SpiderCultist wrote: »

This actually pisses me off... I haven't played BGs as much as I would have liked to because of pre-made teams and now they add the CP-only restriction, it's like, SERIOUSLY?

Had I known these poorly thought changes to BGs, I would have NOT bought Morrowind regardless I adored the singleplayer Morrowind.

Not our fault you cant find a decent group thats wants to play with you.

Maybe earn some CP like the rest of us?

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

Appreciate the feedback and shedding some light on this, Gina. I hope that this does gain serious consideration. The answer seems obvious with how populated the CP campaigns are vs Non CP when it comes to cyrodill. I believe that cyrodill players seem to prefer large scale fighting in large groups, whereas, smallscale players want the most challenge and competitiveness. Not to be repetitive, but the non-CP format offers the most competitive platform and in a 4v4v4 format that's what is needed to keep battlegrounds relevant. Adding CP in to battlegrounds will extremely complicate something that is an amazing feature currently. It doesn't take much research to find the unkillable builds that litter cyrodill currently, if 10 people can't kill these people, 4v4v1 won't stand much of a chance as well. It just doesn't make sense.

I figured the reason for a push for all or nothing with the cp change was a population issue, that makes sense. However, I believe the pvp population in itself is pretty stagnant and aside from adding battlegrounds to the base game, I don't think this is going to drive up the numbers much, if only temporarily, maybe.

Has there been any consideration in a skill based matching / ranking system? I think this coupled with potentially better rewards would make leaps and bounds difference to increase population and could even increase Non CP PvP interest across the board.

Thanks again for the feedback. @ZOS_GinaBruno

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

And the ONLY class that can run light armor well is mag sorc.

Period.

Guess you've never played magicka NB like I have then. You are very misinformed.

All magika classes can excel in light armor

Ya in duels. If more than 2 people ( decent players ) approach you and your in light armor? Ya your done sorry. You might be satisfied with light armor and thats fine. But elitist like myself want to be in bis gear or somewhat bis

Well, math tells you that light armor gives both superior and harder to replace bonuses than heavy on any class that also needs to secure kills. Furthermore, light armor has by far the best selection of unique sets in the game and it's not close. Frankly, if you or your friends need heavy to play magika then not only are you not BiS, you're also probably trash cans.

The damage light armor provides is greater than any magika based damage set in the game gives you btw

Most likely you tried to run light with no utility and got packed up real quick like then ran back to heavy without realizing you're gimping yourself because you refuse to l2p.

BiS builds for all magika classes require 5 light

Hahahahaha "best in slot gear for all magicka gear requirees light armor"

Dumbest statement i ever heard. Unless you are strictly referring to pve which would he true.

But we are talking pvp here. Yes bomb builds require light armor for max damage.

But you are out of your mind just exposed yourself as a true scrub for thinking light armor is bis for every magicka character.

Sheesh

Math doesn't lie, compare your "meta" set ups against mine and see who has superior stats.

Light armor adds minimum 13.9%(more than that on NB/Templar plus that doesn't count elfborn or major force) to your damage while also allowing you to have perfect magika sustain with most classes(not DK) with no more than 3 lines of sustain.

This means you can run 1 defensive set and 2 offensive sets in light armor allowing you to be tanky enough to survive burst from multiple opponents and still drop HUGE damage.

It's just math and math says light>heavy>medium

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

To explain this change a bit, we've found (through data and feedback) that the majority of players tend to flock more toward CP-enabled campaigns, so we wanted to open that same selection for Battlegrounds and will be testing it out. We’ve considered adding an option between the two as some of you have suggested, but this would cause the population to become pretty divided and we want to make sure you can join Battlegrounds quickly. All that said, if we find this option simply isn’t popular or there’s a higher preference to have Battlegrounds be non-CP, we’ll simply change it back. Thanks for all the feedback so far!

Appreciate the feedback and shedding some light on this, Gina. I hope that this does gain serious consideration. The answer seems obvious with how populated the CP campaigns are vs Non CP when it comes to cyrodill. I believe that cyrodill players seem to prefer large scale fighting in large groups, whereas, smallscale players want the most challenge and competitiveness. Not to be repetitive, but the non-CP format offers the most competitive platform and in a 4v4v4 format that's what is needed to keep battlegrounds relevant. Adding CP in to battlegrounds will extremely complicate something that is an amazing feature currently. It doesn't take much research to find the unkillable builds that litter cyrodill currently, if 10 people can't kill these people, 4v4v1 won't stand much of a chance as well. It just doesn't make sense.

I figured the reason for a push for all or nothing with the cp change was a population issue, that makes sense. However, I believe the pvp population in itself is pretty stagnant and aside from adding battlegrounds to the base game, I don't think this is going to drive up the numbers much, if only temporarily, maybe.

