Tryxus wrote: »

Why not, instead of decreasing the HoT, increase the cost for this ultimate and rework both morphs of this skill to give Wardens more utility for PvE healing? Maybe in a way that Wardens can run this skill instead of Warhorn.

Wardens in PvP would still have a strong burst heal, but without near constant uptime (unless they build for it), and it'll make them more effective for PvE healing

Agreed here. i've said this before, but what I'd do is increase cost to 125 and rework either morph, doesn't make any sense that both do pretty much the same: provides higher uptimes. Instead, I'd like to see an offensive option, some kind of buff that could also, maybe compete with warhorn.

laced wrote: »

1. Bear needs to be single slot, it is not good enough to warrant 2 slots.

Also agreed here. This is most certainly the change needed, alongside some buffs to the bear's tankyness, currently so squishy.

l3alls wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

...Additionally, we’re looking at decreasing the strength of the heal over time from Secluded Grove to maintain a cheaper Ultimate. This will reduce the overall effectiveness of the Ultimate...

Thank you for being on top of the warden healing ult!

I just can't be grateful because if this. And pls make Warden skills not (just) cancellable, but overall shorter and faster animationed. Thank you. And give back passive phys dmg increase, thank you. And make maxHP attribute more useful in connection of Warden skills. Thank you. And give us longer skills-durations, thank you.

(Forgive me magDK meta tanks for my selfishness, but pls ZOS change Torug's Pact spelldmg bonus to phys res. Thank you.)

@ZOS_Wrobel glad to see your looking at the class. For me a big issue is that the dps isn't the greatest, I play stam warden and I'd like to make some suggestions to make the class better, at least for stam.

First of all cliff racer needs something added to it, because the main purpose of a morph is to add something new, so maybe let it apply minor fracture and breach, meaning you don't always have to run a stamplar. Also, I think this skill needs to be dodge-able, I know that you've stated the reason behind this being undodge-able, but this skill is cancer in pvp, quote from my good friend who plays stam nb "3 hits and I'm dead." Also, it would make some sense that the cliff racer is flying toward the ground and a tremendous speed and the enemy catches it off guard by quickly rolling to the side, causing the bird to crash into to ground.

Next is subterranean assault, this skill is so cancer in pvp at the moment, and I think it needs to be nerfed by about 15-25%, however I think it should also be reworked to be more like flames of oblivion (inferno morph from dk ardent flame) and fire every 3 seconds, this means the amount of times it hits won't be changed if you are already activating it on the 3 second mark, I think this should last 10 or 15 seconds depending what you line it up with. (Like hurricane lasts 15 seconds so people activate it with blade cloak, or you can activate it every 10 seconds with the rest of the dots.)

Next is growing swarm, and this skill isn't getting used at all, because the infection morph does more dps. So I think converting this dot into stam and get stronger over time, as the name implies the swarm is growing so more and more flies are coming (sounds edgy!) Also I think this morph should last 10 seconds like the other dots and the infection morph should last 8.

Next is bird of prey, the only problem I have with this skill is that the duration of the bezerk is 8 seconds, so when I use it it falls off in the last part of the rotation. I saw the other morph got its duration increased, so maybe increase it to 10 - 12 seconds.

I myself don't mind the bear ulti, it outperforms the classic flawless and bow ultimate, so I'll leave the pvp discussions to the pvpers.

Next skill is green lotus, I love this skill so much, it's saved my life many times and it procs natures gift. Only one problem is that the duration of 20 seconds sometimes falls off in my rotation, so even a 2 second increase would let me have 100% crit uptime.

Last of all is the piercing cold passive from winters embrace, I remember when this first came out on the pts it gave 6% physical and cold damage, now it only does magic and cold, providing no utility for the stam warden. How about 6% physical and magic damage, because the only ice skill the magic warden will use is winters revenge, and 6% reduced damage is hardly anything.

It would be really nice if you did at least one of these changes as the warden in pve really needs some love right now. Keep up the great content.

