Cp being added to BG !! ( as of now )

CatchMeTrolling

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Ihatenightblades

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Sustain isnt my problem i just like to have red and blue true for damage and resistance. The red area truly makes the biggest impact on Cp i have noticed

BroanBeast1215

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

Baconlad

I agree with joy. Id rather have CP system completely obliterated. End game level cap set at 50. I also want my resources and crit from CP given back. Other than that the system could go away. I will say though, one nice thing about CP is it allows me to build in things i may be missing from gear or mundus choices...which is nice...

I agree with the BG changes though. Good to have those resources back....what zeni could do is make the CP system more like skyrim. Give us a fraction of points, that give bonuses to weapon chosen, gear chosen. That would be neat...but of course it couldnt be crazy, like 5% extra crit for DW daggers. 5% damage to destro stave damage. 1k extra spell pen with 5 light. Everyone in light armor would use the exact same trees and get the same benefits. But would be improved for more CP

Crom_CCCXVI

I am still waiting for a valid explanation of how these games will work when a no death tank that can't be killed by a zerg picks up the chaos ball with a couple healers? If 15 guys can't kill him how are 4 going to ...?

I'll run that tank first game and every game until these forums are so full of hate mail you address the issue

Crom_CCCXVI

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

People don't realize that in No CP you actually can kill people, your not planning for a 15 minute fight. You don't need 3000 regen in No CP, you can get by with 1200 and a potion and an actual damage rotation instead of a 3 sheild rotation, just kill the person... (the way the game used to be)

Ihatenightblades

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I am still waiting for a valid explanation of how these games will work when a no death tank that can't be killed by a zerg picks up the chaos ball with a couple healers? If 15 guys can't kill him how are 4 going to ...?

I'll run that tank first game and every game until these forums are so full of hate mail you address the issue

Dude people like you who say a group of 3 healers and a tank would dominate are so clueless about the game you dont deserve to be a insightful critique.

That group role set up would come in last place everytime in all bg gamemodes. For one you target the healers first Which are allllllways easy to kill especially if that group doesnt have people dishing out some dps to keep opponents on heels.

Imo the best group setup is 3 dps and 1 tank/healer.

Preferably a warden

Lexxypwns

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

Actually, it's just math. An optimal pvp CP setup has no more than 10% main stat regen in the green tree, because the regen stars scale extremely poorly, you have to nearly double your investment to go from 10% to 14%. This means on a build with 1800 regen you lose ~180 in a noCP environment. This number gets even smaller on builds that use non-regen resource return: Desert Rose, Constitution, Siphoning/leeching, etc.

It's only worth stacking those regen based stars if you're running a crazy high regen build, something like lich in a high elf, but even then it's overkill sustain and not necessary

BroanBeast1215

Lexxypwns wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

Actually, it's just math. An optimal pvp CP setup has no more than 10% main stat regen in the green tree, because the regen stars scale extremely poorly, you have to nearly double your investment to go from 10% to 14%. This means on a build with 1800 regen you lose ~180 in a noCP environment. This number gets even smaller on builds that use non-regen resource return: Desert Rose, Constitution, Siphoning/leeching, etc.

It's only worth stacking those regen based stars if you're running a crazy high regen build, something like lich in a high elf, but even then it's overkill sustain and not necessary

Understand we are coming at the discussion on two different sides of the coin, I don't play magicka. And I suppose my original post wasn't precise enough; it was hastily wrote while at work(lol) I was also talking about the lose to max stats that comes with no cp; most of the builds I have on my stamplar(I've tested nearly every combo) I cant run in no cp because it leaves me with an undesirable amount of max stam depending on the build. it boils down to my personal frustrations I guess but honestly the amount of unkillable tanks ive seen in cyro can be counted on one hand but I can see how it could be a problem

Kartalin

You can generally get 30-32k or more of your primary stat in no CP, more for magsorcs in certain builds. It's true you lose a lot of your base stats in no CP but so does everyone else. This is part of what makes it more interesting, more of a challenge, and where you learn to play skillfully with more limited resources.

BroanBeast1215

Kartalin wrote: »

You can generally get 30-32k or more of your primary stat in no CP, more for magsorcs in certain builds. It's true you lose a lot of your base stats in no CP but so does everyone else. This is part of what makes it more interesting, more of a challenge, and where you learn to play skillfully with more limited resources.

honestly man that depends on what armor class/race/food you are wearing further restricting what sets you can run in order to reach the optimal threshold for your primary stat.

for instance: if you wanna a set that only drops healthy jewelry coupled with another set that only offers healthy trait, have fun playing around with ~25k max stam, while some classes can get away with that. stamplar isn't one of them imo

Lexxypwns

Ihatenightblades wrote: »

Crom_CCCXVI wrote: »

I am still waiting for a valid explanation of how these games will work when a no death tank that can't be killed by a zerg picks up the chaos ball with a couple healers? If 15 guys can't kill him how are 4 going to ...?

