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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
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• https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/683901
Rampant cheating in PvP, what is being done about it ZOS?
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OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »Wreuntzylla wrote: »
So you know what the build is for endless block and dodge with 1300 regen? I would use it in a heartbeat, you seem to know how it's done, please post the build!
Nah, cus I don’t loosely throw around terms like endless. My heavy stamblade can sustain thru some absurd situations with 1500 base regen, but I wouldn’t describe it as being endless sustain by any means. I just know my limits and how to get the most out of my build, just as most people who get accused of cheating do. My point was, just cus someone can sustain in low regen is not eveidence of anything except that someone has good resource management.
I run into you now and then. I would never accuse you of cheating...
Yeah you would xD
You are a completely different story. I don't know that I have run into you, but you continuously argue cheating is impossible and macroing doesn't work in ESO. Only one type of person argues like that...
Well, two types, but you seem passably intelligent.
I've never once argued anything you speak of, the fact that you think that shows how much you pay attention.
My arguments are always consistent.
1.) Don't make false accusations without evidence.
2.) Macros serve to give no advantage in a game like ESO, where you cannot predict the flow of a fight. Just because you have a macro set to cast three shields, does not mean at any one given time you want to be doing that. You could be hit with a dawnbreaker, cc'd and need to react. If you believe macroing exists that's fine but once again unless you have evidence don't make false accusations about players using them, just because you die to them.
2 a.) Also you should actually understand what a macro does before talking about them, as many people in ESO seem to believe you can perform magic with them.
3.) If cheating still exists in the form of CE post CE weekend, you should provide clear evidence before falsely accusing people of doing it.
If the above means that I somehow believe cheating is impossible, that's simply your rage blinding you over your inability to prove what you want to believe. And yes i have ran into you several times.Edited by OdinForge on December 28, 2017 3:20AMThe Age of Wrobel.2 -
Alfie2072✭✭✭cheat engine literally gets detected after a few minutes or so of having it activePvP - Stamina Warden - Stamina Templar - Stamina Dragonknight - Stamina Nightblade
Worst Twitch Streamer Here0 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »People that spend a lot of time worrying about cheats and exploits and cheaters use it as the excuse as to why they are not better at the game or use it as a crutch to not get better.
Right. That does not mean cheats don't exist tho.
I used to think cheating in ESO isn't possible right up to the point when i saw that famous meteor shower video. That told me ZOS is keeping critical data on the client, which enables cheating.
I have seen no evidence since then that this is no longer the case.
You still seeing people floating around dropping endless meteors? I haven't seen that since the big CE weekend, if it still worked people would still do it. The evidence that it doesn't exist comes in the form of not seeing it resurface
You realize the only reason why the meteors were caught on the video in the firstplace was the fact the guy dropping them wanted the cheating exposed for everyone to see? It has been going on long before that, and nobody noticed.
Saying that "it cannot possibly be still happening because i do not see it" is sticking your head in the sand. How do you spot someone who gave himself perfectly legit top weapon damage, perfectly legit top mitigation and perfectly legit top regen - just in an impossible combination of all three at the same time?
You don't.
The only real proof that CE cheating is no longer possible would be an official statement saying so. It shouldn't be too hard, assuming what was posted above is true(Rich Lambert personally telling people everything is serverside now). Yet - no official statement has been made, despite the existence of an official thread discussing the very topic...How do you spot someone who gave himself perfectly legit top weapon damage, perfectly legit top mitigation and perfectly legit top regen - just in an impossible combination of all three at the same time?
You don't because this was never possible. You should start your journey as the other player here mentioned, by reading up about CE on the public forums to understand what was and wasn't possible. Players resorted to floating around dropping meteors, because it was the only thing you could do to insta-kill players.
That begs the question of "if CE doesn't work, why did a well known streamer recently crash to desktop with CE running in the background"?
Everyone that claims to have seen it is lying?
That's preposterous.
Are you just making stuff up about streamers again, we all know how much you hate streamers.
I guess you haven't been following the forums much of late.
But, sure you can just chalk it all up as envy, l2p or the usual litany of claims.
That or perhaps a "well known" streamer recently crashed to desktop revealing CE running.
