PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Item Sets & Asylum Weapons

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  • itsfatbass
    itsfatbass
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    idk wrote: »

    Considering each special weapon has affected a specific skill in the line the new weapons make sense. vMA weapons still affect the WoE.

    So why does the stamina weapons affect not only two skills, but also an ultimate?? They did NOT have to make the destro staff specifically for ONE ability. And don't forget VMA stamina bow already affects Volley too. Its poorly designed...
    Edited by itsfatbass on September 21, 2017 7:54PM
    ~PC/NA~ Magblade, Tankanist, Healplar, Stamcro, Oakensorc, Healden, Tanknight ~PLUR~
  • Dasovaruilos
    Dasovaruilos
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    Victus42 wrote: »
    The Asylum Restoration Staff is extremely underwhelming. I cannot think of a single situation in which I would use it over the Master Restoration Staff.

    I like that it is based around Blessing of Protection, but I feel there are other things that could have been done to make it much more useful. Such as making it give the buffs a longer duration, or even providing a shield to players healed with Blessing.

    Please, please take a look at the Restoration Staff and consider changing it.

    This.

    I sincerely, from the bottom of my heart, cannot, for the life of me, understand why ZOS just do not get that healers and tanks do NOT want sets that are selfish and only concerned about more healing and more tankiness.

    The meta for tanks and healers has ALWAYS been GROUP SUPPORT. And yet, patch after patch, the tanking and healing sets are all about more healing, more tankness. And we end up with "meta" from healers being the exact same since 2015, and tanks using DPS sets (like Alkosh or Torug's Pact).

    The Asylum Resto, following its cousing vMA Resto, is a perfect example of a total disconnect from this.

    Give us ANYTHING to give back for the group... Stam, Mag, more DPS, more regen... Anything to give our teammates during battles. Make Prayer give another Minor buff, extend its duration for 2 seconds... Give us 2 more secons of Prayer and I guarantee every group will want their healers running this. Or just copy the Dual Wield Asylum concept...

    The Asylum Resto is so underwhelming that it should just go back to the drawing board. One piece of a Monster Set and a regular set staff will be the meta, with the same old SPC / Worm / Mending, specially considering the nerf to Max Magicka in Master weapons.

    Edited by Dasovaruilos on September 21, 2017 8:02PM
  • Bladerunner1
    Bladerunner1
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    Dymence wrote: »

    You have to see the bigger picture. With group buffs it's more than likely to fall behind very fast.

    Not to mention your choice of complementary set was odd to say the least.

    So that's it? Just two people are gonna test Acuity? If you seriously want to judge the set, don't pair it with the current meta because it won't do much of anything.

    You have to drop crit buffs and embrace the other DPS buffing stats to truly test its capability.

    We need a top DPSer to come out with a result that shows it's either garbage or OP or something inbetween.

    Make an Acuity weapon or pair of weapons on whichever bar is the bursty DPS bar, like a Stamblade dual wield bar. In every second rotation the burst bar will deal 100% crit along with whichever DOTs are active.
    Edited by Bladerunner1 on September 21, 2017 8:02PM
  • Dymence
    Dymence
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    I have done some testing on Mechanical Acuity and here is my feedback on it.

    On a stationairy dummy it does well. It provides a lot of burst damage potential and it holds its own with the top tier sets out there in that regard.

    I also brought it to the new raid to play around with it, and it's a totally different game there. It's not a good set if you're going to fight bosses that are very heavy on mechanics, adds, and immunity phases.

    Far too often will your set proc just as a boss is going immune for instance, or focussing outside adds which you really don't need the extra damage for. All that's left then is a set with a dead 5 piece bonus. The fact that you cannot control the procs of the set makes the huge cooldown on it far too harsh.

    As it stands, it's only good for a training dummy and bosses that are practically training dummies.

    Dummy parse with Acuity for those interested:
    Spoiler
    TtXc47h.jpg
    Edited by Dymence on September 21, 2017 9:10PM
  • Mojmir
    Mojmir
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    Dymence wrote: »
    I have done some testing on Mechanical Acuity and here is my feedback on it.

    On a stationairy dummy it does well. It provides a lot of burst damage potential and it holds its own with the top tier sets out there in that regard.

    I also brought it to the new raid to play around with it, and it's a totally different game there. It's not a good set if you're going to fight bosses that are very heavy on mechanics, adds, and immunity phases.

