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PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Templar
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Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It became independent. It completely mess GCD and hopefully it bug coz in debuff list it wasn't splitted on CC part and damage part, as it was when Total Dark was changed - it became 2 debuffs, one for CC, one for time bomb.
Maybe they didn't like that and how it impacts the debuff count on purges?
So I assume this means it will not apply it's DMG when the target breaks free?
Just trying to understand
Well, that how it suppose be. 1 debuff for CC, one for damage, so you cant purge one debuff and get rid from both CC and damage simultaneously.. Also it misleading coz than you will see effect of Core in your debuff list but it not CC part and you just don't know when to use Break Free coz bubble has slow rendering effect. It decreasing dps just too much.
Everything on gif: enemy can CC Break but it not proc bomb to explode immediately, timer will still go to 0 and then explode. Means you now cant apply Core on enemy and when he CC Break and proc explosion to immmediately after apply next Core for next time bomb. GCD now is not favour skill, but making it weaker.
I hope it is side bug of their attempt to fix other bugs with this skill coz if It intended change - well, Total Dark became once again completely superior morph... as it always was.Edited by Cinbri on October 18, 2017 3:13PM0 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It became independent. It completely mess GCD and hopefully it bug coz in debuff list it wasn't splitted on CC part and damage part, as it was when Total Dark was changed - it became 2 debuffs, one for CC, one for time bomb.
Maybe they didn't like that and how it impacts the debuff count on purges?
So I assume this means it will not apply it's DMG when the target breaks free?
Just trying to understand
Well, that how it suppose be. 1 debuff for CC, one for damage, so you cant purge one debuff and get rid from both CC and damage simultaneously.. Also it misleading coz than you will see effect of Core in your debuff list but it not CC part and you just don't know when to use Break Free coz bubble has slow rendering effect. It decreasing dps just too much.
Everything on gif: enemy can CC Break but it not proc bomb to explode immediately, timer will still go to 0 and then explode. Means you now cant apply Core on enemy and when he CC Break and proc explosion to immmediately after apply next Core for next time bomb. GCD now is not favour skill, but making it weaker.
I hope it is side bug of their attempt to fix other bugs with this skill coz if It intended change - well, Total Dark became once again completely superior morph... as it always was.
Ok I understand now!
That timer limitation is how it currently works on live, if I'm not mistaken. But I agree that it should apply the damage bomb instantly on break free, similar to how inevitable detonation gives it's DMG on purges. This would make the spell different from other delayed DMG abilities and justify the cc immunity afterwards.
I don't think this ability should deal it's dmg if the enemy purges; it has no cast time like inevitable detonation does and it would match curse's mechanics. But I agree the ability should have a debuff separation for the cc immunity/reflect and the time bomb since the two effects are completely different mechanics and effects.
And the time bomb still ignores block?Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual0 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It became independent. It completely mess GCD and hopefully it bug coz in debuff list it wasn't splitted on CC part and damage part, as it was when Total Dark was changed - it became 2 debuffs, one for CC, one for time bomb.
Maybe they didn't like that and how it impacts the debuff count on purges?
So I assume this means it will not apply it's DMG when the target breaks free?
Just trying to understand
Well, that how it suppose be. 1 debuff for CC, one for damage, so you cant purge one debuff and get rid from both CC and damage simultaneously.. Also it misleading coz than you will see effect of Core in your debuff list but it not CC part and you just don't know when to use Break Free coz bubble has slow rendering effect. It decreasing dps just too much.
Everything on gif: enemy can CC Break but it not proc bomb to explode immediately, timer will still go to 0 and then explode. Means you now cant apply Core on enemy and when he CC Break and proc explosion to immmediately after apply next Core for next time bomb. GCD now is not favour skill, but making it weaker.
I hope it is side bug of their attempt to fix other bugs with this skill coz if It intended change - well, Total Dark became once again completely superior morph... as it always was.
Ok I understand now!
That timer limitation is how it currently works on live, if I'm not mistaken. But I agree that it should apply the damage bomb instantly on break free, similar to how inevitable detonation gives it's DMG on purges. This would make the spell different from other delayed DMG abilities and justify the cc immunity afterwards.
I don't think this ability should deal it's dmg if the enemy purges; it has no cast time like inevitable detonation does and it would match curse's mechanics. But I agree the ability should have a debuff separation for the cc immunity/reflect and the time bomb since the two effects are completely different mechanics and effects.
And the time bomb still ignores block?
It should explode on purge coz right now this skill is already useless vs Templar, who can purge it. Especially since counters available to Templar are more than to others.
Yes, still ignore.1 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think they should add an entirely separate bomb for breaking free... Then if someone breaks free they get smacked twice
3 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
It became independent. It completely mess GCD and hopefully it bug coz in debuff list it wasn't splitted on CC part and damage part, as it was when Total Dark was changed - it became 2 debuffs, one for CC, one for time bomb.
