Lets finally talk about Asylum two hander.

Xsorus · October 2017

Doesn't sound overpowered.

Sounds fairly balanced....and to be honest this sounds like the whines I heard about VMA Two Hander before it went live

"Oh the 10k dot over 5 seconds is super Overpowered!"

never mind it was really 5k, and then you reduced it further by armor......

Basically made that weapon *** except for the weapon damage bonus because people didn't understand how PvP worked.

SodanTok · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

That joke is something majority of PVP never done. The best procset in the game was trial drop and in a year people had chance to use it and abuse it I have never ever even saw it on my combat log. And this is not even discussion about normal trials. The perfected weapon are only in HM vet trial.

What set is that? Also, so it's great. You're saying that PvPers won't really have it then - then it doesn't matter that it's in vet HM. You won't see it in your death recap. Imperfect version will work just fine.

It was poisonous serpent (i think thats how it is called). The poison proc with 1s cd (it was nerfed with hotr).
And no, low availability is not solution in anything even resembling competitive environment.
I would rather have everyone using OP sets, than few chosen (by being very good in PVE or having very good PVE friends). And given the difference between perfect and imperfect, ZoS has the same thought about this.

jaws343 · October 2017

Koensol wrote: »

jaws343 wrote: »

The point of hitting the execute prior to 50% is the sheer venom proc. And hitting below 50 now adds ulti on top of sheer venom, plus the extra damage from execute.

Much more effective to use poison injection to proc sheer venom. That way you don't constantly refresh the dot.

That's a fair point. Opening with Poison Injection and reapplying it on cooldown while they are above 50% is probably more effective. But once they hit 50%, spamming the 2-hander execute is going to do great damage, gain increasingly more ultimate with each hit, and proc Sheer Venom every 6 seconds. It shouldn't refresh the dot with every hit due to the 6 second cooldown of Sheer Venom. You could actually make this even more ridiculous by adding a Viper 5 piece set instead of a monster set. 2 massive poison dots while using the two-handed execute on top of a Poison Injection dot.

IDK, I see a lot of great PVP potential with the synergy of the two-handed asylum weapon and existing sets.

Artis · October 2017

SodanTok wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

That joke is something majority of PVP never done. The best procset in the game was trial drop and in a year people had chance to use it and abuse it I have never ever even saw it on my combat log. And this is not even discussion about normal trials. The perfected weapon are only in HM vet trial.

What set is that? Also, so it's great. You're saying that PvPers won't really have it then - then it doesn't matter that it's in vet HM. You won't see it in your death recap. Imperfect version will work just fine.

It was poisonous serpent (i think thats how it is called). The poison proc with 1s cd (it was nerfed with hotr).
And no, low availability is not solution in anything even resembling competitive environment.
I would rather have everyone using OP sets, than few chosen (by being very good in PVE or having very good PVE friends). And given the difference between perfect and imperfect, ZoS has the same thought about this.

Ha, indeed it wasn't all over cyro unlike viper, red mountain, etc. The availability is not low. There are imperfect weapons which I assume will be owned by everyone very soon. If that new trial is as "difficult' as other normal trials. There's no few chosen problem. EVERYONE will have weapons providing those effects if they want to. Given the fact that there is difference between perfect and imperfect and that the latter drop from vet HM, zos's thought is that effort should be rewarded. Makes sense.

Derra · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

That joke is something majority of PVP never done. The best procset in the game was trial drop and in a year people had chance to use it and abuse it I have never ever even saw it on my combat log. And this is not even discussion about normal trials. The perfected weapon are only in HM vet trial.

What set is that? Also, so it's great. You're saying that PvPers won't really have it then - then it doesn't matter that it's in vet HM. You won't see it in your death recap. Imperfect version will work just fine.

It was poisonous serpent (i think thats how it is called). The poison proc with 1s cd (it was nerfed with hotr).
And no, low availability is not solution in anything even resembling competitive environment.
I would rather have everyone using OP sets, than few chosen (by being very good in PVE or having very good PVE friends). And given the difference between perfect and imperfect, ZoS has the same thought about this.

Ha, indeed it wasn't all over cyro unlike viper, red mountain, etc. The availability is not low. There are imperfect weapons which I assume will be owned by everyone very soon. If that new trial is as "difficult' as other normal trials. There's no few chosen problem. EVERYONE will have weapons providing those effects if they want to. Given the fact that there is difference between perfect and imperfect and that the latter drop from vet HM, zos's thought is that effort should be rewarded. Makes sense.

Only problem is when perfect is BIS for a certain builds and imperfect is not worth using at all in the same build bc zos in their wisdom decided to make a 50% difference between two weapons

That´s pointing towards a problem with that specific weapon.

pieratsos · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

That joke is something majority of PVP never done. The best procset in the game was trial drop and in a year people had chance to use it and abuse it I have never ever even saw it on my combat log. And this is not even discussion about normal trials. The perfected weapon are only in HM vet trial.

What set is that? Also, so it's great. You're saying that PvPers won't really have it then - then it doesn't matter that it's in vet HM. You won't see it in your death recap. Imperfect version will work just fine.

Derra wrote: »

Or is it desireable in your world that a few select players with obtain the perfected weapeons and wreak havoc in pvp with it upon the mere mortal fools not having them?

