Rampant cheating in PvP, what is being done about it ZOS?

Chronicburn · September 2017

I used to die in dark fall a ton to people who used keyboard macros ... never considered them cheating, just figured they cared a hell of a lot more about winning then I did ...

geonsocal · September 2017

Chronicburn wrote: »

I used to die in dark fall a ton to people who used keyboard macros ... never considered them cheating, just figured they cared a hell of a lot more about winning then I did ...

I mean seriously - if you ain't cheating - are you even really trying...

Gilvoth · September 2017

i wish zenimax would stop them.

chris25602 · September 2017

geonsocal wrote: »

Chronicburn wrote: »

I used to die in dark fall a ton to people who used keyboard macros ... never considered them cheating, just figured they cared a hell of a lot more about winning then I did ...

I mean seriously - if you ain't cheating - are you even really trying...

and this...software devs need a game to play too..

kkravaritieb17_ESO · September 2017

Tinfoil hats on.

Biro123 · September 2017

Baconfat79 wrote: »

Miat's add-on is cheating, and I'm pretty sure that the vast majority of PVP'ers are using it.

Except it isn't.

It only uses information which zos explicitly provides for addons.
In fact zos already looked at what the add-on was doing a few patches ago and changed the info they produce as a result -which changed its behaviour with stealthed opponents.
The fact that zos have looked at it, toned down some of its functionality but not all, kind of suggests that they are OK with the remaining functionality.

Does it give an advantage? Yes
Is it cheating? No.

Do running shoes give an advantage? Yes
Are they cheating? No.

I don't like that it is allowed. But it IS allowed.

Jade1986 · September 2017

Thogard wrote: »

Proof of cheating hasn't been shown in over a year. Cheat engine hasn't worked in over a year.

It's all in your head. That and some good old fashioned server lag.

You cannot post videos in here of people cheating, you will get banned for naming and shaming, that is why you dont see it. If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around, it still makes a noise.

Jade1986 · September 2017

chris25602 wrote: »

ecru wrote: »

chris25602 wrote: »

So a vast majority of 'cheating' in pvp is actually the point of playing pvp. Part of the fun is discovering the mechanics that give you an edge. Legitimately there are some things that are unfair which then get nerfed in a patch;which exposes a new set of mechanics which will be unfairly exploited and nerfed...and the cycle continues

I don't think this is what people mean when they say cheating, lol.

In all of the years i've pvp'd in mmo's, ESO is the only one that has consistent complaints of people actually cheating. Not using exploits, not using some sort of bug or unintended game mechanics, but i mean flat out cheating.

There's probably something to that.

Also, it's embarrassing that zos allows miat's to exist. It's very hard to take them seriously when an addon like that is in the game. The closest thing I've ever seen to it is being able to have alerts that a player you're targeting is casting a specific ability, which is not even close to how much of an advantage miat's gives you. It also gives a major advantage to stam in general but that's another discussion altogether.

tbh i was apparently in the dark....one more person using miat lol.

The people using miats are the ones complaining about warden abilities probably. Lol. Which is why i love the warden, anti miats addon.

Messy1 · September 2017

Malic wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

I'm not even a diehard PvPer, but I sure do die easy from all the cheaters . . . pun intended

Every discord, TS, or other channel I join to talk with other PvPers it seems there is always talk about someone or some group that is exploiting some aspect of PvP.

The fact that there is something called "Cheat Engine" that can still be used to gain an advantage in PvP speaks volumes about the state of the PvP experience.

Someone told me that programs could be added to kick/or ban people who hack the server/and or client side of the game to adjust stats? Is it really that simple? Why isn't that being done.

I enjoy all aspects of ESO clearly, though, PvP is not a priority for ZOS in terms of fair playing field for all players.

Prove it.

Watch the reply, not only wont he prove his claim he'll likely go on the attack to deflect.

"someone told me" would it be chance be that infamous "they" guy.

So I say again, prove it, prove (your words) there is "rampant cheating" go ahead and look up rampant if you want, im betting you dont know what it means.

