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PTS Patch Notes Preview: Combat changes that will be in on Monday

  • Crom_CCCXVI
    Crom_CCCXVI
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    THE PROBLEM WITH PLAYER FEEDBACK..

    is most of the players giving feedback are already playing the META, so your getting whining about how the most powerful class isn't powerful enough.
  • kookster
    kookster
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    I am not liking the idea of shuffle requiring 5 medium. I have been trying to use my build without it on live to see how it goes, my only 2 alternatives for removing snares, are purge, and forward momentum. After some testing on live I have come to the following conclusions:

    Purge: Costs WAY too much to be used on a stam build, you can use the efficient one once? maybe twice? It did not work well at all, especially against templars since so many of their abilities snare you.

    Forward Momentum: This ability is even better at removing and keeping snares off you. The only problem is on classes like stamDK you only have 2 good stam heals, vigor, and rally when using 2h. So if you use Forward Momentum it is MUCH harder to stay alive, cause at this point you literally only have one heal. And don't you dare tell anyone to use green dragon blood. That skill still sucks.
    Ebonheart Pact - PC NA
  • templesus
    templesus
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    kookster wrote: »
    I am not liking the idea of shuffle requiring 5 medium. I have been trying to use my build without it on live to see how it goes, my only 2 alternatives for removing snares, are purge, and forward momentum. After some testing on live I have come to the following conclusions:

    Purge: Costs WAY too much to be used on a stam build, you can use the efficient one once? maybe twice? It did not work well at all, especially against templars since so many of their abilities snare you.

    Forward Momentum: This ability is even better at removing and keeping snares off you. The only problem is on classes like stamDK you only have 2 good stam heals, vigor, and rally when using 2h. So if you use Forward Momentum it is MUCH harder to stay alive, cause at this point you literally only have one heal. And don't you dare tell anyone to use green dragon blood. That skill still sucks.

    L2P issue. If you’re to stubborn to go medium then by all means stay in heavy so I can permasnare you. And none of that “medium gets hit too hard” bs it’s just a straight l2p issue if you can’t survive in medium.
  • Ocelot9x
    Ocelot9x
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    1) No medium armor fixes (you still get oneshot'd by undodgeable combos)

    2) No permablocking fixes,people will still be able to permablock for hours while block casting heals. GG

    2) Medium armor getting a nerf.+10% recovery reduction,smart idea guys keep going.

    Seriously PvP is so slow and tedious those days and it seems like nothing will change for the next 4 months.
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    If they really want better combat...

    increase the base damage of all attacks by 33% (not procs or ults) and reduce champ point effects by 75%, and you would be pretty much back to when the game had a great PvP population, with all kinds of builds as compared to today where you have one server where everyone is on a sheild stacking Sorc or a no death tank.

    And you'd break no CP servers

  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
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    Siphoning changes are so dumb, some genius is gonna start running a 4 man with 100 pts in Siphoning for all 4. And there goes any semblance of skill that was still remaining in PvP. That equals 100% regen debuff for whoever they light attack. I always thought siphoning was a bull**** tree and now its zergling purpose will be truly realized.

    ZOS: "We noticed that some of you still seem to think that skill and positioning will allow you to fight outnumbered vs scrubs. Well those scrubs are our number one customer so think again."
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • Xsorus
    Xsorus
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    Siphoning changes are so dumb, some genius is gonna start running a 4 man with 100 pts in Siphoning for all 4. And there goes any semblance of skill that was still remaining in PvP. That equals 100% regen debuff for whoever they light attack. I always thought siphoning was a bull**** tree and now its zergling purpose will be truly realized.

    ZOS: "We noticed that some of you still seem to think that skill and positioning will allow you to fight outnumbered vs scrubs. Well those scrubs are our number one customer so think again."

    Does it stack?
  • Dredlord
    Dredlord
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    STEVIL wrote: »
    The armor 5pc one is a thing i have to mull over. My gut is telling me quite a few sets just got a bit of stupid added to them.

    i would have preferred a more staged shift - like say increase the armor ability costs but then reduce them for each piece of the matching armor worn.



    sigh.