I´d rather have an even playing field where everyone has OP weapon X instead of only having the players that have the time to HM raid + pvp do it and have a significant advantage in pvp for pveing.

If it's just a few select players - then it won't be havoc. They will only fight that many players at a time and in group fight the effect won't be as significant.

An even playing field is in shooters and mobas. Even in chess whites have the advantage of the first move. MMORPGs are about progression and effort/reward.

If, for example, I'm PvPing AND PvEing competitively and you are only PvPing or only PvEing, why shouldn't I be rewarded more than you? I don't, but I imagine some people have time for both or have holidays etc,so they would have a reason to spend more time playing.

pieratsos wrote: »

Locking gear behind HM of the hardest trial in the game however isnt encouraging you to do PVE . Its the exact opposite. Its inaccessible to 99% of the players in the game if not more. So get off ur high horse with ur stupid comparisons. Its not the same. Not even close.

If you want to nerf normal weapons then u have to make the perfected ones accessible. Whether by doing PVP or with a token system in PVE for master, maelstrom, asylum weapons. You get tokens by completing vMA, vDSA and vet trials. You are still forcing PVP players to grind PVE which is still not the same with getting PVP skills in 3 hours but at least vMA is accessible to everyone if they have the skill to complete it. Or just get it over with and completely disable all those weapons in PVP. One less thing to worry about.

It' accessible to everyone. When the update is live, I can show you where the entrance is or post a screenshot of the map.

Now you get off your horse and let people get rewarded for putting tons of effort to complete that content. Including people who both PvE and PVP. Why shouldn't they be able to work towards that advantage over players who only PvP? And if only 1% will get there - then it's all good, they won't affect PvP situation much. It's nowhere near all those proctards that dominated Cyro and BGs for the past year or so?

Feeling entitled to have an advantage over people who dont even have the chance to acquire those weapons and you are telling me to get off my high horse. You took irony to a whole new level. And your attempt to make a joke out of its accessibility is as stupid as ur argument to lock those weapons behind that content.

How about from now on we lock BiS PVE gear behind top 2% PVP leaderboards because "those who PVP and PVE should be able to get an advantage over people who only PVE". Feel free and make a poll for it. Lets see how well people will take it and how many "gtfo" you get.

Derra · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Artis wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

That joke is something majority of PVP never done. The best procset in the game was trial drop and in a year people had chance to use it and abuse it I have never ever even saw it on my combat log. And this is not even discussion about normal trials. The perfected weapon are only in HM vet trial.

What set is that? Also, so it's great. You're saying that PvPers won't really have it then - then it doesn't matter that it's in vet HM. You won't see it in your death recap. Imperfect version will work just fine.

Derra wrote: »

Or is it desireable in your world that a few select players with obtain the perfected weapeons and wreak havoc in pvp with it upon the mere mortal fools not having them?

I´d rather have an even playing field where everyone has OP weapon X instead of only having the players that have the time to HM raid + pvp do it and have a significant advantage in pvp for pveing.

If it's just a few select players - then it won't be havoc. They will only fight that many players at a time and in group fight the effect won't be as significant.

An even playing field is in shooters and mobas. Even in chess whites have the advantage of the first move. MMORPGs are about progression and effort/reward.

If, for example, I'm PvPing AND PvEing competitively and you are only PvPing or only PvEing, why shouldn't I be rewarded more than you? I don't, but I imagine some people have time for both or have holidays etc,so they would have a reason to spend more time playing.

pieratsos wrote: »

Locking gear behind HM of the hardest trial in the game however isnt encouraging you to do PVE . Its the exact opposite. Its inaccessible to 99% of the players in the game if not more. So get off ur high horse with ur stupid comparisons. Its not the same. Not even close.

If you want to nerf normal weapons then u have to make the perfected ones accessible. Whether by doing PVP or with a token system in PVE for master, maelstrom, asylum weapons. You get tokens by completing vMA, vDSA and vet trials. You are still forcing PVP players to grind PVE which is still not the same with getting PVP skills in 3 hours but at least vMA is accessible to everyone if they have the skill to complete it. Or just get it over with and completely disable all those weapons in PVP. One less thing to worry about.

It' accessible to everyone. When the update is live, I can show you where the entrance is or post a screenshot of the map.

Now you get off your horse and let people get rewarded for putting tons of effort to complete that content. Including people who both PvE and PVP. Why shouldn't they be able to work towards that advantage over players who only PvP? And if only 1% will get there - then it's all good, they won't affect PvP situation much. It's nowhere near all those proctards that dominated Cyro and BGs for the past year or so?

Feeling entitled to have an advantage over people who dont even have the chance to acquire those weapons and you are telling me to get off my high horse. You took irony to a whole new level. And your attempt to make a joke out of its accessibility is as stupid as ur argument to lock those weapons behind that content.

How about from now on we lock BiS PVE gear behind top 2% PVP leaderboards because "those who PVP and PVE should be able to get an advantage over people who only PVE". Feel free and make a poll for it. Lets see how well people will take it and how many "gtfo" you get.

