Maintenance for the week of September 8:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – September 8
• PC/Mac: EU megaserver for maintenance – September 9, 22:00 UTC (6:00PM EDT) - September 10, 16:00 UTC (12:00PM EDT) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/682784
**The Reason Why The PTS is Pretty Much Pointless I Can Tell You Why.**
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xenowarrior92eb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Ok, want to address a few things here.
First, we've thought about ways to incentivize participation on the PTS, but have always run into issues. For example:- The more bugs you report, the more rewards you get! This won't work because players might simply report random things as bugs just so they can reach the threshold.
- Log in/complete a thing/get to this point and you get a reward! This isn't quite fair to our console players who don't have access to the PTS. We could just do rewards that already exist, but where's the incentive with that?
As for us "not caring" about PTS feedback, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Many of our devs stay late just to read your feedback, whether it be on new systems, areas, or yes, even combat balance and changes. We've mentioned this before, but just because we don't change something doesn't mean we aren't reading and taking it to heart. PTS is extremely valuable not just for feedback, but also bug reports. Look at each week's patch notes - you are a big part of why things get found!
Everyone, let's please stop bashing the team or making assumptions. This is your first and last warning.
I just cant rezist not to leave this here im sorry but I just cant
Edited by xenowarrior92eb17_ESO on October 31, 2017 1:58AM5 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IronCrystal wrote: »IronCrystal wrote: »
Anyone else get flashbacks of Morrowind PTS reading this?ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Ok, want to address a few things here.
First, we've thought about ways to incentivize participation on the PTS, but have always run into issues. For example:- The more bugs you report, the more rewards you get! This won't work because players might simply report random things as bugs just so they can reach the threshold.
- Log in/complete a thing/get to this point and you get a reward! This isn't quite fair to our console players who don't have access to the PTS. We could just do rewards that already exist, but where's the incentive with that?
As for us "not caring" about PTS feedback, this couldn't be farther from the truth. Many of our devs stay late just to read your feedback, whether it be on new systems, areas, or yes, even combat balance and changes. We've mentioned this before, but just because we don't change something doesn't mean we aren't reading and taking it to heart. PTS is extremely valuable not just for feedback, but also bug reports. Look at each week's patch notes - you are a big part of why things get found!
Everyone, let's please stop bashing the team or making assumptions. This is your first and last warning.
I sure did.
Morrowind was the largest *** show in terms of PTS testing and them not responding to any of the criticisims of the balance changes.
I still look through guild rosters and see people who haven't logged in since Morrowind dropped. That update was the final straw for many players.
The changes that drove them off was the resetting sustain that affected all of us. Not the balance cI sit here after scanning through 2 pages and realize that OP is probably right somewhat, but at the same time bugs do get fixed on the PTS. It is simply that many times other obvious bugs do not get fixed and when PTS goes live any bugs tend to not get fixed for a long time unless its game breaking, or even not fixed at all.
I still find it amusing that one bug since beta was declared a feature that players learned how to use in a fashion where LTP became a viable response instead of an insult. I mean really, animation cancelling can be awesome if you actually learn the timings and such.
OP is rather wrong. Players on the PTS testing with the goal of getting a mount does not mean actual real information discovered by the player would be given as feedback. Heck, man that post in the PTS forums do not even go there.
We would have arm chair warriors blindly regurgitating what they saw posted in other threads and get a mount. Great idea. Load in, pretend and copy from someone else.
Besides, it would clearly tell consoles Zos hates them. Bad idea all around.
How is "resetting sustain" not a balance change?
"Resetting sustain that effected all of us" - if everyone gets nerfed, no one is is the disadvantage.
But still, it was reason for leaving.
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Gandrhulf_Harbard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »
"Resetting sustain that effected all of us" - if everyone gets nerfed, no one is is the disadvantage.
But still, it was reason for leaving.
That assumes everyone got nerfed equally - they didn't.
All The BestEdited by Gandrhulf_Harbard on October 31, 2017 10:16AMThose memories come back to haunt me, they haunt me like a curse.
Is a dream a lie if it don't come true, or is it something worse.1 -
TazESO✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »That's no fact at all.
