Cheating We Can Stop It

Walks_With_Kagouti · October 2017

Why not take a break from giving us buggy dlc's or chapters and instead focus on a good amount of time, money, and resources on stopping cheating, fixing up the game, and any other problems... i get people would get mad that nothings new for the game ib the time frame but in all honesty half the time ZOS introduces something new majority of the time its complaints... so instead of changing stuff, why not put 100% of effort into fixing things. Like taking down the sites that put out cheating to the people. Removing bots, etc. I spend alot of money on this game becuase i love the game but if theres a chance to fix stuff it should be done and id rather my money go to fixing the game i love rather then sonething immeidately new and buggy on top of already buggy and laggy content festuring with cheaters and bots. The stuff can wait. Im not saying id like to wait for ever nor do i know a reasonable amount of time... but im patient. I had to wait years for ESO to come out when me and my friends would talk about ideas of such a game as kids. I personally can wait ahile for them to fix there game... could just be me but its my honest opinion on the matter. And yea, im not just speaking about cheating now becuase really this subject isnt about cheating alone. Its about the community trying to provide feedback to fix the game and ZOS doesnt act much on it (to my knowledge)... anyway... back to pvp...

CromulentForumID · October 2017

lordrichter wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I was going to take it one step further, the name in my scan window is actually a custom link which I should be able to post directly in a chat channel so anyone with the Bot Scanner can activate the link directly and automatically generate the same report...

Yeah, I saw that you did that. What you might want to do is come up with such a link that does not have the account name or character name in it. Naming and Shaming is going to get people in trouble.

Dredlord wrote: »

1mirg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Things would get done, that is for sure.

Meh, I don't expect much to be done if forum watchdogs were put in charge of policing the game. Mostly because they'd need to have more people policing the game than on the forums. Which sounds like something I don't see zos doing. Knowing them they'd prob just put like 4-5 people on police duty for the whole game and call it a day. Which wouldn't be enough.

If they wanted to get serious about it, I expect that they'd have to do something like this:
First they'd have to get several peps per zone because each map is like it's own separate part of the game. Along with several working for different regions and etc. Pretty much creating a huge network of active users on the game who are pretty much the police in the world. Making "zos" have a much more active presence in-game because we all know that you'd barely, if ever see a "zos" employee tag in chat anymore. (Which yes, they exist. I remember seeing them ingame during beta.). Then they'd need to have their own lil "area" to hang about in while reading reports ingame so they wouldn't be bugged while working. Blizzard for example uses a uninteresting island way out yonder. They'd also need to be given some easy of use commands and so on. There is more stuff but I'm getting lazy.

The point being is that implementing something like that will be alot of work and I honestly don't see @ZOS ever working that hard for something like that. Honestly, I would rather like to see them more active in-game and actually dealing out harsh punishment for cheaters/ exploiters on their own but over the years, I grown to just accept the fact that the developers don't wish to do that. All I do ingame now is pretty much just quest and clear maps and take part in events. I don't even touch the pvp part of the game anymore due to the rampant cheaters there working their way to getting emperorship and so on.

meh, whatever though. i honestly don't see the developers doing much, if anything about the cheaters/exploiters anyway and I don't see this thread making much of a difference over the hundreds of others saying pretty the same thing. The only way things will change is if the developers finally do something serious about it. Till then, all that's being done is just blowing hot air around.

Ha, ***. Give me 2 employees near minimum wage with no experience and I would eliminate 80% of the cheaters in less than 2 months.

There are a couple of areas in game that are known bot "hot spots." I bet on a forum thread we could identify the top 5 or 10 within a day. You could have a GM pop to each location every hour or so and see what's going on. You wouldn't need reports or player effort to do that.

StackonClown · October 2017

CromulentForumID wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Drummerx04 wrote: »

I was going to take it one step further, the name in my scan window is actually a custom link which I should be able to post directly in a chat channel so anyone with the Bot Scanner can activate the link directly and automatically generate the same report...

