PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Item Sets & Asylum Weapons

Dymence · September 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

show previous quotes

Dymence wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

They are still the strongest for PVE. Being able to put a damage enchant (e.g. shock, fire) actually makes them stronger than before.

Wrong. The damage enchant can be placed on a normal set item and on special weapons, making it irrelevant to comparing the two. The relevant difference for this comparison is that a regular set items can offer a universal, general stat buff while the special weapon now offers only a specific buff to one skill. On most of the special weapons, the modest buffs to a single skill cannot possibly outperform the 4/5 set piece bonuses of standard item set weapons. In order to make the special weapons better, they need to keep their general stat buff intact.

And yet this 'modest' skill buff will always win out against an extra 5 piece.

There's a reason why everyone runs them. And it's not the stat buff. These weapons are on the backbar 90% of the time.

Let that sink in.

So in your world the only vMA weapons are bow and destro? The proposed nerf just puts DW, 2h, restro VMA weapons even further behind because their effect wasn't so powerful and so the added WD was needed to sweeten the deal.

And you're wrong about this change being a buff. Guess what? Infused will no longer buff the VMA effect (hail damage or wall bonus), and doubly the weapon damage is gone so that's not being buffed. Infused will be the worst trait if you actually use the maelstrom ability. Better off with precise or nirn to buff maelstrom effect, but then no infused damage glyph. Further, by your own acknowledgement the VMA weap is on back bar and so a damage glyph will not be triggered so often.

"Stronger than before." haha. Sure. Look at the big picture not just the glyph vs WD debate.

The bow is getting a slight nerf through infused not affecting it anymore, but stamina is getting more buffs this patch anyways with Master and Asylum dual wield.

A vMA staff will be buffed as a damage enchant will proc at least twice when you swap to backbar to refresh dots, which outweighs 189 spell damage that generally isn't active by far.

Most of the other weapons just aren't gonna see any use because they're not good by design. Having a stat on it wouldn't change that.

Master Dual wield+2 5p Sets is worse than Support set + Velidreth + Automaton for example.... I tested it a lot last night and today, and i was always behind the old 5+5+Monster Set Builds.

For solo dummy a support set is always going to boost you ahead of other setups.

kojou · September 2017

Did you find that the Master and Maelstrom weapons were correctly changed from an enchantment to an item set?

Yes

Did you get your additional free shield?

Yes

Were you able to clearly tell the difference between the Asylum and Perfect Asylum weapons?

Yes

What did you think about the new crafted item sets?

Innate Axiom: There is probably a PvP build out there that this is perfect for. I think most other DPS rotations involve too many non-class abilities though for this to be used in raids.

Fortified Brass: Interesting option for just having a lot of mitigation... I like good bread and butter sets like this, but with no group bonuses or utility it won't make it to Trials. Again there is probably a PvP build this is perfect for though.

Mechanical Acuity: Duration is too low, chance is too low, or cool down is too high for most builds... Could be fun on a PvP Stamplar though.

All the sets seem very PvP Hybrid oriented. I like that they are good for either Magicka or Stamina, and I think that is a good trend, but I would like to see something that works in Raids too.

Were you able to successfully craft them?

Didn't try yet.

What did you think about the new dropped item sets from Clockwork City?

Mad Tinkerer: This looks like enormous fun, although I would say in group and trials it won't see much use because it will give CC immunity to things the tank is trying to pull. In PvP I can't wait to try it...

Unfathomable Darkness: Will see some use in PvP and subsequent nerf requests in the forums when someone dies from it.

Livewire: Love this one, its like Leeching Plate with a group benefit. I really hope this takes the place of Alkosh on Tanks. Will have to see how concussion uptime is with the new Asylum staves first, but I have a feeling this will be a popular tank set...

Edit... On second thought it would be better if the Livewire set proc'ed off-balance than concussion. With the new desto staff the effect is basically redundant.

Were you able to find/learn the new motifs? If so, did you like their appearance?

Didn't look...I hate the associated thieving grinds for new motifs, so I don't farm them any more. If thieving is required for these I won't farm them either.

Did you receive any rewards from the new Dailies?

Didn't do dailies.

Do you have any other general feedback?