It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

Artis · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Feeling entitled to have an advantage over people who dont even have the chance to acquire those weapons and you are telling me to get off my high horse. You took irony to a whole new level. And your attempt to make a joke out of its accessibility is as stupid as ur argument to lock those weapons behind that content.

How about from now on we lock BiS PVE gear behind top 2% PVP leaderboards because "those who PVP and PVE should be able to get an advantage over people who only PVE". Feel free and make a poll for it. Lets see how well people will take it and how many "gtfo" you get.

Feeling entitled to get what people who put far more effort than you and you are telling me to get off my high horse? Pls. That's a complete opposite of entitlement. I'm saying that players who are ready to work more than you should get more than you.

If you think you trying to insult me makes you look better, you are wrong. In fact in just one paragraph you demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of: 1) how to lead discussions and how ad hominem is not the way to go, 2) how you don't know what entitlement means.

2% PvP leader boards is a dynamic number AND others are actively INTERFERING with your chances. In PvE content others are actively HELPING you. 2% PvP leaderboards = there's no set bar that you need to overcome. In PvE - there is. Just kill the things with fixed difficulty. If you suggested locking that gear behind a fixed amount of AP, I wouldn't mind and that would be a fair comparison. As of now you just keep demonstrating who really is stupid.

Derra wrote: »

It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

Oh, straight up lying now? All your question were addressed in the relevant thread. Go read it.

Or here it is again.

It's cool as long as it's gated behind a fixed requirement - you know what it takes to get it. And people who are ready to put effort in - get it as long as they met requirements.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors. If I only want to PvE and there's someone who wants to PvE and spends as much time as me but also wants to PvP and has time for that, too, then it's fair if he gets more stuff for more effort. PvE and PvP are interchangeable in that sentence.

Derra · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Feeling entitled to have an advantage over people who dont even have the chance to acquire those weapons and you are telling me to get off my high horse. You took irony to a whole new level. And your attempt to make a joke out of its accessibility is as stupid as ur argument to lock those weapons behind that content.

How about from now on we lock BiS PVE gear behind top 2% PVP leaderboards because "those who PVP and PVE should be able to get an advantage over people who only PVE". Feel free and make a poll for it. Lets see how well people will take it and how many "gtfo" you get.

Feeling entitled to get what people who put far more effort than you and you are telling me to get off my high horse? Pls. That's a complete opposite of entitlement. I'm saying that players who are ready to work more than you should get more than you.

If you think you trying to insult me makes you look better, you are wrong. In fact in just one paragraph you demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of: 1) how to lead discussions and how ad hominem is not the way to go, 2) how you don't know what entitlement means.

2% PvP leader boards is a dynamic number AND others are actively INTERFERING with your chances. In PvE content others are actively HELPING you. 2% PvP leaderboards = there's no set bar that you need to overcome. In PvE - there is. Just kill the things with fixed difficulty. If you suggested locking that gear behind a fixed amount of AP, I wouldn't mind and that would be a fair comparison. As of now you just keep demonstrating who really is stupid.

Derra wrote: »

It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

Oh, straight up lying now? All your question were addressed in the relevant thread. Go read it.

Or here it is again.

It's cool as long as it's gated behind a fixed requirement - you know what it takes to get it. And people who are ready to put effort in - get it as long as they met requirements.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors. If I only want to PvE and there's someone who wants to PvE and spends as much time as me but also wants to PvP and has time for that, too, then it's fair if he gets more stuff for more effort. PvE and PvP are interchangeable in that sentence.

"It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors."

But then justifies why bis pve should not drop in pvp with:

"2% PvP leader boards is a dynamic number AND others are actively INTERFERING with your chances. "

Sadly for not realizing that for pve other players are also interfering with your chances because you need them to even start playing the content.

Artis · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

No straight up lying. You never gave an answer - and you´re still not giving one.

I did. Multiple times. And one more is right in your quote.
Again.

Q:It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

A:It's cool as long as it's gated behind any fixed requirement, i.e. you know what it takes to get it. And people who are ready to put effort in will get it as long as they meet requirements.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors. If I only want to PvE and there's someone who wants to PvE and spends as much time as me but also wants to PvP and has time for that, too, then it's fair if he gets more stuff for more effort. PvE and PvP are interchangeable in that sentence. Can be gated behind the stuff I like or dislike - doesn't matter.

What exactly isn't addressed?

Juhasow · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Juhasow · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

why should those weapons be inaccesable for pvp-players? everyone can go and do pve content as long he has the specific DLC. if you mean by inaccesable, that it is in pve end content, so what. being a pvp-player doesnt mean to be bad at pve. if you are a bad tank, healer or dd, then so be it, then its not ZoS fault, that items are "inaccesable" for you. actually most pvp players are decent pvers. they all can get into an end content playing guild. anyway the 2h weapon is slightly worse than the perfect one, so another reason for easy getting for everyone. this thread isnt about that the weapon is only found in pve, its about the strenght of the item itself and the difference between perfect weapon and not perfect. so pls stop complain about the doing pve content.

PvE endgame content fits the definition of "inaccessible" because it requires 12 people to run.

Some people only play during the daytime. Some can only play for 30 to 60 minute intervals because they have other obligations to take care of every now and then.

