Joy_Division wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

ParaNostram wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

To be clear, the only thing I'm against when it comes to sorc is that new staff. 99% of it's use in PvP will be by a sorc. Anyone can use it, but nobody does. Every destro resto sorc (90% of them) use it. Like 5% of the rest of magica population use it. It is a huge sorc buff.

Yes, mag sorc is strong in PvP. But it isn't good mode. That new staff will be game breaking. It cannot go live like it.

Only reason sorcs use force pulse is because there is literally no other spammable available. Personally I wish sorcs had an in kit spammable. Here's what it boils down to now... Sorcs, the only option there was is now better. Every other magicka build, now you have a choice between the class spammable and force pulse. Or hell, use it in an off rotation and continue using the better spammable. Watch, I'll demonstrate the rotation on say a magblade.

Force pulse to proc the staff, light attack, swallow soul, light attack, swallow soul, light attack, force pulse etc sneaking in your dots and assassin's will burst. You have the same advantages, and still have a better spammable to use. You just get another plus to your setup.

Same with DKs, you also get another dot to add look at that. Same with every magicka set up.It's just making a single tool available to EVERYONE better. Just because Sorcs don't have an alternative to that tool does not mean this is exclusively a sorc buff.

Ugh... These forums make my brain hurt...

LOL at this comparison of the classes. Yes, DK is JUST LIKE SORC with Crushing Shock. Except without Crystal Frags. And without an Execute. Oh and without unblockable Curse. Oh right and without mobility. Yeah guys, everyone can use Crushing Shock just as effectively as Sorc!!111

These are some low-quality posts you're putting out there.

Oh yes and instead magknights have a root that can keep people thoroughly in place, impressive dots, the ability to reflect spells, and a spammable that heals themselves for a giant chunk, and another dot that heals for an impressive chunk.

See? We both can just list things that are in the class' kit.

Here's what all classes get from this staff... All three status effects thrown onto the enemy. Tell me, what build wouldn't benefit from doing 8% increased damage to something, taking 15% decreased damage from them, and putting on a not insignificant fire dot? Cuz that is the literal only thing that's changed with that staff.

If you can't see how this can benefit every class then I don't know what to tell you.

Edit: I even offered an example of what it looks like using force pulse on an off rotation just to apply those status effects while still using BETTER SPAMMABLE ABILITIES! Wanna know why no other class uses force pulse usually? Because every other class has a better option than it, that option still remains and can still be used in conjunction with the staff's proc.

Would love to see you actually try to play a mDK with Crushing Shock. It's hard to take you seriously when you clearly have little to no experience with the classes you're attempting to compare Sorcs to. They aren't interchangeable. You can't just throw a Destro on a DK and voila you're a Sorc. Your argument which essentially boils down to "everyone has access to Force Pulse" is at best lazy and uninformed as to how classes actually play out in Cyrodiil. None of the other classes can land burst that ignores global cooldowns like Sorc. If you don't know that by now you either (A) Don't know how to play Sorc or (B) Don't know how to play anything but Sorc. If you're just another zergling and you're speaking from the perspective of spamming Force Pulse behind a zerg and having fun, just say so and we can be done with it.

One of the things that has kept Sorc fairly balanced is the lack of a strong class spammable (though Force Pulse is pretty strong for a spammable). Sorc has made up for that with the highest burst from skills that can be timed to ignore global cooldowns. No other class can deal as much instant burst damage as a Sorc who lands Curse/Frag/Fury/Ulti combo. So it makes sense that the filler skill (Force Pulse) not be OP. This Asylum weapon is going to add so much pressure to Force Pulse alone that it's going to be completely over the top with the rest of Sorc's toolkit.

Also, you don't see other classes moaning for this weapon to go Live. That's because other classes know they can't do with Force Pulse what Sorc can do with Force Pulse. That alone should tell you something. I'm honestly exhausted of the Sorcs who each and every patch refuse to see the strengths in their own class and act like it's somehow hard to play. It's literally the easiest class to play solo.

I'm not saying they're the same for crying out loud! Ugh! I'm not trying to turn DKs or Magblades or anything into sorcs! Can we stop putting words in my mouth? I'm getting really, REALLY frustrated with this BS.

Not to mention that blatantly ad hominem "oh you don't agree with me clearly you just don't play as these other classes". I do! I have! I've even made for fun magknight builds with force pulse as the spammable and guess what? It didn't perform as well as the meta so I wouldn't even say replace your spammable with force pulse. I know the limitations of the classes I do theory crafting all the time to create different and fun and unique builds. I try things, and I learn.