I don't like the way the new 2 piece Master/VMA/Asylum sets are. You have to give up a monster bonus to get them since they take 2 slots. I think giving them a 1 piece bonus of Stamina or Health would offset that a little. Probably means you would have to do the same with the 2 handed weapons to make them all balanced.

itsfatbass · September 2017

Some comments saying that other magicka classes may be forced to use force pulse now. Sorry but NO NO NO! Templar's spammable is ALSO our only reliable form of self healing (PvE wise)... we CANNOT get rid of it. ZoS, you really messed this one up...

Anne_Firehawk · September 2017

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Some comments saying that other magicka classes may be forced to use force pulse now. Sorry but NO NO NO! Templar's spammable is ALSO our only reliable form of self healing... we CANNOT get rid of it. ZoS, you really messed this one up...

Other classes can't really sustain Force Pulse without losing ridiculous amount of DPS.

Neoauspex · September 2017

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

Do you have any other general feedback?

I don't like the way the new 2 piece Master/VMA/Asylum sets are. You have to give up a monster bonus to get them since they take 2 slots. I think giving them a 1 piece bonus of Stamina or Health would offset that a little. Probably means you would have to do the same with the 2 handed weapons to make them all balanced.

Seconded, but I don't think you'd have to add 1 piece bonuses to the 2 handed weapons since they are generally balanced around giving 1 less set bonus anyway. Range vs an extra set piece or 2 hander just being better than everything else, etc.

Vaoh · September 2017

Masel92 wrote: »

I don't see a lot of tested feedback here... Can you test the items before calling them "underwhelming" or "overpowered"?

Because that is feedback the devs can actually rely on, rather than just saying "seems op" or "isn't competitive".

^^^^
I'm seeing some weapons not even mentioned in this thread which look insanely powerful. Likewise there are tons of comments about the Asylum Destro one day after the patch notes released with zero testing done. For the most part it is the 2H Ult QQ all over again but magnified because it ties into a Magicka Sorc's toolkit (well, all Mag classes, but since Mag Sorc is included it is now an OP weapon).

I think the best solution would be to not allow the Imperfect Asylum Weapons, which everyone will have to access to, to have separate cooldowns per target. Possibly even increase the cooldown to 6sec. The enchant itself has no reason to be changed/nerfed into uselessness.

Gan Xing · September 2017

@ztyhurstub17_ESO One of the few who follow the template

As for those crafted sets I think they would work very well with a Sorc or Templar. It would be harder to use it with other classes, but doable... I'm planning on putting more practice in tonight, but I need to have access to my characters, and not be forced to make a template just in order to test things.

kojou · September 2017

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Some comments saying that other magicka classes may be forced to use force pulse now. Sorry but NO NO NO! Templar's spammable is ALSO our only reliable form of self healing (PvE wise)... we CANNOT get rid of it. ZoS, you really messed this one up...

You will probably have 1 or 2 at the most players in a raid with this staff anyway since it is a debuff to the boss. If 2 can sustain the effects 100% then why have a 3rd player with it?

My guess is the 2 players will be Sorcerers and Nightblades running it in a ranged configuration.

Riggsy · September 2017

Many of The Master and The Maelstrom Item Sets have undergone significant rebalancing:

Titanic Cleave (Master 2H): Increased the damage bonus to Cleave’s direct damage to 2000 from 688.

Puncturing Remedy (Master 1H&S): Increased the heal amount from Puncture to 2500 from 2150, and it now grants you Spell and Physical Resistance equal to the amount healed for 3 seconds.

Stinging Slashes (Master DW): Increased the damage bonus to Twin Slashes’ bleed to 1500 each tick from 516.

Destructive Impact (Master Destro): Increased the damage bonus to Destructive Touch’s direct damage to 1500 from 516.

Rampaging Slash (Maelstrom 1H&S): Your Low Slash will now cause your next fully-charged Heavy Attack used within 5 seconds to restore an additional 2000 Magicka and Stamina.

Precise Regeneration (Maelstrom Resto): Increased the amount of Magicka restored by Regeneration critical heals to 800 from 481.

Where is the information on the Master/Mael Bows? What about the Mael 2h? Was it posted elsewhere, what am I missing?