Yeah, I saw that you did that. What you might want to do is come up with such a link that does not have the account name or character name in it. Naming and Shaming is going to get people in trouble.

Dredlord wrote: »

1mirg wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Things would get done, that is for sure.

Meh, I don't expect much to be done if forum watchdogs were put in charge of policing the game. Mostly because they'd need to have more people policing the game than on the forums. Which sounds like something I don't see zos doing. Knowing them they'd prob just put like 4-5 people on police duty for the whole game and call it a day. Which wouldn't be enough.

If they wanted to get serious about it, I expect that they'd have to do something like this:
First they'd have to get several peps per zone because each map is like it's own separate part of the game. Along with several working for different regions and etc. Pretty much creating a huge network of active users on the game who are pretty much the police in the world. Making "zos" have a much more active presence in-game because we all know that you'd barely, if ever see a "zos" employee tag in chat anymore. (Which yes, they exist. I remember seeing them ingame during beta.). Then they'd need to have their own lil "area" to hang about in while reading reports ingame so they wouldn't be bugged while working. Blizzard for example uses a uninteresting island way out yonder. They'd also need to be given some easy of use commands and so on. There is more stuff but I'm getting lazy.

The point being is that implementing something like that will be alot of work and I honestly don't see @ZOS ever working that hard for something like that. Honestly, I would rather like to see them more active in-game and actually dealing out harsh punishment for cheaters/ exploiters on their own but over the years, I grown to just accept the fact that the developers don't wish to do that. All I do ingame now is pretty much just quest and clear maps and take part in events. I don't even touch the pvp part of the game anymore due to the rampant cheaters there working their way to getting emperorship and so on.

meh, whatever though. i honestly don't see the developers doing much, if anything about the cheaters/exploiters anyway and I don't see this thread making much of a difference over the hundreds of others saying pretty the same thing. The only way things will change is if the developers finally do something serious about it. Till then, all that's being done is just blowing hot air around.

Ha, ***. Give me 2 employees near minimum wage with no experience and I would eliminate 80% of the cheaters in less than 2 months.

There are a couple of areas in game that are known bot "hot spots." I bet on a forum thread we could identify the top 5 or 10 within a day. You could have a GM pop to each location every hour or so and see what's going on. You wouldn't need reports or player effort to do that.

I don't think they have GM's anymore - perhaps re-deployed to Crown Crate development ?

INHUMANENATION · October 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

There's alot of aggressive replies in this thread. It used to be shaming/naming or incendiary disrespectful comments would result in temporary bans. As threads like that do more to create a caustic environment of cancer more than bots or cheating. We are a community of people joined together by our rnjoyment of ESO and therefore we should all be respectful on that premise alone. There's no need to insinuate ineptitude or throw gasoline on the fire by asserting devs dont care. They ban alot of players and I, for one am glad it's private and discreetlyy done. So thank you Gine and Co. The vocal minority doesn't reflect the silent majority that enjoys Eso, warts and all.

Keep up the good work!

INHUMANENATION · October 2017

Start deputizing players and we'd have lynch mobs. I love yall players but the pile-ons and self -righteous indignation from groups of players in this game is appalling. The loudest denouncers of cheating are typically the biggest hypocrites ime. Report & move along. To do anything more is a waste of good time & energy. If this is a pc issue can u simply prevent datamining by disabling info? You'd lose all add-ons but we seem to do ok on Console.

Turelus · October 2017

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

Start deputizing players and we'd have lynch mobs. I love yall players but the pile-ons and self -righteous indignation from groups of players in this game is appalling. The loudest denouncers of cheating are typically the biggest hypocrites ime. Report & move along. To do anything more is a waste of good time & energy. If this is a pc issue can u simply prevent datamining by disabling info? You'd lose all add-ons but we seem to do ok on Console.

This is why I don't support it.

Also we as players have no proof of cheat engine use. The OP's video he expressed how some players who are slightly weaker after every patch is because of cheat engine, however what proof does one have of that? I know plenty of players who don't cheat and are very good at the game because they have the knowledge and reaction times.