    Awe you need your helicoptor parents to swoop in and make the transition easy for you....

    Cute.
    Edited by Dredlord on October 1, 2017 2:23AM
  • dpencil1
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    My suggestion, instead of 3 distinct skill LINES based on the trinity roles:
    Add a 3rd morph to all skills and rework all current morphs, so that for each skill there is a variety of "roles" the skill can perform in. Some skills could be 2 types of dps morph and one more support/cc oriented. Others could be a couple support/healing oriented morphs and one that's a dps buff. While others could have a straight dps/tank/heal morph choice.

    This could also open more options for magicka tanking and stamina healing.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    Siphoning changes are so dumb, some genius is gonna start running a 4 man with 100 pts in Siphoning for all 4. And there goes any semblance of skill that was still remaining in PvP. That equals 100% regen debuff for whoever they light attack. I always thought siphoning was a bull**** tree and now its zergling purpose will be truly realized.

    ZOS: "We noticed that some of you still seem to think that skill and positioning will allow you to fight outnumbered vs scrubs. Well those scrubs are our number one customer so think again."

    does this mean we want cost reduction back.kind of souds asa if.
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
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    Xsorus wrote: »
    Siphoning changes are so dumb, some genius is gonna start running a 4 man with 100 pts in Siphoning for all 4. And there goes any semblance of skill that was still remaining in PvP. That equals 100% regen debuff for whoever they light attack. I always thought siphoning was a bull**** tree and now its zergling purpose will be truly realized.

    ZOS: "We noticed that some of you still seem to think that skill and positioning will allow you to fight outnumbered vs scrubs. Well those scrubs are our number one customer so think again."

    Does it stack?

    As of right now on PTS they actually don't stack, sorry for the confusion. I am very grateful for that.
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • WreckfulAbandon
    WreckfulAbandon
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    Siphoning changes are so dumb, some genius is gonna start running a 4 man with 100 pts in Siphoning for all 4. And there goes any semblance of skill that was still remaining in PvP. That equals 100% regen debuff for whoever they light attack. I always thought siphoning was a bull**** tree and now its zergling purpose will be truly realized.

    ZOS: "We noticed that some of you still seem to think that skill and positioning will allow you to fight outnumbered vs scrubs. Well those scrubs are our number one customer so think again."

    does this mean we want cost reduction back.kind of souds asa if.

    Sorry, not fake news, but a mistake :p

    I was about to uninstall if they stacked.
    PC NA

    All my comments are regarding PvP
  • exeeter702
    exeeter702
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    cmetzger93 wrote: »
    I for one am super excited that they are wanting to make all classes able to fill each role!

    why the hell?

    Because an mmo with only 5 classes and 3 roles where only 1 of the 5 classes is suitable for tanking and another for healing is an extraordinarily pathetic prospect for an mmo that touts veriety and flexibility.
  • f047ys3v3n
    f047ys3v3n
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    baratron wrote: »
    From ESO Live today:

    The Warden has 3 clearly-defined class lines: one for each of the game's roles. ZOS want to gradually make all classes like this - so Siphoning will become the NB Healing line. With this in mind, ZOS changed Agony to Malevolent Offering. It uses your HP to heal allies – a heal which doesn't cost Magicka or Stamina. However once you started it, you couldn't shut it off and newer players were killing themselves. So now it has an upfront HP cost. You can't use it if you don't have enough health.

    I'm also a little curious how this is to play on the NB. NB currently has one tree that basically does the majority of both heals and damage in siphoning. The other two trees, assassination and shadow, have a mix of things that include some CC's, a few damage skills, a few skills intended to be burst from stealth that ZOS likes to nerf, a stealth that very occasionally works, and some things nobody can figure out what to do with. I am not sure how you make all this into a heals, dps, and tank tree.

    Similarly, sorc doesn't line up at all well with the heals, dps and tank tree thinking as it pretty much just has 1 self heal, a lot of dps, a few CC's and 1 tanking skill. Even the DK and Temp lines, that do line up a bit closer are still far off.

