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Cheating We Can Stop It
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Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AoDD33pfri3d wrote: »
Agree, there should be 0 tolerance.
The problem with Zero Tolerance is that such policies are designed to solve problems by removing decisions from the flawed people who hand out the punishments. They give a false sense of security to the general population because they think that it solves whatever problems they have, but it just creates new ones. It is a nightmare for the person who gets caught up in it unjustly.
The reason I like to allow suspensions over permanent bans for player personal gain cheating is that it allows the judge to determine whether the punishment is appropriate to the crime and the player. It allows the suspended party to modify future behavior. If a mistake is made, it is only temporary.
In the case of "gold selling" and the associated botting, a permanent ban is appropriate. I don't classify this sort of botting and gold selling as "cheating" when done by an outside entity for the purpose of doing business. Cheating is when a player is botting for personal gain. The player should be allowed to turn it into a suspension for the first offense, but only if it can be determined that they are doing it for personal gain, not as a business activity. The first offense player should have the opportunity to correct their behavior and demonstrate this by never botting again. The gold sellers can rot in Hell.Edited by Elsonso on October 15, 2017 12:31PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus4 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »AoDD33pfri3d wrote: »
Agree, there should be 0 tolerance.
The problem with Zero Tolerance is that such policies are designed to solve problems by removing decisions from the flawed people who hand out the punishments. They give a false sense of security to the general population because they think that it solves whatever problems they have, but it just creates new ones. It is a nightmare for the person who gets caught up in it unjustly.
The reason I like to allow suspensions over permanent bans for player personal gain cheating is that it allows the judge to determine whether the punishment is appropriate to the crime and the player. It allows the suspended party to modify future behavior. If a mistake is made, it is only temporary.
In the case of "gold selling" and the associated botting, a permanent ban is appropriate. I don't classify this sort of botting and gold selling as "cheating" when done by an outside entity for the purpose of doing business. Cheating is when a player is botting for personal gain. The player should be allowed to turn it into a suspension for the first offense, but only if it can be determined that they are doing it for personal gain, not as a business activity. The first offense player should have the opportunity to correct their behavior and demonstrate this by never botting again. The gold sellers can rot in Hell.
Modify future behavior by keeping ill gotten gains, nice.1 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭we have to keep this gooing , cant let it die
TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp1 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »AoDD33pfri3d wrote: »
Agree, there should be 0 tolerance.
The problem with Zero Tolerance is that such policies are designed to solve problems by removing decisions from the flawed people who hand out the punishments. They give a false sense of security to the general population because they think that it solves whatever problems they have, but it just creates new ones. It is a nightmare for the person who gets caught up in it unjustly.
The reason I like to allow suspensions over permanent bans for player personal gain cheating is that it allows the judge to determine whether the punishment is appropriate to the crime and the player. It allows the suspended party to modify future behavior. If a mistake is made, it is only temporary.
In the case of "gold selling" and the associated botting, a permanent ban is appropriate. I don't classify this sort of botting and gold selling as "cheating" when done by an outside entity for the purpose of doing business. Cheating is when a player is botting for personal gain. The player should be allowed to turn it into a suspension for the first offense, but only if it can be determined that they are doing it for personal gain, not as a business activity. The first offense player should have the opportunity to correct their behavior and demonstrate this by never botting again. The gold sellers can rot in Hell.
Modify future behavior by keeping ill gotten gains, nice.
No, it should be immediately taken away. Immediately. Not months later, after they have spread it around all over the game.Edited by Elsonso on October 15, 2017 6:24PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus1 -
GrigorijMalahevich✭✭✭✭✭Who cares...
I saw yesterday in Grathwood about 16 man group that was running around in a perfect line and killing mobs. Just out of curiosity I followed them and they were totally random level characters, like 25lvl, 130 cp, 110cp etc., perfect line all the time
Obviously those were macros bots or someone is leveling accounts for coin, or just selling accounts...PC/EU 800 CP.
PvP MagSorc.Pedro Gonzales - Mag Sorc EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/CB6j6
Valera Progib - Stam Sorc DC vMA Flawless Conqueror clear https://i.imgur.com/eYgpXG2.png
Valera Pozhar - Mag DK EP vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/jrsuK
Valera Podlechi - Mag Templar AD vMA Flawless Conqueror clear http://imgur.com/a/N0BYq0 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭
I hate to break it to you but it actually is because of real money that one can earn through botting. Which can reach quite the high price. (check spoiler for a example of that)I refuse to believe that after paying the cost to run 4 pc's to bot that you could make any real money.I'm not showing the website. So dont ask.
What makes the matter worse is that @ZOS isn't doing anything towards the people who give these people money, like for example those who bought a high level toon never run into any issues once they own the account and are playing on it. It's kinda like they are approving of users who give the bots money by not giving them any punishments either.
Either way, the developers need to change the way they punish these people. The current "punishing" isn't doing anything. Especially when you consider that these people are earning alot of money doing this.
Those aren't bot accounts being sold, those are legit players quitting and selling their accounts. Bot accounts are all about farming gold. The axcount you linked takes years to polish....not worth the money for time it takes to churn accounts like that. You'll make more working 40 hours/week at MacDonalds.0 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭✭he is my new video
https://youtu.be/7i1Uqci08Xk TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp2 -
Jade1986✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭lordrichter wrote: »AoDD33pfri3d wrote: »
Agree, there should be 0 tolerance.
The problem with Zero Tolerance is that such policies are designed to solve problems by removing decisions from the flawed people who hand out the punishments. They give a false sense of security to the general population because they think that it solves whatever problems they have, but it just creates new ones. It is a nightmare for the person who gets caught up in it unjustly.
