PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Item Sets & Asylum Weapons

Qbiken

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why is everyone on here saying this is great for sorcs?? I take it no one plays Magdk anymore (or knows how to play one) This Asylum inferno is EPIC, The amount of power Lash procs is stupidly Good. Powerlash consumes it and yay another Crushing shock = Another Powerlash. Serious buff to DK's has been had here.

The downside is, good luck fighting anyone as a Templar, everyone will run crushing shock now, interrupt you're jab and then incomes some serious damage, Magplar more than anything. 2 interrupts and all stamina is gone, can't jab anymore as it'll be the death of you.

Most serious raiding guilds doesn´t bring magDK´s into a vTrials anyway, since they doesn´t offer anything special that another class/build can do equally good or even better. 4 Stamina Melee´s + 4 magicka range is "the way" to go :P

Haven´t been able to test much on the PTS yet, but so far the Asylumshield is really promising for PvP. Why even bother nerfing sustain with Morrowind and then add sets that gives you back magicka on absorbing an projectile??

Asmael

Nota: The following statements are based on my opinion on Asylum DW daggers after using those in the new trial in veteran mode. I am not considering purely numbers yet, this will be part of a later post.

I don't think the DW Asylum weapons are any worth as it stands in PvE (nor PvP but one subject at a time).

The biggest drawback is that to actually get any sort of benefit from it, you need to constantly have Steel Tornado slotted for it to work in boss fights. This is a problem in the sense that your bars are already extremely cluttered, and you are already required to swap abilities mid-run a lot. Stamina DKs for instance already don't have enough room without sacrificing a utility tool (Vigor in my case), as all slots already see use.

Just to give a quick idea on why it's hard getting any benefit from those:

Stamina DK (AoE setup)
DW: Deadly cloak / Rending slashes / Steel tornado / Venomous claw / Rearming trap // Lacerate morph
Bow: Molten armaments / Vigor / Poison Injection / Endless Hail / Razor caltrops // Flawless Dawnbreaker

With this setup, there is no point using Steel tornado to refresh Rending slashes or Deadly cloak, only Lacerate, simply because you'll naturally refresh those on your next rotation, since you have enough time to do it.

So the other possible setup is to move an ability to the backbar and put a spammable (rapid strikes or Shrouded daggers usually) on the front bar:

Stamina DK (AoE setup with ST spammable)
DW: Deadly cloak / Rending slashes / Steel tornado / Venomous claw / <spammable> // Lacerate morph
Bow: Molten armaments / Rearming trap / Poison Injection / Endless Hail / Razor caltrops // Flawless Dawnbreaker

Which means you are basically going to do a full rotation where you will refresh Rending slashes and Deadly cloak every other sub-rotation. For short, something like this:

Pattern A
LA > Caltrops > LA > Endless Hail > LA > Poison Injection (swap) > LA Rearming trap (swap)
HA > Venomous claw > HA > Rending slashes > HA > Deadly cloak > LA > Steel tornado (swap)

Pattern B
LA > Caltrops > LA > Endless Hail > LA > Poison Injection (swap) > LA Rearming trap (swap)
HA > Venomous claw > [HA > <spammable>]*2 > LA > Spammable (swap)

And you still have multiple issues:

• Lacerate is a pretty bad ultimate to deal with trash packs, as it has a very long duration. Those same trash packs, supposing you actually damage them all, still need to die in more than the base ability duration for it to be worth it.
• You are essentially losing 2 bonus pieces to be able to use weapons, which in itself is a big loss. This means either no monster helmet or losing a 4th & 5th piece on your front bar
• Since most of the benefit from using the Asylum daggers is to empower Lacerate, this means that how readily available your ultimate is dictates how good the DW weapons are. Except in a lot of cases, better ultimates can do the job (Standard of Might, Dawnbreaker for AoE burst against trash packs or targets that need to be killed quickly, e.g bombers in HoF), or you need to hold onto your ultimate due to boss being immune. Lacerate suffers in part from the same issue Standard has, in the sense that you need to guarantee that your target will be fully debuffed (and yourself fully buffed) for the next 15 or 23 seconds. Boss immunities (HoF 4th & 5th boss, MoL twins) are a big deal in this case or otherwise unability to get close to the boss when required (e.g Storm atronach) means you're also losing part of the benefit from this
• Due to more "niche" use of those daggers, you will be required to swap your gear mid-run to optimize it. This is reason enough for console players to never ever consider Asylum weapons as a possible option, even if they happen to be a better weapon in some cases.