I don't have any evidence to prove that people are cheating in PvP. My knowledge of cheating comes from evidence presented on these forums, pvp streamers, reddit, youtube, and other sources when people "name and shame" (for which they get banned for apparently) so there is plenty of evidence that has already been submitted.

I am just a player who would like to know if the allegations of people cheating actually have some merit. I suppose I should rename the thread: "Allegations of rampant cheating in PvP: Is there any merit to them and what is being done about it ZOS!"

I have a hunch that the moderators will wait for someone like you and me to get into a heated argument and start posting nasty things about one another and shut this thread down to either squash any attention to this "valid" issue or I could be pleasantly surprised and receive a knowledgeable response from a devs.

Biro123 · September 2017

I think its enough to know that there are people who consider addons to be cheating.

This alone explains why there are so many accusations, and why the obvious response is to simply dismiss them.

Peekachu99 · September 2017

Any time I'm on my DK/ Mephala/ Healh regen tank for more than an hour in Cyro or IC, I'm guaranteed a hate-tell or "f'n cheater!" message. If a (bad) pvper (or 5) can't nuke someone in 5s they assume that person is exploiting somehow. In reality, that person just doesn't understand a lot of the numbers behind the game.

clocksstoppe · September 2017

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Any time I'm on my DK/ Mephala/ Healh regen tank for more than an hour in Cyro or IC, I'm guaranteed a hate-tell or "f'n cheater!" message. If a (bad) pvper (or 5) can't nuke someone in 5s they assume that person is exploiting somehow. In reality, that person just doesn't understand a lot of the numbers behind the game.

You get hate tells because you're playing a troll build (dk tank) which has no purpose other than annoying people, not because they think you're cheating.

I must say though the cheating issue has been pretty much gone for me since morrowind actually. Before that, I had people who randomly started knowing I was around when walking cloaked around them (literally impossible to do without cheats), and now this NEVER EVER happens. For me this is proof that ZOS has actually done something about it finally.

Axoinus · September 2017

Exploiting and cheating are two very different things.

Idinuse · September 2017

Axoinus wrote: »

Exploiting and cheating are two very different things.

No. Exploiting is cheating. Not the only means of cheating, but cheating nonetheless.

Peekachu99 · September 2017

clocksstoppe wrote: »

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Any time I'm on my DK/ Mephala/ Healh regen tank for more than an hour in Cyro or IC, I'm guaranteed a hate-tell or "f'n cheater!" message. If a (bad) pvper (or 5) can't nuke someone in 5s they assume that person is exploiting somehow. In reality, that person just doesn't understand a lot of the numbers behind the game.

You get hate tells because you're playing a troll build (dk tank) which has no purpose other than annoying people, not because they think you're cheating.

I must say though the cheating issue has been pretty much gone for me since morrowind actually. Before that, I had people who randomly started knowing I was around when walking cloaked around them (literally impossible to do without cheats), and now this NEVER EVER happens. For me this is proof that ZOS has actually done something about it finally.

Intelligent players leave super tanky people alone. And how is playing an well-built (for survival) character any different than building for maximum offence or one shot gank builds? Tanks in PVP have plenty of "purpose" from holding out long enough for reinforcements to arrive, to solo capturing nodes, to breaking up zergs, to simply being able to quest in Cyrodil in relative security. I could go on.

PVP is based on a dance between opposition and survival. Anything goes. There is no RIGHT way to play, despite whatever regulations and rules you've created for yourself.

LadyNalcarya · September 2017

Well... There are some suspicious players in both bgs and Cyrodiil.
I think some of them might be cheating/exploiting. Its not rampant, but its there. And it has nothing to do with troll tank builds or experienced players.
On the other hand, people in pvp accuse others in cheating right and left, for no reason whatsoever.

Malic · September 2017

Messy1 wrote: »

I don't have any evidence to prove that people are cheating in PvP.

then stfu

SnubbS · September 2017

I'm on console, and I've been accused of cheating so many times by awful players—or simply new players—that's it to the point where I don't even believe that anyone that says they're being cheated.

Messy1 · September 2017

Malic wrote: »

Messy1 wrote: »

I don't have any evidence to prove that people are cheating in PvP.

then stfu

Well, you continue to show that you are a quality person! Please keep baiting me, by all means!

