The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Templar.exe has stopped working
jrgray93
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Just here to waste my time with another thread.
For the love of god, stop with the random Templar nerfs.
Cleanse isn't something that needs "strategic" use. It's what makes templars viable. Other classes all have some form of mitigation (DK resistances / blocks / cc, sorc shields) or escape (streak, cloak). Templars have no mobility or escape mechanisms, their CC has been repeatedly maimed by ZOS, and they must simply take the damage and heal through it. Cleanse spam is a vital component of this. If cleanse is too expensive, every single magplar is a simple defile away from death. It's already incredibly easy to defeat most templars by just slotting a defile ability.
Magicka templars are in no way overperforming in PvP right now. This change is utterly unnecessary. It seems like a dev got annoyed that their debuffs were being cleansed and decided to randomly nerf this spell, completely missing the point of how templars must be played to be competitive. Add on to that the change to siphoner and lol RIP templars. Not like those resource drain poisons aren't already absurd enough as it is, especially post-Morrowind.
To put this in perspective, I've been rank 1 on the NA megaserver for templars in VMA from time to time. I'm currently ranked third but hoping to push to first with some gear changes. Lazy runs until then. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at templars. Put me against an equally skilled stam sorc, stam DK, or mag NB and I just can't win anymore. Also compare top VMA scores between classes and you can see templars simply aren't performing anymore. I find them generally enjoyable to do the content with but they just don't have the effectiveness needed to compete. They're second only to wardens in the suck department.
Moving right along, how many years is it going to take until you listen to the community on Healing Ritual? Delayed burst healing makes zero sense. It will never make sense. As stated by others, if you make this spell make sense, it will just replace HtD / BoL and then we'll still have a useless spell. Redesign it entirely. Sun Shield is in the same boat. Virtually nobody uses it outside of troll builds.
Focused Charge is still buggy 3 1/2 years post-launch but it has uses when it wants to work. Radiant Oppression still isn't scaling damage correctly, neutering magplar DPS. Piercing Javelin still feels like it doesn't have a place the vast majority of the time, only seeming decent for stamina and rarely at that. It no longer even knocks people off outposts because of the knockback range increase simply landing them on the next outcropping. At least that used to be good for a laugh.
I will reserve judgement on the eclipse changes until I get a chance to test them extensively but I am predicting another clunky, too-situational-to-justify-the-slot spell.
Templars are still fighting over corpses because of the senseless change to the new selfish Repentance, making us the only class that comes to mind that actually has a basic incompatibility for group composition. Just gut the healing component to be far less than it is now (it's already 90% overhealing) and allow each player to repent a corpse once and it would be fine. Stamplar sustain is already garbage to begin with. Would be nice if Rune Focus followed suit with the recent orb / Shards changes and restored your highest resource pool instead of just magicka.
Nova is still vastly inferior to Meteor or the destro ult in anything but niche scenarios, perhaps such as hardcore vet trials where they want the mitigation it provides. Would be a lot better if synergies weren't an unreliable system, again, 3 1/2 years into launch.
There is a great wall of text by @Hymzir here with plenty of solid suggestions worth a read. Note that Hymzir may or may not agree with my statements here and I am not putting words in their mouth, but rather pointing to another templar post I found thoughtful.
Long story short, templars are a hot mess right now and have plenty of glaring issues that need addressed. Instead of addressing them, we're trying the same tired, useless approach that has repeatedly failed in the past, completely ignoring what the most informed players and biggest names in templars have been saying for years. At the same time, we're being kicked while we're down with a senseless nerf. Thanks, ZOS.
Edited by jrgray93 on October 10, 2017 5:42PM For the love of god, stop with the random Templar nerfs.
Cleanse isn't something that needs "strategic" use. It's what makes templars viable. Other classes all have some form of mitigation (DK resistances / blocks / cc, sorc shields) or escape (streak, cloak). Templars have no mobility or escape mechanisms, their CC has been repeatedly maimed by ZOS, and they must simply take the damage and heal through it. Cleanse spam is a vital component of this. If cleanse is too expensive, every single magplar is a simple defile away from death. It's already incredibly easy to defeat most templars by just slotting a defile ability.
Magicka templars are in no way overperforming in PvP right now. This change is utterly unnecessary. It seems like a dev got annoyed that their debuffs were being cleansed and decided to randomly nerf this spell, completely missing the point of how templars must be played to be competitive. Add on to that the change to siphoner and lol RIP templars. Not like those resource drain poisons aren't already absurd enough as it is, especially post-Morrowind.