    In the end, this looks to me like an idea they didn't spend much time on. Trying to shoehorn all these existing classes into the warden pattern, a pattern that players have not taken to I might add, could be disastrous. Scratch that, it will be disastrous and will also beg the question of why you should bother with different classes at all when you will end up making them all basically the same. That is the one question here that might have merit. At least it had merit back in 2014 when it was commonly discussed on the forums. Now, we are way to far down the road to be having any of this discussion.

    Yes I am deeply embarrassed to still be playing this game. I know better.
  • Oompuh
    Oompuh
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    Wow, RIP Tava's Favor for Tanking. Another fallen tank set
    Xbox NA - Oompa
    Khajiit DK Tank
    Founder of Major Aegis
    Main Tank of Dissonant Crusade Uprising Savages
  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Minno wrote: »
    - Sorcs:
    Daedric Summoning– DPS & CC Line: damages, interrupts and stuns enemies with a pet.
    Dark Magic – SUPPORT Line: Removes conditions and effects, restores ally health and magicka, stuns and knocks down enemies.
    Storm Calling – DPS Line: Stronger damage output with AoE

    I'd make that more:

    Daedric Summoning
    • Damage
    • Heal
    • Defense
    • Self-buff

    Dark Magic
    • Damage (for those people who still slot Crystal Frags)
    • CC
    • Heal/sustain

    Storm Calling
    • Damage
    • Self-buff/heal
    • Escape/defense
    • Mobility

    Shoehorning that into 1 damage, 1 tank, and 1 heal line would be difficult ... unless, of course, they don't mind blowing up the lightning and pet flavors of the class.
  • MehrunesFlagon
    MehrunesFlagon
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    exeeter702 wrote: »
    cmetzger93 wrote: »
    I for one am super excited that they are wanting to make all classes able to fill each role!

    why the hell?

    Because an mmo with only 5 classes and 3 roles where only 1 of the 5 classes is suitable for tanking and another for healing is an extraordinarily pathetic prospect for an mmo that touts veriety and flexibility.

    then perhaps they should make more classes rather than doing something that could destroy the entire framework.
  • Minno
    Minno
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    Minno wrote: »
    - Sorcs:
    Daedric Summoning– DPS & CC Line: damages, interrupts and stuns enemies with a pet.
    Dark Magic – SUPPORT Line: Removes conditions and effects, restores ally health and magicka, stuns and knocks down enemies.
    Storm Calling – DPS Line: Stronger damage output with AoE

    I'd make that more:

    Daedric Summoning
    • Damage
    • Heal
    • Defense
    • Self-buff

    Dark Magic
    • Damage (for those people who still slot Crystal Frags)
    • CC
    • Heal/sustain

    Storm Calling
    • Damage
    • Self-buff/heal
    • Escape/defense
    • Mobility

    Shoehorning that into 1 damage, 1 tank, and 1 heal line would be difficult ... unless, of course, they don't mind blowing up the lightning and pet flavors of the class.

    Yea that's why joy and I are worried. There's too many spells that cross the aisles; if they go the warden route for Tank/Heals/DPS organization, expect most of your abilities to get a complete makeover.
  • Bevik
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    I think that was perfect that the Templar is the best healer, DK is the best tank option. Warden supposed to be a pet supporter class. They just messed up.

    At the moment you can heal and tank with any class choosing the right armor and skills. The quality of tanking/healing is different depends on the player's skills and the skills available for the class.

    It could be good giving an option to all classes to fill any role, the problem is I don't want to see a tank healer, tank dps or whatever. There must be sacrifices. If you go tanky you won't be able to do proper damage or heal. Tank should go for Health. Health should increase hp recovery, damage you can take, maybe the more attribute points you have on health the less damage you take or whatever so that will force tanks to put more on health. Stamina if you choose the blocking way rather than have massive HP pool.