As of others saying about big names admitting to cheating or having proof people cheat. If you have the evidence pass it directly to someone at ZOS and they will act. However I somewhat suspect much of it is people having no evidence to present and just having issues with said players.

MAOofDC · October 2017

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Guys we can do some thing if we all let zos know
ZOS removed the video , please go here to see the video that ZOS doesnt want u to see.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGWw6jfDz8x512GU8x3WVQA?view_as=subscriber
[Snip]

[Edit to remove video that leads to cheat programs]

Download the add-on Bot Scanner 2000 by @Drummerx04 it automatically generates a report. I was [snip] about about one in chat one day and he told me to download it and try it out. Oh man does it work and it's easy to use you turn it on look at the "player" it collects the "player's" name(s) two clicks later the report is sent. The only very slight concern is accidentally mousing over a live player or one just happens run by, but the names come up in the order targeted you can just not report that name.

If we help them by reporting them maybe they can bring under control, if anything they won't be able to say they don't know who is doing it.

Cpt_Teemo · October 2017

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

There's alot of aggressive replies in this thread. It used to be shaming/naming or incendiary disrespectful comments would result in temporary bans. As threads like that do more to create a caustic environment of cancer more than bots or cheating. We are a community of people joined together by our rnjoyment of ESO and therefore we should all be respectful on that premise alone. There's no need to insinuate ineptitude or throw gasoline on the fire by asserting devs dont care. They ban alot of players and I, for one am glad it's private and discreetlyy done. So thank you Gine and Co. The vocal minority doesn't reflect the silent majority that enjoys Eso, warts and all.

Keep up the good work!

You really believe they ban, the same name has been showing up after a couple days offline every time selling the mass amounts of craglorn materials every day.

Turelus · October 2017

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

There's alot of aggressive replies in this thread. It used to be shaming/naming or incendiary disrespectful comments would result in temporary bans. As threads like that do more to create a caustic environment of cancer more than bots or cheating. We are a community of people joined together by our rnjoyment of ESO and therefore we should all be respectful on that premise alone. There's no need to insinuate ineptitude or throw gasoline on the fire by asserting devs dont care. They ban alot of players and I, for one am glad it's private and discreetlyy done. So thank you Gine and Co. The vocal minority doesn't reflect the silent majority that enjoys Eso, warts and all.

Keep up the good work!

You really believe they ban, the same name has been showing up after a couple days offline every time selling the mass amounts of craglorn materials every day.

Screenshot every day, compile a report and throw it at them (respectfully) this is how I finally managed to get some action on the Bleakers issue.

I know some people take the "it's not our job" mindset to this but if people really do want to fight botting and RMT we have to put some work in as well. The more evidence we can gather the better.

Start posting edited version of the reports (no names) in the cheats exploits thread (daily if need be) and PM Gina/Jess or a moderator (Mika, Antonio I forget who else) with the unedited reports.

It's fine to sit and go "until ZOS does something I won't" but if ZOS isn't doing anything because we're not doing anything than we're all sat here staring at the other and wondering why the fire isn't being put out.

Also none of that is a pass for ZOS on needing to to do something to make our lives easier with how we report players and how they're seen. It shouldn't require more reports to be noticed, it really should be as simple as one report, on desk of GM/Security.

sirinsidiator · October 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

While this sounds nice, unfortunately I - and many others I talked to - had a different experience. A few weeks ago I reported several bots. I took the time to capture them on video and create a list of names which I sent via the ingame ticketing system. No answer.
I waited a few days and the bots are still running around.
I wrote a reply on the open ticket, pm'ed you here on the forum, asked other people to bring up the topic.
Only answer I got was a canned response on the ticket which got closed, but the bots are still running around.
In a final attempt, I brought it up in twitch chat before the previous ESO live and pm'ed the ticket number to @ZOS_RichLambert , but to this day I don't think it has been investigated as the videos have no views since I uploaded them to youtube.