ZOS_GinaBruno · September 2017

Riggsy wrote: »

show previous quotes

Many of The Master and The Maelstrom Item Sets have undergone significant rebalancing:

Titanic Cleave (Master 2H): Increased the damage bonus to Cleave’s direct damage to 2000 from 688.

Puncturing Remedy (Master 1H&S): Increased the heal amount from Puncture to 2500 from 2150, and it now grants you Spell and Physical Resistance equal to the amount healed for 3 seconds.

Stinging Slashes (Master DW): Increased the damage bonus to Twin Slashes’ bleed to 1500 each tick from 516.

Destructive Impact (Master Destro): Increased the damage bonus to Destructive Touch’s direct damage to 1500 from 516.

Rampaging Slash (Maelstrom 1H&S): Your Low Slash will now cause your next fully-charged Heavy Attack used within 5 seconds to restore an additional 2000 Magicka and Stamina.

Precise Regeneration (Maelstrom Resto): Increased the amount of Magicka restored by Regeneration critical heals to 800 from 481.

Where is the information on the Master/Mael Bows? What about the Mael 2h? Was it posted elsewhere, what am I missing?

We didn't change anything with the Master/Maelstrom Bows and 2H sets.

Riggsy · September 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

Riggsy wrote: »

Many of The Master and The Maelstrom Item Sets have undergone significant rebalancing:

Titanic Cleave (Master 2H): Increased the damage bonus to Cleave’s direct damage to 2000 from 688.

Puncturing Remedy (Master 1H&S): Increased the heal amount from Puncture to 2500 from 2150, and it now grants you Spell and Physical Resistance equal to the amount healed for 3 seconds.

Stinging Slashes (Master DW): Increased the damage bonus to Twin Slashes’ bleed to 1500 each tick from 516.

Destructive Impact (Master Destro): Increased the damage bonus to Destructive Touch’s direct damage to 1500 from 516.

Rampaging Slash (Maelstrom 1H&S): Your Low Slash will now cause your next fully-charged Heavy Attack used within 5 seconds to restore an additional 2000 Magicka and Stamina.

Precise Regeneration (Maelstrom Resto): Increased the amount of Magicka restored by Regeneration critical heals to 800 from 481.

Where is the information on the Master/Mael Bows? What about the Mael 2h? Was it posted elsewhere, what am I missing?

We didn't change anything with the Master/Maelstrom Bows and 2H sets.

So they lost their bonus damage modifier but kept the enchant (turned ability), expect without damage added to Merciless Charge/Thunderous Volley itself? Sucky.

NyassaV · September 2017

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Utterly useless weapons for magicka templar dps or any magicka dps class not using force pulse. I thought your goal was to improve build diversity, not META it into specifics points. Very disappointed

I have to agree with this. Desto spamable is nice and dandy but there are class spamables that people enjoy using

victoriana-blue · September 2017

To the people who don't like that the imperfect weapons drop on normal: think about it like the difference between purple and gold jewellery. Gold is superior by a small amount and is only available in vet trials (or the Golden, if you're lucky). Purple jewellery is enough for most players, but the gold is still better.

Yngol · September 2017

victoriana-blue wrote: »

To the people who don't like that the imperfect weapons drop on normal: think about it like the difference between purple and gold jewellery. Gold is superior by a small amount and is only available in vet trials (or the Golden, if you're lucky). Purple jewellery is enough for most players, but the gold is still better.

I'm not disagreeing with the principle, but the difference could be a bit bigger imo.

ManDraKE · September 2017

don't remove the extra wpn/spell damage from master/maelstorm, it completely kills the items, the enchanment is useless in most of the cases, the best thing (or the only good thing about them) was the ability of run 5piece set+3jewerly+2monster+1vma, please don't kill an entire family of builds just because.

And the asylum destro is broken af if it works as described in the patch notes, is absurd.

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

Ran some dummy tests to provide more feedback. To many variables for me to go through every set combination I tried. I settled on 5 Briarheart 5 TFS, with Asylum Bow primary bar and VMA bow back bar, I ran both infused with Weapon Damage boost enchants and Lover Mundus.