The only people who can possibly know what "the majority" thinks and if said majority is happy or not is ZOS. They are the only ones who know for sure if we, as a MAJORITY, play or quit, buy or don't buy, and what we do in the game.
You simply have no figures, no data to back up what is obviously a plain assumption from your side.
^ You are absolutely correct and that's something I used to say a lot. BUT, if you are asking a PTS community on your official forums to help and assist you in a process, then that PTS community is 100% of people that are helping you on this task, however small of your player base. And however small, those guys are doing their best to offer you various stats and shortcomings for free.
And most of the time ZOS completely ignores the feedback, rarely responds, never states anything except few "dev. comments". You never know that anyone at HQ even read them seriously. How could you when most of the changes are the opposite of the ones reported? And Cyrodiil performance at prime time has been ignored for at least 2 years. People complained and complained and for what? For silence on ZOS' end. You can't point finger at your angry PTS/PVP player base now. That's not the way it works.
You said it : FOR FREE.
PTS players accept to do it FOR FREE. That does not only mean that they do not get paid, it also means that they are not entitled to get their feedback taken into consideration. ZOS does not have to justify why they do - or don't do - things. If they did, they would probably have to pay 20 people to argue on this forum full time.
I know you're going to say "but all we need is some sort of explanation" : well, look at the few times they did (be it Rich or Eric or Gina) start a somewhat in-depth explanation of some of their decisions, and see how that went. People will only listen to what they already believe to be true, and call BS on everything else.
There are multiple issues here...
- (Some) People don't know how to be polite
- (Many) people cannot differentiate between the actual state of the game and their personal perception of it
- (Many) people cannot differentiate between what is actually good for the game and their personal preferences
- etc etc...
Also, I tend to laugh when people ask for "honest communication". Corporate communication CANNOT be fully honest.
And finally, far too many people believe that PTS is for global design testing. PTS is for large-scale performance testing and bug finding. Global design has been set a long time ago and will not be changed anymore. And if at all, ZOS will iterate based on what we DO, more than on what we SAY.
THIS.0 -
TazESO✭✭✭HeroOfNone wrote: »I question if it's ZOS that doesn't listen or just the player base, since I've had to repeat this same message to some of you salty individual that seem not to think about anyone but yourselves:
"ZOS listens to feedback, but they don't necessarily agree with YOUR feedback"
There is a lot of back and forth discussion on things like class balance. Saying they don't listen because they don't listen because they don't take on every single discussion is ludicrous and a good way to break the game even more.
Some folks hate or love on only one class. So when the discussion focuses one those, folks recommend all these nerfs or buffs thst don't fit with anything else. Plus they don't consider how pissed off a class would be if you reduced it's DPS to deal with PVP but then Aldo made it weak in PVE.
As for feedback on the PTS, I'm happy to say most of the problems or errors I find get addressed at some point if I report the problem and don't focus on the solution.
Now the three major problems I see that ZOS does need to address are:
1. There's no incentive to get a large number of players on PTS. This limits the load testing we can do on pvp and other areas.
2. Folks have no incentive to report exploits. Folks even come onto pts as an exploit proving ground and then take it to live.
3. Those of us that test are getting spoilers. Not much I can say here unless ZOS develops a way to hide spoilers as we test on the PTS. There are similar issues with its marketing team giving out spoilers in its commercials too though...
So yeah, they listen & yes they have issues. I understand some of you feel disenfranchised by all of this, but look carefully at the feedback, they do much more than a lot of other MMOs out there. If you think not, I don't think you're reading the forums here enough and might be stuck inside an echo chamber of negativity.
@HeroOfNone interesting sensible post, as usual. But I am wondering why I rarely see you in ESO anymore on your Twitch stream???0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....3 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity Manager
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
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rhapsodious✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
Thanks for popping in, it's appreciated. Can we expect further comments on anything upthread, maybe an idea of any plans you have going forward wrt communication (if you have them at this point)?0 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
Thank you.-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
Thank you. This is what we have been asking for, a response.0 -
HeroOfNone✭✭✭✭✭
✭HeroOfNone wrote: »I question if it's ZOS that doesn't listen or just the player base, since I've had to repeat this same message to some of you salty individual that seem not to think about anyone but yourselves:
"ZOS listens to feedback, but they don't necessarily agree with YOUR feedback"
There is a lot of back and forth discussion on things like class balance. Saying they don't listen because they don't listen because they don't take on every single discussion is ludicrous and a good way to break the game even more.