Honestly, this doesn't give me the impression that you really care about getting rid of them. A simple answer like "thanks for sending us these videos, we will look into the issue" would have gone a long way, but all I got was silence or automated responses and no visible action at all after weeks. In the meantime I kicked the bots from my guild, so I can't see if they are still running around, but it would be nice if we could get an update when accounts we have reported were investigated or actioned, regardless of the outcome.

Deheart · October 2017

It comes down to the fact that there is no ZOS in-game presence and therefore reports are ignored because, by the time a ZOS employee gets around to reading the reports, there would be logically no reasonable way to actually read and investigate each one due to backlog. And then the cheating effectively gets ignored.

And then the reports trickle down to nothing because nothing is being done so players feel that there is no point in reporting so ZOS thinks the problem went away. And then the cheating effectively gets ignored.

Rince and repeat.

Biro123 · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

INHUMANENATION wrote: »

Start deputizing players and we'd have lynch mobs. I love yall players but the pile-ons and self -righteous indignation from groups of players in this game is appalling. The loudest denouncers of cheating are typically the biggest hypocrites ime. Report & move along. To do anything more is a waste of good time & energy. If this is a pc issue can u simply prevent datamining by disabling info? You'd lose all add-ons but we seem to do ok on Console.

This is why I don't support it.

Also we as players have no proof of cheat engine use. The OP's video he expressed how some players who are slightly weaker after every patch is because of cheat engine, however what proof does one have of that? I know plenty of players who don't cheat and are very good at the game because they have the knowledge and reaction times.

As of others saying about big names admitting to cheating or having proof people cheat. If you have the evidence pass it directly to someone at ZOS and they will act. However I somewhat suspect much of it is people having no evidence to present and just having issues with said players.

I gotta agree with that. I know when a new patch hits, I'm usually experimenting for a while - trying new build ideas based on the changes, seeing what works, what doesn't - and yeah, it takes me a while to get used to each now build I try (muscle-memory is so ingrained). I'm not a great player, but my skill-level definitely drops after a patch.
And yes, I've seen quite a few accusations of cheating on these forums with 'proof', from people who, it seems, don't appear to know what the word 'proof' means.
One always comes clearly to mind (cos it was one of the first I saw) - where his 'proof' of cheating was him saying he got hit by 7 abilities at the same time, and a screen-shot of a death-recap showing a light-attack, surprise-attack, viper proc, veli-proc, poison-injection tic and a glyph proc.... Seen others which have been the standard sorc delayed burst.

So yes, I do get very sceptical with most cheating accusations I see on the forums. It doesn't mean that I'm in denial that it happens - it just means that I don't see proof that it happened in that particular case.

Saw one just last night. It wasn't this game - but there was some fairly nasty chat going on from some guy accusing the other of cheating because he got 1-shotted (which was absolutely very possible given the scenario described).. It was VERY obvious he just didn't have a clue about game mechanics. I really don't get this kind of attitude..

josh.lackey_ESO · October 2017

Does anyone have CE tables for removing bar swap lag? Also for avoiding infinite load screen. Pm me, thx.

There could be more checks in the game for altered values, rather than relying on the client to be honest, but it would create more lag since the servers are running on 2010 celerons or something. It's obvious people in PvP are memory hacking (aka CE). It's always "ur just salty" until people get banned for demonstrating extreme things like meteor spam. But buffed recovery and resistances can be buffed and can be passed off as player skill or "just a good build". Cool story, bro.

There are also many exploits, bugging out gear sets and so on. They don't get admitted, but if you know the exploits, and you read the patch notes, you'll see an innocuous line or two about something being changed. They rarely admit "we fixed an exploit" outright. But as many as get fixed, that many more are introduced with new content, so after these little groups figured out what's broken in the new patch, they become more powerful again and pass it off as "adjusting to the nerfs" or whatever. Ya right.

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

mongoLC · October 2017

ffs a patch isn't a dlc its a change to the game files / exe that causes their cheat program to need a recompile with CE. happens every time there is a bug fix.

Turelus · October 2017

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

rhapsodious · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

rfennell_ESO · October 2017

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

Turelus · October 2017

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

rhapsodious · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

I've seen it before, let me change some details and paraphrase.