Everyone has access to force pulse, that is my argument, but you misunderstand what my argument means. It means use the force pulse once every 4 or 5 seconds to proc the staff, then keep using your usual stuff. Hell, don't want to use a destro staff as your DPS bar? Put it on your back bar, make it infused with the weapon damage enchantment, the force pulse will proc the staff and enchantment, swap back to your regular bar and voila look at that you're back to your normal rotation and damage for those couple seconds. Seeing how in PvP battles are often won in couple second burst moments, you benefit just as much.

I'm literally just saying the staff is something you can use force pulse once to proc the effects and go back to business as usual. Come on. Getting tired and frustrated.

Edit: Also your "nobody can land bursts that ignore global cooldowns like sorcs" comment, I have two words... Magicka Warden.

Your frustration isn't because I don't understand what you're trying to say--I do--you're becoming frustrated because you aren't listening to what I'm saying. You're ignoring the Synergy Force Pulse has with the Sorc toolkit. That's the issue. You can't just shoehorn Force Pulse into the rotation on a different class and expect similar results. If you can't see that, then we're at an impasse.

I know the synergy force pulse has with sorcs. It procs frags. That's literally why it's used, to proc frags while doing damage. What is gained is the benefit of the staff. That benefit can be gained by anyone else by just adding force pulse to the rotation. Thus net gain for both - same thing. The only difference is the sorc won't have to add something to their rotation. If that is that large of an advantage, then it's the same situation for magdens who often set up their DPS to have shalks, cliff racer, and force pulse and maybe an ultimate all land at the same time. Their rotation burst doesn't change either. So if it is that big of an advantage to keep the same rotation as before, then it isn't a sorc problem exclusively. If it isn't, then it isn't a sorc problem at all.

It's not a "sorc" problem, but what people are taking issue with is that is much easier for sorcerers to exploit those benefits than say a templar or a DK

Most sorcs are already using a destro staff and already using crushing shock. Just equip an Ayslum staff, and get a sharpened ninrhoned one at that with say a defile glyph rather than relying on a charge staff to boot, and it's so easy to reap those benefits.

How many templars or DKs in Cyrodiil or BGs or even PvE DPS for that matter do you know that run around force Pulsing things? What do I have to do as a templar? Drop the two swords that syngerize with my class and take away an ability I don't want to lose just to use crushing shock. OK, I now have the same benefit, but only at an opportunity cost; I either have no CC or no gap closer, lost a five piece set bonus, lost 5% extra damage, lost 200 some odd spell damage. The sorc lost nothing.

So the argument that "hey, other classes can get the same benefits" rings hollow.

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

Drdeath20 wrote: »

WreckfulAbandon wrote: »

A lot of you sorc whiners shouldn't even have forum accounts. With no understanding of the game it's impossible to make coherent points. (If you haven't PvP'd with all 5 classes extensively, keep your opinions on PvP to yourself a bit more) The same inane points are brought up tirelessly, again and again, worded slightly differently. They are shot down each time by multiple (knowledgeable) ppl but it only takes one mouthbreather to stumble in here and give CPR to the dumbest idea floated yet. Streak as a spammable? 5% cost reduction thru class passives insanely OP?? Endless Fury an AoE execute???

This thread was 3 pages long when I went to bed last night, and the sorc haters still hadn't made any logical successes in their arguments. 4 pages later the situation hasn't changed.

Useless post is useless.

I can already tell you're just gonna be a wealth of valuable information...

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sorc is so easy to play every death recap should que a rimshot drummer cause you died playing the easiest class . A death recap from a Sorc player should come with an apology from Wrobel and reminder to roll Sorc . Posting a Sorc 1vX video is like hanging a Handicapped placard on the dash of your car . In fact a notice on your dash you play Sorc grants unlimited parking anywhere irl .





Ok I got it all out .

Derra wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Sorc is so easy to play every death recap should que a rimshot drummer cause you died playing the easiest class . A death recap from a Sorc player should come with an apology from Wrobel and reminder to roll Sorc . Posting a Sorc 1vX video is like hanging a Handicapped placard on the dash of your car . In fact a notice on your dash you play Sorc grants unlimited parking anywhere irl .





Ok I got it all out .

http://i.imgur.com/L19BJpo.jpg

sorcs says hello

SodanTok wrote: »

Aedaryl wrote: »

For people saying the new Rune is OP:

Did you try it on live ?

On live, you can already stun permabloker with it and have the frag hit. The new undodgeable buff is not needed to touch on frag, you can already streak then frag.

You also forgot people need to give up a skill to use it. And there is too much needed skills for having a true choice.

Drop Frag ? Fury ? Harness ? Inner light ? Curse ? Hardened ? Streak ? Healing ward ? Force pulse ?