To put this in perspective, I've been rank 1 on the NA megaserver for templars in VMA from time to time. I'm currently ranked third but hoping to push to first with some gear changes. Lazy runs until then. I'd like to think I'm pretty good at templars. Put me against an equally skilled stam sorc, stam DK, or mag NB and I just can't win anymore. Also compare top VMA scores between classes and you can see templars simply aren't performing anymore. I find them generally enjoyable to do the content with but they just don't have the effectiveness needed to compete. They're second only to wardens in the suck department.
Moving right along, how many years is it going to take until you listen to the community on Healing Ritual? Delayed burst healing makes zero sense. It will never make sense. As stated by others, if you make this spell make sense, it will just replace HtD / BoL and then we'll still have a useless spell. Redesign it entirely. Sun Shield is in the same boat. Virtually nobody uses it outside of troll builds.
Focused Charge is still buggy 3 1/2 years post-launch but it has uses when it wants to work. Radiant Oppression still isn't scaling damage correctly, neutering magplar DPS. Piercing Javelin still feels like it doesn't have a place the vast majority of the time, only seeming decent for stamina and rarely at that. It no longer even knocks people off outposts because of the knockback range increase simply landing them on the next outcropping. At least that used to be good for a laugh.
I will reserve judgement on the eclipse changes until I get a chance to test them extensively but I am predicting another clunky, too-situational-to-justify-the-slot spell.
Templars are still fighting over corpses because of the senseless change to the new selfish Repentance, making us the only class that comes to mind that actually has a basic incompatibility for group composition. Just gut the healing component to be far less than it is now (it's already 90% overhealing) and allow each player to repent a corpse once and it would be fine. Stamplar sustain is already garbage to begin with. Would be nice if Rune Focus followed suit with the recent orb / Shards changes and restored your highest resource pool instead of just magicka.
Nova is still vastly inferior to Meteor or the destro ult in anything but niche scenarios, perhaps such as hardcore vet trials where they want the mitigation it provides. Would be a lot better if synergies weren't an unreliable system, again, 3 1/2 years into launch.
There is a great wall of text by @Hymzir here with plenty of solid suggestions worth a read. Note that Hymzir may or may not agree with my statements here and I am not putting words in their mouth, but rather pointing to another templar post I found thoughtful.
Long story short, templars are a hot mess right now and have plenty of glaring issues that need addressed. Instead of addressing them, we're trying the same tired, useless approach that has repeatedly failed in the past, completely ignoring what the most informed players and biggest names in templars have been saying for years. At the same time, we're being kicked while we're down with a senseless nerf. Thanks, ZOS.
EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job
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jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job4 -
Zer0oo✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
Muhahah
- Update 23Ice Furnace: This item set now grants Spell Damage, rather than Weapon Damage for the 4 piece bonus1 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT8 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job4 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
Muhahah
I mean, if you don't know how to PvP on a Sorc then that's just a L2P problem. Assuming it isn't a blockplar healbot who doesn't do any damage, Magplars are fodder for my Sorc.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 501 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...
I'm not. Usually a stalemate if they don't have help.What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.
I'm saying magicka DKs are in a similar situation to templars but can still get away with a bit more blocking (the aforementioned "resistances") but stamina DKs can get away with a LOT more blocking, and that is to say nothing of reflect. Their healing is also far more of a passive act, especially with Battle Roar. Aside from sweeps, templars have to drop offense to heal. DKs have more set-it-and-forget-it opions. The point remains that templars are predominately, if not exclusively, the class without a quintessential escape or mitigation method outside of simply healing through the damage. DK CC also helps considerably to avoid damage entirely, while templars have had their CC gutted time and time again. I cannot comment on how the DK CC changes on the PTS will translate to live, but DKs have roots for days right now.Edited by jrgray93 on October 10, 2017 4:07PMEP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
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That's his point though - just like Bosmer the racial passive prevents the status effect to get applied, meaning no defile at all.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Does it matter? Nitpicking a single point about magicka sorcerer vs magicka templar doesn't change 95% of what I said in the OP. Mag sorcs are in a better place than magicka templars and I doubt anyone would refute that.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job8 -
Solariken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Bravo, OP. I mean I don't expect ZOS to care but our only hope is to band together as an army of squeaky wheels.6 -
Kilandros✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...
I'm not. Usually a stalemate if they don't have help.What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.
I'm saying magicka DKs are in a similar situation to templars but can still get away with a bit more blocking (the aforementioned "resistances") but stamina DKs can get away with a LOT more blocking. Their healing is also far more of a passive act, especially with Battle Roar. The point remains that templars are predominately, if not exclusively, the class without a quintessential escape or mitigation method outside of simply healing through the damage. DK CC also helps considerably to avoid damage entirely, while templars have had their CC gutted time and time again. I cannot comment on how the DK CC changes on the PTS will translate to live, but DKs have roots for days right now.