During last year's IC event, there were several prominent streamers going around bombing groups in the center and in the districts. Like, that's their thing. IC is a PVP zone. Go nuts, honestly, even if it sucks to get killed. So I was farming with a group, and we're getting periodically bombed by the same 2 or 3 guys, and eventually someone in the group (henceforth Guy) is saying where one of the bombers is, because he's watching their stream. For giggles, I open the link (hey, if you're gonna stream, it's fair game) and I'm watching this person go through their end of the sewers. Then, Guy shows up in the streamer's whispers. Basically calling them a jerk, that they're despicable for picking on PVErs (in a PVP zone but okay...) and saying he's watching - the streamer, of course, finds this amusing, and passes it off in a "get a load of this guy, what a jabroni" way. But then Guy starts getting harassed by some of the streamer's viewers, who find it dishonorable that he's watching or whatever. In-chat abuse, apparently whispers from in-game, some of them join up with the streamer later and start teabagging Guy when they kill him... it goes on.

It wouldn't surprise me if streamers are actually calling for their viewers to harass other people in game, and I'm certain it happens, but a fair portion of it is also the viewers deciding to be vigilantes.

KingMagaw · October 2017

1 Dev post every x months on this issue is changing nothing. There is no transparency to be measured here.

Until ZoS take it seriously by implementing detection software get used to the Cheating and Exploiting because the coding they use isn't dynamic and that is why we even see simple exploits like Clever Alchemist/Powerful assault/Meritorious Service the list goes on.

Denying CE/programs exist, like it was continually done 2 years ago by stating - No proof so it doesn't exist is so wrong - How is going to waste there time again to be crucified by exposing this?. There is simply no incentive for anyone to do so.

Most of my friends have already left the game due to unresolved issues and i rarely enter into PvP or play competitive PvE because it is simply all exploited.

rfennell_ESO · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

Short Answer: You Betcha.

In truth, they don't actually have to do it intentionally (they do that anyways), but with their nasty comments and constant insults toward their opponents it's going to happen due to the nature of things.

A former poster on these forums was harassed mercilessly in game like that. Nasty, hate filled pure harassment... By someone invited to esolive...

Firewalling their behavior with twitch doesn't make them beyond legal culpability of the TOS. They are still using the game to harass people.

ZOS_GinaBruno · October 2017

sirinsidiator wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

While this sounds nice, unfortunately I - and many others I talked to - had a different experience. A few weeks ago I reported several bots. I took the time to capture them on video and create a list of names which I sent via the ingame ticketing system. No answer.
I waited a few days and the bots are still running around.
I wrote a reply on the open ticket, pm'ed you here on the forum, asked other people to bring up the topic.
Only answer I got was a canned response on the ticket which got closed, but the bots are still running around.
In a final attempt, I brought it up in twitch chat before the previous ESO live and pm'ed the ticket number to @ZOS_RichLambert , but to this day I don't think it has been investigated as the videos have no views since I uploaded them to youtube.

Honestly, this doesn't give me the impression that you really care about getting rid of them. A simple answer like "thanks for sending us these videos, we will look into the issue" would have gone a long way, but all I got was silence or automated responses and no visible action at all after weeks. In the meantime I kicked the bots from my guild, so I can't see if they are still running around, but it would be nice if we could get an update when accounts we have reported were investigated or actioned, regardless of the outcome.

It's very possible that the original bots were removed, but these guys can simply just make a new account (and it's not uncommon for them to do so).

Turelus · October 2017

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

I've seen it before, let me change some details and paraphrase.