Maybe they didn't like that and how it impacts the debuff count on purges?
So I assume this means it will not apply it's DMG when the target breaks free?
Just trying to understand
Well, that how it suppose be. 1 debuff for CC, one for damage, so you cant purge one debuff and get rid from both CC and damage simultaneously.. Also it misleading coz than you will see effect of Core in your debuff list but it not CC part and you just don't know when to use Break Free coz bubble has slow rendering effect. It decreasing dps just too much.
Everything on gif: enemy can CC Break but it not proc bomb to explode immediately, timer will still go to 0 and then explode. Means you now cant apply Core on enemy and when he CC Break and proc explosion to immmediately after apply next Core for next time bomb. GCD now is not favour skill, but making it weaker.
I hope it is side bug of their attempt to fix other bugs with this skill coz if It intended change - well, Total Dark became once again completely superior morph... as it always was.
Ok I understand now!
That timer limitation is how it currently works on live, if I'm not mistaken. But I agree that it should apply the damage bomb instantly on break free, similar to how inevitable detonation gives it's DMG on purges. This would make the spell different from other delayed DMG abilities and justify the cc immunity afterwards.
I don't think this ability should deal it's dmg if the enemy purges; it has no cast time like inevitable detonation does and it would match curse's mechanics. But I agree the ability should have a debuff separation for the cc immunity/reflect and the time bomb since the two effects are completely different mechanics and effects.
And the time bomb still ignores block?
It should explode on purge coz right now this skill is already useless vs Templar, who can purge it. Especially since counters available to Templar are more than to others.
Yes, still ignore.
With purge being expensive, I can see UC not needing to be unpurgable. I think having it as unblocked is more important.
If they return UC to be two separate debuffs, adding siphoner+purifying + a poison with 2 effects will be enough to stop the purge from hitting UC. They will need to decide to waste another 4k mag to purge UC or take the hit.
I agree that total dark, since it has no time bomb, should be unpurgable since it can be broken free easily. They still need to update it of course to help make it attractive due to the CC immunity limitation.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual1 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
It became independent. It completely mess GCD and hopefully it bug coz in debuff list it wasn't splitted on CC part and damage part, as it was when Total Dark was changed - it became 2 debuffs, one for CC, one for time bomb.
Maybe they didn't like that and how it impacts the debuff count on purges?
So I assume this means it will not apply it's DMG when the target breaks free?
Just trying to understand
Well, that how it suppose be. 1 debuff for CC, one for damage, so you cant purge one debuff and get rid from both CC and damage simultaneously.. Also it misleading coz than you will see effect of Core in your debuff list but it not CC part and you just don't know when to use Break Free coz bubble has slow rendering effect. It decreasing dps just too much.
Everything on gif: enemy can CC Break but it not proc bomb to explode immediately, timer will still go to 0 and then explode. Means you now cant apply Core on enemy and when he CC Break and proc explosion to immmediately after apply next Core for next time bomb. GCD now is not favour skill, but making it weaker.
I hope it is side bug of their attempt to fix other bugs with this skill coz if It intended change - well, Total Dark became once again completely superior morph... as it always was.
Ok I understand now!
That timer limitation is how it currently works on live, if I'm not mistaken. But I agree that it should apply the damage bomb instantly on break free, similar to how inevitable detonation gives it's DMG on purges. This would make the spell different from other delayed DMG abilities and justify the cc immunity afterwards.
I don't think this ability should deal it's dmg if the enemy purges; it has no cast time like inevitable detonation does and it would match curse's mechanics. But I agree the ability should have a debuff separation for the cc immunity/reflect and the time bomb since the two effects are completely different mechanics and effects.
And the time bomb still ignores block?
It should explode on purge coz right now this skill is already useless vs Templar, who can purge it. Especially since counters available to Templar are more than to others.
Yes, still ignore.
With purge being expensive, I can see UC not needing to be unpurgable. I think having it as unblocked is more important.
If they return UC to be two separate debuffs, adding siphoner+purifying + a poison with 2 effects will be enough to stop the purge from hitting UC. They will need to decide to waste another 4k mag to purge UC or take the hit.
I agree that total dark, since it has no time bomb, should be unpurgable since it can be broken free easily. They still need to update it of course to help make it attractive due to the CC immunity limitation.
Templar will suffer from siphoner least than other classes. Purifying cost is almost nothing, back in time when it was nerfed for 30% more cost it left almost unnoticable, not to mention just 14%.