    Far too often will your set proc just as a boss is going immune for instance, or focussing outside adds which you really don't need the extra damage for. All that's left then is a set with a dead 5 piece bonus. The fact that you cannot control the procs of the set makes the huge cooldown on it far too harsh.

    As it stands, it's only good for a training dummy and bosses that are practically training dummies.

    Dummy parse with Acuity for those interested:
    Spoiler
    TtXc47h.jpg

    So vet AA? :neutral:
  • Dymence
    Dymence
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    Mojmir wrote: »

    So vet AA? :neutral:

    All craglorn trials and the majority of vMoL
  • biciclettadicarne
    biciclettadicarne
    Soul Shriven
    I mostly like these changes but the buff to the vDSA 2h feels really really weak compared to the DW one, some love to 2h pve would be cool
  • Sizaansil
    Sizaansil
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    Alright thank you very much for the deep testing :)
    Then this set is not overfperforming
    Anne Lucerne - Factionless Templar - PC EU Server

    "[Let us] now take you Up. We will [show] our true faces... [which eat] one another in amnesia each Age" - The Song of Pelinal, Vol. 8
  • Bladerunner1
    Bladerunner1
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    I mostly like these changes but the buff to the vDSA 2h feels really really weak compared to the DW one, some love to 2h pve would be cool

    Agreed. 2H went through more nerf than buff this time around with what happened to the forceful passive, it's dealing almost 50% less damage, and cuts down AOE DPS a lot.
  • Rainphase
    Rainphase
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    PLEASE OH PLEASE READ THIS POST PLEASE

    The New Asylum Piercing Bow Is going to break the game in pvp and potentially pve.

    I am currently Critically Hitting with Snipe for 47.5k On a Target Dummy, and with some switching up on things I am almost certain I can hit 50k Crit.

    This is going to be absolutely ridiculous, great idea but no one thought of the stack up on things.

    PLEASE FIX BEFORE LIVE!!
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Rainphase wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    PLEASE OH PLEASE READ THIS POST PLEASE

    The New Asylum Piercing Bow Is going to break the game in pvp and potentially pve.

    I am currently Critically Hitting with Snipe for 47.5k On a Target Dummy, and with some switching up on things I am almost certain I can hit 50k Crit.

    This is going to be absolutely ridiculous, great idea but no one thought of the stack up on things.

    PLEASE FIX BEFORE LIVE!!

    That's pretty much the same as Assassin's Will from Merciless Resolve and about equally hard (if not harder, thanks to Miat's addon) to actually land on the opponent within 5 seconds of Acid Spray. The bow is fine as it is.
    Edited by DDuke on September 24, 2017 12:28AM
  • Rainphase
    Rainphase
    DDuke wrote: »

    That's pretty much the same as Assassin's Will from Merciless Resolve and about equally hard (if not harder, thanks to Miat's addon) to actually land on the opponent within 5 seconds of Acid Spray. The bow is fine as it is.

    You really need to do some testing before you speak.. SNIPE... Then arrow spray, by the time snipe hits Bam increased damage from arrow spray.. and its not the same as assassins will. Come to think on it also I wasn't even use Empower.. so you can increase that damage even more.
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Rainphase wrote: »

    You really need to do some testing before you speak.. SNIPE... Then arrow spray, by the time snipe hits Bam increased damage from arrow spray.. and its not the same as assassins will. Come to think on it also I wasn't even use Empower.. so you can increase that damage even more.

    I did test it, here's me posting on 2nd page of this thread, September 19th:
    DDuke wrote:
    I take back what I said about Asylum Bow on the previous page, it definitely has potential in PvP atleast and doesn't require further buffs/nerfs.

    What needs to be fixed is the API permitting addons like Miat's though, so we can have these fun bow builds exist.

    I was getting 55k crits on dummy with 5 Marksman & 5 Morag Tong. Also got a 20k crit on 7 impen heavy armor character ^^

    That's not the point however. The point is that all that damage is dodgeable (including Acid Spray) & Miat's addon is going to tell you exactly when to do that (even if opponent tries to attack from sneak). It'll almost never land.

    That said, I'd be fine even if it did. Bow needs all the help it can get in order to become competitive in PvP/PvE again as primary weapon.
    Edited by DDuke on September 24, 2017 12:57AM
  • dustmanvn
    dustmanvn
    Soul Shriven
    Removing vMA weapons/spell bonus dam make it completely not the unique weapons which everyone wants to acquire.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Rainphase wrote: »
    @ZOS_GinaBruno

    PLEASE OH PLEASE READ THIS POST PLEASE

    The New Asylum Piercing Bow Is going to break the game in pvp and potentially pve.