During last year's IC event, there were several prominent streamers going around bombing groups in the center and in the districts. Like, that's their thing. IC is a PVP zone. Go nuts, honestly, even if it sucks to get killed. So I was farming with a group, and we're getting periodically bombed by the same 2 or 3 guys, and eventually someone in the group (henceforth Guy) is saying where one of the bombers is, because he's watching their stream. For giggles, I open the link (hey, if you're gonna stream, it's fair game) and I'm watching this person go through their end of the sewers. Then, Guy shows up in the streamer's whispers. Basically calling them a jerk, that they're despicable for picking on PVErs (in a PVP zone but okay...) and saying he's watching - the streamer, of course, finds this amusing, and passes it off in a "get a load of this guy, what a jabroni" way. But then Guy starts getting harassed by some of the streamer's viewers, who find it dishonorable that he's watching or whatever. In-chat abuse, apparently whispers from in-game, some of them join up with the streamer later and start teabagging Guy when they kill him... it goes on.

It wouldn't surprise me if streamers are actually calling for their viewers to harass other people in game, and I'm certain it happens, but a fair portion of it is also the viewers deciding to be vigilantes.

So two people had an argument and a streamers fans acted like a bunch of sheep. This is basically the internet and unless the streamer specifically sat there telling others to harass that player or uses slurs or hate speech I don't think you go on speculation of "I'm certain it happens" without evidence.

This again goes back to what was said earlier. Everyone claims cheats/abuse etc. but when you ask for a very specific and defining bit of evidence you get "Well I am sure it happens".

Nothing rude against you, but you can't run around calling people out if you don't have examples of them telling people to harass others, then it's on each individual doing it and there is ignore/report for that exact reason.

rfennell_ESO · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

I've seen it before, let me change some details and paraphrase.

During last year's IC event, there were several prominent streamers going around bombing groups in the center and in the districts. Like, that's their thing. IC is a PVP zone. Go nuts, honestly, even if it sucks to get killed. So I was farming with a group, and we're getting periodically bombed by the same 2 or 3 guys, and eventually someone in the group (henceforth Guy) is saying where one of the bombers is, because he's watching their stream. For giggles, I open the link (hey, if you're gonna stream, it's fair game) and I'm watching this person go through their end of the sewers. Then, Guy shows up in the streamer's whispers. Basically calling them a jerk, that they're despicable for picking on PVErs (in a PVP zone but okay...) and saying he's watching - the streamer, of course, finds this amusing, and passes it off in a "get a load of this guy, what a jabroni" way. But then Guy starts getting harassed by some of the streamer's viewers, who find it dishonorable that he's watching or whatever. In-chat abuse, apparently whispers from in-game, some of them join up with the streamer later and start teabagging Guy when they kill him... it goes on.

It wouldn't surprise me if streamers are actually calling for their viewers to harass other people in game, and I'm certain it happens, but a fair portion of it is also the viewers deciding to be vigilantes.

So two people had an argument and a streamers fans acted like a bunch of sheep. This is basically the internet and unless the streamer specifically sat there telling others to harass that player or uses slurs or hate speech I don't think you go on speculation of "I'm certain it happens" without evidence.

This again goes back to what was said earlier. Everyone claims cheats/abuse etc. but when you ask for a very specific and defining bit of evidence you get "Well I am sure it happens".

Nothing rude against you, but you can't run around calling people out if you don't have examples of them telling people to harass others, then it's on each individual doing it and there is ignore/report for that exact reason.

Fair enough. I only brought it up as an example of poor judgement by ZOS. I personally don't care if they try and harass me via twitch in game... but, when ZOS decides "these are our ambassadors", well I would expect that noting they had many reports (multiple harassment claims against one) and some bans on the other... why exactly are they being invited to guest appearance on esolive?

The point is... it's very easy to not take ZOS seriously when you see that.

sirinsidiator · October 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

While this sounds nice, unfortunately I - and many others I talked to - had a different experience. A few weeks ago I reported several bots. I took the time to capture them on video and create a list of names which I sent via the ingame ticketing system. No answer.
I waited a few days and the bots are still running around.
I wrote a reply on the open ticket, pm'ed you here on the forum, asked other people to bring up the topic.
Only answer I got was a canned response on the ticket which got closed, but the bots are still running around.
In a final attempt, I brought it up in twitch chat before the previous ESO live and pm'ed the ticket number to @ZOS_RichLambert , but to this day I don't think it has been investigated as the videos have no views since I uploaded them to youtube.