Now if you believe the boatload (think ferry sized) of people that saw it, that begs the question of "if CE don't work, why would it have been running"?
In truth, I have no idea what worked or works in CE. I can merely guess that not everything was pushed server side. The most glaring issues I've seen at play is people that dodge stuff passively at ridiculous clips and regen (ie the plethora of zero regen builds that block and roll dodge constantly, but never run out of resources).
My guess is you will resort to defaming and insulting. Of course I've been with friends and seen your magblade ride by and dodge 6-8 attacks in a row without even bothering to dismount, so you're position is pretty known.
I was watching him the other night trying to suicide at a resource. The kid had the weirdest health regen going on while he wasn't casting or mocheat engine literally gets detected after a few minutes or so of having it active
Not true. There was a work around a week after the scandal. Renaming some files. There countermeasures were pathetic. Even more pathetic that it took them years to do what they did3 -
Malamar1229✭✭✭✭✭
✭I’m still waiting for one of the people who thinks CE still works in ESO to take one for the team, install it, and make a video using it.
Or even just post a video showing someone using it.
Even a video like “hey I saw a guy do this, how is this possible?” That wouldn’t get deleted.
But nothing has been posted, and you hack accusers keep asking us for evidence to disprove something for which there is no evidence that it exists in the first place. That is a fundamental logical fallacy.
I honestly would...but I have spent like $5000 YTD on crowns (makes me sick to my stomach) and have too much invested. also, I am stupid when it comes to computers and would need a "CE for Dummies" just to get it working.0 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭“Uhh.. yea guys, the potatoes are carrying pitchforks and torches now! They know our secret.”
Sheeeeit2 -
Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »
The evidence is 1299 regen builds that block and dodge everything and never run out of resources.
Insightful +1
Kek.
Now I want to know what the people are saying when they chase me.
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A_G_G_R_O✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »rfennell_ESO wrote: »People that spend a lot of time worrying about cheats and exploits and cheaters use it as the excuse as to why they are not better at the game or use it as a crutch to not get better.
Right. That does not mean cheats don't exist tho.
I used to think cheating in ESO isn't possible right up to the point when i saw that famous meteor shower video. That told me ZOS is keeping critical data on the client, which enables cheating.
I have seen no evidence since then that this is no longer the case.
You still seeing people floating around dropping endless meteors? I haven't seen that since the big CE weekend, if it still worked people would still do it. The evidence that it doesn't exist comes in the form of not seeing it resurface
You realize the only reason why the meteors were caught on the video in the firstplace was the fact the guy dropping them wanted the cheating exposed for everyone to see? It has been going on long before that, and nobody noticed.
Saying that "it cannot possibly be still happening because i do not see it" is sticking your head in the sand. How do you spot someone who gave himself perfectly legit top weapon damage, perfectly legit top mitigation and perfectly legit top regen - just in an impossible combination of all three at the same time?
You don't.
The only real proof that CE cheating is no longer possible would be an official statement saying so. It shouldn't be too hard, assuming what was posted above is true(Rich Lambert personally telling people everything is serverside now). Yet - no official statement has been made, despite the existence of an official thread discussing the very topic...How do you spot someone who gave himself perfectly legit top weapon damage, perfectly legit top mitigation and perfectly legit top regen - just in an impossible combination of all three at the same time?
You don't because this was never possible. You should start your journey as the other player here mentioned, by reading up about CE on the public forums to understand what was and wasn't possible. Players resorted to floating around dropping meteors, because it was the only thing you could do to insta-kill players.
That begs the question of "if CE doesn't work, why did a well known streamer recently crash to desktop with CE running in the background"?
Everyone that claims to have seen it is lying?
That's preposterous.
Do you have this CE crash to desktop as a saved clip. It seems you need evidence for these claims. Are these also dated evidence pieces to show they run CE post ZoS moving things server side?
Eyewitnesses are evidence. Even in a court of law...
I didn't see it, but I heard from enough people that did.
Some of them have posted on the forums regarding it. Most have had there posts removed unless they were intentionally vague enough.
Then again, I'm pretty sure you are someone in the know about it anyways and just "doing damage control".