    I am currently Critically Hitting with Snipe for 47.5k On a Target Dummy, and with some switching up on things I am almost certain I can hit 50k Crit.

    This is going to be absolutely ridiculous, great idea but no one thought of the stack up on things.

    PLEASE FIX BEFORE LIVE!!

    No.

    You literally have no idea how dps works if you think getting a single high crit makes things work.

    This item has been tested and it is a flat DPS loss compared to every other bow combination.

    The only potential is for ganking, and that is virtually negated by the general function of Snipe. Which is to say nothing of a particular addon which renders all cast time attacks useless.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • SaintSubwayy
    SaintSubwayy
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    Alkosh 3pcs Bonus Minor Slayer still not fixed!
    PC EU
    vAA HM / vHRC HM / vSO HM / vMoL HM / vHoF HM / vAS HM / vCR HM / vSS HM / vKA HM

    Flawless Conqueror / Immortal Redeemer / Dawnbringer / Griphon Heart / Master Angler / Spirit Slayer

  • cschwingeb14_ESO
    cschwingeb14_ESO
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    Miats won't help you in a situation where someone in stealth does this:

    Cast snipe
    Immediately casts arrow spray (you are stunned by this)
    Snipe hits and receives damage buff
    (More attacks/executes)

    Both attacks auto crit due to stealth bonus

    Follow-up with ambush or birdspam :-)

  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Miats won't help you in a situation where someone in stealth does this:

    Cast snipe
    Immediately casts arrow spray (you are stunned by this)
    Snipe hits and receives damage buff
    (More attacks/executes)

    Both attacks auto crit due to stealth bonus

    Follow-up with ambush or birdspam :-)

    And why wouldn't it?

    You do know that Miat's addon shows the opponent's cast bar of Snipe (not just the projectile flying towards you)? You see the cast bar, you dodge - simple as that.

    Also, the stealth crit guarantee is only for the first attack that lands (in this case the Arrow Spray).


    But yeah, even without Miat's in the picture I wouldn't see a problem with that - bow needs something going for it and if it becomes the best ganking tool once again (after over two years of being subpar for that as well) then so be it.
    Edited by DDuke on September 27, 2017 7:09PM
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Miats won't help you in a situation where someone in stealth does this:

    Cast snipe
    Immediately casts arrow spray (you are stunned by this)
    Snipe hits and receives damage buff
    (More attacks/executes)

    Both attacks auto crit due to stealth bonus

    Follow-up with ambush or birdspam :-)

    With Miats when Snipe begins to cast they will see it regardless of stealth or not.
    Edited by Toc de Malsvi on September 27, 2017 8:44PM
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    DDuke wrote: »

    And why wouldn't it?

    You do know that Miat's addon shows the opponent's cast bar of Snipe (not just the projectile flying towards you)? You see the cast bar, you dodge - simple as that.

    Also, the stealth crit guarantee is only for the first attack that lands (in this case the Arrow Spray).


    But yeah, even without Miat's in the picture I wouldn't see a problem with that - bow needs something going for it and if it becomes the best ganking tool once again (after over two years of being subpar for that as well) then so be it.

    Have you made some PTS test with it? Just for ganking purposes I mean. I can do test only on dummy and as NB focused heavily on direct damage and crit damage with spriggan and automaton (so focused aim instead of lethal) with nirnhoned trait. I tried to make 2 fast comparisons. Everytime it was sneak, Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Empower, Cast snipe -> quickly cast supporting skill.
    1. Imperfect Asylum Bow (45% bonus) - Focused Aim + Bombard => 53229 crit damage
    2. Set bow and 1 piece kena - Focused Aim + Silver Shards => 48846 46997 crit damage

    So thats nearly 13% more damage. Shards landed after minor fracture applied (because why not if you can). Sure it is more damage, but I feel like it is not really worth it. Even tho shards are pretty bad I feel like you can use them better than bombard after the 'act'. Plus you can do it from nearly 40m range and not 20m. Plus you dont to go to any trial. Plus all the extra damage (from kena and 3% from shards) will be of better use after. Plus kragh would probably do better than kena (did not want to affect it too much).

    There is chance it performs better with marksmen (cant really test that on dummy), but I dont think that would be by a lot.