I don´t know any endgame raiding guild that does not raid on schedule of atleast two evenings a week for atleast 3 hours straight. That alone is an impossible requirement to meet for some players.
I don´t know any raiding guild that would accept a player that has to afk an 45min to hour into the raid for 10 to 15 minutes or that´s raiding during daytime.
So "get into an end content playing guild" isn´t just as simple as you would like it to be.

Now you might argue - well then they simply can´t aquire it and eso isn´t the game for them. But that´s what i think is wrong.
Esos endgame pvp gear never required you to run 12 man content so far. It was entirely possible to get bis setups without ever having stepped foot into that content.
This means for the past 3 years pvp players were very much able to alway aquire desired BIS gear for themselves. This no longer being the case is basically a 180° turn in esos gearing policy.
PvP players rightfully complain about such a change.

You can find 11 people at any time given for normal trial faster then smallscale in PvP.

Juhasow · October 2017

Xsorus wrote: »

Doesn't sound overpowered.

Sounds fairly balanced....and to be honest this sounds like the whines I heard about VMA Two Hander before it went live

"Oh the 10k dot over 5 seconds is super Overpowered!"

never mind it was really 5k, and then you reduced it further by armor......

Basically made that weapon *** except for the weapon damage bonus because people didn't understand how PvP worked.

It was 15k DoT on PTS. It was OP.

Derra · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

No straight up lying. You never gave an answer - and you´re still not giving one.

I did. Multiple times. And one more is right in your quote.
Again.

Q:It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

A:It's cool as long as it's gated behind any fixed requirement, i.e. you know what it takes to get it. And people who are ready to put effort in will get it as long as they meet requirements.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors. If I only want to PvE and there's someone who wants to PvE and spends as much time as me but also wants to PvP and has time for that, too, then it's fair if he gets more stuff for more effort. PvE and PvP are interchangeable in that sentence. Can be gated behind the stuff I like or dislike - doesn't matter.

What exactly isn't addressed?

Like i said. The requirement for pve has other players passively restricting me because they don´t match my schedule.

You can talk about fixed requirements all you want. If the content does not allow for participation in the first place because the starting requirement is dynamic thats just as bad as having other players dynamically interfere with your result.

Your argument is valid for solo content - not for grouped content. Other players very much meet the criteria of a dynamic requirement for content.
In pvp they can have more time than you. In pve they can simply be not available. It´s the same resource limiting your results.

Edit: I´d even argue that it would be more fair in pvp - as that atleast partially allows you to overcome the deficite of having less time by being better than other players.

pieratsos · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Feeling entitled to have an advantage over people who dont even have the chance to acquire those weapons and you are telling me to get off my high horse. You took irony to a whole new level. And your attempt to make a joke out of its accessibility is as stupid as ur argument to lock those weapons behind that content.

How about from now on we lock BiS PVE gear behind top 2% PVP leaderboards because "those who PVP and PVE should be able to get an advantage over people who only PVE". Feel free and make a poll for it. Lets see how well people will take it and how many "gtfo" you get.

Feeling entitled to get what people who put far more effort than you and you are telling me to get off my high horse? Pls. That's a complete opposite of entitlement. I'm saying that players who are ready to work more than you should get more than you.

If you think you trying to insult me makes you look better, you are wrong. In fact in just one paragraph you demonstrated a complete lack of knowledge of: 1) how to lead discussions and how ad hominem is not the way to go, 2) how you don't know what entitlement means.

2% PvP leader boards is a dynamic number AND others are actively INTERFERING with your chances. In PvE content others are actively HELPING you. 2% PvP leaderboards = there's no set bar that you need to overcome. In PvE - there is. Just kill the things with fixed difficulty. If you suggested locking that gear behind a fixed amount of AP, I wouldn't mind and that would be a fair comparison. As of now you just keep demonstrating who really is stupid.

Derra wrote: »

It´s cool as long it´s geargated behind the stuff i like. Pointed that out multiple times. Never got a reply adressing that.

Oh, straight up lying now? All your question were addressed in the relevant thread. Go read it.

Or here it is again.

It's cool as long as it's gated behind a fixed requirement - you know what it takes to get it. And people who are ready to put effort in - get it as long as they met requirements.

It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors. If I only want to PvE and there's someone who wants to PvE and spends as much time as me but also wants to PvP and has time for that, too, then it's fair if he gets more stuff for more effort. PvE and PvP are interchangeable in that sentence.

You are not getting an advantage over other people because you put in more work than them. You get an advantage over people because they cant even do that content. Thats the definition of entitlement. They are not working more than you. You just cant work for it at all. If vMA weapons were given in normal you'd have a point. Because vMA is accessible to everyone since its solo and only those who work for it should get them. You are the one demonstrating complete lack of knowledge since you still dont understand that while i and others actually suggested 3 other solutions better than the one we have now because its fixing the accessibility issue and then nerfing the normal weapons shouldnt be an issue so people should actually have to work for powerful weapons. How is that for entitlement?

As far as PVP leaderboards is concerned, competing with other people is the difficulty. Thats the bar that you need to overcome. You need to overcome other people that also try to overcome you. You compete with them. That same concept already exists in PVE and you get rewarded for it. Its called PVE leaderboards and other people are also interfering with your chances. Should we take the rewards out of them too?