Me... I'm just the guy that's been trying to save the game from the ill natured exploiters. How many of us have watched friend after friend get sick of it and quit? Quite a lot, of course in some circles it's not quite an issue as they are knee deep in it and you can usually tell because what they are knee deep in spews from their fingers to a keyboard to whispers or forum posts.
All I want is VAC or something like it. That doesn't hurt anyone honest, furthermore it ends a lot of accusations that could be wrong from festering.
Eyewitness testimony is the weakest form of evidence in the court of science. But documented evidence well that’s always acceptable in both.0 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Lol the sheer amount of players that Warden and VAC catches and then bans is staggering.
But somehow in delusion land where ESO has nearly done nothing to thwart exploitation, there isn't any cheating.
VAC doesn't just detect a cheat and issue bans left and right, you can go months cheating without being banned. There are stupid ways of circumventing this system on steam, such as sharing the game to a misc family accounts and cheating on the family account.
In other words when you play a multiplayer steam game with VAC like Dark Souls 3, 9/10 of your pvp matches will be against cheaters, because they get away with it for so long before a ban wave comes. And you can even get banned by VAC for someone cheating against you, because the VAC system is stupid and can be easily fooled.
What ZOS did is 10 times better. But in delusion land you take your friends word for it, when they say they swear they saw a streamer cheating, and no one has evidence.
You sure know alot about cheating and cheats and especially how to cheat in other games with more robust anti cheat measures.3 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Lol the sheer amount of players that Warden and VAC catches and then bans is staggering.
But somehow in delusion land where ESO has nearly done nothing to thwart exploitation, there isn't any cheating.
VAC doesn't just detect a cheat and issue bans left and right, you can go months cheating without being banned. There are stupid ways of circumventing this system on steam, such as sharing the game to a misc family accounts and cheating on the family account.
In other words when you play a multiplayer steam game with VAC like Dark Souls 3, 9/10 of your pvp matches will be against cheaters, because they get away with it for so long before a ban wave comes. And you can even get banned by VAC for someone cheating against you, because the VAC system is stupid and can be easily fooled.
What ZOS did is 10 times better. But in delusion land you take your friends word for it, when they say they swear they saw a streamer cheating, and no one has evidence.
You sure know alot about cheating and cheats and especially how to cheat in other games with more robust anti cheat measures.
Or maybe he just knows how to google something and do a basic, rudimentary amount of research before slandering people.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp3 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Lol the sheer amount of players that Warden and VAC catches and then bans is staggering.
But somehow in delusion land where ESO has nearly done nothing to thwart exploitation, there isn't any cheating.
VAC doesn't just detect a cheat and issue bans left and right, you can go months cheating without being banned. There are stupid ways of circumventing this system on steam, such as sharing the game to a misc family accounts and cheating on the family account.
In other words when you play a multiplayer steam game with VAC like Dark Souls 3, 9/10 of your pvp matches will be against cheaters, because they get away with it for so long before a ban wave comes. And you can even get banned by VAC for someone cheating against you, because the VAC system is stupid and can be easily fooled.
What ZOS did is 10 times better. But in delusion land you take your friends word for it, when they say they swear they saw a streamer cheating, and no one has evidence.
You sure know alot about cheating and cheats and especially how to cheat in other games with more robust anti cheat measures.
Or maybe he just knows how to google something and do a basic, rudimentary amount of research before slandering people.
Bingo! You may actually be smarter than your posts would indicate. Now assuming you're right, he was somehow able during his rudimentary search to find information about hacking in other games yet unable to find anything on ESO hacks...
Having done my own rudimentary search on eso hacks, I know there is plenty of hack sites that service a portion of the ESO playerbase.
Does it not seem odd that he argues "no hax" so vehemently but only regarding the game he is currently playing. Otherwise he is an expert on hacks for the purpose of debate.5 -
Unfadingsilence✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Imo for console:
Elite controllers are not "cheating" but sure af not "fair"
I own both the MS Elite controller and the Razer Wildcat. The only thing these controllers will give you an advantage for is maybe faster bar swap, potion use... as you can remap the D Pad buttons to triggers under the controller but you cannot remap multiple buttons at the same time to one of the trigger buttons (meaning no macroíng so if you use one of the triggers under the contoroller it will not fire off X,Y,B). You could also remap the shoulder buttons to the triggers underneath if you have problems getting your ultimates to fire but I have no issue using the shoulder buttons. The only problem I have is moving my thumb from the left joystick to the D-Pad to swap weapons so I remap the left D-Pad to one of the triggers under the controller.