    If this is the best the bow can do (force you to run trial, force you to run awkward ability, force you to perform from close range and all for 13%, possibly few % more with perfect and marksmen, damage) then that's pretty weak. And I don't even want it to be good ganking tool. I want good fighting tool. But this is probably the best use for the current variation and it is barely better.
    Sorcs will be running in PVP with 90% uptime on 8% more damage taken and 15%(?) less damage done. Compared to that this does not even come close.

    //EDIT: Forgot there is the monster sneak damage bonus which is not in PVP. Bombard did not get it (TIL), but snipe did. So it got from 9% increase to 13%.
    Edited by SodanTok on September 27, 2017 11:36PM
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    Have you made some PTS test with it? Just for ganking purposes I mean. I can do test only on dummy and as NB focused heavily on direct damage and crit damage with spriggan and automaton (so focused aim instead of lethal) with nirnhoned trait. I tried to make 2 fast comparisons. Everytime it was sneak, Major Brutality, Minor Berserk, Empower, Cast snipe -> quickly cast supporting skill.
    1. Imperfect Asylum Bow (45% bonus) - Focused Aim + Bombard => 53229 crit damage
    2. Set bow and 1 piece kena - Focused Aim + Silver Shards => 48846 46997 crit damage

    So thats nearly 13% more damage. Shards landed after minor fracture applied (because why not if you can). Sure it is more damage, but I feel like it is not really worth it. Even tho shards are pretty bad I feel like you can use them better than bombard after the 'act'. Plus you can do it from nearly 40m range and not 20m. Plus you dont to go to any trial. Plus all the extra damage (from kena and 3% from shards) will be of better use after. Plus kragh would probably do better than kena (did not want to affect it too much).

    There is chance it performs better with marksmen (cant really test that on dummy), but I dont think that would be by a lot.

    If this is the best the bow can do (force you to run trial, force you to run awkward ability, force you to perform from close range and all for 13%, possibly few % more with perfect and marksmen, damage) then that's pretty weak. And I don't even want it to be good ganking tool. I want good fighting tool. But this is probably the best use for the current variation and it is barely better.
    Sorcs will be running in PVP with 90% uptime on 8% more damage taken and 15%(?) less damage done. Compared to that this does not even come close.

    //EDIT: Forgot there is the monster sneak damage bonus which is not in PVP. Bombard did not get it (TIL), but snipe did. So it got from 9% increase to 13%.

    Yeah, I did test it with a bit different gear - can't remember the exact numbers but I was getting 55k+ crits on dummy & got a 20k crit on 7 impen heavy armor player (with 5x Hawk Eye stacks though) without empower/sneak. Not that I think those really help much, as both apply to the Acid Spray since it lands first.

    I'd log in and get the exact numbers for you, but they removed PTS templates & I really cba to buy those Morag Tong/Marksman boxes again :P

    I'll just test it again when there's EU copies.


    One thing I'm afraid of is that people will just see the high burst damage potential & then think it's op and needs nerfs, without really seeing the big picture. The burst damage is the whole point of that bow, and if it's not enough to kill people then it's practically useless (just like bow in general) - I hope ZOS keeps this in mind.
    Edited by DDuke on September 28, 2017 12:43AM
  • ku5h
    ku5h
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    Brrrofski wrote: »

    Huge buff to sorc and sorc alone in PvP. Nobody else uses crushing shock.

    Sorc get reduced damage (which applies to shields by the way) a door and increase their damage. Flat out broken

    So basically what you'r saying is "huge buff to sorc coz she doesnt have class spammable". Every other class have other spammable to slot which is obviously better then pulse since they run it, but you cry about sorc because she doesnt have one and is forced to use weapon skill. Some ppl.....
    p.s. agree that asylum destro and 2H need toning down.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    DDuke wrote: »

    And why wouldn't it?

    You do know that Miat's addon shows the opponent's cast bar of Snipe (not just the projectile flying towards you)? You see the cast bar, you dodge - simple as that.

    Also, the stealth crit guarantee is only for the first attack that lands (in this case the Arrow Spray).


    But yeah, even without Miat's in the picture I wouldn't see a problem with that - bow needs something going for it and if it becomes the best ganking tool once again (after over two years of being subpar for that as well) then so be it.

    You know - stuff like this is the reason why i´m happy miats is in the game :blush:

    Crafty players finding ways to oneshot being denied so.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Derra wrote: »

    You know - stuff like this is the reason why i´m happy miats is in the game :blush:

    Crafty players finding ways to oneshot being denied so.