Honestly, this doesn't give me the impression that you really care about getting rid of them. A simple answer like "thanks for sending us these videos, we will look into the issue" would have gone a long way, but all I got was silence or automated responses and no visible action at all after weeks. In the meantime I kicked the bots from my guild, so I can't see if they are still running around, but it would be nice if we could get an update when accounts we have reported were investigated or actioned, regardless of the outcome.

It's very possible that the original bots were removed, but these guys can simply just make a new account (and it's not uncommon for them to do so).

I know that they can just make another account, but it does take time for them to get back to their target level.
Besides, what I mean is that it just doesn't look like the issue is taken serious when all I (and others) get after reporting them via several channels is silence and the bots are running around for weeks, selling considerably rare crafting materials at a price that is ruining anyone who does not cheat the system that way. This doesn't really encourage me to report them since it looks like it is futile and a waste of my time. Maybe you can somehow improve the process so it does not look like I am talking against a wall when I report bots?

rhapsodious · October 2017

Turelus wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

rhapsodious wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »

One super simple solution would be to remove the name and shame policy, and let the players ostracize the bad apples. It would actually reduce the work ZOS does to forum police and also sort out the real issues in the game.

That just creates a mess though. How many people would be "exposed" yet actually not be cheaters and just people others don't like.

It just becomes player bashing without ever providing evidence, and if you have the evidence of a player which is so clear cut then it should be going to ZOS via a PM and dealt with that way.

Here is an example of why the Naming and Shaming policy is in effect, although, granted, not for cheating.

You don't want internet vigilantes dispensing justice, otherwise it'll become a complete mess of people reporting others they have a personal beef with. I do, however, hope stuff like Drummer's add-on increase efficacy of bot investigations, as they'd be receiving many reports at once.

It's an interesting theory.

Just going to throw this out there, because of it...

The guest appearance on ESOlive types that were unnamed in this thread use their twitch stream to harass people in game. That's how bad it was that oblivious ZOS had them on ESOlive, not only are they unaware of the true machinations of gameplay they exhibit, but they featured people that use twitch to harass people in game. Mind you it's not a every now and then thing, you can watch many a twitch stream and it's nothing but insults and "get him" harassment that goes from Twitch to game. That's a clear TOS violation, it doesn't actually matter if it's occurring on twitch: They are using ESO to broadcast on twitch to harass people in ESO.

So there are Twitch streamers deliberately calling for their fan base to attack specific players and harass them?

I've seen it before, let me change some details and paraphrase.

During last year's IC event, there were several prominent streamers going around bombing groups in the center and in the districts. Like, that's their thing. IC is a PVP zone. Go nuts, honestly, even if it sucks to get killed. So I was farming with a group, and we're getting periodically bombed by the same 2 or 3 guys, and eventually someone in the group (henceforth Guy) is saying where one of the bombers is, because he's watching their stream. For giggles, I open the link (hey, if you're gonna stream, it's fair game) and I'm watching this person go through their end of the sewers. Then, Guy shows up in the streamer's whispers. Basically calling them a jerk, that they're despicable for picking on PVErs (in a PVP zone but okay...) and saying he's watching - the streamer, of course, finds this amusing, and passes it off in a "get a load of this guy, what a jabroni" way. But then Guy starts getting harassed by some of the streamer's viewers, who find it dishonorable that he's watching or whatever. In-chat abuse, apparently whispers from in-game, some of them join up with the streamer later and start teabagging Guy when they kill him... it goes on.

It wouldn't surprise me if streamers are actually calling for their viewers to harass other people in game, and I'm certain it happens, but a fair portion of it is also the viewers deciding to be vigilantes.

So two people had an argument and a streamers fans acted like a bunch of sheep. This is basically the internet and unless the streamer specifically sat there telling others to harass that player or uses slurs or hate speech I don't think you go on speculation of "I'm certain it happens" without evidence.