Has there been any consideration in a skill based matching / ranking system? I think this coupled with potentially better rewards would make leaps and bounds difference to increase population and could even increase Non CP PvP interest across the board.

Thanks again for the feedback. @ZOS_GinaBruno

brandonv516 wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

And the ONLY class that can run light armor well is mag sorc.

Period.

Guess you've never played magicka NB like I have then. You are very misinformed.

All magika classes can excel in light armor

Ya in duels. If more than 2 people ( decent players ) approach you and your in light armor? Ya your done sorry. You might be satisfied with light armor and thats fine. But elitist like myself want to be in bis gear or somewhat bis

Well, math tells you that light armor gives both superior and harder to replace bonuses than heavy on any class that also needs to secure kills. Furthermore, light armor has by far the best selection of unique sets in the game and it's not close. Frankly, if you or your friends need heavy to play magika then not only are you not BiS, you're also probably trash cans.

The damage light armor provides is greater than any magika based damage set in the game gives you btw

Most likely you tried to run light with no utility and got packed up real quick like then ran back to heavy without realizing you're gimping yourself because you refuse to l2p.

BiS builds for all magika classes require 5 light

Hahahahaha "best in slot gear for all magicka gear requirees light armor"

Dumbest statement i ever heard. Unless you are strictly referring to pve which would he true.

But we are talking pvp here. Yes bomb builds require light armor for max damage.

But you are out of your mind just exposed yourself as a true scrub for thinking light armor is bis for every magicka character.

Sheesh

Math doesn't lie, compare your "meta" set ups against mine and see who has superior stats.

Light armor adds minimum 13.9%(more than that on NB/Templar plus that doesn't count elfborn or major force) to your damage while also allowing you to have perfect magika sustain with most classes(not DK) with no more than 3 lines of sustain.

This means you can run 1 defensive set and 2 offensive sets in light armor allowing you to be tanky enough to survive burst from multiple opponents and still drop HUGE damage.

It's just math and math says light>heavy>medium

Oh God must i have to tell these newbies.. doing higher damage doesnt mean the build is meta lmao.

Bis for damage and BIS for overall pvp sustain/damage is completely different. you outa your mind thinking light is good to survive 1vx. Ya both light and heavy you can get work done.

But you will have better odds to 1vx in heavy armor.

I run 5 soulshine body ( heavy impen )
5 desert rose jewelry SNB/DW
any monster set is good i like malubeth just adds a few more cancer cells to the build xD

I promise you this set up can do more you can take on 4-5 guys that actually decent at the game i have some nice 1vx clips and its crazy how unkillable you are in small combat like 1v1.

Again man light armor is bis for pve because pve dps role just has to focus on damage.

Im sorry this is no contest those with experience know heavy armor has been meta for long time now dont know where you been..

bubbygink wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

So let me get that GT and I'll bust your ass magplar vs magplar, the class you play, in light, and you'll see that heavy isn't enough to protect you from even 1 competent opponent much less several. Mechanics keep you alive not an armor weight and magplar is drastically better in light than heavy. You'll have way more damage and healing In light because you get to run a damage set + a damage monster + a defensive set. Then you use intelligent play to stay alive between setting up bursts.

Also, the fact you think DW offense bar is meta on magplar is downright laughable, you're not a meta player and you're not running close to BiS. That build isn't even good, are you kidding me? HMU if you need a good magplar build.

You don't have enough damage to fill Purifying Light up to a dangerous level by yourself, you're only killing potatoes with that set up.

Pretty sure the dude is just making stuff up to troll. I got the feeling he doesn't actually even play on XBox NA. Probably on PC EU or something and just trying to stir the pot. He won't give any of us a gamertag. There is no way he'd actually duel any of us even if he actually was on XBox NA. And we certainly aren't going to see any videos or screenshots of his supposedly amazing BG and 1vXing abilities. He won't even mention the players he supposedly typically plays with which he says are some of the best players in the game.

If he is for real, then his build is exactly what I'd expect a typical zergling build to be. Most likely just stands in the back of zergs hitting every enemy that gets low with a jesus beam and then bragging about how hard he hits. It is no wonder he gets destroyed in BGs. Again, he is likely just trolling but the reality is that tons of players just like that do exist. And it is a shame that ZOS is listening to players like that over the ones who are actually passionate about BGs and want them to remain fun and competitive. Crossing my fingers that the new patch notes today revert the change.