Overall, not convinced. More information later on.

DRXHarbinger

Qbiken wrote: »

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DRXHarbinger wrote: »

Why is everyone on here saying this is great for sorcs?? I take it no one plays Magdk anymore (or knows how to play one) This Asylum inferno is EPIC, The amount of power Lash procs is stupidly Good. Powerlash consumes it and yay another Crushing shock = Another Powerlash. Serious buff to DK's has been had here.

The downside is, good luck fighting anyone as a Templar, everyone will run crushing shock now, interrupt you're jab and then incomes some serious damage, Magplar more than anything. 2 interrupts and all stamina is gone, can't jab anymore as it'll be the death of you.

Most serious raiding guilds doesn´t bring magDK´s into a vTrials anyway, since they doesn´t offer anything special that another class/build can do equally good or even better. 4 Stamina Melee´s + 4 magicka range is "the way" to go :P

Haven´t been able to test much on the PTS yet, but so far the Asylumshield is really promising for PvP. Why even bother nerfing sustain with Morrowind and then add sets that gives you back magicka on absorbing an projectile??

Only for the moment, but my reference was more from a PVP perspective. You can literally keep powerlashing over and over.

But for PVE that'll change soon I'm sure, this is ESO after all.

Tethalion

For Innate Axiom to work in PvE, assuming it's intended to allow better viability for hybrid builds, it either cannot be restricted to class abilities only, or there would need to be significant changes/balancing required so that all classes have access to enough morphs into stamina (since all class skills are magicka based by default) for this set to be justified.

Example: A Dragonknight has only 2 stamina morphs in all three class skill-lines combined, where as Nightblades have many more.

jbjondeaueb17_ESO

To be more useful, the new Resto staff could be :
Timeless Blessing (Perfected) :
When you cast Blessing of Protection, players are granted Minor Lifesteal and Minor Magickasteal for 5 seconds.

And a fix to the Master Resto staff giving back Stamina around you and not to players inside Grand Healing would be greatly appreciated.

Bladerunner1

Mechanical Acuity:

I spotted this right away in the patch notes and immediately thought about my stamblade. The 5 second duration and 18 second cooldown is perfect for coinciding with incapacitating strike / soul harvest.

My Bosmer nightblade has had a somewhat low crit rating ever since HOTR. After intentionally further reducing my crit rating on the PTS and replacing my daggers with Acuity axes, I tested this set solo against a dummy and noticed it lifted my DPS a bit. That's after 2 tries, I wanted to do other things so I left off there. It might grow after I tweak things a bit more.

Nightblade stamina DPS isn't a consistent number, it's really low on the bow bar and really high on the dual wield bar, especially after incapacitating strike. If you get a guaranteed 5 seconds worth of crit after every time you use soul harvest / incapacitating strike while on the dual wield bar it can add to the average DPS, at least it does with the rotation I've been using. I wanted to bring this up now on the PTS so it doesn't get nerfed after release. . . after I use tempers on some axes.

Feanor

The gap between the asylum weapons that drop on normal mode and the perfect weapons is way too small.

Anhedonie

Nobody can sustain Force Pulse in PvE anyway, so destro staff is only useful for pvp.

Riggsy

manny254 wrote: »

Removing the bonus stats from them is a huge change to how they perform and are used in PVP. These bonus stats on live are effectively a set bonus that the weapons provide. So to a veteran player it would be inaccurate to say that nothing was changed with those Master/Maelstrom Weapons sets.

As it stands on PTS the VMA and Master weapons have the same value as non set weapons in many of the PVP builds they are commonly used in. Really the only commonly used items that are safe from being useless in PVP are the VMA resto and Master bow.

Yeah, its garbage. All those mael 2-handers, without the added damage, are now worthless. Meanwhile ZOS overhauls the other weapons, why?

PLEASE ZOS, consider either leaving in the damage bonus of Master/Mael weps you didnt change or rework their bonus to make them somewhat useful.

Tethalion wrote: »

For Innate Axiom to work in PvE, assuming it's intended to allow better viability for hybrid builds, it either cannot be restricted to class abilities only, or there would need to be significant changes/balancing required so that all classes have access to enough morphs into stamina (since all class skills are magicka based by default) for this set to be justified.

Example: A Dragonknight has only 2 stamina morphs in all three class skill-lines combined, where as Nightblades have many more.