You dont understand what people tell you, you have ur own justification of what difficulty is or should be and when you should get rewards in PVP while you completely ignore that the exact same concept already exists in PVE and you already get rewarded for it. And you are talking about stupidity? Joke is on you.

pieratsos · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

Sixty5 · October 2017

Honestly, I'd say the Asylum 2h is a good thing for pvp. It adds power to small scale players without buffing up the zergs.

It won't add much to toxic builds like s+b permablock tanks, since you actually have to deal execute damage to get the ulti. And Mr 40k hp DK isn't going to get to that point on any decent player.

The fact that the difference is small between perfected and imperfect doesn't seem like much of an issue. As I would also say that the imperfect gear is really just more of an incentive to get people running trials again, and pvp players need a little more incentive than most.

Derra · October 2017

Sixty5 wrote: »

Honestly, I'd say the Asylum 2h is a good thing for pvp. It adds power to small scale players without buffing up the zergs.

It won't add much to toxic builds like s+b permablock tanks, since you actually have to deal execute damage to get the ulti. And Mr 40k hp DK isn't going to get to that point on any decent player.

The fact that the difference is small between perfected and imperfect doesn't seem like much of an issue. As I would also say that the imperfect gear is really just more of an incentive to get people running trials again, and pvp players need a little more incentive than most.

Tanks with the new maelstrom + asylum 1h shield are gonna be a whole new topic once people fought them on live

Juhasow · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

If You want BiS then You should deserve it.

Derra · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

Actually most weapons are below 12% difference: 1h shield 10%, bow 11%, resto 11%, 2h 6.7% the exception are dw 25% as of 3.2.3 reduced to 20% difference and destro 50% (25% pre change - that was most likely due to 4s and 5s not allowing for a smaller difference).
So there is more a ~10% difference "rule" with dw being an oversight and the destro change being a not well thoughtout design decision made in one week.

If were going by the average then the difference on destro and dw has to be reduced instead of being increased for the others...

Also since gear is by design usable in pvp and pve any pve gear is automatically pvp gear - as is the other way around.

Gilvoth · October 2017

it's fine the way it is, i say, "let it happen as is"

pieratsos · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

If You want BiS then You should deserve it.

And yet again you completely ignore the question people ask and you repeat the same things again and again.

If i want BiS i should deserve it. I couldnt agree more. But for people to show that they deserve it, they need to have access to that content. It was explained about a million times so far. Which part do u still not understand?

Its both PVP and PVE weapon. I didnt say it wont be good in PVE. Read again. I said i dont know if it will be good in PVE. Thats why i am not asking to make it inaccessible for either PVE or PVP players. All players should have access.

Enough with the usual " PVP players QQ" and all the other bs and just answer the damn questions.
Why do you think its fine to lock BiS PVP gear behind content inaccessible to PVP players?
And do you think its right to lock PVE gear behind content inaccessible to PVE players like top 2% PVP leaderboards for example?

Artis · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

"It doesn't matter what I like or don't like. If I want to compete - I need to match other competitors."

But then justifies why bis pve should not drop in pvp with:

"2% PvP leader boards is a dynamic number AND others are actively INTERFERING with your chances. "

Sadly for not realizing that for pve other players are also interfering with your chances because you need them to even start playing the content.

Again, it doesn't matter what I like or dislike. Competition can be deeper than requiring just 1 type of content. Like for example people who are trying to get all achievement points have to do everything.

Nope, players aren't interfering with anything in PvE. The lack of them does. But if no one is doing the content , then gear that no one has is not a big deal. And if gear is desirable enough - find players or a group to play with. Either way - everyone is in the same conditions.

Derra wrote: »

Like i said. The requirement for pve has other players passively restricting me because they don´t match my schedule.

You can talk about fixed requirements all you want. If the content does not allow for participation in the first place because the starting requirement is dynamic thats just as bad as having other players dynamically interfere with your result.

Your argument is valid for solo content - not for grouped content. Other players very much meet the criteria of a dynamic requirement for content.
In pvp they can have more time than you. In pve they can simply be not available. It´s the same resource limiting your results.

Edit: I´d even argue that it would be more fair in pvp - as that atleast partially allows you to overcome the deficite of having less time by being better than other players.

Like you said editing the post after I already answered? Not sure why "LIke I said" is needed if obviously I couldn't read it because it wasn't there.

Passively restricting you? Sure. It's also passively restricting other competitors. Everyone is in the same conditions. It's a part of the game. Like I said, the problem is when other players actively interfering with you getting stuff. Passively ? Now that's something you can in principle and thus is a moot point.

No, it's valid period. The criteria is static, not dynamic. That's the whole point. You need 11 other people for trials or 3 for dungeons. These numbers are always the same. The group needs to be able to deal X DPS and survive Y DPS. Those numbers are fixed, too.

More time than you and not available are two completely different things. More time with you = they actively don't let you get somewhere. Not available? You can find others who are. Either way, all you need is meet known requirements that are the same today and tomorrow. Getting into top 2% can have different requirements every week depending on others. Like, what are you arguing with? Percentage vs Flat value. Flat value is constant. Percentage depends on things.