So how come when I hooked my controller up to my PC and got it to where my ultimate is now my start button only for Xbox NA??1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Lol the sheer amount of players that Warden and VAC catches and then bans is staggering.
But somehow in delusion land where ESO has nearly done nothing to thwart exploitation, there isn't any cheating.
VAC doesn't just detect a cheat and issue bans left and right, you can go months cheating without being banned. There are stupid ways of circumventing this system on steam, such as sharing the game to a misc family accounts and cheating on the family account.
In other words when you play a multiplayer steam game with VAC like Dark Souls 3, 9/10 of your pvp matches will be against cheaters, because they get away with it for so long before a ban wave comes. And you can even get banned by VAC for someone cheating against you, because the VAC system is stupid and can be easily fooled.
What ZOS did is 10 times better. But in delusion land you take your friends word for it, when they say they swear they saw a streamer cheating, and no one has evidence.
You sure know alot about cheating and cheats and especially how to cheat in other games with more robust anti cheat measures.
Or maybe he just knows how to google something and do a basic, rudimentary amount of research before slandering people.
Bingo! You may actually be smarter than your posts would indicate. Now assuming you're right, he was somehow able during his rudimentary search to find information about hacking in other games yet unable to find anything on ESO hacks...
Having done my own rudimentary search on eso hacks, I know there is plenty of hack sites that service a portion of the ESO playerbase.
Does it not seem odd that he argues "no hax" so vehemently but only regarding the game he is currently playing. Otherwise he is an expert on hacks for the purpose of debate.
I also did a search. Couldn’t find anything post 2015... PM me a link.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
OdinForge✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Lol the sheer amount of players that Warden and VAC catches and then bans is staggering.
But somehow in delusion land where ESO has nearly done nothing to thwart exploitation, there isn't any cheating.
VAC doesn't just detect a cheat and issue bans left and right, you can go months cheating without being banned. There are stupid ways of circumventing this system on steam, such as sharing the game to a misc family accounts and cheating on the family account.
In other words when you play a multiplayer steam game with VAC like Dark Souls 3, 9/10 of your pvp matches will be against cheaters, because they get away with it for so long before a ban wave comes. And you can even get banned by VAC for someone cheating against you, because the VAC system is stupid and can be easily fooled.
What ZOS did is 10 times better. But in delusion land you take your friends word for it, when they say they swear they saw a streamer cheating, and no one has evidence.
You sure know alot about cheating and cheats and especially how to cheat in other games with more robust anti cheat measures.
Or maybe he just knows how to google something and do a basic, rudimentary amount of research before slandering people.
Bingo! You may actually be smarter than your posts would indicate. Now assuming you're right, he was somehow able during his rudimentary search to find information about hacking in other games yet unable to find anything on ESO hacks...
Having done my own rudimentary search on eso hacks, I know there is plenty of hack sites that service a portion of the ESO playerbase.
Does it not seem odd that he argues "no hax" so vehemently but only regarding the game he is currently playing. Otherwise he is an expert on hacks for the purpose of debate.
You have no idea what you're talking about, and frankly I couldn't care what you believe. But you cannot make false accusations about players cheating, without compelling evidence. Compelling evidence was brought to the table when memory hacking was brought to light, and something was done about it.
None has surfaced since and information about how software like CE works is easily accessible out there.
I'm comfortable with people like you insinuating that I'm a hacker for attempting to educate you (as best as ZOS will allow), especially considering that several players in this thread are known for sending people in-game rage tells about being hackers, when they die outnumbered.
The Age of Wrobel.1 -
ChunkyCat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭When I’m grouped with Thogard, he cheats me out of my kill shots.
True story.1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Yeah but that’s just my KillSteal 2.0 Add on macro.When I’m grouped with Thogard, he cheats me out of my kill shots.