I believe the bear should have a conal aoe when ult is used not unlike dawnbreaker. Also the auto respawn need to be instant. That is because the DPS drop is major in trials where the bear dies. Yes please smooth transitions. But winter's revenge. That will help do and not hurt pvp

Tryxus wrote: »

SodanTok wrote: »

laced wrote: »

SirCritical wrote: »

l3alls wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

...Additionally, we’re looking at decreasing the strength of the heal over time from Secluded Grove to maintain a cheaper Ultimate. This will reduce the overall effectiveness of the Ultimate...

Thank you for being on top of the warden healing ult!

I just can't be grateful because if this. And pls make Warden skills not (just) cancellable, but overall shorter and faster animationed. Thank you. And give back passive phys dmg increase, thank you. And make maxHP attribute more useful in connection of Warden skills. Thank you. And give us longer skills-durations, thank you.

(Forgive me magDK meta tanks for my selfishness, but pls ZOS change Torug's Pact spelldmg bonus to phys res. Thank you.)

Wait, they got rid of the phys damage bonus wit hthe latest coming patch?!?!?!?!?!

There is no phys damage bonus. Technically it was removed with first official release of Warden (it had one during PTS)

Piercing Cold passive: it was changed from giving Frost + Physical Damage to Frost + Magic Damage

Yeah, but that was before warden was officially released. Nobody has any real experience in pve or pvp with it and most people any idea it existed. Not that it should not return. I want it back (even if changed to poison buff and cliff/bear changed to poison damage)

Pawsy wrote: »

@ZOS_Wrobel glad to see your looking at the class. For me a big issue is that the dps isn't the greatest, I play stam warden and I'd like to make some suggestions to make the class better, at least for stam.

First of all cliff racer needs something added to it, because the main purpose of a morph is to add something new, so maybe let it apply minor fracture and breach, meaning you don't always have to run a stamplar. Also, I think this skill needs to be dodge-able, I know that you've stated the reason behind this being undodge-able, but this skill is cancer in pvp, quote from my good friend who plays stam nb "3 hits and I'm dead." Also, it would make some sense that the cliff racer is flying toward the ground and a tremendous speed and the enemy catches it off guard by quickly rolling to the side, causing the bird to crash into to ground.

Next is subterranean assault, this skill is so cancer in pvp at the moment, and I think it needs to be nerfed by about 15-25%, however I think it should also be reworked to be more like flames of oblivion (inferno morph from dk ardent flame) and fire every 3 seconds, this means the amount of times it hits won't be changed if you are already activating it on the 3 second mark, I think this should last 10 or 15 seconds depending what you line it up with. (Like hurricane lasts 15 seconds so people activate it with blade cloak, or you can activate it every 10 seconds with the rest of the dots.)

Next is growing swarm, and this skill isn't getting used at all, because the infection morph does more dps. So I think converting this dot into stam and get stronger over time, as the name implies the swarm is growing so more and more flies are coming (sounds edgy!) Also I think this morph should last 10 seconds like the other dots and the infection morph should last 8.

Next is bird of prey, the only problem I have with this skill is that the duration of the bezerk is 8 seconds, so when I use it it falls off in the last part of the rotation. I saw the other morph got its duration increased, so maybe increase it to 10 - 12 seconds.

I myself don't mind the bear ulti, it outperforms the classic flawless and bow ultimate, so I'll leave the pvp discussions to the pvpers.

Next skill is green lotus, I love this skill so much, it's saved my life many times and it procs natures gift. Only one problem is that the duration of 20 seconds sometimes falls off in my rotation, so even a 2 second increase would let me have 100% crit uptime.

Last of all is the piercing cold passive from winters embrace, I remember when this first came out on the pts it gave 6% physical and cold damage, now it only does magic and cold, providing no utility for the stam warden. How about 6% physical and magic damage, because the only ice skill the magic warden will use is winters revenge, and 6% reduced damage is hardly anything.

It would be really nice if you did at least one of these changes as the warden in pve really needs some love right now. Keep up the great content.

This is a great write up and feedback, but as a magicka DPS who uses frost based gear and damage set up, you are entirely wrong on the passive. It should be Frost + Physical like the original iteration. Currently there are two decent frost DPS sets; Winterborn and Ysgramor, I'd also throw in Ice Furnace but no DPS is going to run heavy armor in pve (and only a dunmer could make the most DPS advantage out of Ice Furnace at that.)