If you don't use one of the skills spell before, then you are already a nerf version of a sorc.

Sorc have generally one flex spot for putting : Mine or Bouldness storm or Encase or dark exchange and now the cage. The cage is not better than theze flex skills, and in a group, dk or NB can already make the rune job.

I am sure all the people that are going to die to the combo will be very understanding of what the sorc had to sacrifice to be able to guarantee the combo on any squishy from 40m range.

It is simply stupid. It is not about if it is truly worth it or if you are gimping yourself. Someone will use it. And someone will die to it. And there wont be any good feeling from it nor actual brain used by the one performing it.

Anyway, good to know sorc got access to third long range stun. This time even undodgeable. I am sure there is some reasoning why scatter shot continues to be 10m range, dodgeable, blockable, reflectable disorient. I just wish someone finally shared this reasoning.

Feanor wrote: »

Again this? Seriously? I'd rather discuss the huge buff Fear got...

Qbiken wrote: »

spiiros wrote: »

CyrusArya wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

I didn't expect to need to put out a flashing neon sign saying pvp, I think the skills mentioned express that. Here are the contexts:

Highest mobility: sorc
Burst: sorc/warden/nb
Survivability: sorc shields, easily up to par when running resto ult, DKs tied, but lose damage, sorcy pie doesn't.
Ccs: Used to be fear, but DK and sorc both have root+unblockable cc (not DK prior because break via damage) beneficial in group situations. Negate too, if that counts.

Sorc is effectivly one of the best in pvp, with top cc, damage, ignoring roots with streaks. The only thing they aren't best in is pvp group healing.

Bgs too for obvious reasons, but you already know

I'll admit one thing, stamina DK outdoes magsorc for 1vx tank, but nothing else, even then stamDK is avoidable as ccs are expensive and they are slow/weak without Seventh/fury.

Oh, and yeah, streaks counters don't factor in until late, goes through roots, ball absorbs some stuff, gap closers sometimes can't catch up to stun/damage.

My point would be that there is no universal context in PvP. If a class were over performing in all aspects, we'd have an issue. But the balance of power is very tight between all classes, and has been for a while. Every class is extremely powerful in its own niche.

Let me answer your points 1:1.

Highest mobility: Sorc has good mobility, but so does anything stamina. Have you ever seen a stamina build in medium armor run around on speed pots? They cover ground faster and at less cost than a streaking sorc. Streak is directly countered by gap closers, where again the resource burn is in favor of those chasing. And finally, while half of mobility is creating distance, the other half of mobility is maintaining momentum i.e. countering snares. A snared sorc will not go far with streak so long as even one competent enemy is on them. All things considered, a stam templar or stam sorc will have just as good mobility as a sorc. And if you consider 3D mobility and juking people, shades is just as powerful as streak if used right.

Burst: Sorc burst is good, but it is extremely predictable. Nightblade (both magicka and stamina) is far more lethal. I will say, sorc is more accessible and easier to play. Night blade has a higher skill floor, but also a higher skill ceiling. When speaking absolutes and the dynamics of classes when played the way they are meant to be, nightblade burst in PvP is far superior. Simply quicker, harder hitting, less predictable, and accompanied with more buffs and debuffs than the sorc.

Survivability: 1v1, shields are great. When outnumbered or when being focused, they are one of the weaker mechanics. I find myself astoundingly more survivable when under focus as a heavy armor stamina build than as a sorc. I could elaborate but you won't really get it until you pick up a mag sorc yourself and duel a strong stamina player or fight an intense 1vX against opponents with lethal damage. Against pugs, indeed sorc seems invincible. All it takes is one good stam build in that "X" part of the equation to make sorc subpar in outnumbered PvP.

These are all topics relevant to small scale. In large scale pvp, sorc is outperformed by nightblade bombers and is mostly useful for the negate.

Every class is extremely powerful in their niche. If you find this statement hard to believe, chances are you are not playing your class right or have not seen it played right. So what is sorc's niche? Its the absolute best solo roamer. Dipping in and out of fights and blowing *** up. But when you have to buckle down and fight? I'd take any stam class over magicka sorc. And that precisely is why I main a stamplar and stamblade these days.

You can keep complaining and whining, but by now it should be abundantly clear that the devs also agree with and acknowledge the balance of power that exists that I have described here. Otherwise, sorcs woulda been nerfed a long time ago. There isn't some grand conspiracy here, yall just need to learn to play.

^Basically this.

I feel like people don't realize how counters work in this game and are triggered easily.

You mean as triggered sorcs get when someone is using shieldbreaker?? yea I get you