Solo content has its own rewards. Being better than other players is also rewarding in different ways. Meeting other players that play during the same times as you to complete group content/objectives has always been a part of MMORPGs. It requires extra effort on top of being good and therefore deserve to be rewarded more. It's also good for the game since groups is where bonds between players are formed and some players are more likely to log on when they have someone to play with and enjoy the time spent together.

pieratsos wrote: »

You are not getting an advantage over other people because you put in more work than them. You get an advantage over people because they cant even do that content. Thats the definition of entitlement. They are not working more than you. You just cant work for it at all. If vMA weapons were given in normal you'd have a point. Because vMA is accessible to everyone since its solo and only those who work for it should get them. You are the one demonstrating complete lack of knowledge since you still dont understand that while i and others actually suggested 3 other solutions better than the one we have now because its fixing the accessibility issue and then nerfing the normal weapons shouldnt be an issue so people should actually have to work for powerful weapons. How is that for entitlement?

As far as PVP leaderboards is concerned, competing with other people is the difficulty. Thats the bar that you need to overcome. You need to overcome other people that also try to overcome you. You compete with them. That same concept already exists in PVE and you get rewarded for it. Its called PVE leaderboards and other people are also interfering with your chances. Should we take the rewards out of them too?

You dont understand what people tell you, you have ur own justification of what difficulty is or should be and when you should get rewards in PVP while you completely ignore that the exact same concept already exists in PVE and you already get rewarded for it. And you are talking about stupidity? Joke is on you.

Yes you are. It's a fact. They do content A, you do content A and put in effort to find people to do content B, get good to complete it, and complete it. Obviously, you put in more work than them.

Also, yes they can do the content. The requirements are static. The entrances to dungeons are known, if not - I can show them. Go there and meet requirements I had to meet. That's not the definition of entitlement. Entitlement implies you want to get stuff you haven't worked for. Now what you suggest IS described by that. If they can't do some content (and as a consequence don't do it) that I do, then I deserve to be rewarded more.

None of your solutions rewards someone who puts in way more effort. If someone bothers to spend time needed to complete vet HM , then he/she should have stuff someone who won't bother completing it can't have. That's fair.

As far as pvp leader boards concerned the requirements to be there are dynamic. As for pve leaderboards - sure, let's remove rewards from there. They don't give any exclusive gear anyway. They just give some extra gear that you can get in those trials anyway. Just like PvP leader boards actually. Now adding weapons you can't get without getting to a leader board would be a bad idea, but that is not happening so far, so it's all good.

Yes, I understand what people tell me. And no, you are the one who started talking about stupidity and you keep demonstrating your superiority in it. No, PvE doesn't have the exact same concept you suggest. In fact, PvE and PvP both have the same concept - they both have leader boards and both leader boards just give you more of the gear that you have a chance of getting without being on a leader board.

pieratsos wrote: »

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

It's accessible. I can show you where to go. Requirements are static and known. All you need to do is meet them. Unlike in PvP where other players actively play against you thus making requirements dynamic. Now if it was rewarded for PvP content with a static requirement (like rewards for the worthy that you get every X AP), then it would be ok. Would've attracted more PvE players to Cyrodiil, too. Actually, they definitely should do it.

Derra wrote: »

Also since gear is by design usable in pvp and pve any pve gear is automatically pvp gear - as is the other way around.

And therefore it cant' be defined and distinguished so there's no pve and no pvp gear. There is just gear.

pieratsos wrote: »

And yet again you completely ignore the question people ask and you repeat the same things again and again.

If i want BiS i should deserve it. I couldnt agree more. But for people to show that they deserve it, they need to have access to that content. It was explained about a million times so far. Which part do u still not understand?

Its both PVP and PVE weapon. I didnt say it wont be good in PVE. Read again. I said i dont know if it will be good in PVE. Thats why i am not asking to make it inaccessible for either PVE or PVP players. All players should have access.

Enough with the usual " PVP players QQ" and all the other bs and just answer the damn questions.
Why do you think its fine to lock BiS PVP gear behind content inaccessible to PVP players?
And do you think its right to lock PVE gear behind content inaccessible to PVE players like top 2% PVP leaderboards for example?

Sigh you are the one who doesn't understand and you don't even think - you are just ranting and repeating the same thing.

There is A HUGE difference IN PRINCIPLE between top 2% leaderboards and PvE content. Leader boards (any) are dynamic, so no gear should be locked behind them at all. Which is the case right now and it should stay that way. Nothing you get out of leaderboards can't be got another way. Now in PvE requirements are static - deal X dps as a group, survive Y dps, complete this and this mechanics.

That's all. All content is accessible to everyone who has corresponding DLCs/chapters bought.

pieratsos · October 2017

@Artis

Advocates for weapons being rewarded only to those who deserve it/work for it and at the same time says that they should be rewarded from rewards of the worthy but not from vMA, vDSA and vet trials. Because obviously spending 10 minutes in cyro is more effort than some of the hardest PVE content in the game.

*Facepalm*
Yeah i think we are done here.

Juhasow · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

If You want BiS then You should deserve it.

And yet again you completely ignore the question people ask and you repeat the same things again and again.