Waffennacht · September 2017

Imo, I have come across a grand total of 3 players I have suspected of cheating, and even then I couldn't be sure.

For PC, we all know for a fact it has been done in the past, to think it doesn't happen now seems foolish

Malic · September 2017

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imo, I have come across a grand total of 3 players I have suspected of cheating, and even then I couldn't be sure.

For PC, we all know for a fact it has been done in the past, to think it doesn't happen now seems foolish

Prove it.

1000 TP says you wont.

Anybody? ANY OF YOU who claim or infer there is cheating can prove it?

Waffennacht · September 2017

Malic wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Imo, I have come across a grand total of 3 players I have suspected of cheating, and even then I couldn't be sure.

For PC, we all know for a fact it has been done in the past, to think it doesn't happen now seems foolish

Prove it.

1000 TP says you wont.

Anybody? ANY OF YOU who claim or infer there is cheating can prove it?

Yeah...

The shuffle exploit where they banned 300 + players for a bit for using CE

Don't make me grudge up another Gina post. I've been right every single time I say these things.

rimmidimdim · September 2017

I think cheating exists, it has too, but the word rampant? That is extreme. So extreme it's false.

Waffennacht · September 2017

rimmidimdim wrote: »

I think cheating exists, it has too, but the word rampant? That is extreme. So extreme it's false.

Agreed. Rampant is not the case. It just has/is happened. Like I said, my average would be 1 suspects (and I mean only suspected and no hard evidence) per year

itscompton · September 2017

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

cheating is infact alive in eso.
1 person hitting me with about 6 attacks in under 1 second, and i know for a fact is not lagg.
in addition to that people seeing me while i am stealthed from very far away come right to me and attack me.

Yep, had that happening on PS4 tonight. I freely admit I'm not the best 1v1 player and do lose a fair amount when I try but I make even top ten leaderboard players at least work for it usually (unless it's a NB that fears me and kills me before it wears off as I often can't break free). But I tried to fight this one certain player on his MagSorc hanging around outside our keep a few times and every time I was dead in literally one second and he had to be hitting me with more than five abilities because every time I was at full health and the five showing on my recap didn't add up to my total health. Pretty easy to tell something was up with him as I played all night and had no problems with anyone else doing anything even remotely similar. I highly doubt it was lag because I also saw him nuke a few other 660CP players in a similar fashion. So while it's not common on console there are a few people using after market controllers with programmable macros or using Cronusmax with a regular controller so that they can push one button and five or six abilities fire off faster than you can tap a button twice.

itscompton · September 2017

PlagueSD wrote: »

This thread reminds me of this quote by Arther C. Clarke.

"Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."

I think the same can be said for skilled players and "cheaters"

Skill is using the right abilities at the right time in the right order, not being able to fire off six abilities in one second using a program. I've played the game for years and I know the difference between someone animation canceling manually and someone using an automated process to do it for them. That is a macro and there is no skill involved in using them. Thankfully it's a lot more trouble to do on console that PC but there are controllers and hardware like cronusmax that allow it do be done.
Check this link out if you doubt:
http://cronusmax.com/forums/showthread.php/148712-elder-scrolls-online-animation-canceling-script-requested/page1

Biro123 · September 2017

Nobody is denying that macro's exists.

People are denying that they can overcome the games cooldowns.

People are denying that these macros actually help you play better.

I mean, lets say I had a macro to weave a light attack with every ability - like that one.. On a magsorc, when I have frag procced, and curse is going to go off soon. Is it better to wait until the right moment to hit the ani-cancel/crushing-shock button - or is it better to have more flexible/ manual control and instead start charging up a heavy attack to release with the frag?

Same goes for weaving light or heavies with wrecking blow - or cancelling attacks... lets say you have a macro that block-cancels every ability.... But you want to cast something them immediately switch to your defensive bar.. You can't ani-cancel with bar-swap - cos the macro just did it with block - so again - macro just slowed you down.

