ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHINGInterview With Miat Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

SirAndy · October 2017

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Interview With Miat

I don't think you understand the meaning of the word "interview" ...

Warraxx · October 2017

What's a miat?

Skoomah · October 2017

It's infuriating how people justify the use of these add ons.

deepseamk20b14_ESO · October 2017

you should all fight in real life then make out.

Riejael · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

I will post a reply in about 3 days time. I'll let it go for at least about 60-72hrs.

If I am not banned. It is not cheating. If I am, then well then you won't hear from me and you'll have your answer.

14 hours and I'm still here, a little over three quarters of the way to go. For those of you new to the thread I've made a bit of a wager, more specifically a test to end the debate once and for all. Details here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4570057/#Comment_4570057

To sum it up, I'll be posting on Wednesday (and maybe a couple times inbetween). If I'm capable of doing so, this addon is legit and not cheating. Period. As ZOS would have not condoned me posting a link to it otherwise.

Personally though. I'm going to make a further statement. No one thinks its cheating. No one reported the linked post. Reason for that is no one thinks its cheating. Their only aim is to use peer pressure to get people to stop using it.

No. Won't work. You're stuck with it until you quit or ZOS bans it. You no other alternative.

Anyway, has anyone actually reported the post I linked above that I made? If no one is, why continue the discussion? I've noticed everyone's avoided responding to me thus far as well. Interesting. I think you all are hoping I'll simply disappear and get bored and not come back. That's not the case. Your platform is in jeopardy more and more as we get closer to Wednesday.

Also if you all use ad hominem attacks on others and other content to lock the thread before that time, you cede the argument. The thread needs to be open with me unable to post by that time to prove your side correct. So it would be in everyone's interest to stay on their best behavior until then. Let it play out.

I'd even suggest avoiding the thread until then. Posting on Thursday to see if action has been taken (in case I forgot, probably won't). But we'll see.

Waseem · October 2017

I quit because of that ***
I try snipe, opponents gets a message on their screen asking them to roll dodge, *** ***

geonsocal · October 2017

basically it boils down to:

versus

ad_216164669-e1471857702756.jpg?w=748&h=497&crop=1

just how important is it to win???

Samadhi · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

I will post a reply in about 3 days time. I'll let it go for at least about 60-72hrs.

If I am not banned. It is not cheating. If I am, then well then you won't hear from me and you'll have your answer.

14 hours and I'm still here, a little over three quarters of the way to go. For those of you new to the thread I've made a bit of a wager, more specifically a test to end the debate once and for all. Details here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4570057/#Comment_4570057

To sum it up, I'll be posting on Wednesday (and maybe a couple times inbetween). If I'm capable of doing so, this addon is legit and not cheating. Period. As ZOS would have not condoned me posting a link to it otherwise.

Personally though. I'm going to make a further statement. No one thinks its cheating. No one reported the linked post. Reason for that is no one thinks its cheating. Their only aim is to use peer pressure to get people to stop using it.

No. Won't work. You're stuck with it until you quit or ZOS bans it. You no other alternative.

Anyway, has anyone actually reported the post I linked above that I made? If no one is, why continue the discussion? I've noticed everyone's avoided responding to me thus far as well. Interesting. I think you all are hoping I'll simply disappear and get bored and not come back. That's not the case. Your platform is in jeopardy more and more as we get closer to Wednesday.

Also if you all use ad hominem attacks on others and other content to lock the thread before that time, you cede the argument. The thread needs to be open with me unable to post by that time to prove your side correct. So it would be in everyone's interest to stay on their best behavior until then. Let it play out.

I'd even suggest avoiding the thread until then. Posting on Thursday to see if action has been taken (in case I forgot, probably won't). But we'll see.

