all other players so the game will be less toxic.

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

World of Warcraft has been "writing" its own continuation of the "warcraft lore" in the last 3 expansions. I dont know what are you on about

Because it's set in the future. Nonetheless it still respects racial boundaries and what should and should not have been possible. We're set approximately 800 years in the past.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

World of Warcraft has been "writing" its own continuation of the "warcraft lore" in the last 3 expansions. I dont know what are you on about

Because it's set in the future. Nonetheless it still respects racial boundaries and what should and should not have been possible. We're set approximately 800 years in the past.

As I edited my previous comment. What about the next Elder Scrolls game? What about its "lore". You think it will never be part of ESO?

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

As I edited my previous comment. What about the next Elder Scrolls game? What about its "lore". You think it will never be part of ESO?

Depends when they set it. That is, if we will get another elder scrolls game while an MMO is actively running. Which is unlikely.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

As I edited my previous comment. What about the next Elder Scrolls game? What about its "lore". You think it will never be part of ESO?

Depends when they set it. That is, if we will get another elder scrolls game while an MMO is actively running. Which is unlikely.

I am pretty sure my friend, who is an Elder Scrolls maniac said something about another game in the next year or two. Not sure if there is actually one coming though

Danksta

This is clearly a thread made with the intentions of bashing the competitive PvE community, so who's the toxic one now? I know I'm not the one judging a group of people based off the actions of a small fraction of said group.

Feanor

I love how the thread got totally derailed with vampires in ESO lore part 2.

mirta000b16_ESO

Danksta wrote: »

This is clearly a thread made with the intentions of bashing the competitive PvE community, so who's the toxic one now? I know I'm not the one judging a group of people based off the actions of a small fraction of said group.

I don't see how am I attacking you? If you removed the leaderboards the hardcore would still compete like they've always done. However it would bleed-down to midcore less, making the casual pug life more tolerable.

GrigorijMalahevich

Guys, please stay on topic. #NerfSorc

LadyNalcarya

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

This is clearly a thread made with the intentions of bashing the competitive PvE community, so who's the toxic one now? I know I'm not the one judging a group of people based off the actions of a small fraction of said group.

However it would bleed-down to midcore less, making the casual pug life more tolerable.

How exactly?

Feanor

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Danksta wrote: »

This is clearly a thread made with the intentions of bashing the competitive PvE community, so who's the toxic one now? I know I'm not the one judging a group of people based off the actions of a small fraction of said group.

I don't see how am I attacking you? If you removed the leaderboards the hardcore would still compete like they've always done. However it would bleed-down to midcore less, making the casual pug life more tolerable.

The casual pug life would still consist mainly of having to run dungeons with players who are not good enough to do so. I have yet to encounter a player who was berating someone for bad performance yelling „I’m on the vAA leaderboard scrub“ when the other player was pulling his weight.

Wifeaggro13

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

It's very apparent from the vampirism thread that players feel forced into specific races, or conditions just to be at max possible optimization to get on that leaderboard. Without a leaderboard worlds first races would still happen, however I believe that it would help to alleviate the toxicity between anyone below that level. FFXIV and GW2 avoided putting in leaderboards for PVE environment for this very reason. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless how fast they finished the content as long as they finished it.

PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game.

EDIT: a lot of answers in this thread very well prove the level of toxicity that this community has sunk to.

its primarily because the leaderboards are DPS dependent, very poor design the whole game philosophy was based off this so much so that for 95 percent of the content you don't need any role but dps and off heals. had they actually layered the combat mechanics you would have true CC ,true buffing , and true utility. all the combat layers are just secondary effects of a dps ability. had the leader boards had more to them instead speed and damage the game would play better. as of now its so rudimentary the population is just a turn style visitors center.

Motherball

Feanor wrote: »

If you ask me, game should announce DPS/HPS after every boss fight in PvE content to the whole group without any addons.

Imagine the outcry. People already can’t handle that someone sees their loot. #nooblivesmatter

Weiner must be thus big to participate :eyeroll

LiquidPony

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

It's very apparent from the vampirism thread that players feel forced into specific races, or conditions just to be at max possible optimization to get on that leaderboard. Without a leaderboard worlds first races would still happen, however I believe that it would help to alleviate the toxicity between anyone below that level. FFXIV and GW2 avoided putting in leaderboards for PVE environment for this very reason. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless how fast they finished the content as long as they finished it.

PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game.

EDIT: a lot of answers in this thread very well prove the level of toxicity that this community has sunk to.

Nah, sorry, but this is just a bad idea.

Where do you get this idea that "PvP is the competitive part of an MMO?" Raiding has always been competitive. I don't really care for PvP and I like competitive play ... the ESO Trials scene is perfect for me. I love it.

In fact, I wish ZOS would add dungeon scores and leaderboards. That would be really cool and would give people a reason to run dungeons other than the gear grind.

ValkynSketha

Mate the end game in this community is so small, your whole raid can be eating, driving and picking their nose while playing and still get on leaderboard.
Also do you really think if leaderboard got removed that the top/moderate or lets say progressive guilds will just get mindwashed and just accept the same player that was dieing alot, not getting prepaired, not doing mechanics, not listening to advise ...etc
Leaderboard scores and maybe their gold reward is the only reason to run trials over and over, remove it and even casual players will stop running trials after a couple runs.
You could of suggested a feedback on racials, like transferring resources racials to attributes or armour passives.

Izaki

Voxicity wrote: »

Yeah, remove the little remaining part of content for competitive PvE players so not just half of them quit the game, but all of them

That's basically what I wanted to say, but much shorter and more to the point.