This is just a ridiculous statement. If you want to keep doing this, I'll go ahead and eviscerate your arguments but it will detract from the purpose of the thread. I dislike many of the Templar changes so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you keep posting stuff that displays a startling lack of understanding of basic class mechanics this thread is going to go south real fast.
Invictus
Kilandros - Dragonknight / Grand Overlord
Deimos - Templar / Grand Warlord
Sias - Sorcerer / PrefectZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
DK IS NOT JUST A TANK CLASS. #PLAYTHEWAYYOUWANT2 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy_Division
That's his point though - just like Bosmer the racial passive prevents the status effect to get applied, meaning no defile at all.
I see. It's not so easy to keep track of what's a bug and what's a feature.
i'm not sure how this is some compelling reason for us non-Argonian templars to sit back quietly and accept a random nerf throw our way. Did I miss in the patch notes that here was an a 14% increase the cost of Rally and Vigor on Bosmer characters since they can't get defiled either?4 -
Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭if you are playing a decent templar, you surely can fight a sorcerer on par and also defeat him (as long he is not one of famous super genius sorcerer on the server).
what jrgray probably means, that every class has some kind of unique defensive mechanism: sorcerer are shielding themselves into oblivion, do streak or put down some mines, nightblades are cloaking away, wardens....ehhh planting some trees, dragon knights have good blocking abilities and have serious defensice mechanisms by ccing and using talons. so what is the defensive mechanism of templars: right, its healing and cleansing. thats the way templars defensive works most of the time and ZOS really shouldnt make the templars viability worse....6 -
nCats✭✭✭Templars are still fighting over corpses because of the senseless change to the new selfish Repentance, making us the only class that comes to mind that actually has a basic incompatibility for group composition. Just gut the healing component to be far less than it is now (it's already 90% overhealing) and allow each player to repent a corpse once and it would be fine. Stamplar sustain is already garbage to begin with. Would be nice if Rune Focus followed suit with the recent orb / Shards changes and restored your highest resource pool instead of just magicka.
Yes, please.
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Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy_Division
That wasn't the point I guess. OP says that Templars are one Major Defile away from death most times if Ritual is so expensive. @Derra pointed out that Sorcs for example don't have native access to major defile and that enchants don't work on 2 of the best races for mag and stam Templars that you encounter quite often in Cyrodiil in response to that.
I don't think the Templar nerfs have been warranted either. The S&B block casting Healbots warp the picture of the class and are the reason for the recent nerfs I guess.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 46 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1700+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...
I'm not. Usually a stalemate if they don't have help.What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.
I'm saying magicka DKs are in a similar situation to templars but can still get away with a bit more blocking (the aforementioned "resistances") but stamina DKs can get away with a LOT more blocking. Their healing is also far more of a passive act, especially with Battle Roar. The point remains that templars are predominately, if not exclusively, the class without a quintessential escape or mitigation method outside of simply healing through the damage. DK CC also helps considerably to avoid damage entirely, while templars have had their CC gutted time and time again. I cannot comment on how the DK CC changes on the PTS will translate to live, but DKs have roots for days right now.
This is just a ridiculous statement. If you want to keep doing this, I'll go ahead and eviscerate your arguments but it will detract from the purpose of the thread. I dislike many of the Templar changes so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you keep posting stuff that displays a startling lack of understanding of basic class mechanics this thread is going to go south real fast.
I'm honestly having trouble figuring out your objection but I know you main a DK and I main a templar so there's also likely some bias at play.
So I'll just say I have a far easier time downing templars than I do DKs. There has to be something causing that. I don't mean to imply that DKs are superior. I'm just saying the unique survival mechanism of the templar being the target of a nerf is silly.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job1 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS has gotten lost in a circle of fiddling with the wrong triggers for "balance" purposes.
We get more unblockable ***, we lose countermeasures, and all in the name of balance. PvEers cry wolf due to PvP motivated changes and vice versa.
The simple formula for balance is: tank vs damage. You get more tanky, you lose damage. You get more damage output, you get squishy.
Instead, we have heavy armor that increases damage output by getting hit or defensive spells (i.e. shields) that scale with a damage stat.
PvP is a lost cause. Just make everyone a one-man-nuclear-bomb in a force shield and be done with it. Then at least we can have fun in PvE.5 -
mandricus✭✭✭✭✭It's quite incredible how the feedback is quite consistent in all the Templars feedbacks threads provided by several players since Morrowind update. They are, more or less, all saying the same things.