But it all doesn't matter coz anyway Templar will use Cleansing Ritual simply coz it one of just 2 options available for defense, and he forced to spam it.. and for thus Core will be completely countered same as on live.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭FYI Templars:
Wrobel's Purifying Ritual nerf will add 518 magicka cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DK embers cost 1350 + Burning Breath cost 2700 = 4050 total magicka. To cleanse those two DoTs, which have already inflicted damage to you, it will cost you 4223.7 total magicka.
Please do not sit back idly when non-Templars grossly overstate this abilityEdited by Joy_Division on October 18, 2017 5:34PMMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.12 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »FYI Templars:
Wrobel's Purifying Ritual nerf will add 518 magicka cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DK embers cost 1350 + Burning Breath cost 2700 = 4050 total magicka. To cleanse those two DoTs, which have already inflicted damage to you, it will cost you 4223.7 total magicka.
Please do not sit back idly when non-Templars grossly overstate this ability
Well, add to this 14% cost and previous nerf of cost of Purifying Ritual. And as result our class Cleanse nerfed more than sorc Escape or dodge-roll with multiply cost or Alliance Purge.
But well, now when DK will say that templar can easily purge their dots, or stamina players and sorcs will say that their defense mechanics were heavily nerfed by increase cost per use - every Templar have 100% validation to laugh at face of such people.Edited by Cinbri on October 18, 2017 5:48PM3 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭And I got feedback of our templar problems from fellow templar:
So, people we should stop asking for templar nerfs here. Plz.Edited by Cinbri on October 18, 2017 9:27PM3 -
Cinbri✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Another tweak idea for Eclipse:
1) Increase the trigger cooldown from 750ms to 1 second.
2) Change triggered damage to a % of target's damage done.
3) Completely remove CC component and CC immunity.
Eclipse is NOT a CC and its design/mechanics should reflect this fact; CC-break should NOT be available as a counter for this ability.
Under this tweak, counterplay includes purge/cleanse, stacking mitigation, AND the option for your target to trigger the effect with a low damage ability such as a light attack before hitting you with a bigger attack (since the damage can occur only once per second).
This makes the skill behave more reliably for both the caster and the target.
The problem is that damage reflected at least of my tooltip almost equal to damage of Frags. so % should be really high. That's why Total Dark de facto heals you on enemies spammable attacks while in return you deal good damage to them. They should just make it scale from highest resource pool.
And tbh 1 sec cooldown is overkill.Edited by Cinbri on October 18, 2017 9:21PM0 -
dodgehopper_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »FYI Templars:
Wrobel's Purifying Ritual nerf will add 518 magicka cost!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DK embers cost 1350 + Burning Breath cost 2700 = 4050 total magicka. To cleanse those two DoTs, which have already inflicted damage to you, it will cost you 4223.7 total magicka.
Please do not sit back idly when non-Templars grossly overstate this ability
There is a reason that I consider my Templar character my 'Fisherman' class now. I talk, I type, but mostly I feel like I'm wasting my energy now. Warden is more fun. Sorcerer is more fun. DK is more fun. Nightblade is more fun. Templar is done. I can revisit it when its actually fun to play again. This is why I generally have 'alts' in a game such as this btw - You just can't trust devs to make a balanced game, and this is true with every game I've ever played sadly.US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
<And plenty more>4 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭Twenty-three pages of discussion -- virtually ignored for a month.
Just disable comments in the PTS section of the forums, since the discussion within is evidently worthless unless it causes enough controversy (such as the MIATs add-on complaints, just for example).Edited by FlamingBeard on October 20, 2017 10:33PM1 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »Twenty-three pages of discussion -- virtually ignored for a month.
Just disable comments in the PTS section of the forums, since the discussion within is evidently worthless unless it causes enough controversy (such as the MIATs add-on complaints, just for example).
Sadly this is neither new nor suprising. They added dev comments to the patch notes a while back, but those usually just show How out of touch they are with whats going on in there game, wheter its skill,passives or just overall gameplay.
Just real the dev comments on eclipse, i dare you.
On the other hand, the constructive feedback to whine ratio has never been great in these threads. I bet most of whats posted here gets written off as general whining and thus gets ignored.
A big props for ppl like Giliam with his informative and constructive vids, and Cinbri providing the occasional gifs.
I may not always agree with their opinions,but i appreciate the general constructive nature of their feedback.
Just my 2 cents.Edited by Firstmep on October 21, 2017 12:55AM3 -
FlamingBeard✭✭✭✭✭FlamingBeard wrote: »Twenty-three pages of discussion -- virtually ignored for a month.
Just disable comments in the PTS section of the forums, since the discussion within is evidently worthless unless it causes enough controversy (such as the MIATs add-on complaints, just for example).
Sadly this is neither new nor suprising. They added dev comments to the patch notes a while back, but those usually just show How out of touch they are with whats going on in there game, wheter its skill,passives or just overall gameplay.
