PVE leaderboards should be removed

Demycilian

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Chilly-McFreeze

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

It's very apparent from the vampirism thread that players feel forced into specific races, or conditions just to be at max possible optimization to get on that leaderboard. Without a leaderboard worlds first races would still happen, however I believe that it would help to alleviate the toxicity between anyone below that level. FFXIV and GW2 avoided putting in leaderboards for PVE environment for this very reason. Everyone should get the same rewards, regardless how fast they finished the content as long as they finished it.

PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game.

Gosh, what do you care?

It's not like you will ever join a pug and reach for leaderboards with it.

If you don't like other people, fine, go get yourself some friends and play with them.
Leaderboards are for those who are after them. You don't want to experience the stress, don't join a guild that heads that way.

DRXHarbinger

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

OP just be honest here, Did you pick a class and race you just don't like and are salty about buying a race change token or something? Hoping you whine on here will get them erased and it won't matter anymore? You have 0 argument for having leaderboards removed.

I'm actually perfectly happy with my gameplay as it is.

The issue is simply just how much high and mighty attitudes I'm encountering on the forums and just how much of a difference there is in games without leaderboards. Heck those games are using add ons to upload parses online and have a "leaderboard" there and yet it still translates to a less toxic forum/ in-game environment.

Just the fact that I've gotten a few "your account should be deleted" shows what kind of hostility became acceptable here.

Then just ignore them or don't play with them, I only play in 2 guilds, My trial group is 11 other people only. we will NEVER run with anyone else. Not being anti social about it but we've been friends for like 15 years and split through out Europe so playing games online is an ideal way to keep in touch and have fun. And a PVP guild that we join and just type in "LFZerg" to join up and go on the troll with. And we enjoy it. Find what you enjoy and that's all that matters. If leaderboards aren't your thing and people are raging over it, let them, move on and find another group. It's not the end of the world.

But please just leave my rewards alone, I'm worse than Smaug when it comes to gold and no one dare take that away from me.

LadyNalcarya

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Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Well... Thats actually pretty rude.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Turelus

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

OP just be honest here, Did you pick a class and race you just don't like and are salty about buying a race change token or something? Hoping you whine on here will get them erased and it won't matter anymore? You have 0 argument for having leaderboards removed.

I'm actually perfectly happy with my gameplay as it is.

The issue is simply just how much high and mighty attitudes I'm encountering on the forums and just how much of a difference there is in games without leaderboards. Heck those games are using add ons to upload parses online and have a "leaderboard" there and yet it still translates to a less toxic forum/ in-game environment.

Just the fact that I've gotten a few "your account should be deleted" shows what kind of hostility became acceptable here.

You also had people like myself who gave you well structured arguments as to why what you're saying doesn't need to be.

You can't base game changes and the entire community off of a few people. There are loads of great players in this community who don't act like jerks.
Hell even most of HODOR who are one of the top PvE guilds don't trash talk everyone who's not at their level, they even have builds and guides which everyone can see and learn from.

The people you're complaining about are just the jerks of the game, which every community has. Regardless of leaderboards being in the game they'll still find a way to look down on everyone else because they want feel like (or think) they're better than others.

Find a group of good players who match your thoughts and gameplay style and play with them, when you do encounter morons on the forums just shake your head and laugh at them then move on.

I have played plenty of MMO games, many of which didn't have leaderboards for PvE and there were still people who acted you're saying because others didn't match "their" perception of what's best.

So one last time. This is individual moron players, not the entire community!

/endrant

Woeler

Here's another deal for you. You don't have to play in the competitive pve environment. Wow, mind blown.

Demycilian

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

Feanor

Woeler wrote: »

Here's another deal for you. You don't have to play in the competitive pve environment. Wow, mind blown.

But what would he be able to complain about then? Maybe Sorcs. Hm. Ok. This is now another nerf Sorc thread.