And it's not surprising at all how ZoS keep to be consistent at ignoring their feedback.
RIP Templars. It has been a lot of fun.
I hope that every Templar main will just slowly stop playing this game, as time goes by.
Let the Sorcs reign and compete each others.Edited by mandricus on October 10, 2017 5:03PM1 -
Minno✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@Joy_Division
That wasn't the point I guess. OP says that Templars are one Major Defile away from death most times if Ritual is so expensive. @Derra pointed out that Sorcs for example don't have native access to major defile and that enchants don't work on 2 of the best races for mag and stam Templars that you encounter quite often in Cyrodiil in response to that.
I don't think the Templar nerfs have been warranted either. The S&B block casting Healbots warp the picture of the class and are the reason for the recent nerfs I guess.
Idk if the healbots are to blame . I think it's a two fold review of the siphoner CP star. We mentioned that that star was useless even after it's change to 25% max. So they buffed the hell out of it too make it more attractive.
Then they decided that in order to make that star attractive against templars who can remove the debuff altogether, they increased the cost to our class defining skill to make that star stick.
It's following their intent of "buff one, nerf another" mentality we have been seeing this pts cycle.Minno - DC - Forum-plar Extraordinaire
- Guild-lead for MV
- Filthy Casual2 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...
I'm not. Usually a stalemate if they don't have help.What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.
I'm saying magicka DKs are in a similar situation to templars but can still get away with a bit more blocking (the aforementioned "resistances") but stamina DKs can get away with a LOT more blocking. Their healing is also far more of a passive act, especially with Battle Roar. The point remains that templars are predominately, if not exclusively, the class without a quintessential escape or mitigation method outside of simply healing through the damage. DK CC also helps considerably to avoid damage entirely, while templars have had their CC gutted time and time again. I cannot comment on how the DK CC changes on the PTS will translate to live, but DKs have roots for days right now.
This is just a ridiculous statement. If you want to keep doing this, I'll go ahead and eviscerate your arguments but it will detract from the purpose of the thread. I dislike many of the Templar changes so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you keep posting stuff that displays a startling lack of understanding of basic class mechanics this thread is going to go south real fast.
I'm honestly having trouble figuring out your objection but I know you main a DK and I main a templar so there's also likely some bias at play.
So I'll just say I have a far easier time downing templars than I do DKs. There has to be something causing that. I don't mean to imply that DKs are superior. I'm just saying the unique survival mechanism of the templar being the target of a nerf is silly.
You can shut down any perma DK just using a CC, or a stam poison. Stamina is not eternalSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
jrgray93✭✭✭✭✭
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I've never seen a mag sorc struggle to take down a templar, argonian or otherwise. Sorcs have been the golden child of ZOS for a while now and their toolkit just packs so much of a punch that they can substitute well-timed CC and burst in place of defile. At best, a solid mag sorc vs templar fight results in a stalemate.
If you´re dying to a sorc on a classic templar build you´re doing something incredibly wrong - but that´s just me...
I'm not. Usually a stalemate if they don't have help.What are these "DK resistances" of which you speak? I don't want to derail your thread, but DKs and Templars are kind of in the same boat defensively, right?
Similar in terms of spells but better blocking and sustain passives, as well as vastly superior ults. Templars not built specifically for blocking will run out of stamina in a hurry. Stam DKs in particular can shake that off. Mag is more or less in a similar boat.
I'm becoming increasingly confused by what you're saying and what point you're trying to make. Perhaps you ought to proceed carefully with the nebulous class comparisons--it will make this a much cleaner discussion.
I'm saying magicka DKs are in a similar situation to templars but can still get away with a bit more blocking (the aforementioned "resistances") but stamina DKs can get away with a LOT more blocking. Their healing is also far more of a passive act, especially with Battle Roar. The point remains that templars are predominately, if not exclusively, the class without a quintessential escape or mitigation method outside of simply healing through the damage. DK CC also helps considerably to avoid damage entirely, while templars have had their CC gutted time and time again. I cannot comment on how the DK CC changes on the PTS will translate to live, but DKs have roots for days right now.
This is just a ridiculous statement. If you want to keep doing this, I'll go ahead and eviscerate your arguments but it will detract from the purpose of the thread. I dislike many of the Templar changes so I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, but if you keep posting stuff that displays a startling lack of understanding of basic class mechanics this thread is going to go south real fast.
I'm honestly having trouble figuring out your objection but I know you main a DK and I main a templar so there's also likely some bias at play.
