MrBetadine wrote: »You made a lot of assumptions. Many players enjoy the quests and like taking new characters through the content.
And again you can't do the content without a character. You and that specific character gains the achievement. When you log onto another character that particular player/character combination has a different list of accomplishments that in my opinion shouldn't be shared.
No way titles for accomplishments should be shared. Like I said in the other thread if people want the trophies and achievement furnishings to be account wide so long as it is optional I don't care. Personally I think it takes away from the game but others don't feel that way obviously.
MMOs survive on content being repeated. That is why they have random drops. To make you repeat content. Making exploration character specific is another way to make sure content is repeated. No way exploring nor quests should be account wide. Beyond that to me it makes no sense to make a new character if you don't want to do any of the content. I know some players that PvP only power level but even after that they still have to spend a lot of time getting down the new rotations and all that fun stuff.
When you start a new character they should have no skills, no achievements, no skyshards, no discovered wayshrines and no completed quests. You start a new character to play the game. You and that one character work as a team to get those achievements. You couldn't do it without the character and the character couldn't do it without you. When you jump onto a different character you should have a different list of accomplishments because the particular player/character combination hasn't done the same thing.
Inconsistency: I have 660+ cp right from the start if I make a new char.
I guess that the people who see their characters as individuals have a unique different mount for each of them, don't use the dyes/costumes/polymorphs/mementos unlocked by other character achievements, don't use gear/consumables crafted by alts, don't use bound gear that they acquired with other alts, don't use the CPs from the account and manually calculate how many exp and CPs you get on each alt so they can distribute accordingly.
Because if you do any of the above you don't really consider a character as an individual do you?
I guess that the people who see their characters as individuals have a unique different mount for each of them, don't use the dyes/costumes/polymorphs/mementos unlocked by other character achievements, don't use gear/consumables crafted by alts, don't use bound gear that they acquired with other alts, don't use the CPs from the account and manually calculate how many exp and CPs you get on each alt so they can distribute accordingly.
Because if you do any of the above you don't really consider a character as an individual do you?
Pretty much. My characters even have their own homes and are only allowed to put in achievement furniture and trophies they earn themselves.
Crafting gear on one character for another is fine though. My crafter can make gear for other players so it only makes sense that he could also craft gear for my other characters. He can't however share his knowledge with other players so should not be allowed to share with my characters.
I would have liked to see Champion Points done differently but it was designed in part to entice us to play more than one character. To make CP character exclusive the whole system would need reworked.
The thing is ZoS needs us to repeat content for the game to be viable and that is one reason most this stuff is character locked.
Lois McMaster Bujold "A Civil Campaign"Reputation is what other people know about you. Honor is what you know about yourself. Guard your honor. Let your reputation fall where it will. And outlive the ***
Tl;dr
Sorry I didn't read the 8 paragraphs in the OP, most sizable.
I did gleam a few things.
If you didnt read it all, please dont vote... at all. Thats just unfair to all other people who read everything and vote for the opposite thing. I hope you realize that.
And what Zos would do and what not, is another topic, this is ONLY for you players, to gather information and oppinions.
Ok, i didnt made my "old" poll good enough, with only 2 very specific and bad formulated vote options. And because you cant edit polls ofc, ill make this new one now, look at the other one for a lot more information!
What ive learned from the old poll is, most people would be ok with some accountwide Achivements and things like Mount Training and research, but not with Crafting Skills, Skillpoints and more. And, of course, EVERYTHING should be optional! Nothing should be forced to be shared in any way.
One idea is now to make not all, but some Achivements accountwide (in my opinion it would make sense to make things like general achivements, for instance Trophys and Exploration accountwide, but Char-Specific things like Dungeon or Raid and Crafting Achivements Char bound, but write your opinion down below!)
A few people dont want all Motives to be accountwide, but thats one point i would want to be accountwide... i can see that it would devalue most of them, and that you only craft with one char, but thats one point for me! (And i dont want to buy a 300k Motif multible times just for Achivements...) I dont want to be able to only craft on one char. I dont want to change Chars for every Potion or Belt i make, and not for the "time" it takes, not that i dont want to switch, that takes not a lot of time, but i DONT, as many others, see Characters as individual and completley seperated entities, but the Account as one.