After getting a feel for the setup I then ran three successive burns. I traded out Rearming trap from my primary setup for Acid Spray in order to gain benefit of Asylum Bow. I couldn't afford to consistently cast trap and Acid Spray so it was the logical replacement. Tests were done within 5m to remove error from different range benefits from Long Shots.

Asylum 1:

Spoiler

[img][/img]

Asylum 2:

Spoiler

[img][/img]

Asylum 3:

Spoiler

I then swapped out the Asylum Bow for an Infused Master Bow and swapped Acid Spray out for Rearming Trap.

Master 1:

Spoiler

Master 2:

Spoiler

Master 3:

Spoiler

As you can see the Master Bow is clearly ahead of the Asylum Bow by a pretty large margin.

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

Interestingly enough I was able to get better results by just dropping the Asylum bow and adding a 1 piece Kena:

Spoiler

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

I reiterate the Asylum Bow is just bad for PVE content.

TimeWizard · September 2017

Could we please get a group utility resto staff?

No one uses maelstrom resto and noone will use Asylum resto because THEY DO NOTHING FOR YOUR GROUP.

Healers and tanks both and there for group buffing meaning that if the weapons or sets do not directly increase the dps of your group then they are not worth running.

Master resto is good because it helps sustain stam dps and gives the tanks resourses. Give us an Asylum resto equal or better so that it is worth giving up the master staff for.

casparian · September 2017

Quite disappointed with the change to Maelstrom weapons. They now have extremely limited use in PVP, after losing their weapon damage bonus.

Given that my collection of maelstrom 2H axes are not useful in endgame PVE content, and are now no different than a crafted non-set random weapon in PVP (since like a lot of stamblades and stamplars in PVP, I don't use Critical Charge), all the work I put into getting a Maelstrom 2H in a decent trait now turns out to have been for nothing. I guess it's good I hadn't put work into getting destruction staves yet in PVP traits yet; this saves me the trouble.

ZOS, this isn't fun, it's disheartening.

(What's more, I now find myself wondering: Why should I put work into getting Asylum weapons? The last time I put work into unique weapons that dropped only from top-tier endgame content, you removed what made them useful in the first place.)

manny254 · September 2017

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

show previous quotes

Riggsy wrote: »

Many of The Master and The Maelstrom Item Sets have undergone significant rebalancing:

Titanic Cleave (Master 2H): Increased the damage bonus to Cleave’s direct damage to 2000 from 688.

Puncturing Remedy (Master 1H&S): Increased the heal amount from Puncture to 2500 from 2150, and it now grants you Spell and Physical Resistance equal to the amount healed for 3 seconds.

Stinging Slashes (Master DW): Increased the damage bonus to Twin Slashes’ bleed to 1500 each tick from 516.

Destructive Impact (Master Destro): Increased the damage bonus to Destructive Touch’s direct damage to 1500 from 516.

Rampaging Slash (Maelstrom 1H&S): Your Low Slash will now cause your next fully-charged Heavy Attack used within 5 seconds to restore an additional 2000 Magicka and Stamina.

Precise Regeneration (Maelstrom Resto): Increased the amount of Magicka restored by Regeneration critical heals to 800 from 481.

Where is the information on the Master/Mael Bows? What about the Mael 2h? Was it posted elsewhere, what am I missing?

We didn't change anything with the Master/Maelstrom Bows and 2H sets.

Removing the bonus stats from them is a huge change to how they perform and are used in PVP. These bonus stats on live are effectively a set bonus that the weapons provide. So to a veteran player it would be inaccurate to say that nothing was changed with those Master/Maelstrom Weapons sets.

As it stands on PTS the VMA and Master weapons have the same value as non set weapons in many of the PVP builds they are commonly used in. Really the only commonly used items that are safe from being useless in PVP are the VMA resto and Master bow.

itsfatbass · September 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

show previous quotes

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Some comments saying that other magicka classes may be forced to use force pulse now. Sorry but NO NO NO! Templar's spammable is ALSO our only reliable form of self healing... we CANNOT get rid of it. ZoS, you really messed this one up...

Other classes can't really sustain Force Pulse without losing ridiculous amount of DPS.

Mag sorc can of course o0...