Perhaps rather than dealing magic damage; most of the magicka morphs should embrace Warden's unique place of dealing frost damage. Including slapping this on the cliff racer. Certainly on swarm (which you are also wrong, growing swarm on an AoE frost build is amazing for chewing through mobs), or the DoT in general should be frost.

The biggest issue as to why the frost damage is currently shunned away is how Arctic Blast scales damage on max health. If it scaled to magicka much like the shards morph, it'd be useful for magicka wardens in general. Honestly; to me Animal Companions which is the DPS tree is arguably awful for any DPS stamina or magicka. And Winter's Embrace just feels like it was shoe-horned into being a tank tree because the devs suddently decided frost = tank. Where as the trailer for Morrowind made the frost look more like an offensive idea while reiterating the small frost wall we've seen NPCs use for ages.

Warden was visually shown as the 'hybrid' but it's not good at being a hybrid, a single stat build, or really anything beyond a few niche healer builds for trials and being decent at PvP because of a single undodgeable spam skill and a really broken ultimate for healing.

Tryxus wrote: »

Why not, instead of decreasing the HoT, increase the cost for this ultimate and rework both morphs of this skill to give Wardens more utility for PvE healing? Maybe in a way that Wardens can run this skill instead of Warhorn.

Wardens in PvP would still have a strong burst heal, but without near constant uptime (unless they build for it), and it'll make them more effective for PvE healing

My warden tank loves the cheap ultimate cost. I would rather have the healing reduced than to have the cost increased. Not only does it give me bust healing it also works great combining it with both war machine & automated defenses.

Warden healers need more utility. To be competitive we need:

a. Class access to Minor Magickasteal - for stam-healers, so they don't have to slot a Destro/Restro

b. Some means of buffing group damage -Minor toughness is not particularly useful. Anyone using Warhorn gets it. Something like minor force would be much more sought after since mag dps don't really have easy access to it. a penetration buff would also be an interesting way to go.

Vaoh wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Warden healers need more utility. To be competitive we need:

a. Class access to Minor Magickasteal - for stam-healers, so they don't have to slot a Destro/Restro

b. Some means of buffing group damage -Minor toughness is not particularly useful. Anyone using Warhorn gets it. Something like minor force would be much more sought after since mag dps don't really have easy access to it. a penetration buff would also be an interesting way to go.

Stam Healing.... are we aiming for a true Health-based DPS as well? This just isn't realistic and would be very weird imo.

Just like Health-based damage skills (think Blazing Shield), this Stam heal is meant to be a unique skill that can be slotted on certain builds. However the purpose of this Stam heal isn't to create a Stam Healer, or for Blazing Shield to create Health-based DPS.

I totally agree on Wardens needing the ability to grant true passive group support though. They are majorly lacking in this and is one of the main reasons why they are still so inferior to Templars at healing (besides also being worse at healing unless spamming Secluded Grove, which you shouldn't be doing).

Add 10% magical damage taken from the target if it is affected by swarm and it's morphs, will benefit the whole group. Not physical because that'd put stamina in trials further ahead...

This would benefit everyone who is not a magicka dk by quite a bit.

Give wardens 10% increased critical damage against chilled, snared and immobilised target.

Make Bird of prey last the double duration.. It is such a magicka drain compared to grim focus, it's not even funny...

Subterranean assault is the only skill that is really strong in the warden kit pve-wise. Ice skills are very weird for the most part. Arctic blast for example, very costly, does nearly nothing and the only point is to put people out of stealth in pvp.

I'm actually going to change this post entirely. Why? Because I have a lab report due so I need to procrastinate. I also understand that patch notes are about to come out... hopefully this is wasted breath

First I will be speaking from my build when it comes to magic warden.

Cp is allocated to the likeness of mNB prior to path change. Meaning that it's bulk of points not used in the ritual is actually in master at arms not thaum. This is because currently the warden has more direct damage.