This again goes back to what was said earlier. Everyone claims cheats/abuse etc. but when you ask for a very specific and defining bit of evidence you get "Well I am sure it happens".

Nothing rude against you, but you can't run around calling people out if you don't have examples of them telling people to harass others, then it's on each individual doing it and there is ignore/report for that exact reason.

(I think I did one of those things where I didn't chain my thoughts properly together when replying, the 'it' was more about the "insults and "get him" harassment" described. My bad!)

Right, that's exactly what happened. The viewers decided to be jerks about it, but the streamer didn't call for a witch hunt or even do more than the usual amount of retaliatory targeting.

I'm not trying to call anyone out (which is why I tried to keep the streamer's identity as vague as possible, not just because of the rules). I'm just saying that I definitely could believe that some streamers are inciting their viewers to attack others, but it's far more common that the viewers decide to be jerks of their own accord. I agree completely there, that anything less than concrete evidence of harassment should be taken with copious grains of salt.

In any case, that's exactly why the naming and shaming policy is there, and why it should stay - the last thing you want is a bunch of reactionaries going off of hearsay.

dimensional · October 2017

sirinsidiator wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

sirinsidiator wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys,

We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.

As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.

While this sounds nice, unfortunately I - and many others I talked to - had a different experience. A few weeks ago I reported several bots. I took the time to capture them on video and create a list of names which I sent via the ingame ticketing system. No answer.
I waited a few days and the bots are still running around.
I wrote a reply on the open ticket, pm'ed you here on the forum, asked other people to bring up the topic.
Only answer I got was a canned response on the ticket which got closed, but the bots are still running around.
In a final attempt, I brought it up in twitch chat before the previous ESO live and pm'ed the ticket number to @ZOS_RichLambert , but to this day I don't think it has been investigated as the videos have no views since I uploaded them to youtube.

Honestly, this doesn't give me the impression that you really care about getting rid of them. A simple answer like "thanks for sending us these videos, we will look into the issue" would have gone a long way, but all I got was silence or automated responses and no visible action at all after weeks. In the meantime I kicked the bots from my guild, so I can't see if they are still running around, but it would be nice if we could get an update when accounts we have reported were investigated or actioned, regardless of the outcome.

It's very possible that the original bots were removed, but these guys can simply just make a new account (and it's not uncommon for them to do so).

I know that they can just make another account, but it does take time for them to get back to their target level.
Besides, what I mean is that it just doesn't look like the issue is taken serious when all I (and others) get after reporting them via several channels is silence and the bots are running around for weeks, selling considerably rare crafting materials at a price that is ruining anyone who does not cheat the system that way. This doesn't really encourage me to report them since it looks like it is futile and a waste of my time. Maybe you can somehow improve the process so it does not look like I am talking against a wall when I report bots?

Report them, they get banned. If you're discouraged and don't report bots you're only making the problem worse for yourself and everyone else when you could have done something about it. Just do it. It only "looks" like it's futile and a waste of time because you do not get instant gratification as soon as you make the report. These things take time, you're not going to see someone get banned instantly, hell you might not even be aware of it at all. Just make the report.

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · October 2017

JonnytheKing wrote: »

Guys we can do some thing if we all let zos know
ZOS removed the video , please go here to see the video [snip].
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGWw6jfDz8x512GU8x3WVQA?view_as=subscriber
[Snip]

[Edit to remove video that leads to cheat programs]
[Edited to remove misinformation]

its simple to fix they just need to put an anit cheat guard on and make the game sever side based, its that simple

Taysa · October 2017

When multiple people have reported someone procing Selene's without attacking first, crit rushing much further than intended, marking fully stealthed players from much further than the game mechanics intended, among other things, and we still see that player daily, players tend to lose faith that ZoS takes cheating as seriously as they proclaim.

Trashkan · October 2017

This is uncalled for and should be addressed a.s.a.p. I had a feeling c.e were being used for a long time but didn't believe it until the meteor fest in cyro. I agree with the video 100% how it's not fair to label a cheater but I still finding myself doing this.