Did not bother reporting your post as your proposal bears no weight in reality
and do not want to see you get banned for encouraging people to spam the report system, as it would prove nothing relative to your attempted 'point'
just because you put down an 'ultimatum' does not mean it, in any way, influences ZOS or represents their positions

The Terms of Service make your post a lost cause

Game Mods
...
ZeniMax may, but is not required under this Agreement to, validate, test, evaluate or pre-screen Game Mods.
...
EXCEPT AS PROHIBITED BY APPLICABLE LAW AND SUBJECT TO THE STATUTORY OBLIGATIONS (AS DEFINED IN SECTION 1), ZENIMAX RESERVES THE RIGHT (BUT HAS NO OBLIGATION EXCEPT AS REQUIRED BY LAW) TO OFFER, MAKE AVAILABLE, REVIEW, REMOVE, BLOCK, EDIT, MOVE OR DISABLE GAME MODS FOR ANY REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE, AND HAS NO LIABILITY OF ANY KIND WITH RESPECT TO GAME MODS, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION WHEN ZENIMAX DETERMINES THAT A GAME MOD VIOLATES THESE TERMS OF SERVICE, THE EDITOR EULA. THE DECISION TO REMOVE A GAME MOD AT ANY TIME IS IN ZENIMAX'S SOLE AND FINAL DISCRETION.

TO THE MAXIMUM EXTENT PERMITTED BY LAW, ZENIMAX DOES NOT ASSUME ANY RESPONSIBILITY OR LIABILITY FOR GAME MODS OR FOR THE REMOVAL OF ANY GAME MODS FOR ANY FAILURE TO OR DELAY IN REMOVING, ANY GAME MOD.

according to the Terms you agreed to,
ZOS could ban you at the 73 hour mark just for the lulz
or could completely ignore your post and modify the API to inhibit the addons functionality
your post in no way serves as the deadline you pretend it to

DDuke · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

I will post a reply in about 3 days time. I'll let it go for at least about 60-72hrs.

If I am not banned. It is not cheating. If I am, then well then you won't hear from me and you'll have your answer.

14 hours and I'm still here, a little over three quarters of the way to go. For those of you new to the thread I've made a bit of a wager, more specifically a test to end the debate once and for all. Details here:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/4570057/#Comment_4570057

To sum it up, I'll be posting on Wednesday (and maybe a couple times inbetween). If I'm capable of doing so, this addon is legit and not cheating. Period. As ZOS would have not condoned me posting a link to it otherwise.

Personally though. I'm going to make a further statement. No one thinks its cheating. No one reported the linked post. Reason for that is no one thinks its cheating. Their only aim is to use peer pressure to get people to stop using it.

No. Won't work. You're stuck with it until you quit or ZOS bans it. You no other alternative.

Anyway, has anyone actually reported the post I linked above that I made? If no one is, why continue the discussion? I've noticed everyone's avoided responding to me thus far as well. Interesting. I think you all are hoping I'll simply disappear and get bored and not come back. That's not the case. Your platform is in jeopardy more and more as we get closer to Wednesday.

Also if you all use ad hominem attacks on others and other content to lock the thread before that time, you cede the argument. The thread needs to be open with me unable to post by that time to prove your side correct. So it would be in everyone's interest to stay on their best behavior until then. Let it play out.

I'd even suggest avoiding the thread until then. Posting on Thursday to see if action has been taken (in case I forgot, probably won't). But we'll see.

What exactly are you trying to prove, that cheating is allowed in this game? That's painstakingly obvious already, why do you think these threads exist?

It became obvious long ago when ZOS let exploits such as double mundus & sharpened maces stay in the game months, if not years and punished no one abusing them.

For the billionth time, something being "allowed" doesn't make it any less cheating, it just means you get to do it without getting punished.

Samadhi · October 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

....

basically it boils down to:

...

If law enforcement does not witness your action or find sufficient evidence
you have not committed a crime
that is why murderers often go to great lengths to dispose of bodies

Riejael · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to prove, that cheating is allowed in this game? That's painstakingly obvious already, why do you think these threads exist?

It proves that using the API for an addon is not cheating. I'm not even hiding the fact.

It became obvious long ago when ZOS let exploits such as double mundus & sharpened maces stay in the game months, if not years and punished no one abusing them.