    Oh, crafty players finding ways to oneshot are still there in large. Miat just removes one oneshot scenario while fu**ing up ranged play style. But that is fair since it helps you more than it hurts you.
  • Derra
    Derra
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    SodanTok wrote: »

    Oh, crafty players finding ways to oneshot are still there in large. Miat just removes one oneshot scenario while fu**ing up ranged play style. But that is fair since it helps you more than it hurts you.

    I play a magsorc and a magblade.

    Every potatoe is able to dodge 100% of my burst skills. I don´t think it helps me more than it hurts me.
    <Noricum>
    I live. I die. I live again.

    Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
    Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 50

  • SodanTok
    SodanTok
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    Derra wrote: »

    I play a magsorc and a magblade.

    Every potatoe is able to dodge 100% of my burst skills. I don´t think it helps me more than it hurts me.
    I feel like it did not reach the lower levels yet, only the dedicated folks. When I run with potatoes and meet someone like you or other 1vX sorcs they usually cant even CC break let alone dodge them frags.

    Anyway, if you ever feel like seeing what it actually is to go against Miats, feels free to change to blast instead of frag. You cant channel attacks even in melee range against it.
  • Toc de Malsvi
    Toc de Malsvi
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    Derra wrote: »

    I play a magsorc and a magblade.

    Every potatoe is able to dodge 100% of my burst skills. I don´t think it helps me more than it hurts me.

    Aw come on, you can Curse people. I'm over here trying to shoot arrows at thin air.
    Legendary Archer of Valenwood
    Bosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)
    Templar's are evil..
  • DDuke
    DDuke
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    Derra wrote: »

    You know - stuff like this is the reason why i´m happy miats is in the game :blush:

    Crafty players finding ways to oneshot being denied so.

    Hey, people can currently do that better with Dark Flare+Javelin :P

    Wouldn't be too horrible imo if bow became slightly better at burst than those magicka builds, considering how badly it lacks behind in all other aspects. And unlike Dark Flare+Javelin, atleast bow has to aim & hit with the Acid Spray - too far away and it won't be in range (20m...), too close and Lethal Arrow lands first, ruining the combo.

    There's some skill involved atleast with this playstyle (atleast compared to pre-Battle Spirit burst, or proc meta of Homestead/1T).
    Edited by DDuke on September 28, 2017 1:43PM
  • Micke3rd
    Micke3rd
    [*] Do you have any other general feedback?

    no weapons for frost-staff-tanks ? isn't it a little bit unfair or is there a balance reason ?
    Edited by Micke3rd on September 29, 2017 10:02AM
  • Bladerunner1
    Bladerunner1
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    I tested Mechanical Acuity on my Bosmer Stamblade to get an apples to apples comparison with Hundings Rage. The second 5 piece set I used was Spriggan's, the only set I could easily get that had no crit buffs.

    I used an axe/mace DW bar for both setups just to see apples to apples comparison. Both sets had Nirn traited mainhand+sharpened offhand / weapon damage glyph + poison glyph.

    After tinkering with the rotation extensively the average Acuity parse beat Hundings by 4% against a target dummy. I haven't tried it yet against a dungeon boss since none of my friends are on the PTS at the same time as me, but I wanted to bring it up since hardly anyone has posted their thoughts AFTER testing the set. The DPS results would be less for a dagger wielding catman, this set does not mesh with the current meta.

    It's like so many other things added to the game in the past, it doesn't mesh well with the meta, hardly anyone tests it. Then somewhere down the road after the release someone posts a DPS number that causes a knee-jerk reaction and a nerf, then so many complain about the nerf.

    After half an hour of testing, I can say that the Acuity buff is very fleeting, you can get a lot out of it on occasion or hardly anything at all if you fumble or miss the opportunity, and I agree with Dymence:
    Dymence wrote: »
    I have done some testing on Mechanical Acuity and here is my feedback on it.

    On a stationairy dummy it does well. It provides a lot of burst damage potential and it holds its own with the top tier sets out there in that regard.

    I also brought it to the new raid to play around with it, and it's a totally different game there. It's not a good set if you're going to fight bosses that are very heavy on mechanics, adds, and immunity phases.

    Far too often will your set proc just as a boss is going immune for instance, or focussing outside adds which you really don't need the extra damage for. All that's left then is a set with a dead 5 piece bonus. The fact that you cannot control the procs of the set makes the huge cooldown on it far too harsh.

    As it stands, it's only good for a training dummy and bosses that are practically training dummies.

    Dummy parse with Acuity for those interested:
    Spoiler
    TtXc47h.jpg
    Edited by Bladerunner1 on September 29, 2017 6:50PM
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