If i want BiS i should deserve it. I couldnt agree more. But for people to show that they deserve it, they need to have access to that content. It was explained about a million times so far. Which part do u still not understand?

Its both PVP and PVE weapon. I didnt say it wont be good in PVE. Read again. I said i dont know if it will be good in PVE. Thats why i am not asking to make it inaccessible for either PVE or PVP players. All players should have access.

Enough with the usual " PVP players QQ" and all the other bs and just answer the damn questions.
Why do you think its fine to lock BiS PVP gear behind content inaccessible to PVP players?
And do you think its right to lock PVE gear behind content inaccessible to PVE players like top 2% PVP leaderboards for example?

I think I answered Your question. If You dont see the answer it's Your problem. Comparing PvP leaderboards to trials is stupid because we all know that even casual players can have top scores in leaderboards if they'll zerg enough whole days. It's like comparing 1vX to Xv1. Both ends up killing people but 1st requires more skill.

Also why You're still saying "inaccesible for PvP players" ? Beeing PvP player doesnt mean veteran or Hard Mode in trials is inaccesible for You. It'll just take practice and skill. Beeing lazy PvP player means You'll propably QQ that Asylum imperfected 2h should be almosts same strong as Perfected one , because You're too lazy to get good and get perfected one.

You're trying to create false reality where PvP player cant get BiS weapon. In that case how is it possible so many PvP players have Maesltorm weapons ? Isnt that content also inaccesible for them because it's PvE and it's hard ?

Juhasow · October 2017

Derra wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

Actually most weapons are below 12% difference: 1h shield 10%, bow 11%, resto 11%, 2h 6.7% the exception are dw 25% as of 3.2.3 reduced to 20% difference and destro 50% (25% pre change - that was most likely due to 4s and 5s not allowing for a smaller difference).
So there is more a ~10% difference "rule" with dw being an oversight and the destro change being a not well thoughtout design decision made in one week.

If were going by the average then the difference on destro and dw has to be reduced instead of being increased for the others...

Also since gear is by design usable in pvp and pve any pve gear is automatically pvp gear - as is the other way around.

6,7 is still less then 10-12. It should be lowered down to 12 looking as how strong weapon can be and *** easy to obtain it'll be. And lets be honest 12 it's not end of the world but makes Imperfected version fairly tuned down. Only change I would accept is maybe making Perfected version having chance to drop from vet version not just HM because in fact HM can be too tough for PvP playersbase and can too much time to get BiS weapon. Still it should require effort to get BiS considering normal mode is easy mode and noone will want to go on vet if everyone can get most usefull weapon from normal. That's stripping hard game end content from rewards.

Artis · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

@Artis

Advocates for weapons being rewarded only to those who deserve it/work for it and at the same time says that they should be rewarded from rewards of the worthy but not from vMA, vDSA and vet trials. Because obviously spending 10 minutes in cyro is more effort than some of the hardest PVE content in the game.

*Facepalm*
Yeah i think we are done here.

I advocate for everything in life being reward to those who work for it. Also, work on your reading comprehension. That's not what I said. I said that your 2% of leader board is a dynamic requirement and shouldn't give gear that you can't get in rewards for the worthy. Just like vMA, vDSA and vet trials leader boards don't give you gear you can't get in those dungeons.

Do you not see? PvE leader boards - just give extra gear on top of what you can loot without leader boards. Want top 2% of pvp leader board to give gear? No, not the same thing, unless you can get those gear in reward for the worthy or buy it straight for AP.

Glad you admit that the hardest PvE content should give rewards cyro shouldn't, though.

pieratsos · October 2017

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

if people want to say something about the gear policy, especially about asylum weapons, then they should do that in the right thread about that. this thread was started to discuss only the 2h weapon and its ability.

No, this thread was started to nerf the normal weapon that is only good in PVP, and make it inaccessible to PVP players.

No this thread have nothing to do with making imperfect weapon inaccesible in PvP. You could still get them but imperfect version should be weaker from perfect one by around 20-30% not 7%. Also You dont know how good it'll be in PvE so I would reconsider that statement.

Making the difference between them so big only makes the perfected BiS. And the perfected one is inaccessible. Get it now?

No i dont know how it will be in PVE. It could be BiS in both PVP and PVE. Thats why i am not asking to lock it behind content that is inaccessible for PVE players. The question is why do you feel its ok to lock BiS PVP gear behind content that is inaccessible to PVP players?

1st of all who said it's PvP gear ? It's obtainable from PvE content and it can only be used in PvP but that doesnt make it PvP weapon. You dont know will that be good In PvE and there are certain bosses with long execute phases where it can actually be good.

2nd why this certain weapon have 7% difference between imperfected and perfected version when other have 25-50% difference ? It's unfair because this is one of more useful weapons of all Asylum ones.

I feel if there is 25-50% rule for every weapon then there shouldnt be exceptions. Why people would have to go for another of this weapons on HM but not in case of 2 hander. Also yes perfected weapons should be BiS as reward for effort of taking part in hardest contest. Lets be honest lowering ultimate gain in imperfected version down to 11 ulti is not end of the world and wouldnt make perfected version brainlesly OP and imperfected one trash but would ballance things. It's obvious PvP players will QQ about everything good they need to get from PvE. Similar thing is happening right now with maesltorm weapons changes.