Just real the dev comments on eclipse, i dare you.
On the other hand, the constructive feedback to whine ratio has never been great in these threads. I bet most of whats posted here gets written off as general whining and thus gets ignored.
A big props for ppl like Giliam with his informative and constructive vids, and Cinbri providing the occasional gifs.
I may not always agree with their opinions,but i appreciate the general constructive nature of their feedback.
Just my 2 cents.
There have been numerous users similar to Cinbri who have given solely constructive feedback such as Empower being virtually useless on Solar Barrage, Healing Ritual and its morphs being an unusable skill in their current forms, damage percentage scaling and poor sustain hindering the damage of Puncturing Sweep and Radiant Oppression in PvE tremendously, and Total Dark/Unstable Core being effectively useless in nearly all gameplay and much too expensive for what little effect it manages to accomplish in combat.
All of these things are noted and agreed upon in this thread and yet there has been no addressing of these issues during this entire PTS cycle, whether through direct communication or patch notes.
This game is doomed to continue losing its appeal if its developers keep it going on the path it currently follows. Most of the well-known streamers have already gone after dealing with the cycle of ignorance, and others will soon take the hint as well.Edited by FlamingBeard on October 21, 2017 1:58PM4 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hey it’s me again ZOS just your friendly neighborhood stamplar, just wanna reiterate(already stated this before on this thread and a separate thread I created) how we are absolutely fed up with being cross-fire nerfed by unneeded magplar nerfs. Even though I’m certain you won’t read this, please understand this is the 3rd time this year we stamplars are receiving the short end of the stick with balance changes (major mending, repentance, now purify) because of your nerfs intended for magplars/healers. Rather then kick us in the groin with repetitive cross-fire nerfs why not nerf POTL, an ability that is well deserving of a nerf as aforementioned overperforms, and throw us a bone like an ACTUAL RELIABLE way of getting stamina back, since we legitimately don’t have one since you nerfed being able to repent EG (then the very next patch reduced stam back from repented bodies and made stamplars compete for repents, all because of healer balancing). Like seriously, repent is already a subpar ability, was it really deserving of back to back nerfs? ZOS...... I am so tired of being one of the only voices for stamplar because our class is virtually extinct, so just please please please give me reason to continue playing this game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel8 -
Sacredx✭✭✭Hey it’s me again ZOS just your friendly neighborhood stamplar, just wanna reiterate(already stated this before on this thread and a separate thread I created) how we are absolutely fed up with being cross-fire nerfed by unneeded magplar nerfs. Even though I’m certain you won’t read this, please understand this is the 3rd time this year we stamplars are receiving the short end of the stick with balance changes (major mending, repentance, now purify) because of your nerfs intended for magplars/healers. Rather then kick us in the groin with repetitive cross-fire nerfs why not nerf POTL, an ability that is well deserving of a nerf as aforementioned overperforms, and throw us a bone like an ACTUAL RELIABLE way of getting stamina back, since we legitimately don’t have one since you nerfed being able to repent EG (then the very next patch reduced stam back from repented bodies and made stamplars compete for repents, all because of healer balancing). Like seriously, repent is already a subpar ability, was it really deserving of back to back nerfs? ZOS...... I am so tired of being one of the only voices for stamplar because our class is virtually extinct, so just please please please give me reason to continue playing this game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel
you can try to voice your concerns but at the end of the day there are far more effective options available to you. i recommend changing classes. I was a full templar for a year, the nerfs came in, warden class came in. I realised that templar just doesn't cut it any more and changed class. now running a very strong warden build and haven't looked back. the game gets regular updates and changes that affect balance. how you choose to deal with that is up to you. keep an open mind and try to adapt to your surroundings. the devs will do what they need to on their end to make things work, and i'm not just talking about balance, there is a lot more that that involved. improvise, adapt and overcome.