I'll run that tank first game and every game until these forums are so full of hate mail you address the issue

Dude people like you who say a group of 3 healers and a tank would dominate are so clueless about the game you dont deserve to be a insightful critique.

That group role set up would come in last place everytime in all bg gamemodes. For one you target the healers first Which are allllllways easy to kill especially if that group doesnt have people dishing out some dps to keep opponents on heels.

Imo the best group setup is 3 dps and 1 tank/healer.

Preferably a warden

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

Kartalin wrote: »

You can generally get 30-32k or more of your primary stat in no CP, more for magsorcs in certain builds. It's true you lose a lot of your base stats in no CP but so does everyone else. This is part of what makes it more interesting, more of a challenge, and where you learn to play skillfully with more limited resources.

honestly man that depends on what armor class/race/food you are wearing further restricting what sets you can run in order to reach the optimal threshold for your primary stat.

for instance: if you wanna a set that only drops healthy jewelry coupled with another set that only offers healthy trait, have fun playing around with ~25k max stam, while some classes can get away with that. stamplar isn't one of them imo

Or just run lava foot soup and recoup ~2k stam and increase your recovery ~100.

As I understand it stamplar benefit from max stat stacking for PotL burst only and it's made more efficient by use of a channeled spammable, thereby reducing the amount of light/heavy attacks which are influenced more strongly by weapon damage. However, the need for the huge potl burst isn't a present in no-CP because there's less blocking overall and less artificial tankiness. I agree that 25-27k is low, but 30 should be workable and possible to achieve

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

.

del9 wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

im excited to see what cp bgs will look like. could be good could be bad. too early to tell. I enjoy the diversity in sets that having cp allows. for non cp I have 1 or two sets that I can run in order to have the correct max stam/stam recovery or enough weapon damage. with cp enabled I am able to run any one of my 10 or so different setups I have.

For me, and I think most of the active BG community, gear diversity is not a concern. I come to the BG format because it rewards skillful gameplay + tactics and provides some measure of balance. Those same reasons are why I strongly prefer non-cp. I want to see BG thrive and the population grow, but what "gear diversity" really means is room for cancer: adding imbalance and destroying the pace of BGs

I mean, he's also acting like the average build loses a lot of regen from losing CP. If you're applying your green stars properly you're probably missing less than 200 regen in no-CP. You can already get away with wearing basically whatever gear you want as long as you take the time to balance your build. I cannot think of a single set that only has use in CP, whereas I can think of several sets that have their value significantly diminished by the CP system. I'm actually willing to outright contradict the statement that adding CP will increase gear or build diversity because it simply does not. The problem with CP isn't the sustain they offer, infinite sustain is easy in BGs as well. The problem is the other things they offer: increasing burst damage, increasing survivability, reducing block cost, etc. Even something as simple as the riposte mage passive being able to proc adrenaline rush on redguards allowing you to regain stam from "melee attacks" without needing to use that stam to go offensive. There's tons of little "neat" effects like this that the CP system has brought in which theorycrafters use to tweak builds to the absolute maximum.

I don't think anyone is worried about builds suddenly having 200 extra regen. The issue is the increased burst damage and all the passives that contribute to troll tanking. These issues go hand in hand, as TTK goes down it leads to an increased value in building tanky for basically all builds, but it also encourages casual, bad, inexperienced(pick one) to go full tank because then they can survive and have fun while also contributing to the team.

We already see this in BGs, CPs will simply exacerbate this because at present if you're not interested in securing kills the CP system will give you far more additional survivability that wouldn't be present in no-CP than it will give you additional damage on a damage oriented build. The reason for this is that EVERY color tree has a star that will increase your survivability while only the blue tree offers direct increases to damage. While Blessed and Quicky recovery do scale poorly, if you don't need the damage the Mage tree offers you can easily justify stacking heavily into blessed whereas damage oriented builds should avoid a serious investment in that star.

We would need broad, sweeping adjustments to the CP system to not incentivize tanks. This becomes even more true when you enter into a controlled, contained, environment where you are pushed into objective based play.

Its really that simple @ZOS_GinaBruno I don't know how much more obviously I can explain it, adding a CP system that already favors mitigation over damage options into a system where there is objective based play and a limited number of opponents allows you to make builds that will literally be unkillable. It seems rather plain that during objective based play where you need to secure kills to secure an objective that having these sorts of builds is not desirable gameplay.