The only way around it is to have multiple keys assigned to each ability.. one with a block cancel, one with a swap cancel, one with a light-weave, one with a heavy weave etc..... Which kind of makes it harde to play - and defeats the object of having macro's as they are normally used to reduce the amount of different keys you need to use in a a game.

I can perhaps understand terrible players using them if without, they would never LA-weave anything - but for any competent player, macros will make them worse. Not to mention how lag can screw with macro's (and we all know what Cyrodiil is like primetime)

I certainly wouldn't be worried about facing a macro-user in-game.

Biro123 · September 2017

itscompton wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

cheating is infact alive in eso.
1 person hitting me with about 6 attacks in under 1 second, and i know for a fact is not lagg.
in addition to that people seeing me while i am stealthed from very far away come right to me and attack me.

Yep, had that happening on PS4 tonight. I freely admit I'm not the best 1v1 player and do lose a fair amount when I try but I make even top ten leaderboard players at least work for it usually (unless it's a NB that fears me and kills me before it wears off as I often can't break free). But I tried to fight this one certain player on his MagSorc hanging around outside our keep a few times and every time I was dead in literally one second and he had to be hitting me with more than five abilities because every time I was at full health and the five showing on my recap didn't add up to my total health. Pretty easy to tell something was up with him as I played all night and had no problems with anyone else doing anything even remotely similar. I highly doubt it was lag because I also saw him nuke a few other 660CP players in a similar fashion. So while it's not common on console there are a few people using after market controllers with programmable macros or using Cronusmax with a regular controller so that they can push one button and five or six abilities fire off faster than you can tap a button twice.

This is no proof of cheating, nor macro's doing it.

There are loads of explanations... I saw this exact same complaint before and when dissected n the forums, it turned out that those '6 attacks' consisted of one ability, 2 hits from a DW heavy attack, a glyph proccing - and 2 proc-sets going off and a dot tick.

I play magsorc. and here's how it goes..:

Assume each numbered line below is a second.

1. I cast Degeneration. its a dot
2. I cast mages wrath. It does a little damage but stays on the player for 4 seconds.
3. I cast light-attack, woven with curse (light attack just for the dmg-buff glyph), Curse does no damage yet but stays on the player for 3.5 seconds. Cancelled with Bar-swap.
4. I start charging heavy attack
5. I realease that heavy attack with a frag - these have travel-time.
6. I cast crushing-shock(no travel time) - block-cancelled.
Frag lands, curse goes off, heavy attack hits, damage glyph goes off, just very slightly later crushing shock hits (you see 3 hits from CS in recap - 1 per lement). You'll probably get a degeneration tick too. If that takes you below 20% health, wrath explodes. A split-second later that last light-attack reaches you and hits..

So - within about a second - if done correctly, you get hit with 10 'things' (8 if you count CS as one). But it takes 6 seconds to set them up - and you can tell from a mile away that its coming.... This isn't cheating, or macro's - its just a player knowing how to use his class vs a player who doesn't know how to defend it.

Also worth mentioning that the death recap splash-screen does not show everything that hits - nor does it show the timings of them - it just seems to pick some of the biggest hitters over the last few seconds to show.. The only real way to know for sure what happened to you is to have an addon that shows a full time-stamped combat-log that you can go back over.

kevlarto_ESO · September 2017

Thing is cheating in this game is easy to spot, but when you have dev's that claim cheaters are just a hybrid build nothing will ever get done, when you exceed game physics only to possible conclusions exploiting a bug or cheating, one of the reason a lot of my friends quite pvp'ing and one of the reasons I just uninstalled the game sick of the dev team and zos to soft on cheaters.

Kas · September 2017

mommadani907 wrote: »

I'm fairly new to PvP myself. I saw a NB shoot through a ceiling the other day. My first thought was how the heck did he do that? My second thought was it must be a skill working in a weird way, not that he must be a Cheater McCheaterface. Honestly, unless someone was walking around in the air, I wouldn't be able to tell if someone was actually cheating at this point.

there used to be a rare bug (i don't know if someone is able to reproduce it on purpose and neither if the bug is even in the game today) where some walls just didn't show up for a player and not only the visual was missing but also the clipping. to other players it looks like they can walk and shoot through walls. maybe it was that.