True story.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭The most suspicious thing to me is the BS never happens in duels. Not even at peak hours in Wayrest where I can easily detect server lag and frame rate lag in everything I do yet my fights and recaps always make sense. Yet rolling in Cyro at 4am night capping with no population bars even filled some craziness goes down.
Like some have said ZOS needs to get serious about it or the trust will never be there. Specifically consumables need banned from pvp like every other serious pvp game as I know macros + pots are a big source of the false accusations. Pots and poisons are practically cheats or at the very least pay to win. Kinda ridiculous how many more options there are for pots and poisons over enchants.
Another question for someone more knowledgeable about CE or macros would be if you can get break-free to cast automatically when hit with a CC? As I run into that a lot is people who don't even act like they ate the CC but now they are on CC immunity. They keep moving, no buggy sliding with awkward animations either. Like legit keep running in perfect stride. Seems like that might be something still manipulable client side.Edited by NuarBlack on January 21, 2018 12:04PM1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The most suspicious thing to me is the BS never happens in duels. Not even at peak hours in Wayrest where I can easily detect server lag and frame rate lag in everything I do yet my fights and recaps always make sense. Yet rolling in Cyro at 4am night capping with no population bars even filled some craziness goes down.
Like some have said ZOS needs to get serious about it or the trust will never be there. Specifically consumables need banned from pvp like every other serious pvp game as I know macros + pots are a big source of the false accusations. Pots and poisons are practically cheats or at the very least pay to win. Kinda ridiculous how many more options there are for pots and poisons over enchants.
Another question for someone more knowledgeable about CE or macros would be if you can get break-free to cast automatically when hit with a CC? As I run into that a lot is people who don't even act like they ate the CC but now they are on CC immunity. They keep moving, no buggy sliding with awkward animations either. Like legit keep running in perfect stride. Seems like that might be something still manipulable client side.
There’s an addon called “Miat’s CC alerts” that plays a sound when you get CCd. It’s much faster than the visual effects which take time to recognize.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another question for someone more knowledgeable about CE or macros would be if you can get break-free to cast automatically when hit with a CC? As I run into that a lot is people who don't even act like they ate the CC but now they are on CC immunity. They keep moving, no buggy sliding with awkward animations either. Like legit keep running in perfect stride. Seems like that might be something still manipulable client side.
This should be trivial, no need for CE. The game client gets the information about whether you are CC-ed and this is available to addons. You can program an addon that displays a red point somewhere on the screen when you are CC-ed. The you can have a program running alongside ESO that reads your screen at that spot and sends the CC-break key everytime it becomes red.0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭
This should be trivial, no need for CE. The game client gets the information about whether you are CC-ed and this is available to addons. You can program an addon that displays a red point somewhere on the screen when you are CC-ed. The you can have a program running alongside ESO that reads your screen at that spot and sends the CC-break key everytime it becomes red.
Okay I figured it shouldn't be too hard. As I know that was very easy to do even 8 years ago in games like WoW and Rift. Which makes me think people who say macros don't give you much of an advantage in pvp must not understand macros. As they were basically essential for pvp in WoW and Rift. And they have a lot more flexibility that they are ignorant of. Such as conditional scripting that only initiates something when a condition is met. I imagine a macro that could be applied to your spamable could run through a list of conditionals every time you push it and actually only casts your spamable if there isn't some other action needed to be taken scripted to be a higher priority such as break-free, block, dodge, proc, pot, etc.. So combined with Miat's you could literally almost auto pilot your character effectively.
Edited by NuarBlack on January 21, 2018 8:58PM0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Usually when people say “he is cheating and using macros!” It’s followed up with “he hit me with four skills in one second!” Which as we all know is impossible, even when using cheat engine.
This should be trivial, no need for CE. The game client gets the information about whether you are CC-ed and this is available to addons. You can program an addon that displays a red point somewhere on the screen when you are CC-ed. The you can have a program running alongside ESO that reads your screen at that spot and sends the CC-break key everytime it becomes red.