    Stamina builds for melee and archer builds and magicka for mages, healers obviously. But a proper DPS Healer mix is a bad idea also or after choosing a certain skill or role some other skills should be blanked out, greyed out so you won't be able to learn those skills. With respec you can change your healer for dps for example just choosing a different route for the skills.
  • Mystrius_Archaion
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    Well, this sucks for nightblades and somewhat for templars as nightblades don't have any 6 second damage shield, which other classes get, and templar's don't have a magicka based damage shield.
    They'll both be forced to use restoration staff for the ward when a damage shield is heavily encouraged for content or pvp, or forced into light armor which isn't ideal for every situation or build.

    Also, sorcerers and dragonknights now get even better at shield stacking than the templar or nightblade because of more class options.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Well, this sucks for nightblades and somewhat for templars as nightblades don't have any 6 second damage shield, which other classes get, and templar's don't have a magicka based damage shield.
    They'll both be forced to use restoration staff for the ward when a damage shield is heavily encouraged for content or pvp, or forced into light armor which isn't ideal for every situation or build.

    Also, sorcerers and dragonknights now get even better at shield stacking than the templar or nightblade because of more class options.

    That's good though you don't really need a damage shield as a templar or nightblade
  • Mystrius_Archaion
    Mystrius_Archaion
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    Well, this sucks for nightblades and somewhat for templars as nightblades don't have any 6 second damage shield, which other classes get, and templar's don't have a magicka based damage shield.
    They'll both be forced to use restoration staff for the ward when a damage shield is heavily encouraged for content or pvp, or forced into light armor which isn't ideal for every situation or build.

    Also, sorcerers and dragonknights now get even better at shield stacking than the templar or nightblade because of more class options.

    That's good though you don't really need a damage shield as a templar or nightblade

    I've heard, from more than just a few people, that damage shields are "mandatory" in veteran content.

    Anyway, it definitely does not help build variety to limit options more. I recently went back and watched early videos about this game on youtube just for fun and one of them talked about "playing how you want" like "using a 2-handed weapon as a magic user" and this game is getting farther and farther from that.
    I would argue that it is getting less fun because of this.
  • thankyourat
    thankyourat
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    Well, this sucks for nightblades and somewhat for templars as nightblades don't have any 6 second damage shield, which other classes get, and templar's don't have a magicka based damage shield.
    They'll both be forced to use restoration staff for the ward when a damage shield is heavily encouraged for content or pvp, or forced into light armor which isn't ideal for every situation or build.

    Also, sorcerers and dragonknights now get even better at shield stacking than the templar or nightblade because of more class options.

    That's good though you don't really need a damage shield as a templar or nightblade

    I've heard, from more than just a few people, that damage shields are "mandatory" in veteran content.

    Anyway, it definitely does not help build variety to limit options more. I recently went back and watched early videos about this game on youtube just for fun and one of them talked about "playing how you want" like "using a 2-handed weapon as a magic user" and this game is getting farther and farther from that.
    I would argue that it is getting less fun because of this.

    That's true damage shields are mandatory for veteran content but so is light armor for dps. So you will have acess to the damage shield. Yea veteran pve content you will have a hard time playing as you want, but in pvp that's not the case you can play a whatever build you want and do well because you aren't trying to min/max dps. A 2hand magicka build in pvp can be pretty strong
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Well, this sucks for nightblades and somewhat for templars as nightblades don't have any 6 second damage shield, which other classes get, and templar's don't have a magicka based damage shield.
    They'll both be forced to use restoration staff for the ward when a damage shield is heavily encouraged for content or pvp, or forced into light armor which isn't ideal for every situation or build.

    Also, sorcerers and dragonknights now get even better at shield stacking than the templar or nightblade because of more class options.

    DKs do not have a magicka based shield. DKs aren't shield stacking. You don't know what you are talking about.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • Izaki
    Izaki
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    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Brrrofski wrote: »
    Who's using shuffle for dodge chance??

    Definitely not what I use it for.

    I've wanted this saying it for ages because the heavy armor meta is so boring. Wish they'd address heavy itself though.