I thought about bringing this up in the DK thread. As a stam dk only 3 of my 12 skills are DK specific (and 2 aren't even stam based), while the other 9 are non-class skills everyone gets. This means that set is utterly useless despite having some awesome promise. I really wish they'd rework DK skill lines but that wont happen.

Baracuta

I posted a new thread about this before I saw this, but I'll say it here just in-case it isn't seen.

The Bloodroot medium armour's leather is too glossy. It is impossible to find a good colour on it because it looks like it is constantly soaking with oil.
Give the leather of the Bloodroot medium armour the same visual qualities of the leather in the Bloodroot heavy armour, and it will be a massive improvement.

SanTii.92

Feedback: Both Piercing Spray and Timeless Blessing effects seems rather unimaginative and, most importantly, quite weak. I'd like to see them reworked.

Neoauspex

Could somebody on PTS test if the magic return from asylum sword n board works on the off bar?

NBrookus

Riggsy wrote: »

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Tethalion wrote: »

For Innate Axiom to work in PvE, assuming it's intended to allow better viability for hybrid builds, it either cannot be restricted to class abilities only, or there would need to be significant changes/balancing required so that all classes have access to enough morphs into stamina (since all class skills are magicka based by default) for this set to be justified.

Example: A Dragonknight has only 2 stamina morphs in all three class skill-lines combined, where as Nightblades have many more.

I thought about bringing this up in the DK thread. As a stam dk only 3 of my 12 skills are DK specific (and 2 aren't even stam based), while the other 9 are non-class skills everyone gets. This means that set is utterly useless despite having some awesome promise. I really wish they'd rework DK skill lines but that wont happen.

Useless to you, perhaps, but magplars and magDKs rely heavily on class skills and the extra stamina is very useful for both. Being craftable is just gravy.

It may be intended as a hybrid set, but I suspect it will get used mostly by mDK, mPlar and maybe mNB in pvp.

Sizaansil

I tested Mechanical Acuity and found it to be overperforming a bit.
My class was Magicka Templar, with double precise destro (Inferno Perfect Asylumn / Lightning Maelstrom) and tested quickly on a dummy together with Overwhelming Surge. Got 32.5k DPS.
I then only swapped Acuity for Julianos and changed absolutely nothing else. 31.5k DPS.
I did the tests several times and found more or less the same values.
My critical chance was 50% average and my crit modifier 1.751.
I found it too strong especially when considering that one of the bonus is useless (a 4 seconds effect could be enough ?).
Has anyone else noticed the same thing ?

Dymence

Sizaansil wrote: »

I tested Mechanical Acuity and found it to be overperforming a bit.
My class was Magicka Templar, with double precise destro (Inferno Perfect Asylumn / Lightning Maelstrom) and tested quickly on a dummy together with Overwhelming Surge. Got 32.5k DPS.
I then only swapped Acuity for Julianos and changed absolutely nothing else. 31.5k DPS.
I did the tests several times and found more or less the same values.
My critical chance was 50% average and my crit modifier 1.751.
I found it too strong especially when considering that one of the bonus is useless (a 4 seconds effect could be enough ?).
Has anyone else noticed the same thing ?

Don't know about overpeforming. 18s cooldown is insane enough to make it pretty much useless imo.

Shinshadow

I would still rather have the master and maelstrom weapons be left alone, and give the weapon damage bonus and keep their unique enchants. Because on the live server, you can still equip one master dagger, and one maelstrom dagger, and get the best of both worlds, even though the maelstrom dagger would only have a 50% chance to proc and you can still get some bonus bleed damage. As a "set bonus" you can't do any of that. That and as a werewolf playing character and pvper, you need as much weapon damage as possible to actually be effective. Werewolves practically have no love at all in PvE content, and this additional weapon damage given by maelstrom and master weapons help with that. Right now, on the live server, it is no longer that cookie cutter "meta" and it still promotes creativity among players to customize their gear to go along with the skills and builds that they want to actually reach. That enchantment is what makes them unique, because without it, and the bonus weapon/magic damage, you might as well just go get a crafted weapon or one from another set piece.

Attica-Centurius

Eloha everybudy,

After some consideration and reading the other posts here is my (general) feedback on the new Asylum Weapons (and redo of Master/vMA weapons)
Mostly speaking from PvE end-game (and friendly-to-beginner) interest here, I hardly have any PvP experience so if any of these would seriously unbalance PvP please do correct me.