Edit: thought I might add direct quote from the devs which pretty much says the same thing in different words:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »it's almost impossible to make a change that every player will agree with. Our job is to make changes that are best for the overall game. It may not always be popular with everyone, such as nerfing a specific ability, but we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).Edited by Sacredx on October 22, 2017 6:28AMPC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Hey it’s me again ZOS just your friendly neighborhood stamplar, just wanna reiterate(already stated this before on this thread and a separate thread I created) how we are absolutely fed up with being cross-fire nerfed by unneeded magplar nerfs. Even though I’m certain you won’t read this, please understand this is the 3rd time this year we stamplars are receiving the short end of the stick with balance changes (major mending, repentance, now purify) because of your nerfs intended for magplars/healers. Rather then kick us in the groin with repetitive cross-fire nerfs why not nerf POTL, an ability that is well deserving of a nerf as aforementioned overperforms, and throw us a bone like an ACTUAL RELIABLE way of getting stamina back, since we legitimately don’t have one since you nerfed being able to repent EG (then the very next patch reduced stam back from repented bodies and made stamplars compete for repents, all because of healer balancing). Like seriously, repent is already a subpar ability, was it really deserving of back to back nerfs? ZOS...... I am so tired of being one of the only voices for stamplar because our class is virtually extinct, so just please please please give me reason to continue playing this game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel
you can try to voice your concerns but at the end of the day there are far more effective options available to you. i recommend changing classes. I was a full templar for a year, the nerfs came in, warden class came in. I realised that templar just doesn't cut it any more and changed class. now running a very strong warden build and haven't looked back. the game gets regular updates and changes that affect balance. how you choose to deal with that is up to you. keep an open mind and try to adapt to your surroundings. the devs will do what they need to on their end to make things work, and i'm not just talking about balance, there is a lot more that that involved. improvise, adapt and overcome.
Edit: thought I might add direct quote from the devs which pretty much says the same thing in different words:ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »it's almost impossible to make a change that every player will agree with. Our job is to make changes that are best for the overall game. It may not always be popular with everyone, such as nerfing a specific ability, but we look at the big picture to see what needs to be done for the betterment of the game as a whole and how something will affect all aspects (PvE, PvP, dungeons, Trials, etc).
I don’t know you or your reasons, but I’m not a sellout. I started this game as a Templar and I will end it as a Templar. If that day happens to be soon, then so be it.7 -
Sacredx✭✭✭sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc1 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.
Frankly, you cannot build a viable stamplar using more then 3 class abilities. Having 12 slots available I already have trouble to fit in 1 class ability per bar (yeah, ok frontbar is jabs ... but back bar? ... its a tough call).
Its really frustating and demotivating to notice that everything (exept jabs) has been taken from templars and either distributed to all other classes (healing, ressource return abilities) or/and twisted, broken, changed to an unrecognizable form and cluncky play. This effects both, magplars as well as stamplars... but with stamplars, that always have been treated like the freaky stepchild ... imo... its worse.
... and I feel, selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.0 -
Destruent✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.
Frankly, you cannot build a viable stamplar using more then 3 class abilities. Having 12 slots available I already have trouble to fit in 1 class ability per bar (yeah, ok frontbar is jabs ... but back bar? ... its a tough call).
Its really frustating and demotivating to notice that everything (exept jabs) has been taken from templars and either distributed to all other classes (healing, ressource return abilities) or/and twisted, broken, changed to an unrecognizable form and cluncky play. This effects both, magplars as well as stamplars... but with stamplars, that always have been treated like the freaky stepchild ... imo... its worse.
... and I feel, selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.
Power of the light offers great burst for pvp and an unique debuff for pve. pve-wise Empowering sweep is a great ultimate for dps and support when using war machine...Edited by Destruent on October 22, 2017 1:20PMNoobplar0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Hey it’s me again ZOS just your friendly neighborhood stamplar, just wanna reiterate(already stated this before on this thread and a separate thread I created) how we are absolutely fed up with being cross-fire nerfed by unneeded magplar nerfs. Even though I’m certain you won’t read this, please understand this is the 3rd time this year we stamplars are receiving the short end of the stick with balance changes (major mending, repentance, now purify) because of your nerfs intended for magplars/healers. Rather then kick us in the groin with repetitive cross-fire nerfs why not nerf POTL, an ability that is well deserving of a nerf as aforementioned overperforms, and throw us a bone like an ACTUAL RELIABLE way of getting stamina back, since we legitimately don’t have one since you nerfed being able to repent EG (then the very next patch reduced stam back from repented bodies and made stamplars compete for repents, all because of healer balancing). Like seriously, repent is already a subpar ability, was it really deserving of back to back nerfs? ZOS...... I am so tired of being one of the only voices for stamplar because our class is virtually extinct, so just please please please give me reason to continue playing this game.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel
I’m with you on the repentance and stam resource management issue but POTL is about our only burst option. I’d be concerned they see this as “oh, POTL needs a nerf” and stops there0 -
Sacredx✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.
you don't need to buy anything, just make a new character, it's free. if you don't have the expansion there are other classes other than warden that are very strong too. changing class seems like the easy way out, but do you really want to spend your time playing something that you're not enjoying? the answer is pretty simple as i see it.PC NA PvP Oceanic
The Kelly Gang [TKG]
Highest kill streak: https://i.imgur.com/V6jJhoy.png
KB sample: https://i.imgur.com/n7TFyZr.png
TKG raid sample: https://youtube.com/watch?v=RkrsHg3T7pc0 -
Firstmep✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I agree with stamplar getting the short end of the stick on magplar directed nerfs. I play both in pvp and pve and imho the No 1 biggest cries for magplar nerfs have been about BoL, instead of making the templar class weaker in general they should just tweak that.