Okay I figured it shouldn't be too hard. As I know that was very easy to do even 8 years ago in games like WoW and Rift. Which makes me think people who say macros don't give you much of an advantage in pvp must not understand macros. As they were basically essential for pvp in WoW and Rift. And they have a lot more flexibility that they are ignorant of. Such as conditional scripting that only initiates something when a condition is met. I imagine a macro that could be applied to your spamable could run through a list of conditionals every time you push it and actually only casts your spamable if there isn't some other action needed to be taken scripted to be a higher priority such as break-free, block, dodge, proc, pot, etc.. So combined with Miat's you could literally almost auto pilot your character effectively.
A macro to break CC could be used, but it’s so easy to just bind your break free button to MMB and hit it when you hear the CC alert sign.
Macros for entire skill rotations would be wasted in PvP due to the variance in counterplay. Macros in PvE would make more sense but I’m not a PvE guy so I don’t know for sure.
But there are some macros that are beneficial in PvP. I use a macro that has reprogrammed my skills so that the activity is activated on the press of the button, rather than the default which is on the release of the button. That macro and others like it are 100% legal. Its not a big advantage usually, but when I’m playing for a while and my fingers get tired it gives me more room for error if I’m slow to lift a finger off a button due to fatigue.
PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭There are tons of simple macros that would be beneficial in pvp. I know I get trolled by immovable pot + Ult like soulstrike. Think I have the CC to interrupt only for it to not land. And based on the info the game feeds client side for Miat's to work an auto pilot macro like described should be very easy and possible. And that is plenty flexible as I ran similar ones in Wow and Rift on classes that had way more complex mechanics and rotations that were situational than anything ESO has to offer.0
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NuarBlack✭✭✭✭Also I thought all macros were against the TOS. I get the keypress change doesn't even really count as a macro and I have no problem with that. So I get that you won't get busted for them either, but technically they are illegal. ZOS just doesn't back it up with some pattern recognition software that would detect it.0
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Also I thought all macros were against the TOS. I get the keypress change doesn't even really count as a macro and I have no problem with that. So I get that you won't get busted for them either, but technically they are illegal. ZOS just doesn't back it up with some pattern recognition software that would detect it.
Technically they are not illegal. A ZOS rep even confirmed that they weren’t in some other thread that I don’t have time to dig up, but it’s out there.
There’s a key distinction though. Botting is illegal. There is nothing in the TOS about macros.
The TOS specifically targets “playing without player input” so if you had a bot program that would perform certain actions for you based on specified input from the game then that would be against the rules. For instance, if you had a program that would CC break and then attack every time you got CCD, you’d be breaking the rules.
But a macro that does a dodge roll after each break free would be responding to player input, so that would be legal. Stupid to run, and easy to do on your own if you wanted to, but legal.
Edit: in other words, If the event is initiated by the player, it’s player input and legal. If the event is initiated by a response to an in-game trigger from the API, that’s botting and illegal. So an automatic CC break macro would be illegal. And technically that would be a “script” not a macro.Edited by Thogard on January 21, 2018 10:28PMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Sharee✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭But a macro that does a dodge roll after each break free would be responding to player input, so that would be legal. Stupid to run, and easy to do on your own if you wanted to, but legal.
Edit: in other words, If the event is initiated by the player, it’s player input and legal. If the event is initiated by a response to an in-game trigger from the API, that’s botting and illegal. So an automatic CC break macro would be illegal. And technically that would be a “script” not a macro.
Not exactly.
What is illegal in ZOS words are not macros, but automation. Pushing one button, resulting in two actions (that would normally require pushing two buttons) - that's automation, and thus illegal.
IIRC, this came up about a year ago in a debate about crafting multiple potions with one keypress. The answer from ZOS was no, this is not legal. One button push must correspond to one action performed.Edited by Sharee on January 21, 2018 11:03PM0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭And technically that would be a “script” not a macro.