I don't mind the items dropping in normal versions of the dungeon, I always liked it when Dragonstar Arena dropped blue v15 items so that newer players could still get those. And by now this could also be introduced to vMA since other viable options now also exist (with extra's to come in the future) and with all the nerfs to previous dungeons it could be considered time that vMA drops slightly worse Maelstrom weapons on normal.

1. One hand and Shield
Since hardly any tank I currently know (myself included) ever use any of the master/vma and probably asylum weapons making this set need 2 pieces for a 1 piece bonus would further reduce the eagerness to use these sets.
So at first this... Maybe reconsider about making it able to mix Master with vMA shield and get both bonuses, this might make it at the bare minimum interesting to use.
The Master sword is only, at bare minimum, interesting when it can be combined with another vMA or Asylum piece.
The vMA really need a complete redo but can be easily fixed by making the heroic slash give major heroism.
About the Asylum weapon I'm drawing a bit of a blank but I'd rather have a reduce cost and taunt on shield charge then what is now proposed.

2. Bow
Am perfectly happy with the vMA and Master bow myself. Getting about the same or higher damage parse on pts then on live with same gear.
Asylum bow seems ... wierd ... my personal advice is be creative and do something with that skill which shoots you back (one morph execute spammable or something) or reduce the cast time of snipe, for all the pvp'ers out here?

3. Dual Wield
Haven't used dual wield since nerf on vMA weapons and never used Master but I could go on a limp and say the same might apply like with One hand and Shield, 2 weapons with both bonuses? (Some feedback here would be appreciated)
For Asylum again seems ... wierd ... my personal advice is be creative with shield cloak (increase damage like with vMA bow) or be creative with hidden dagger which nobody uses and make it an execute spammable (seems useless but heck that's why I say be creative and roleplay wise it does seem like the skill for it ^.^ )

3. Two Hander
I have not yet had a lot of usage for two handers but I'd say...wait...where are they in the patch notes? o.O

4. Resto staff
Come on seriously better options are available.
Make blessing of protection and its morphs double duration
Gives Force Siphon minor stamina steal and reduce cast time
Healing Ward gives Major Slayer
Healing Ward gives Major Protection

5. Destruction staff
Because of all the angry posts I'm going on a limp again and say stop this and be creative with Elemental Drain.
In that way healers can get a viable alternative and interesting staff to use.
Something like Elemental drain gives Major Magicka Steal and/or Minor Fracture and Minor Breach
And really far flung maybe just maybe if at all possible gives Pulsar Major Mangle on bosses?


Well that was my feedback, --> constructive <-- feedback always welcome

James-Wayne

Are we going to normal versions of the MA and DSA weapons added in the future simular to these new ones?

GeorgeBlack

Asylum swords that empower DW skill line.
Who told you that all Dual Wielders like to hold Axes and Daggers?
Where is play as you want?
You got Master weapons, maelstorm weapons, asylum weapons. Where is the difficulty in adding something for everybody? Don't just cater to number crunchers that don't care what their character looks like, as long as they win.

Darlon

Neoauspex wrote: »

Could somebody on PTS test if the magic return from asylum sword n board works on the off bar?

Yes, it does.

*Edit: previously thoguht it didn't, but that appears to be wrong...

tested it as follows:

First with asylum 1h/s on active bar:
asylum 1h/S on front bar, apply absorb magic... drain magicka (with random skill) and wait for absorb magic to run out, magicka buff is applied (as expected)

Second with asylum 1H/s on back bar (random sword/board on front bar):
switch to back bar, apply absorb magicka, swap to front bar, drain magicka and wait for absorb magic to run out.. magicka buff is also applied...

Sizaansil

Dymence wrote: »

Don't know about overpeforming. 18s cooldown is insane enough to make it pretty much useless imo.

I have to disagree here a high cooldown does not necessarly mean that it is pretty much useless. As I proved it.

Shinshadow

James-Wayne wrote: »

Are we going to normal versions of the MA and DSA weapons added in the future simular to these new ones?

If they do make it to where they can be achieved in normal runs, make it a v15 instead of a v16, so that way it isn't a slap in the face to those that did hours of grinding to get it accomplished on veteran mode

Dymence

Sizaansil wrote: »

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Dymence wrote: »

Don't know about overpeforming. 18s cooldown is insane enough to make it pretty much useless imo.

I have to disagree here a high cooldown does not necessarly mean that it is pretty much useless. As I proved it.

You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

Sizaansil

Dymence wrote: »

You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

I actually think group buffs will make the set stronger by increasing the crit modifier. Even though I might be wrong.