So I'll just say I have a far easier time downing templars than I do DKs. There has to be something causing that. I don't mean to imply that DKs are superior. I'm just saying the unique survival mechanism of the templar being the target of a nerf is silly.
You can shut down any perma DK just using a CC, or a stam poison. Stamina is not eternal
I'm not referring to perma-block DKs, but rather well-built DKs with offensive capability. Perma-block is another issue entirely. I also refuse to use resource drain poisons on principle but I get that I'm robbing myself of an edge by doing that and that's on me.EP: Slania Isara : Harambe Was an Inside Job0 -
Hymzir✭✭✭✭✭
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Just stopping by to note that I agree with pretty much all you said, and am happy to see that I am not the only one who thinks the way I do about the state of Templars. Like many others have pointed out, it is amazing how consistent the feedback given by Templar players is. We may not all agree on specific fixes to the issues, but we are very much in unison as to what is wrong with the class and what needs to be done in general.Long story short, templars are a hot mess right now and have plenty of glaring issues that need addressed. Instead of addressing them, we're trying the same tired, useless approach that has repeatedly failed in the past, completely ignoring what the most informed players and biggest names in templars have been saying for years. At the same time, we're being kicked while we're down with a senseless nerf. Thanks, ZOS.
Which brings me to a second thing I want to point - it is also equally amazing how uniform the indifference of ZOS is towards the Templar class. For years now we have been a mess of crappy passives and useless skills. We have never really given any proper buffs along the way. Just nerfs and more nerfs. And if we do get a buff, we will always get a nerf too, to compensate things. And then a patch later the buff will get nerfed but the original "balancing" nerf will also stay.
Remember when the self heals on Puncturing Sweep got nerfed due to the fact that we have such an easy time of keeping Major Mending up. Then they decided that Major Mending made our other heals way too good and it got nerfed to just Minor Mending. But Puncturing Sweep still got to keep the nerf. That's just the way it goes with Templars.
In all the Time that ESO has been live, Templars have been crapped on by ZOS, and usually rank at the bottom when people rate the classes. (Just search the forums for old posts about ranking the classes. Templars will almost always be at the bottom end of the scale.) The few times we actually managed to become effective, and useful as a class, were never due to changes made to the class itself. (Except possibly with the introduction of the very first incarnation of Radiant Destruction. Since that thing was just out of whack in it's initial release form.) When ever Templar performance has improved due to changes made by a patch, it has pretty much always been due to something non-Templar class specific being changed or introduced, that just happened to be very beneficial to Templars in particular. But usually that also meant that few updates later Templars would once more be on the receiving end of the nerf bat.
Like few others have remarked - the only explanation that makes sense to me is that Wrobel hates Templars.Edited by Hymzir on October 10, 2017 6:12PM8 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
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That wasn't the point I guess. OP says that Templars are one Major Defile away from death most times if Ritual is so expensive. @Derra pointed out that Sorcs for example don't have native access to major defile and that enchants don't work on 2 of the best races for mag and stam Templars that you encounter quite often in Cyrodiil in response to that.
I don't think the Templar nerfs have been warranted either. The S&B block casting Healbots warp the picture of the class and are the reason for the recent nerfs I guess.
Well every class has cancer builds, but you don't' see me gong into their threads implying that random nerfs aren't so bad and maybe ZoS is right nerfing classes and builds because my class or build doesn't have an easy access to a convenient hard counter.
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DeHei✭✭✭✭✭Hey, i can say, that i am one of the experienced magicka templar on PC/EU. I play PvE and PvP and i hold actually the highest score for magicka templar in vMSA.
I really feel with you. The problem is, that our buffs are aactually just for useless skills and our useful ones only get nerf after nerf. Our ritual is really really strong and nearly the most powerful skill templar have. I really can understand, just when i look on the skill and see how much effects this skill does, that the cost could maybe be a bit higher. It should not be a spammable skill. But when we look to our class, we dont get anything now or in the past to handle this amount of nerfs!
Just very experienced magicka Templar can touch a DPS, that they are good enough for good trial groups. There are better tanks with choosing DK or Warden. Only reason to pick a magicka templar is healing anymore... But other classes can heal similar good just with using healingstaffskills only too. So there all classes get buffs, while templar nerfed in some ways.
Now we templar should get a rebalancing for damage to be possible to make 40k DPS too singletarget (selfbuffed) or make the classes more unique, that there will be more then 1 little reason to pick a class!
Its frustrating like hell!DeHei - EP Magicka Templar AllrounderDe Hei(Youtube)4
you're actually right tho 