For the billionth time, something being "allowed" doesn't make it any less cheating, it just means you get to do it without getting punished.

This is a strawman argument. Stick to the addon in question.

None of what you stated has anything to do with this addon or others like it.

paulsimonps · October 2017

It might not be banable, but it really fricking should be. Your addon is cancer and you should feel bad.

DDuke · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

What exactly are you trying to prove, that cheating is allowed in this game? That's painstakingly obvious already, why do you think these threads exist?

It proves that using the API for an addon is not cheating. I'm not even hiding the fact.

It became obvious long ago when ZOS let exploits such as double mundus & sharpened maces stay in the game months, if not years and punished no one abusing them.

For the billionth time, something being "allowed" doesn't make it any less cheating, it just means you get to do it without getting punished.

This is a strawman argument. Stick to the addon in question.

None of what you stated has anything to do with this addon or others like it.

What? I'm comparing an act of exploiting a bug/flaw in the game's code to this particular instance of exploiting a bug/flaw in the game's API code. How is that a strawman argument in any way, shape or form?

Both are forms of exploiting, whether you see exploiting/cheating as separate entities is another matter - but in this case when the exploit comes in a form of 3rd party plugin it more than warrants the "cheat" tag.

Lexxypwns · October 2017

ZoS 100% CANNOT ban anyone for using Miat's because its allowed via the API.

I don't think the functionality should be in game, but the fact that it is means its blatantly not cheating. They have to disable the API functions that allow miat's to function not ban people for it.

DDuke · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ZoS 100% CANNOT ban anyone for using Miat's because its allowed via the API.

I don't think the functionality should be in game, but the fact that it is means its blatantly not cheating. They have to disable the API functions that allow miat's to function not ban people for it.

They didn't ban people for abusing double mundus or sharpened maces either. Were those players not "cheating", or were they simply "exploiting"?

Full disclosure: I abused all of those bugs/exploits, just like half the player base. The very same as with Miat's at the moment. Doesn't change what they are and whether they should be allowed.

Just so everyone gets it (and because I love analogies):

Let's assume there's a country where murder is allowed and nobody gets thrown in the jail for killing someone. Does that make murder something it isn't? No, it's still murder.

Nyladreas · October 2017

Samadhi wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

....

basically it boils down to:

...

If law enforcement does not witness your action or find sufficient evidence
you have not committed a crime
that is why murderers often go to great lengths to dispose of bodies

It's true though... but nice try.

Samadhi · October 2017

DoShazarr wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

....

basically it boils down to:

...

If law enforcement does not witness your action or find sufficient evidence
you have not committed a crime
that is why murderers often go to great lengths to dispose of bodies

It's true though... but nice try.

Agree it is true, that is why it was stated.

"but nice try"
What on earth were you attempting to interpret my statement as being intended to express beyond what was written
o.O

Taysa · October 2017

If only the people in this thread were remotely passionate about actual cheating....

Riejael · October 2017

When you equate using an addon to murder. Its a little hard to take that argument seriously.

DDuke · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

When you equate using an addon to murder. Its a little hard to take that argument seriously.

*whooosh*

Analogy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Analogy (disambiguation).
Analogy (from Greek ἀναλογία, analogia, "proportion"[1][2]) is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject - the analog or source, to another - the target, or a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.

Taysa · October 2017

DDuke wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

When you equate using an addon to murder. Its a little hard to take that argument seriously.

*whooosh*

Analogy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Analogy (disambiguation).
Analogy (from Greek ἀναλογία, analogia, "proportion"[1][2]) is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject - the analog or source, to another - the target, or a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.

Pretty sure everyone here understands what an analogy is. You just failed to deliver a good or reasonable one.

disintegr8 · October 2017

Lexxypwns wrote: »

ZoS 100% CANNOT ban anyone for using Miat's because its allowed via the API.

I don't think the functionality should be in game, but the fact that it is means its blatantly not cheating. They have to disable the API functions that allow miat's to function not ban people for it.