Took me over a year to complete all research, and 6 months to level horse skills for each character. I did all this the slow way. Nowadays you can just buy a bunch of crown lessons and research scrolls if you really are that impatient.
Ah, and you lose all my sympathy when you go on how another game made something so much better. Games should be different and do different things, ESO does just fine.
I'd like to have account-wide keybings and settings though - but since these don't give you a palpable advantage in game, and you can always set them once for each character, you never even mentioned them on your post.
TL; DR: I disagree with giving players the option to make the game less replayable, cheapening achievements and time spent
I would like to discuss this even more... but i dont see the point anymore. :c
I had this idea as a better Alternative to classchanges, which not a lot of people wanted, so i wanted so see what people think of this idea. And even if some people agree to a few things here, almost everyone is against anything, and thats ok. But it shows me that its not worth to fight for change, if so little people want something like this.
I thought i wouldnt want this only for myself but for a lot of people, this seems not the case, the ones that dont want this at all, rally so hard against it because it breaks the game for them (which is broken anyway and will never be fixed even to a degree, but we all know that from Zos and thats another topic...), that i dont want to argue against that anymore just because i would like this to happen. I tried to make this as openminded as possible, but that just is not possible, doesent matter which poll options i make or how many, someone would still be saying theyre shet and they cant vote for or against any of that.
So i give up for now, probably forever. Ive seen that noone wants classchanges or Accountwide settings, so i wont fight for it, its too exhausting for me. And if we are realistic, even if EVERYONE wanted this, Zos would probably still not listen at all, so lets just keep it at that, and have Zos do whatever they want with this game, because we dont matter to them. At all.
And for all those of you that think "Oh, now hes just fleeing from the Discussion and cant handle our Arguments and..." Yes, im fleeing now, i cant put my energy in something noone else wants to happen. Thats wasted time. ._.
I will just forever keep to my Stamsorc now and never play another Char, because classchanges or this here will never happen. I hope they someday bring at least a fun meta and fun mechanics again, if not, im just very close to quitting completley.
This game has the potential to be and get the best MMO in history, but the Devs dont take that chance, and that makes me much more sad then it should make me.
This can get closed pls.
MrBetadine wrote: »You made a lot of assumptions. Many players enjoy the quests and like taking new characters through the content.
And again you can't do the content without a character. You and that specific character gains the achievement. When you log onto another character that particular player/character combination has a different list of accomplishments that in my opinion shouldn't be shared.
No way titles for accomplishments should be shared. Like I said in the other thread if people want the trophies and achievement furnishings to be account wide so long as it is optional I don't care. Personally I think it takes away from the game but others don't feel that way obviously.
MMOs survive on content being repeated. That is why they have random drops. To make you repeat content. Making exploration character specific is another way to make sure content is repeated. No way exploring nor quests should be account wide. Beyond that to me it makes no sense to make a new character if you don't want to do any of the content. I know some players that PvP only power level but even after that they still have to spend a lot of time getting down the new rotations and all that fun stuff.
When you start a new character they should have no skills, no achievements, no skyshards, no discovered wayshrines and no completed quests. You start a new character to play the game. You and that one character work as a team to get those achievements. You couldn't do it without the character and the character couldn't do it without you. When you jump onto a different character you should have a different list of accomplishments because the particular player/character combination hasn't done the same thing.
Inconsistency: I have 660+ cp right from the start if I make a new char.
That makes no sense. The character didn't earn anything, even less so in this case. It was a player. Fishing required pressing E every 20 seconds. This is done by a player regardless of which character is used. It doesn't require any character specific class skills to be used.
Maybe Zos could come to a middle ground. Achievement points are account wide and maybe able to see a page that shows all achievements across all characters. However, the actual achievements remain led character. This would lock something like the Master Fishinh title to the character that actually earned it but players could get excited in their total achiement points. It would also.