Karmanorway · September 2017

I think the asylum weapons are good, and balanced. I play as magsorc and i never use force pulse at all since it does so little damage compared to class skills, so i must say im pretty excited to get my hands on that destro staff, and having a reason to try out a new build, (pet build is getting too boring) ☺

Camb0Sl1ce · September 2017

if i may say something regarding the asylum destro, I myself am a pve player, i pvp once in a while. also i do not run pets, ive watched my damage drop from homestead drop quite a bit from 38k down to 35-36kish if im lucky. Regarding the destro i can say that for "most" sorcs at least on xbox it wont matter because all of the pet sorcs i know dont run force pulse. So for me as of right now the staff would help non-pet sorcs compete wiith their ccounterparts. Now regarding pvp I dont know the impact, but i would rather leave that alone because in my opinion the game has hurt itself in trying to balance both equally.

IxSTALKERxI · September 2017

Timeless Blessing (Perfected)

When you cast Blessing of Protection, the cost of your next Grand Healing, Regeneration, or Steadfast Ward used within 5 seconds is reduced by 50%.

Out of all the weapons this has to be the most underwhelming. Grand Healing and Regeneration are not expensive abilities to cast. Steadfast Ward costs a bit but what is the point in casting it after you've already cast a burst heal - blessing of protection.

In comparison to the other weapons this one needs a bit more work imo.

idk · September 2017

jphipps85b14_ESO1 wrote: »

Utterly useless weapons for magicka templar dps or any magicka dps class not using force pulse. I thought your goal was to improve build diversity, not META it into specifics points. Very disappointed

Considering each special weapon has affected a specific skill in the line the new weapons make sense. vMA weapons still affect the WoE.

Jsmalls · September 2017

Disappointed to hear the stat bonus is lost in vMA weapons, what was even the point of allowing you to enchant them then?

189 permanent spell damage is basically the equivalent of 350 with 50% uptime. Problem was it wasn't a set item so it wasn't worth it, moving the special enchant to an item set doesn't change it's worth. It'll still be back barred regardless, if it kept the 189 and allowed an enchant, then the weapons would become useful...

kaithuzar · September 2017

Brrrofski wrote: »

show previous quotes

StopDropAndBear wrote: »

Force Pulse is a destro staff skill. Everyone with a destro staff can use it, not just sorcs. If the weapon is strong, fit it into your rotation. If it's not, don't use it.

Which nobody uses in PvP. Only sorcs. Because other classes have class spammables. So we can all be the same and just spam crushing shock now? Sounds fun.

Honestly, nobody except sorcs use it. Nobody.

This is not true at all.
I've used crushing shock for years on my magblade

DRXHarbinger · September 2017

Why is everyone on here saying this is great for sorcs?? I take it no one plays Magdk anymore (or knows how to play one) This Asylum inferno is EPIC, The amount of power Lash procs is stupidly Good. Powerlash consumes it and yay another Crushing shock = Another Powerlash. Serious buff to DK's has been had here.

The downside is, good luck fighting anyone as a Templar, everyone will run crushing shock now, interrupt you're jab and then incomes some serious damage, Magplar more than anything. 2 interrupts and all stamina is gone, can't jab anymore as it'll be the death of you.

Zer0oo · September 2017

Both the Asylum bow and dw are really awkward to use in pve. You have to use an aoe skill to boost your next more less single bow/dw target skill? I really can see any kind of pve rotation in which i want to use Asylum dw or bow. Arrow spray then a single target skill repeat? (Same for dw)

The only good thing about dw is that it also buffs the ulti, but still really awkward to use a steeltornado be for continuing to single target dps your target, and i dont think it is worth to give up another 5piece or monster set for something that has so limited use.

A suggestion: change them to make all asylum weapons, when used the specific skill, also apply a debuff on the target for 2 sec(only 2 sec so you need more than 1 person to keep the debuff up) that can stack 5 times and it increases the damage done to the target by the specific weapon skill line by 2% for all players. (e.g 10% more bow damage for all players or 10% more dw damage for all players...). For the destro i would make it that it buffs elem damage(or magic+destro skills) instead of only destro skills since magica user use alot more class skills. That would make them alot more useful in pve.