He's full on PUG, no guild group is letting their magplar run that trash and pull down the rest of the raid

Kartalin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

So let me get that GT and I'll bust your ass magplar vs magplar, the class you play, in light, and you'll see that heavy isn't enough to protect you from even 1 competent opponent much less several. Mechanics keep you alive not an armor weight and magplar is drastically better in light than heavy. You'll have way more damage and healing In light because you get to run a damage set + a damage monster + a defensive set. Then you use intelligent play to stay alive between setting up bursts.

Also, the fact you think DW offense bar is meta on magplar is downright laughable, you're not a meta player and you're not running close to BiS. That build isn't even good, are you kidding me? HMU if you need a good magplar build.

You don't have enough damage to fill Purifying Light up to a dangerous level by yourself, you're only killing potatoes with that set up.

Pretty sure the dude is just making stuff up to troll. I got the feeling he doesn't actually even play on XBox NA. Probably on PC EU or something and just trying to stir the pot. He won't give any of us a gamertag. There is no way he'd actually duel any of us even if he actually was on XBox NA. And we certainly aren't going to see any videos or screenshots of his supposedly amazing BG and 1vXing abilities. He won't even mention the players he supposedly typically plays with which he says are some of the best players in the game.

If he is for real, then his build is exactly what I'd expect a typical zergling build to be. Most likely just stands in the back of zergs hitting every enemy that gets low with a jesus beam and then bragging about how hard he hits. It is no wonder he gets destroyed in BGs. Again, he is likely just trolling but the reality is that tons of players just like that do exist. And it is a shame that ZOS is listening to players like that over the ones who are actually passionate about BGs and want them to remain fun and competitive. Crossing my fingers that the new patch notes today revert the change.

He's full on PUG, no guild group is letting their magplar run that trash and pull down the rest of the raid

For reals though. Soulshine, wow.

5-1-1 light with Transmutation, Riposte, Earthgore, 5th Transmutation on Sword and board back bar with Ritual to proc, lightning destro front bar. Used to run 5-1-1 heavy but feeling more comfortable with light recently.

The funny thing is, even with all utility sets you've got much better damage and sustain than his build while retaining enough tankiness that survival is easy if you're not a potatoe

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

bubbygink wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

So let me get that GT and I'll bust your ass magplar vs magplar, the class you play, in light, and you'll see that heavy isn't enough to protect you from even 1 competent opponent much less several. Mechanics keep you alive not an armor weight and magplar is drastically better in light than heavy. You'll have way more damage and healing In light because you get to run a damage set + a damage monster + a defensive set. Then you use intelligent play to stay alive between setting up bursts.

Also, the fact you think DW offense bar is meta on magplar is downright laughable, you're not a meta player and you're not running close to BiS. That build isn't even good, are you kidding me? HMU if you need a good magplar build.

You don't have enough damage to fill Purifying Light up to a dangerous level by yourself, you're only killing potatoes with that set up.

Pretty sure the dude is just making stuff up to troll. I got the feeling he doesn't actually even play on XBox NA. Probably on PC EU or something and just trying to stir the pot. He won't give any of us a gamertag. There is no way he'd actually duel any of us even if he actually was on XBox NA. And we certainly aren't going to see any videos or screenshots of his supposedly amazing BG and 1vXing abilities. He won't even mention the players he supposedly typically plays with which he says are some of the best players in the game.

If he is for real, then his build is exactly what I'd expect a typical zergling build to be. Most likely just stands in the back of zergs hitting every enemy that gets low with a jesus beam and then bragging about how hard he hits. It is no wonder he gets destroyed in BGs. Again, he is likely just trolling but the reality is that tons of players just like that do exist. And it is a shame that ZOS is listening to players like that over the ones who are actually passionate about BGs and want them to remain fun and competitive. Crossing my fingers that the new patch notes today revert the change.

He's full on PUG, no guild group is letting their magplar run that trash and pull down the rest of the raid

For reals though. Soulshine, wow.

5-1-1 light with Transmutation, Riposte, Earthgore, 5th Transmutation on Sword and board back bar with Ritual to proc, lightning destro front bar. Used to run 5-1-1 heavy but feeling more comfortable with light recently.

Are you slow or just cant read? I said pvp. You must be a fool or never do raids at all to think leaderboard guilds take in magplars for dps AHAHAHAHAAHA. Scrubs you must never do end game content stick to spindleclutch and fungal grotto LOL

Soulshrine in pvp is amazing it buffs basically all magplar abilities besides vampires bane and shards but you dont use shards in pvp. Also buffs soul assault like craazy. anyway maybe you do since you thought i was running heavy armor in pve.

Ya sorry to inform you again you will never be better than the average player running light armor magplar in pvp.

I would destroy you in seconds..

Soul shine doesn't buff PL max damage or destro weaves and doesn't buff BoL or ritual heals. You're welcome to drop the GT.