The reason I like to allow suspensions over permanent bans for player personal gain cheating is that it allows the judge to determine whether the punishment is appropriate to the crime and the player. It allows the suspended party to modify future behavior. If a mistake is made, it is only temporary.
In the case of "gold selling" and the associated botting, a permanent ban is appropriate. I don't classify this sort of botting and gold selling as "cheating" when done by an outside entity for the purpose of doing business. Cheating is when a player is botting for personal gain. The player should be allowed to turn it into a suspension for the first offense, but only if it can be determined that they are doing it for personal gain, not as a business activity. The first offense player should have the opportunity to correct their behavior and demonstrate this by never botting again. The gold sellers can rot in Hell.
Botting is not nearly as bad as actually cheating to influence the outcome of pvp for example. Botting I would be for suspensions, but cheating for personal gain should be no tolerance. Make an example out of people, and then others will be less inclined to cheat. As it stands now hardly anyone gets banned.1 -
Mystrius_Archaion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lol people really don't care for this game. Tried for years to get a grassroots anti cheat but it's always meh at best.
Attitude of player base is zos don't care we don't care
More like "if t doesn't interfere with my playing then I don't care".
That's why most people don't care about it in pve if that pve is designed better. Now, if they were stealing crafting nodes from me by using a farming program then I would absolutely hate it. If it makes buying them super cheap at guild stores though, I would like it since it is a counter to the usual runaway inflation of game economies that just suck.
In pvp, cheating is used differently anyway. That's where it is a problem depending on how it happens, and it mostly only matters when real life money is involved such as esports.
By the way, I bet a lot of people would agree with me and wish we could use a farming bot ourselves to get crafting mats while offline so that we could get in the game and play the actual fun parts.
If I want to grind and farm as gameplay then I'll go play Farmville through Facebook. If I want flashy combat fun then I'll play this game and hope grind gets made less of a grind and maybe hold out hope they release official bot capability since I won't use unofficial stuff and risk losing my ability to play.
This is probably why we have hirelings and also enlightened bonus for experience towards champion points. Both help to avoid grind.0 -
br0steen✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »sirinsidiator wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Hey guys,
We know that cheating players and botters takes away from your experience in the game, and also affects important aspects such as the economy or scoring. We do take this very seriously, and appreciate everyone who brings these to our attention. For the record, we are aware of the sites called out from the OP. While we can’t discuss specifics, we do our best to combat sites and programs that encourage breaking our Terms of Service.
As far as what you can do to help, telling us is the first step. If you run across someone you believe is cheating (whether it’s botting or exploiting), please report them. You can do so in-game or simply by messaging a staff member on the forums (it can be me, Jess, or any of the moderators). Keep in mind our TOS team suspends and bans botting accounts daily, and investigations are prioritized based on the number of reports received.
While this sounds nice, unfortunately I - and many others I talked to - had a different experience. A few weeks ago I reported several bots. I took the time to capture them on video and create a list of names which I sent via the ingame ticketing system. No answer.
I waited a few days and the bots are still running around.
I wrote a reply on the open ticket, pm'ed you here on the forum, asked other people to bring up the topic.
Only answer I got was a canned response on the ticket which got closed, but the bots are still running around.
In a final attempt, I brought it up in twitch chat before the previous ESO live and pm'ed the ticket number to @ZOS_RichLambert , but to this day I don't think it has been investigated as the videos have no views since I uploaded them to youtube.
Honestly, this doesn't give me the impression that you really care about getting rid of them. A simple answer like "thanks for sending us these videos, we will look into the issue" would have gone a long way, but all I got was silence or automated responses and no visible action at all after weeks. In the meantime I kicked the bots from my guild, so I can't see if they are still running around, but it would be nice if we could get an update when accounts we have reported were investigated or actioned, regardless of the outcome.
It's very possible that the original bots were removed, but these guys can simply just make a new account (and it's not uncommon for them to do so).
So then we can say it's then equally very possible that the original bots were not removed, and player's tickets and attempted communication to zos employees was therefore ignored? Although I don't want to assume ignored, perhaps just never seen? It would go a long way towards positive customer relations if you were able to confirm they did get removed rather just saying it's in the realm of possibility, and maybe even apologize for the company's lack of communication?0 -
SKinraiSoul ShrivenI believe in making godmode PC characters, but cheating with bulkware programs and addons, bots, or game hacks i am against that and ill put my word in to. Cheating is gay and is dishonesty and dishonors the truth of anyones real metal at the game, cheating should be abolished!
Vampires, the vamplade, Dro M Athra vamps player creations, especially the Vamplar, are considered game legal cheating.
Nirnhoned mega-tanks and resto tanks(Using the restoration champion skills) are considered cheaters.
The Molag Kena + Mothers Sorrow necro is classified in cheating discoveries.
Most IC build wardens are classed in cheating, though the warden utterly sucks, you folks really bombed this pay per view clown really bad, i cant even play overland with them with a tank setup, sad.
The all stats werewolf with hundings and Fungal Grotto gear and universal potions is considered a duelist cheater.
Theirs more, like the Clever Alchemist set, will setup and optimize patent cheaters to.
Honorable mention: Magplar, not really a cheater just a top group asset.
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ZOS_IcymodGreetings,
We have closed this topic as it was originally created in October 2017. In many cases, it's better to create a new thread on a topic that you want to discuss as opposed to bumping one that is rather old.
Thank you for your understanding.1
This discussion has been closed.