If You want BiS then You should deserve it.

And yet again you completely ignore the question people ask and you repeat the same things again and again.

If i want BiS i should deserve it. I couldnt agree more. But for people to show that they deserve it, they need to have access to that content. It was explained about a million times so far. Which part do u still not understand?

Its both PVP and PVE weapon. I didnt say it wont be good in PVE. Read again. I said i dont know if it will be good in PVE. Thats why i am not asking to make it inaccessible for either PVE or PVP players. All players should have access.

Enough with the usual " PVP players QQ" and all the other bs and just answer the damn questions.
Why do you think its fine to lock BiS PVP gear behind content inaccessible to PVP players?
And do you think its right to lock PVE gear behind content inaccessible to PVE players like top 2% PVP leaderboards for example?

I think I answered Your question. If You dont see the answer it's Your problem. Comparing PvP leaderboards to trials is stupid because we all know that even casual players can have top scores in leaderboards if they'll zerg enough whole days. It's like comparing 1vX to Xv1. Both ends up killing people but 1st requires more skill.

Also why You're still saying "inaccesible for PvP players" ? Beeing PvP player doesnt mean veteran or Hard Mode in trials is inaccesible for You. It'll just take practice and skill. Beeing lazy PvP player means You'll propably QQ that Asylum imperfected 2h should be almosts same strong as Perfected one , because You're too lazy to get good and get perfected one.

You're trying to create false reality where PvP player cant get BiS weapon. In that case how is it possible so many PvP players have Maesltorm weapons ? Isnt that content also inaccesible for them ?

Because vMA IS accessible to PVP players. Thats why. Accessibility and difficulty are not always the same thing.
Before you call people lazy you better read what they tell you. I literally told you that u can nerf those weapons as long you can acquire them by vMA, vDSA, vet trials so it can be accessible to all types of players. vMA and HM trials are not the same and no, it has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the content. vMA could be 100 times harder than asylum HM and it would still be more accessible. vMA Is solo content, they can do it whenever they like and those that actually put in the work and can complete it should be rewarded.

I am not trying to create a false reality where PVP players cant get BiS weapons. You are the one living in the false reality where PVP players are doing hardcore raiding like PVE players.

And the issue with locking it behind PVP leaderboards isnt the skill (although i do agree with that statement). Its that you'd have to do PVP every single day to be able to get in there. Thats by definition inaccessible to all PVE players cause no one would do it. No matter how easy or hard it is.

Gear locked behind PVP leaderboards should only be used in PVP. Gear locked behind PVE HM trials should only be used in PVE. Not because of difficulty. But because of accessibility.

Artis · October 2017

pieratsos wrote: »

Because vMA IS accessible to PVP players. Thats why. Accessibility and difficulty are not always the same thing.
Before you call people lazy you better read what they tell you. I literally told you that u can nerf those weapons as long you can acquire them by vMA, vDSA, vet trials so it can be accessible to all types of players. vMA and HM trials are not the same and no, it has nothing to do with the actual difficulty of the content. vMA could be 100 times harder than asylum HM and it would still be more accessible. vMA Is solo content, they can do it whenever they like and those that actually put in the work and can complete it should be rewarded.

I am not trying to create a false reality where PVP players cant get BiS weapons. You are the one living in the false reality where PVP players are doing hardcore raiding like PVE players.

And the issue with locking it behind PVP leaderboards isnt the skill (although i do agree with that statement). Its that you'd have to do PVP every single day to be able to get in there. Thats by definition inaccessible to all PVE players cause no one would do it. No matter how easy or hard it is.

Every dungeon is accessible to all types of players. The requirements are the same for everyone. Unless you can show me a pvp player's card that specifically says you can't go somewhere. I play PvP and I personally entered and completed every existing dungeon.

Solo vs group is a weak argument. Every player is in the same conditions and has to look for group. PvE players also can do vMA whenever they like and can't do trials whenever they like.

The issue with locking it behind pvp leader boards is that the requirements to get those rewards wouldn't be static. Inaccessible is not synonymous to no one would do it. No one would it = lazy or don't want it enough. If there is will, there is way.

pieratsos wrote: »

Gear locked behind PVP leaderboards should only be used in PVP. Gear locked behind PVE HM trials should only be used in PVE. Not because of difficulty. But because of accessibility.

No.

Competition can be deeper than that having rewards for pve/pvp rewarded for doing the counter parts.

pieratsos · October 2017

Artis wrote: »

Now if it was rewarded for PvP content with a static requirement (like rewards for the worthy that you get every X AP), then it would be ok. Would've attracted more PvE players to Cyrodiil, too. Actually, they definitely should do it.

I can read just fine.

And btw you can get into PVE leaderboards that reward you with perfect weapons by doing vet mode which doesnt reward you with perfect weapons.

And yes i dont want BiS weapons to be rewarded from rewards of the worthy. For me, deserving/working for something actually means doing something good/hard and you get rewarded for it. Unlike you spending 10 minutes in cyro doesnt mean that you worked or you deserve BiS gear because of the stupid reasoning "its static requirements". And im prety happy that my standards about deserving BiS gear are not as low as yours.