Also, riposte/trans earthgore is more tanky than your setup, more damage, better sustain, and better group support

Like i said for solo pvp desert rose soulshrine and a monster set is 5x better than what you just said.
I run all impen with 10 points in critical resist and im fine dont need trans. Thats for zergs that you said you dont run hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm explains this scrub talk talkin about light armor is better for 1vx lmao im done here

SpiderCultist wrote: »

@Ihatenightblades It's just wow how moronic your posts are. I mean it for real, don't embarrass yourself no more. Follow my advice man.

Funny i have never even seen you post a thread where people even clicked

Feanor wrote: »

Sometimes you wish people just exchanged pics of their favourite parts instead of posting here for pages on end. And no, not meaning @Lexxypwns .

You sure? I'll send pics.

Im so glad you posted this and calmed me down before I had to get all mathy on him.

Kartalin wrote: »

Alliance Rank 43, sorry.

@Lexxypwns Mainly it's for group support, I have a different setup for dps: 5 Rattlecage, 5 Lich, 2 Valkyn Skoria, lightning destro front bar with 5th Lich piece on sword and board back bar, can go 5-1-1 light or heavy depending on opponent and group heals.

Group support? you do know none of those sets buff group whatsoever right?

SpiderCultist wrote: »

@Ihatenightblades It's just wow how moronic your posts are. I mean it for real, don't embarrass yourself no more. Follow my advice man.

Look its ok we get it you are upset because players like you cant adapt to big changes. CP bg is what all the good players wanted only low cp newbs like yourself struggle in cp

And yes i know you like entering dead PvP campaigns and fighting as much noobs as possible ( since non cp pvp is ALLLLL NOOBS ) so you can still do that and have fun in that campaign with 50 people lmao.

The good players like myself wont be complaining we will be too busy enjoying cp bg

Have fun in your dead non cp campaign lol.

.

del9 wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

im excited to see what cp bgs will look like. could be good could be bad. too early to tell. I enjoy the diversity in sets that having cp allows. for non cp I have 1 or two sets that I can run in order to have the correct max stam/stam recovery or enough weapon damage. with cp enabled I am able to run any one of my 10 or so different setups I have.

For me, and I think most of the active BG community, gear diversity is not a concern. I come to the BG format because it rewards skillful gameplay + tactics and provides some measure of balance. Those same reasons are why I strongly prefer non-cp. I want to see BG thrive and the population grow, but what "gear diversity" really means is room for cancer: adding imbalance and destroying the pace of BGs

I mean, he's also acting like the average build loses a lot of regen from losing CP. If you're applying your green stars properly you're probably missing less than 200 regen in no-CP. You can already get away with wearing basically whatever gear you want as long as you take the time to balance your build. I cannot think of a single set that only has use in CP, whereas I can think of several sets that have their value significantly diminished by the CP system. I'm actually willing to outright contradict the statement that adding CP will increase gear or build diversity because it simply does not. The problem with CP isn't the sustain they offer, infinite sustain is easy in BGs as well. The problem is the other things they offer: increasing burst damage, increasing survivability, reducing block cost, etc. Even something as simple as the riposte mage passive being able to proc adrenaline rush on redguards allowing you to regain stam from "melee attacks" without needing to use that stam to go offensive. There's tons of little "neat" effects like this that the CP system has brought in which theorycrafters use to tweak builds to the absolute maximum.

I don't think anyone is worried about builds suddenly having 200 extra regen. The issue is the increased burst damage and all the passives that contribute to troll tanking. These issues go hand in hand, as TTK goes down it leads to an increased value in building tanky for basically all builds, but it also encourages casual, bad, inexperienced(pick one) to go full tank because then they can survive and have fun while also contributing to the team.

We already see this in BGs, CPs will simply exacerbate this because at present if you're not interested in securing kills the CP system will give you far more additional survivability that wouldn't be present in no-CP than it will give you additional damage on a damage oriented build. The reason for this is that EVERY color tree has a star that will increase your survivability while only the blue tree offers direct increases to damage. While Blessed and Quicky recovery do scale poorly, if you don't need the damage the Mage tree offers you can easily justify stacking heavily into blessed whereas damage oriented builds should avoid a serious investment in that star.

We would need broad, sweeping adjustments to the CP system to not incentivize tanks. This becomes even more true when you enter into a controlled, contained, environment where you are pushed into objective based play.

Its really that simple @ZOS_GinaBruno I don't know how much more obviously I can explain it, adding a CP system that already favors mitigation over damage options into a system where there is objective based play and a limited number of opponents allows you to make builds that will literally be unkillable. It seems rather plain that during objective based play where you need to secure kills to secure an objective that having these sorts of builds is not desirable gameplay.