Some folks hate or love on only one class. So when the discussion focuses one those, folks recommend all these nerfs or buffs thst don't fit with anything else. Plus they don't consider how pissed off a class would be if you reduced it's DPS to deal with PVP but then Aldo made it weak in PVE.
As for feedback on the PTS, I'm happy to say most of the problems or errors I find get addressed at some point if I report the problem and don't focus on the solution.
Now the three major problems I see that ZOS does need to address are:
1. There's no incentive to get a large number of players on PTS. This limits the load testing we can do on pvp and other areas.
2. Folks have no incentive to report exploits. Folks even come onto pts as an exploit proving ground and then take it to live.
3. Those of us that test are getting spoilers. Not much I can say here unless ZOS develops a way to hide spoilers as we test on the PTS. There are similar issues with its marketing team giving out spoilers in its commercials too though...
So yeah, they listen & yes they have issues. I understand some of you feel disenfranchised by all of this, but look carefully at the feedback, they do much more than a lot of other MMOs out there. If you think not, I don't think you're reading the forums here enough and might be stuck inside an echo chamber of negativity.
@HeroOfNone interesting sensible post, as usual. But I am wondering why I rarely see you in ESO anymore on your Twitch stream???
I changed schedules up. I typically stream Friday to Monday ESO then other games Tuesday to Thursday. If you're wondering why I'm not in PVP, loooooot of questing and dungeons.0 -
socivL✭✭✭how is it even feasible to be able to parse all this stacks of text and responding ? - it's some freak mutant thing.
i lose interest after a few blocks of text.2 templars - 1 cup0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
I'm happy with this.
And I'm happy that your suggesting it.
And I'm willing to set my animosity aside if we can expect regular, consistant communication on a class front.
If I could hug you through the screen, I would. I hope today forward is the day, we can start working -together- again, Devs and playerbase. I'm willing to own my mistakes if everyone else is, too.0 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭Ok so what do you guys think zos should do with the pts ???TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
paulsimonps✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭JonnytheKing wrote: »Ok so what do you guys think zos should do with the pts ???
Like the PTS as is, just need to keep improving on the Templates. Which now that we have unlimited retrait crystals and all possible sets and weapons we got pretty much all we would need.2 -
Onefrkncrzypope✭✭✭✭✭
✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
I'm happy with this.
And I'm happy that your suggesting it.
And I'm willing to set my animosity aside if we can expect regular, consistant communication on a class front.
If I could hug you through the screen, I would. I hope today forward is the day, we can start working -together- again, Devs and playerbase. I'm willing to own my mistakes if everyone else is, too.
Can I has hug to?-Immortal Redeemer-
-Extinguisher of Flames-
-Gryphon Heart-
-Potato-
If I edited a post, it was for spelling. It is always because of spelling....0 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »Doctordarkspawn wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »
That's actually not a bad idea. Will see if this is feasible.Onefrkncrzypope wrote: »The problem is communication. If this issue with the community will ever be squashed it will be communication.
@ZOS_GinaBruno We as a community cannot take the word that they read thier pts threads. It's so common it's a saying. Seeing is believing. I remember the colorblind thread I can't remember his name(I know which one just bad with names) just said lurking. Sometimes that is all it takes. While other a short open conversation with the community would help.
Why don't the devs make a AMA thread once a month for each class. Have a sit down with us and talk balance and fixes and future ideas about the class. Sure some classes AMAs would be a little hostile ( DKs and Templars) but after discussion things will cool down.
And thanks to everyone for your continued feedback on, well, feedback. Haven't had a chance to post much, but we have been reading. ...it's ironic that's the reply when that's the exact thing being criticized
I'm happy with this.
And I'm happy that your suggesting it.
And I'm willing to set my animosity aside if we can expect regular, consistant communication on a class front.
If I could hug you through the screen, I would. I hope today forward is the day, we can start working -together- again, Devs and playerbase. I'm willing to own my mistakes if everyone else is, too.
Can I has hug to?
Hugs for ever oneTWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0