Kel

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

Voxicity wrote: »

Yeah, remove the little remaining part of content for competitive PvE players so not just half of them quit the game, but all of them

Funny considering that a lot of games with hard raid content have no leaderboards and somehow their hardcore population does not go running away.

Other MMO's may not have leaderboads, but they do have things like first world races, where teams compete to be the first to down the hardest content in the game.
So, your thinking in general is flawed. Other games have and do encourage competition in PvE. Just don't participate, and let other players enjoy what they like. Just like in life, working harder to be better can be a good thing. If leaderboards encourage players to be better and reach for goals, good for those players.

LadyNalcarya

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

It seems to be a popular trend among some of forum posters.
I'm pretty sure that most of them never even met players theyre bashing (most of them dont pug and prefer to play with their friends). Seems like words like "raiding guild", "leaderboard" and such have become an equivalent of Bogeyman for some people...
Its both sad and hilarious.
I means, fighting imaginary enemies might be a popular hobby, but on the other hand, it doesnt justify bashing other players.

Feanor

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

You’re absolutely right. Everyone knows the real good guys have no interest in leaderboards because they just meet at a tavern and enjoy their RP while basking in their absolute mediocrity.

A world that is all black and white is so much easier to process I guess.

LadyNalcarya

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

Toxic behavior isnt related to playstyle.
I've seen many toxic players that werent particulalry skilled or competitive. In fact, the majority of hate /tells I got in this game were from people I killed in pvp (and I'm not even good at it).

mirta000b16_ESO

jabrone77 wrote: »

Other MMO's may not have leaderboads, but they do have things like first world races, where teams compete to be the first to down the hardest content in the game.
So, your thinking in general is flawed. Other games have and do encourage competition in PvE. Just don't participate, and let other players enjoy what they like. Just like in life, working harder to be better can be a good thing. If leaderboards encourage players to be better and reach for goals, good for those players.

I'm not saying "remove world's first races", however by taking all visibility of this out of the game directly and moving it onto supporting sites where only people that are interested in this sort of thing go, the bleed-down to the casual player and a pug group is much lesser. That way the only ones feeling the meta pressures are the ones directly interested in it.

As for encouraging players to be better, other games arrived with specific tutorials and player led mentoring as solutions.

Zagnut123Zagnut123

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Turelus

LadyNalcarya wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

It seems to be a popular trend among some of forum posters.
I'm pretty sure that most of them never even met players theyre bashing (most of them dont pug and prefer to play with their friends). Seems like words like "raiding guild", "leaderboard" and such have become an equivalent of Bogeyman for some people...
Its both sad and hilarious.
I means, fighting imaginary enemies might be a popular hobby, but on the other hand, it doesnt justify bashing other players.

Sadly with how word spreads within this game there is a kind of culture within some groups that feel there is an elite in ESO which causes all the problems.

I've seen and heard about conversations where players believe veteran content can't be done unless you're in the top 1% of the game, because that's what they've been told. I've even heard of one guild which would kick members if they discussed builds/meta openly because they didn't want "one of those guilds".

Sadly some of those who can't complete content or refuse to learn or understand why and would rather spread misinformation or be mad at these fictional enemies than admit it might be themselves who are the ones at fault.

AzraelKrieg

Some of the response in favour of this are worth of the holiest of facepalms.

Marabornwingrion

Looks like someone couldn't get a place on leaderboard.
QQ, so salty.

Demycilian

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

GrigorijMalahevich

Feanor wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Here's another deal for you. You don't have to play in the competitive pve environment. Wow, mind blown.

But what would he be able to complain about then? Maybe Sorcs. Hm. Ok. This is now another nerf Sorc thread.

#nerfsorcs !!!

Finally, the thread started to go in the correct direction. This is now officialy nerf sorcs thread!

Feanor

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

I couldn’t think of something more toxic than telling others to leave the game though. The hypocrisy is strong.

JackWest92

Troll bait much? Dont you have anything better to do, man?

Demycilian

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

I couldn’t think of something more toxic than telling others to leave the game though. The hypocrisy is strong.