Any macro that doesn't script isn't a useful macro. It would just be an alternative key binding. It isn't anything special outside of macro hardware or software either to run scripting. At least every macro system I have used allowed such scripting. In wow and rift you could run those basic scripts using their proprietary macro system simply opening it with */macro* So it technically still falls all under macroing. Now I haven't got into macroing in ESO as it is far less complicated than the games I mentioned plus I didn't realize how dumb ZOS was with what info they provide add-ons and client side. In their defense Blizzard and Trion provide some of the same info to add-ons and client but the nature of combat in ESO makes it problematic. As block and Dodge are not on CD and Break-free is fundamentally different than the trinket systems in those games. So macroing in the right hands could be very very game breaking. Just cause you haven't found a way to exploit it significantly doesn't mean it is not possible.
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Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And technically that would be a “script” not a macro.
Any macro that doesn't script isn't a useful macro. It would just be an alternative key binding. It isn't anything special outside of macro hardware or software either to run scripting. At least every macro system I have used allowed such scripting. In wow and rift you could run those basic scripts using their proprietary macro system simply opening it with */macro* So it technically still falls all under macroing. Now I haven't got into macroing in ESO as it is far less complicated than the games I mentioned plus I didn't realize how dumb ZOS was with what info they provide add-ons and client side. In their defense Blizzard and Trion provide some of the same info to add-ons and client but the nature of combat in ESO makes it problematic. As block and Dodge are not on CD and Break-free is fundamentally different than the trinket systems in those games. So macroing in the right hands could be very very game breaking. Just cause you haven't found a way to exploit it significantly doesn't mean it is not possible.
That’s a script though. Would be against TOS if it reacts to the APIPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Elsonso✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Technically they are not illegal. A ZOS rep even confirmed that they weren’t in some other thread that I don’t have time to dig up, but it’s out there.
There’s a key distinction though. Botting is illegal.
In the last year, people have claimed to have been banned for using keyboard macros in combat.
However, it is true that if you search the rules for whether you can use macros in combat, you will come up empty. It is hard to find information. Try here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2512949/#Comment_2512949
Edited by Elsonso on January 21, 2018 11:59PMXBox EU/NA:@ElsonsoJannus
PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
PSN NA/EU: @ElsonsoJannus
Total in-game hours: 11321
X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus0 -
NuarBlack✭✭✭✭
That’s a script though. Would be against TOS if it reacts to the API
But if ZOS doesn't do anything to detect it and take a significant action against it, it might as well not be. Not to mention if it is also pulling the info from something like Miats or a screen reader instead of directly from the API.
Plus a prioritization script like I know exists wouldn't necessarily need to react automatically to the API. It just allows you simply to perform the best action for the situation by mashing the same button over and over. And trust me I don't care how good you are such a macro script will out perform a human 9/10 times. It is simple heuristics and game theory easily scripted to give the scriptor the advantage.
And if simply reacting to the API is illegal then most Add-ons would be illegal. Obviously it is the nature of that reaction. Apparently visual and sound que reactions ok, automation not ok. Although they don't do anything about it either way. Although recent patch notes seem to acknowledge they know they are giving too much info to add-ons. But even if it kills Miat's there are ways around it if they don't run pattern recognition software to determine if behavior is within human bounds.1 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
That’s a script though. Would be against TOS if it reacts to the API
But if ZOS doesn't do anything to detect it and take a significant action against it, it might as well not be. Not to mention if it is also pulling the info from something like Miats or a screen reader instead of directly from the API.
Plus a prioritization script like I know exists wouldn't necessarily need to react automatically to the API. It just allows you simply to perform the best action for the situation by mashing the same button over and over. And trust me I don't care how good you are such a macro script will out perform a human 9/10 times. It is simple heuristics and game theory easily scripted to give the scriptor the advantage.
And if simply reacting to the API is illegal then most Add-ons would be illegal. Obviously it is the nature of that reaction. Apparently visual and sound que reactions ok, automation not ok. Although they don't do anything about it either way. Although recent patch notes seem to acknowledge they know they are giving too much info to add-ons. But even if it kills Miat's there are ways around it if they don't run pattern recognition software to determine if behavior is within human bounds.
Addons can take information from the API and reformat it for you in an easier to visualize way, but they can’t actually “do” anything for you other than things you can do out of combat (like changing gear or skills).
Reformating information received is pretty different from automating a reaction to that information.Edited by Thogard on January 22, 2018 12:21AMPC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0