Can I also argue that I should not get booked for speeding because if the government allows a manufacturer to make a car that can do 200mph, than the government should let me do 200mph?

It is very sad that we have lost all sense of moral and ethical obligations these days. We are in a world where people feel they have a right to do whatever they like unless there is a law specifically saying they cannot do it, regardless of the end result.

Taysa · October 2017

Nah, what's sad is that people actually believe that an add on in a video game ranks just as high in importance as real life laws created to protect the safety and welfare of that area's citizens.

First world problems, guys.

DDuke · October 2017

Taysa wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Riejael wrote: »

When you equate using an addon to murder. Its a little hard to take that argument seriously.

*whooosh*

Analogy
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For other uses, see Analogy (disambiguation).
Analogy (from Greek ἀναλογία, analogia, "proportion"[1][2]) is a cognitive process of transferring information or meaning from a particular subject - the analog or source, to another - the target, or a linguistic expression corresponding to such a process.

Pretty sure everyone here understands what an analogy is. You just failed to deliver a good or reasonable one.

I guess I have to explain it again: something simply being "allowed" doesn't make things something they aren't.

Cheating is cheating, whether it's "allowed" or not.
Murder is murder, whether it's "allowed" or not.

Capiche?

Samadhi · October 2017

Riejael wrote: »

When you equate using an addon to murder. Its a little hard to take that argument seriously.

If my post were serious, it probably would not have ended with a Cookie Monster
if you were attempting to take it seriously, u r doin it wrong

Am not arguing anything, fully recognize that none of the posts in this thread matter
due to how ZOS has set up their Terms of Service with regards to the matter
it seems some people are taking it crazy serious as if they actually have something at stake in all this tho

Am very much Daoist in my view regarding rules and regulations

the only thing that laws do is create criminals
and the only thing rules do is create cheaters
without terms attempting to dictate action, individuals are free to simply be

Taysa · October 2017

So you work for ZoS now? You seem to be missing your fancy forum tag.

Malic · October 2017

This thread in of itself is an indictment of how inept and poor ZOS is at running its PVP portion of ESO.

PVE they nailed it, look at all the whales on the forums whining about elk mounts and costumes but pvp they screwed us and thats the rub. Remember at beta the promises about the competitive PVP etc so on, pay your sub we'll make this the best RvRvR game ever.

For a while it was, for a long while but ZOS, like most mmo companies are greedy. PVP was put to the side in favor of new platforms and more pve content. Enter clowns like miat, who isnt breaking the rules at all but is breaking the spirit of competition.

You know it, I know it, and zos knows it. We all know it, but chose to participate anyway. Had half you hero's withheld your money YEARS ago when cheats started popping up (remember the per mist form cheat? and more?) zos might have been incentivized to move on it. Most rationalized it away, ZOS built their PVE fan boy base and now youre all here expecting them to act.

Reality is calling, the bill is due and they dont accept credit cards.

Dorrino · October 2017

Omg!

*lurks hard*

geonsocal · October 2017

Samadhi wrote: »

Am very much Daoist in my view regarding rules and regulations

just spent a few minutes trying to nail down a definition of daoism...yikes, not so easy

...the only thing i really got was: living one with the world...which i actually thought was like having a gaia philosophy...so much to learn

this kinda sounds like anarchism though

:

Samadhi wrote: »

the only thing that laws do is create criminals
and the only thing rules do is create cheaters
without terms attempting to dictate action, individuals are free to simply be

there has to be rules in games...and, you would hope for those competitors involved to embrace some semblance of "fair" play...

some third party creation hindering an entire playstyle (and to some degree class) doesn't seem fair at all...

Shardan4968 · October 2017

Why won't we just start killing eachother? We don't argue about Miat and his damned addon anymore, now it's thread about analogies, bets.and acussing others of working for ZOS. All we need is Zenimax statement, and they failed at this point. Good job!

ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHING***Interview With Miat*** Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A

ARE U HAPPY NOW ZOS IS DOING SOMETHINGInterview With Miat Lets Talk Add Ons, Cheating and Q/A