Merely a question of who leaves and whose interest might get caught by the changes of the community, in my most humble opinion. The state of end game participation does merit some re-thinking.

mirta000b16_ESO

JackWest92 wrote: »

Troll bait much? Dont you have anything better to do, man?

I honestly think that removing the leaderboards would improve your average player experience. Don't see anything trollish here.

Aerithone

PVP - performance competition between ppl`s PCs, so remove PVP leaderboards.

Asardes

Remove the grapes because they are sour anyway ...

Dymence

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

PvP is the competitive part of an MMO. There's no need for players to be experiencing toxicity when they're playing the PVE part of the game.

EDIT: a lot of answers in this thread very well prove the level of toxicity that this community has sunk to.

The ignorance is absolutely astounding. Just because you do not enjoy PVE does not mean PVP is the only competitive part of an MMO. I'd even argue the PVE scene in this game is more competitive than the PVP scene as PVP in ESO currently is an absolute joke.

There is an endgame PVE scene in nearly every MMO and people will min max to get the best out of their performance. In some games (WoW) it is even mandatory to min max your character to even clear raids. ESO raids are much more casual in that regard. Hence leaderboards, to have some sense of competition.

If this thread is about the whole vampirism debate, then maybe you should brush up on your reading skills, as the whole thread is about introducing an optional skin that retains your natural character appearance to hide vampirism.

Feanor

Demycilian wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

Zagnut123Zagnut123 wrote: »

Demycilian wrote: »

I would say that noone outside the toxic elements of the playerbase can possibly have an interest in these "leaderboards". Leaves me with the question of why ZOS are maintaining them. Sadly, this company has a knack to go for the wrong choice at every possible opportunity.

Because competition is fun for alot of people. The kind of people that make raiding toxic will make anything they touch toxic eather pvp or pve. How does it affect you if ppl compete leaderboard scores.

Are you now asking me how toxic behaviour does affect other players in an mmo?

I'm asking how does competitive leaderboards existance affect you. As many have stated toxic ppl will just find something else to be toxic at lime PvP. Do you want to be apart of end game pve but can't or something

Nothing wrong with them finding some other theater for toxic drama tho? Another game would do entirely, imo. In that regard i see no point in ZOS providing them with means or incentives.

I couldn’t think of something more toxic than telling others to leave the game though. The hypocrisy is strong.

Merely a question of who leaves and whose interest might get caught by the changes of the community, in my most humble opinion. The state of end game participation does merit some re-thinking.

Yes, end game participation needs more incentives if anything. In the end it’s really easy. If you’re a good enough player (meaning you don’t need to be carried because you manage 15 to 20k DPS, or as a tank can hold Aggro and debuff the NPCs, or as a healer can keep everyone alive and buff your group accordingly), you’ll not encounter any problems. If you’re not you‘re going to be told, leaderboards or no.

I‘m impressed that anyone can honestly believe bad players will be treated better if you remove leaderboards.

JackWest92

mirta000b16_ESO wrote: »

JackWest92 wrote: »

Troll bait much? Dont you have anything better to do, man?

I honestly think that removing the leaderboards would improve your average player experience. Don't see anything trollish here.

Thats the issue. But then, some people think the Earth is flat

mirta000b16_ESO

Dymence wrote: »

The ignorance is absolutely astounding. Just because you do not enjoy PVE does not mean PVP is the only competitive part of an MMO. I'd even argue the PVE scene in this game is more competitive than the PVP scene as PVP in ESO currently is an absolute joke.

PVE is also competitive, yes, however actively not encouraging it produced better communities in other games. Competition stays, however with no in-game indication of said competition the remaining population is far less toxic.

Dymence wrote: »

If this thread is about the whole vampirism debate, then maybe you should brush up on your reading skills, as the whole thread is about introducing an optional skin that retains your natural character appearance to hide vampirism.

It actively impacts lore and our world immersion.