I mostly dont even bother fighting snb magplar these day, simply cuz of backbar blockheal spam. Give us better defensive options already on both specs and give BoL and Htd the nerf or adjustment it need.
Also make restoring light passives work on all heals, that would help stamplars without being detrimental to magplars.
I took a break from the game when Morrowind came out when i came back i immidiately noticed the loss of Major mending, on stamplars. I used to be able to take a fair amount of beating in medium armor, now i feel squishier than my light Armor wearing magplar.
In comparison my medium armor stam sorc has superior healing thanks to crit sure, for better mobility, and needs far less recovery, thanks to dark deal.
One place i think stamplars hold up pretty well atm is pve dps, they have nice cleave damage and can achive decent war machine uptimes with the right rotation.
Also to be said about stamplars they still pack a punch in pvp, if you can land cresent sweep it still hits really hard, POTL still can hit hard. I dont want stamplars to be great at everything mind you, i think pre morrowind they were in a great spot, back before Bone Pirate got nerfed. You had good damage, our mobility is on the low end compared to stamsorcs and nbs, but we had good healing/protection to make up for it.
The tradeoff for high dmg/survivability was that you had to build for more passive sustain than lets say a sorc, but after the blanket nerfs to resource management in morrowind and some templar specific nerfs made it that you either run heavy armor with something like ravagers and heavy attack your way to victory or play in medium and stack so much recovery that it starts eating into your damage too much.
With all that being said im stoked for the new patch, ill be looking at the new masters bow and asylum 2h, they might just work out really well for stamplars(well for most stamina in general). Ive even been eyeballing the buffed masters s/b for some off meta medium s/b gameplay, it could be very interesting.
TLDR. restoring light passives need to be reworked, they need to offer more for stamplars than they currently do, minor mending just isnt cutting it and the rest of the passives are almost all magplar oriented.
On magicka templar like i said, just nerf BoL/HtD already and give us better CC /defensive options so that most magplars wont feel pigeonholed into heavy s/b blockheal gameplay.
Radiant Ward could be a good place to start, like making it scale off of magicka, the current mechanic of the shield getting stronger can stay, it works well for melee magplar, and again risk vs reward your in the midst of multiple opponents you get rewarded with a bigger damage shield. A slight buff to sweeps self healing, a better eclipse than what it currenty is, and maybe change empowering sweep to mimic Cresents 66% damage buff in the frontal cone(maybe too much to ask for but one can only hope
).
On eclipse in general, rather than going with the current pts version how about changing it like this: if an enemy uses a direct damage attack/first tick of dot etc, they get knocked down for lets say 2 seconds, but could only happen once per eclipse cast and couldnt be casted on cc immune opponents. That would give eclipse the actual cc we have been asking for, it would give the ability the natural cooldown @ZOS_Wrobel wants, it would still give plenty of counterplay options via purge/cleanse and simply not attacking while eclipse is active, It would fulfill its role as a defensive cc, punishing agressive players, while wed still have Javelin for offensive purposes. The actual stun on eclipse would also make it more appealing for stamplars.
The two morphs Total Dark could give a heal over time to the casting templar, while Unstable Core could keeps its high damage. With this i think everyone would be happy.
Any thoughts @ZOS_Wrobel ? Would really appreciate some kind of response(Its my birthday soon throw me a bone!)
1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree with stamplar getting the short end of the stick on magplar directed nerfs. I play both in pvp and pve and imho the No 1 biggest cries for magplar nerfs have been about BoL, instead of making the templar class weaker in general they should just tweak that.
I mostly dont even bother fighting snb magplar these day, simply cuz of backbar blockheal spam. Give us better defensive options already on both specs and give BoL and Htd the nerf or adjustment it need.
Also make restoring light passives work on all heals, that would help stamplars without being detrimental to magplars.
I took a break from the game when Morrowind came out when i came back i immidiately noticed the loss of Major mending, on stamplars. I used to be able to take a fair amount of beating in medium armor, now i feel squishier than my light Armor wearing magplar.
In comparison my medium armor stam sorc has superior healing thanks to crit sure, for better mobility, and needs far less recovery, thanks to dark deal.
One place i think stamplars hold up pretty well atm is pve dps, they have nice cleave damage and can achive decent war machine uptimes with the right rotation.
Also to be said about stamplars they still pack a punch in pvp, if you can land cresent sweep it still hits really hard, POTL still can hit hard. I dont want stamplars to be great at everything mind you, i think pre morrowind they were in a great spot, back before Bone Pirate got nerfed. You had good damage, our mobility is on the low end compared to stamsorcs and nbs, but we had good healing/protection to make up for it.