QFT

Also, I really hope you didn’t write all that on a smartphone lol.

Emphasis on the “limited maximum number of opponents”

CatchMeTrolling

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

BroanBeast1215

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

CatchMeTrolling

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

...

HEBREWHAMMERRR

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

Thogard

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

How do you find out?

HEBREWHAMMERRR

Thogard wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

How do you find out?

What platform are you? I think it’s in your journal but also under xbox achievements for us.

Lexxypwns

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

Ikr? Trans/riposte/BS mageblade with all tri-glyphs in an argonian is ~30k magika and 2k base spell damage only but its deadly and can carry pugs in a BG

Urza1234

Alaztor91 wrote: »

ZOS should just remove CPs from every type of PvP imo, and then balance it accordingly. What's the point of pvping if there is no even ground? You already have advantage over other players with stuff like:

-Race
-Gear
-Consumables
-Addons
-CPs

How many crutches do people want?

None of those are advantages because they are available to all players. They are all choices, the more balanced choices in a game the more diversity, the more fun.

If you want a competitive game without choices go play Roshambo.

Urza1234

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

Because population problem in BGs wasn't caused by CP restriction. It's the game mode itself. A for fun only mode naturaly lose population over time.

What they need to do to keep players playing BGs is adding competition to them. Implementing a ranking system of some sort or changing current leaderboards to work just like trial ones (reflecting player performance and not time played).

There is some validity in this statement.

Thogard

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

How do you find out?

What platform are you? I think it’s in your journal but also under xbox achievements for us.

Even when you capped out all the achievements? I play a lot of BGs lol
Edit: I’m PC NA

BroanBeast1215

HEBREWHAMMERRR wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

BroanBeast1215 wrote: »

CatchMeTrolling wrote: »

I only lose 100 something regen in no cp so if people are worried about not sustaining or their regen I don't know what they're doing.

Lmao username to post correlation too strong

I was speaking on regen not max stats but it's all the same really because you're not the only one that loses max stat, everyone does. This is where actually managing resources comes into play rather than spamming like in cp pvp. And I play a class that has expensive skills too, so it comes down to the person.

Lul, if you think everyone on cp campaign just spams skills you really are trolling. my post wasn't about sustaining, my point was if you want to run two sets that leave you too low on max stats yer gonna get blown tf up.

Curious, how many BG matches do you have won, Broan? If I posted my stat sheet you’d assume I’m the worst player N/A. Spoiler, that isn’t the case.

Haha. too many too count, I have all the achievements besides the chaosball ones

EdmundTowers

ZOS didn't do anything about overperforming proc sets for over a year. Not until BGs came out and it was obvious how broken they were in BGs, then they finally nerfed them. A possible silver lining could be that they will take steps to balance the game once the issues with CP, outlined in this thread become obvious and are dominating BGs. One can hope, right?

If you all want no CP combat, you can comeback to Sotha Sil I guess.

Waffennacht

Pics? Someone said pics...

I'm pretty good looking... Want a pic? Just ask!

Lmfao (I'm not lying though!)

BTW here's a BG pic:



Oh yeah...

What's this thread about again?

Thogard

Waffennacht wrote: »

Pics? Someone said pics...

I'm pretty good looking... Want a pic? Just ask!

Lmfao (I'm not lying though!)

BTW here's a BG pic:



Oh yeah...

What's this thread about again?

Oh sweet. Are we posting brag photos? I want to play.



(Sorc OP - he has since been relegated to PvE duty and is somewhere in VMA right now lol)

Lexxypwns

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Pics? Someone said pics...

I'm pretty good looking... Want a pic? Just ask!

Lmfao (I'm not lying though!)

BTW here's a BG pic:



Oh yeah...

What's this thread about again?

Oh sweet. Are we posting brag photos? I want to play.



(Sorc OP - he has since been relegated to PvE duty and is somewhere in VMA right now lol)

Can't be a brag pic if your team lost broski

Thogard

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Pics? Someone said pics...

I'm pretty good looking... Want a pic? Just ask!

Lmfao (I'm not lying though!)

BTW here's a BG pic:



Oh yeah...

What's this thread about again?

Oh sweet. Are we posting brag photos? I want to play.



(Sorc OP - he has since been relegated to PvE duty and is somewhere in VMA right now lol)

Can't be a brag pic if your team lost broski

Oh hush lol. I’ll cherish that 27:0 for as long as I can because there’s no way I could pull it off on a Stam toon lol.

Waffennacht

@Thogard lol I ALMOST posted a real picture of myself and quickly had to change it to something I had on hand lol. Caught me!

Dude I wouldn't have a brag BG in the same forum as @RouDeR 's stats