    Like on a Stam character next patch in a small group/solo, you can either run medium and take insane damage and have bad healing plus lower health, run heavy and be snared forever or use forward momentum and lack a burst heal. Guess stamplar population will shoot up... Or an increased amount of stamblades which work fine in medium

    So it's fine for you that heavy armor stamina gets nerfed while heavy armor magicka builds aren't touched at all? I think that magicka builds will just roll over stamina with this change because they are already damn strong in the current meta (except magicka sorc - ironically the magicka class people complain the most about - simply because burst classes struggle in tank metas).
    baratron wrote: »
    Change to Siphoner passive in Champion System (used in PvP). This is to help with “super long fights where no one is running out of resources or fights”. Up to 25% restore, from 15% that it was previously. Helps to distinguish between high-damage burst builds and sustain builds.

    That's interesting. Would have probably prefered an adjustment to Battlespirit (more damage for everyone) and a rework for vampire undeath passive to shorten fights but this is worth a try actually, need to test that out. Actually a good thing that they want to shorten the duration which fights take these days.
    casparian wrote: »
    baratron wrote: »
    CHANGING ARMOR ACTIVES. You will now need 5 pieces of Light Armor to use Annulment, 5 Medium to use Evasion, 5 Heavy for Immovable. Currently anyone can use any of them. Now the Nightblade evasion ability is cool, because Tanks can wear Heavy Armor and use it.

    I'm very worried about this one. Will make nightblades the strongest heavy armor class (stamina) by far. I think heavy armor needs some more adjustments but I don't think that this is the right way. Will also destroy Tavas builds for example which is a very bad thing, nothing that we should be happy about.

    It will destroy Tava's builds for non-NB tanks. Nothing wrong with giving NBs a niche tankng advantage.

    Nor do I think it's fair to say that NBs will now be the strongest heavy armor class. They still can't do the Block+Fury+Blood Spawn+Wrath+Leap thing, for instance.

    To my mind, the real measure of the new 5-pieces requirement will be whether it gives stam builds a reason to go into Cyrodiil in 5 medium again.

    I dunno, the Fury Dk build isn't a thing on my server (stam Dk is considered rather weak there and I agree with that) while there are heavy armor stamnbs which are extremely strong and will be even stronger compared to other stam classes (tho I have to admit that these heavy armor stamnbs play dueling builds which aren't viable open world because no Cloak, gapcloser and Shadow Image so we shouldn't focus too much on that).

    Not at all, that's my point. I hate the heavy armor meta, but I want them to address heavy armor itself. This kills heavy on Stam. I'd rather kill heavy in PvP in general.

    You wanna tank, cool. But you shouldn't be able to do crazy damage too.

    But then stamblade and mag sorc will just tear everyone apart. That's the problem when heavy armor goes.

    Light armor would just stomp over medium armor as well because light armor builds usually have a counter to stacked burst (mist form or block) and a counter to pressure (strong spammable shields or burst heals) while medium armor struggles with counters to these. Don't see a way how a well played mag dk, magplar, magwarden or magblade would not just slay the medium armor user (fighting a magsorc would be the best matchup you can hope for in my opinion).

    What's wrong with not using Shuffle? Its not by any means an essential skill to have. Especially on heavy armor where you have tons of other defensive options (such as block).
    @ Izaki #PCEU
    #FrenchKiss #MidnightSlayers
    #MoreDPSthanYou #ImmortalRedeemerOnStamblade
    #Stamblade
  • aeowulf
    aeowulf
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    personally i like the idea of separation between the skill trees. Right now there are some roles in the game (trial tank and healer as example) where there is certainly a meta class for it. DK and Templar respectively. Warden has recently appeared on the scene with three distinct skill trees and has been well balanced into both those roles just fine. Splitting the roles out into respective trees for all classes will make it much easier to balance the classes & class roles without impacting the other roles as severely as a lot of the current changes do. A while back i wrote down all class skills in an attempt to look at how balanced they actually were mathematically. It's almost impossible. Doing this separation is a good thing for balance, I have faith that ZOS will be able to keep the classes different enough they will still appeal.
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