The tradeoff for high dmg/survivability was that you had to build for more passive sustain than lets say a sorc, but after the blanket nerfs to resource management in morrowind and some templar specific nerfs made it that you either run heavy armor with something like ravagers and heavy attack your way to victory or play in medium and stack so much recovery that it starts eating into your damage too much.
With all that being said im stoked for the new patch, ill be looking at the new masters bow and asylum 2h, they might just work out really well for stamplars(well for most stamina in general). Ive even been eyeballing the buffed masters s/b for some off meta medium s/b gameplay, it could be very interesting.
TLDR. restoring light passives need to be reworked, they need to offer more for stamplars than they currently do, minor mending just isnt cutting it and the rest of the passives are almost all magplar oriented.
On magicka templar like i said, just nerf BoL/HtD already and give us better CC /defensive options so that most magplars wont feel pigeonholed into heavy s/b blockheal gameplay.
Radiant Ward could be a good place to start, like making it scale off of magicka, the current mechanic of the shield getting stronger can stay, it works well for melee magplar, and again risk vs reward your in the midst of multiple opponents you get rewarded with a bigger damage shield. A slight buff to sweeps self healing, a better eclipse than what it currenty is, and maybe change empowering sweep to mimic Cresents 66% damage buff in the frontal cone(maybe too much to ask for but one can only hope).
On eclipse in general, rather than going with the current pts version how about changing it like this: if an enemy uses a direct damage attack/first tick of dot etc, they get knocked down for lets say 2 seconds, but could only happen once per eclipse cast and couldnt be casted on cc immune opponents. That would give eclipse the actual cc we have been asking for, it would give the ability the natural cooldown @ZOS_Wrobel wants, it would still give plenty of counterplay options via purge/cleanse and simply not attacking while eclipse is active, It would fulfill its role as a defensive cc, punishing agressive players, while wed still have Javelin for offensive purposes. The actual stun on eclipse would also make it more appealing for stamplars.
The two morphs Total Dark could give a heal over time to the casting templar, while Unstable Core could keeps its high damage. With this i think everyone would be happy.
Any thoughts @ZOS_Wrobel ? Would really appreciate some kind of response(Its my birthday soon throw me a bone!)
A lot of words here but BOL does not need any more tweaks. The only thing that puts that skill to be the best heal is the passive that boosts healing under a certain percentage of health. I actually get a bigger heal already out of healing ward but it requires double cast at low health so it’s risky
I’ve been running Stamplar lately and I really feel it just needs repentance improvement for when corpses are already used by other Templars. The ritual nerf does hurt unnecessarily IMO. Could use something as compensation for that. Would also be nice if they made a morph of a heals stam version as well to keep some class flavor but if I had to just pick 1 thing; it’s stam resource management2 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.
Frankly, you cannot build a viable stamplar using more then 3 class abilities. Having 12 slots available I already have trouble to fit in 1 class ability per bar (yeah, ok frontbar is jabs ... but back bar? ... its a tough call).
Its really frustating and demotivating to notice that everything (exept jabs) has been taken from templars and either distributed to all other classes (healing, ressource return abilities) or/and twisted, broken, changed to an unrecognizable form and cluncky play. This effects both, magplars as well as stamplars... but with stamplars, that always have been treated like the freaky stepchild ... imo... its worse.
... and I feel, selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.
Power of the light offers great burst for pvp and an unique debuff for pve. pve-wise Empowering sweep is a great ultimate for dps and support when using war machine...
1. Templar was never intended to be a burst class, it was intended as a sustained damage class. Furthermore POTL is absolutely overperforming, no ability should do damage based off EVERYONES damage who hits you.
2. POTL is a small portion of stamplars pve dps (yes I also pve on stamplar I pull 38-39k) the reason it is good is the minor fracture debuff. A nerf to it would not decimate stamplars dps by any means.
And to whoever I was talking to about being a sellout (it to lazy to look for your name) if you don’t understand you don’t understand, it’s all good. But once again, I’m not a sellout.0 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Elsterchen wrote: »sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.
Frankly, you cannot build a viable stamplar using more then 3 class abilities. Having 12 slots available I already have trouble to fit in 1 class ability per bar (yeah, ok frontbar is jabs ... but back bar? ... its a tough call).
Its really frustating and demotivating to notice that everything (exept jabs) has been taken from templars and either distributed to all other classes (healing, ressource return abilities) or/and twisted, broken, changed to an unrecognizable form and cluncky play. This effects both, magplars as well as stamplars... but with stamplars, that always have been treated like the freaky stepchild ... imo... its worse.
... and I feel, selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.
Power of the light offers great burst for pvp and an unique debuff for pve. pve-wise Empowering sweep is a great ultimate for dps and support when using war machine...