Build: 5 necro and 5 julianos and iceheart shoulder precise lightning vma staff back bar. 5 star gold(couple purple mostly gold stuff).

bar: FB: magelight, fletcher flies(bees), deep fissure(shalks), screaming cliff racer(bird), betty netch(netch) ulti: eternal guardian(bear)
BB: magelight, WOE, Winters revenge(ice), shield, bird of prey(wings) ulti: enternal guardian(bear)

rotation explanation: In my test clench is just a laughable amount of dps for the cost. I found for only skelly tests that bird of prey is better. now I use the nicknames I listed above for rotation(it's how I think the rotation). I also start with an empowered bees.

wings->netch->shalks->bear->la->bees->bar swap->ice->la->wings->la->WOE->bar swap ->la->shalks->HA->shalks->la->bird->la->bees->la->shalks-> bawswap repeat from ice. If timed correctly my netch will drop off at the end of front bar rotation and would be swap canceled. the bear ulti is done perfectly will proc right at the end of back bar rotation and will be baw swap cancelled.

This rotation leave a little gap between WOE part being the barswap after ice can freeze(pun intended) you character for a second(there needs to be a fix) and also just rotation is a little to long. I understand that moondancer would bring more dps but I don't like relying on rng and synergies for my builds. My highest parse was 29027 per second with only ele drain. Nwo for the problems I found with the mWarden dps.

The bear is absolutely needed to get decent numbers on a mag warden. The problem with this is that the bear dies pretty easily. I ran vAA the other day with my toon. I will compare with the first boss. It will survive only through one lightning phase, the second phase will kill it. Scamps survive through the whole experience. Bear being a double bar ulti needs to be able to survive through everything a scamp can and more(because its an ulti). Or conversely the respawn should be instant and cause no animations. The bear animation is the longest in the game causing a very large dps drop that no other class has to deal with. this need a fix regardless of PvP.

now for considerations for buffs to damage the problem is that warden is believed to be very strong in PvP. So buffing skills that carry over would not be either good for PvP balance or would atleast cause community outcry. So lets look at PvE skills and weigh our options.

shalks birds and probably even bees(maybe bear if the cc immunity makes it relevant) all can be used in PvP. So buffing these skills is not a good idea for consideration. Ice though since its a ground based static AOE, would be a good skill to buff. Wings is used in PvP but could see a little buff to help PvE. Bear could be powerful in PvP there is a problem that needs to be resolved.

What I would buff:

1. Bear: The bear is direct damage but doesn't proc scathing. If it did scathing might be the choice set for warden seeing that it has the most Direct damage in game now. If this is unwanted then the bear should cause a conal damage when ulti is activated. mag is known for AOE damage and this will make the bear closer at least to AOE relevance. This plus a tankier bear will make for a more robust ulti which should award a player for double barring the ult. reward needs to be larger for this ult.

2. Birds of Prey: This skill can be a great buff in PvP but in a group with a healer that uses combat prayer is worthless. In a trial, I will remove this skill for clench because of combat prayer and staff passives. Maybe a longer duration or some unique damage buff for the group would be better.

3. Ice: This skill is supposed to be the Liquid lightning for the warden but the damage and chilled effect is lack luster. Buffing the damage is obviously an option but a boring one. Having a target inside ice and receiving a debuff would be a fun option. Having the target receive some x% more damage from magic attacks add dps to the warden and adds a unique and power buff to groups. This would buff dps for magplars(who need it), mNBs(who deserve a buff), and pet sorcs( ZoS's favorite class).

Thank you for reading and wouldn't mind any thoughts on my ideas

Vaoh wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Warden healers need more utility. To be competitive we need:

a. Class access to Minor Magickasteal - for stam-healers, so they don't have to slot a Destro/Restro

b. Some means of buffing group damage -Minor toughness is not particularly useful. Anyone using Warhorn gets it. Something like minor force would be much more sought after since mag dps don't really have easy access to it. a penetration buff would also be an interesting way to go.

Stam Healing.... are we aiming for a true Health-based DPS as well? This just isn't realistic and would be very weird imo.