Yes it's an "odd" set I agree. The damage from it is ok but not amazing. I just happened to have it ready for the test so I kept it. Anyway the set can not crit which would make Mechanical Acuity even better (by a slight amount) with a "usual" set since Surge and Acuity do not interact.

Dymence

Sizaansil wrote: »

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Dymence wrote: »

You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

I actually think group buffs will make the set stronger by increasing the crit modifier. Even though I might be wrong.

Yes it's an "odd" set I agree. The damage from it is ok but not amazing. I just happened to have it ready for the test so I kept it. Anyway the set can not crit which would make Mechanical Acuity even better (by a slight amount) with a "usual" set since Surge and Acuity do not interact.

I will play around with it myself.

I still think 18s cooldown is overkill.

DDuke

Dymence wrote: »

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Sizaansil wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

I actually think group buffs will make the set stronger by increasing the crit modifier. Even though I might be wrong.

Yes it's an "odd" set I agree. The damage from it is ok but not amazing. I just happened to have it ready for the test so I kept it. Anyway the set can not crit which would make Mechanical Acuity even better (by a slight amount) with a "usual" set since Surge and Acuity do not interact.

I will play around with it myself.

I still think 18s cooldown is overkill.

Some quick math, not 100% sure I got this correct but:

Assuming it always procs on cooldown (which it won't with 15% proc chance), the maximum you can have is 27.78% uptime.

If we assume the PvE build has atleast 60% crit chance, you gain at best 40% crit chance for 5 seconds with this set.

27.78*0.4=11.112% "crit" from the 5-piece.

Leviathan/Mother's Sorrow give you 8.8% crit with better 2-4 set bonuses and aren't really worth using, so I doubt this new set will be either.


Perhaps it could be useful in some PvP heavy armor build with a very low crit chance, but if I was ZOS I'd still try to find a way to buff this set.

Dymence

DDuke wrote: »

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Dymence wrote: »

Sizaansil wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

I actually think group buffs will make the set stronger by increasing the crit modifier. Even though I might be wrong.

Yes it's an "odd" set I agree. The damage from it is ok but not amazing. I just happened to have it ready for the test so I kept it. Anyway the set can not crit which would make Mechanical Acuity even better (by a slight amount) with a "usual" set since Surge and Acuity do not interact.

I will play around with it myself.

I still think 18s cooldown is overkill.

Some quick math, not 100% sure I got this correct but:

Assuming it always procs on cooldown (which it won't with 15% proc chance), the maximum you can have is 27.78% uptime.

If we assume the PvE build has atleast 60% crit chance, you gain at best 40% crit chance for 5 seconds with this set.

27.78*0.4=11.112% "crit" from the 5-piece.

Leviathan/Mother's Sorrow give you 8.8% crit with better 2-4 set bonuses and aren't really worth using, so I doubt this new set will be either.


Perhaps it could be useful in some PvP heavy armor build with a very low crit chance, but if I was ZOS I'd still try to find a way to buff this set.

Yep, that's what I was thinking aswell.

The last thing this set needs is nerfs

Neoauspex

Darlon wrote: »

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Neoauspex wrote: »

Could somebody on PTS test if the magic return from asylum sword n board works on the off bar?

Yes, it does.

*Edit: previously thoguht it didn't, but that appears to be wrong...

tested it as follows:

First with asylum 1h/s on active bar:
asylum 1h/S on front bar, apply absorb magic... drain magicka (with random skill) and wait for absorb magic to run out, magicka buff is applied (as expected)

Second with asylum 1H/s on back bar (random sword/board on front bar):
switch to back bar, apply absorb magicka, swap to front bar, drain magicka and wait for absorb magic to run out.. magicka buff is also applied...

Thanks @Darlon . Still don't think this is worth giving up 5/5/2 for unless each piece gives a bonus. If the 1 piece was even just a stat bonus it would be more viable.

Sizaansil

Alright I agree with your calculations Deci and I see your point (you both). I'll try to figure out what gave me that extra dps.

Victus42

The Asylum Restoration Staff is extremely underwhelming. I cannot think of a single situation in which I would use it over the Master Restoration Staff.

I like that it is based around Blessing of Protection, but I feel there are other things that could have been done to make it much more useful. Such as making it give the buffs a longer duration, or even providing a shield to players healed with Blessing.

Please, please take a look at the Restoration Staff and consider changing it.