1. Templar was never intended to be a burst class, it was intended as a sustained damage class. Furthermore POTL is absolutely overperforming, no ability should do damage based off EVERYONES damage who hits you.
2. POTL is a small portion of stamplars pve dps (yes I also pve on stamplar I pull 38-39k) the reason it is good is the minor fracture debuff. A nerf to it would not decimate stamplars dps by any means.
And to whoever I was talking to about being a sellout (it to lazy to look for your name) if you don’t understand you don’t understand, it’s all good. But once again, I’m not a sellout.
The templar Purifying Light skill is intended to buff everyone's damage. It's a very common fantasy/RPG type skill that strives to incorporate teamwork, support builds, and deliver damage in some means other than press button and huge damage occurs. It's the perfect spell for a healer to use.
Yes, 1vXers aren't going to like the ability but in this case too bad. I almost always side with the 1vXer perspective but at this point the PvErs who complain the game is getting ruined by PvP whining are correctMake Rush of Agony "Monsters only." People should not be consecutively crowd controlled in a PvP setting. Period.6 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭GallantGuardian wrote: »Awww so here is the nerf we've been expecting buff a couple of powers where people
Still
Won't use them
And nerf something we all use ...
Time to cancel sub
Yup...
Already cancelled mine too.1 -
NBrookus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »The templar Purifying Light skill is intended to buff everyone's damage. It's a very common fantasy/RPG type skill that strives to incorporate teamwork, support builds, and deliver damage in some means other than press button and huge damage occurs. It's the perfect spell for a healer to use.
Yes, 1vXers aren't going to like the ability but in this case too bad. I almost always side with the 1vXer perspective but at this point the PvErs who complain the game is getting ruined by PvP whining are correct
It doesn't seem unreasonable for it either to have a viable counter, or else work a little differently on players. If PoTL/Purifying Light didn't stack on players, it would still be viable for 1v1, battlegrounds and PvE while reducing it's zergiliciousness.0 -
Elsterchen✭✭✭✭✭
✭@DestruentPower of the light offers great burst for pvp and an unique debuff for pve. pve-wise Empowering sweep is a great ultimate for dps and support when using war machine...
Potl is nice, in PVE I like to use it. In PVP I noticed quite a number of ppl take this ability personal... since I do solo most of the time and I don't like to be chased halfway cross the map, I rather not use it there (unless ofc when defending bleakers and tired of javeline
) 0 -
templesus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Joy_Division wrote: »Elsterchen wrote: »sorry i don't follow. how does changing class make you a sellout? it's a game, you play it to have fun. you stop playing when you no longer have fun. simple as that. there are no expectations for people to keep their class, you can do anything you like within rules.
Frankly, you cannot build a viable stamplar using more then 3 class abilities. Having 12 slots available I already have trouble to fit in 1 class ability per bar (yeah, ok frontbar is jabs ... but back bar? ... its a tough call).
Its really frustating and demotivating to notice that everything (exept jabs) has been taken from templars and either distributed to all other classes (healing, ressource return abilities) or/and twisted, broken, changed to an unrecognizable form and cluncky play. This effects both, magplars as well as stamplars... but with stamplars, that always have been treated like the freaky stepchild ... imo... its worse.
... and I feel, selling a new class that gets alot of what stamplars have been asking for, is not an apropiate answer. I can relate if someone feels like a sellout, when buying a classchange token to convert to a buy-only class.
Power of the light offers great burst for pvp and an unique debuff for pve. pve-wise Empowering sweep is a great ultimate for dps and support when using war machine...
1. Templar was never intended to be a burst class, it was intended as a sustained damage class. Furthermore POTL is absolutely overperforming, no ability should do damage based off EVERYONES damage who hits you.
2. POTL is a small portion of stamplars pve dps (yes I also pve on stamplar I pull 38-39k) the reason it is good is the minor fracture debuff. A nerf to it would not decimate stamplars dps by any means.
And to whoever I was talking to about being a sellout (it to lazy to look for your name) if you don’t understand you don’t understand, it’s all good. But once again, I’m not a sellout.
The templar Purifying Light skill is intended to buff everyone's damage. It's a very common fantasy/RPG type skill that strives to incorporate teamwork, support builds, and deliver damage in some means other than press button and huge damage occurs. It's the perfect spell for a healer to use.
Yes, 1vXers aren't going to like the ability but in this case too bad. I almost always side with the 1vXer perspective but at this point the PvErs who complain the game is getting ruined by PvP whining are correct
A simple middle ground would be to simply make damage on other players only scale off your damage, or to make the cap more difficult to reach through various damage number calculations that would hurt pvp but leave pve virtually untouched.
They have the means to balance it, they just don’t. The skill needs adjustment.0