Just like Health-based damage skills (think Blazing Shield), this Stam heal is meant to be a unique skill that can be slotted on certain builds. However the purpose of this Stam heal isn't to create a Stam Healer, or for Blazing Shield to create Health-based DPS.

I totally agree on Wardens needing the ability to grant true passive group support though. They are majorly lacking in this and is one of the main reasons why they are still so inferior to Templars at healing (besides also being worse at healing unless spamming Secluded Grove, which you shouldn't be doing).

I have seen people try stam healing in vDungeons and it made me cringe, we booted them, because lets be honest it isnt even a thing.

Exactly lol. The only Stamina heals that you can apply to your allies are Vigor, Soothing Spores, and technically some Ultimates.

Vigor is a weak heal when you consider that your tank and Stam DPS allies often slot this. Soothing Spores is a small cone-AoE burst heal with no HoT which has a large Cost (an issue with Fungal Growth in general). This essentially leaves you with spamming Secluded Grove, which is just sad and is getting nerfed next patch. You also give zero group support outside of heals.

None of this even takes into account that the person trying a Stam Healer build is likely inexperienced at the game and won't even manage these three skills well.

Don't do it ppl....

SodanTok wrote: »

laced wrote: »

Vaoh wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Warden healers need more utility. To be competitive we need:

a. Class access to Minor Magickasteal - for stam-healers, so they don't have to slot a Destro/Restro

b. Some means of buffing group damage -Minor toughness is not particularly useful. Anyone using Warhorn gets it. Something like minor force would be much more sought after since mag dps don't really have easy access to it. a penetration buff would also be an interesting way to go.

Stam Healing.... are we aiming for a true Health-based DPS as well? This just isn't realistic and would be very weird imo.

Just like Health-based damage skills (think Blazing Shield), this Stam heal is meant to be a unique skill that can be slotted on certain builds. However the purpose of this Stam heal isn't to create a Stam Healer, or for Blazing Shield to create Health-based DPS.

I totally agree on Wardens needing the ability to grant true passive group support though. They are majorly lacking in this and is one of the main reasons why they are still so inferior to Templars at healing (besides also being worse at healing unless spamming Secluded Grove, which you shouldn't be doing).

I have seen people try stam healing in vDungeons and it made me cringe, we booted them, because lets be honest it isnt even a thing.

How much healing you need in vDungeons that stam warden healer cant suffice. People are soloing these dungeons...

Very few players can solo Vet dungeons, especially since Morrowind launched. Also I think it's embarrassing for anyone to join a Vet Dungeon expecting to be carried.

Stam Healers suck for the same reason that double One Hand and Shield DPS builds suck. You join expecting the three poor ppl that got stuck with you to do the work.

Maybe very few solo, but much more in 2, 3 or 4. Been part of groups where just dps stam warden with healing ult would suffice. I feel like good stam warden healer would be enough for any group that knows what they are doing. If some group needs some proper trial tier templar healer to finish most of the vDungeons then it looks to me the tank or those DD there arent supposed to be there.

Maybe your experience (or theory) is more biased toward magicka DD? I assume some stam healer would offer you no magickasteal and fewer resource orbs. I can see magicka oriented DD struggling then with resources and indirectly then with survival.

@ZOS_Wrobel I like both changes from last patch, particularly Secluded Grove one, maybe now that we've addresses the most problematic issue with PvP Wardens we can move on to provide new DPS capabilities, tho I'm sure this is for another patch.

Now the bear buff, it's fine but still not enough other than for duels. The bear still is too squishy and hard to heal for open world, and most importantly, the ulti is not versatile enough. Single target damage is not even close as desirable as the utility, aoe, heals or cc other ultis provide.

Wish something else could be done before patch goes live, ideally allow us to single bar it, would address both issues without overperforming.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ty ty ty

Don't listen to the increase cost crowd, not everyone has the same damage oriented builds and therefore need access to a strong heal independent of damage stats.

Ty again!

*Happy dance*

Honestly, I'd have been fine with either, hmm or actually I'd prefer both, cost increase and reduce healing.

Tired of being look at basically a healing bot, and that way ZOS could focus on buffing the severaly lacking aspects of the kit freely, mainly Cc and offensive options.