False. People are asking for achievements to be account wide (including motifs) since before master writs were even announced.We all know why people want Motifs account wide, and it's not for achievements. And it's not for convenience either. Its so they can get more Master Writs.
You know why I know it's not for convenience? We are not crafting items all the time for ourselves or other people. I make one set of gear every two weeks, if that. And I have 14 Alts and I craft for my guild.
As for Achievements, well some of them need to be hard to get and take effort. Making them account wide just cheapens them. For example, the one for opening 1000 Chests. I have over 3000 chests opened on my characters account wide, but only one has the 1000 achievement. I am fine with that.
As for Titles, use them on the character that earns them.
Honestly I hope ZOS don't pay attention to these repeated threads, all they do is appeal to the lazy crowd that don't want to put effort in on their alts, and who misinterpret what MMORPG means (or don't know)...
What OP suggests is a fundamental shift in the genre and style of MMORPG's and would represent not only a dumbing down but also a break in the immersion we have with multiple toons!... for example, if we make "different " characters. In look, class, style.. purpose etc. It makes no sense that they should share the same achievements/ titles, riding skills, etc etc.. because each toon is created individualy!
Now the argument that... i, the human have achieved master angler on a particular toon, therefore all my toons should receive this achievement and title!.. Right?.... No! If you..., the human, were to create another individual toon that hasn't so much as dipped his rod, how is it feasible that he can display that title... or recieve the benefit of your collecting lore books or sky shards or riding skills or even share cp's??
No, I say leave it so we must create, spend time with learn and achieve with our multiple toons individually, instead of lazily dumbing down the process!
Honestly I hope ZOS don't pay attention to these repeated threads, all they do is appeal to the lazy crowd that don't want to put effort in on their alts, and who misinterpret what MMORPG means (or don't know)...
What OP suggests is a fundamental shift in the genre and style of MMORPG's and would represent not only a dumbing down but also a break in the immersion we have with multiple toons!... for example, if we make "different " characters. In look, class, style.. purpose etc. It makes no sense that they should share the same achievements/ titles, riding skills, etc etc.. because each toon is created individualy!
Now the argument that... i, the human have achieved master angler on a particular toon, therefore all my toons should receive this achievement and title!.. Right?.... No! If you..., the human, were to create another individual toon that hasn't so much as dipped his rod, how is it feasible that he can display that title... or recieve the benefit of your collecting lore books or sky shards or riding skills or even share cp's??
No, I say leave it so we must create, spend time with learn and achieve with our multiple toons individually, instead of lazily dumbing down the process!
I guess that the people who see their characters as individuals have a unique different mount for each of them, don't use the dyes/costumes/polymorphs/mementos unlocked by other character achievements, don't use gear/consumables crafted by alts, don't use bound gear that they acquired with other alts, don't use the CPs from the account and manually calculate how many exp and CPs you get on each alt so they can distribute accordingly.
Because if you do any of the above you don't really consider a character as an individual do you?
Pretty much. My characters even have their own homes and are only allowed to put in achievement furniture and trophies they earn themselves.
Crafting gear on one character for another is fine though. My crafter can make gear for other players so it only makes sense that he could also craft gear for my other characters. He can't however share his knowledge with other players so should not be allowed to share with my characters.
I would have liked to see Champion Points done differently but it was designed in part to entice us to play more than one character. To make CP character exclusive the whole system would need reworked.
The thing is ZoS needs us to repeat content for the game to be viable and that is one reason most this stuff is character locked.
all of my characters have their own homes as well. but.. I don't limit myself by making them decorating everything themselves and there are some homes, that they share - places where they can meet up and spend some time together. after all.. if the game allows you to trade for things with other people? why shouldn't my characters trade between themselves? they are found family, so they support each other, even if they are not necessarily on the same alliance, and certainly not the same race. ability to trade things across your account was in game from the start. it was intended from the start. why not use it?
the thing about options is that... despite all of the account wide things being in game, you chose not to use them. the problem is - you seem to want to force that choice on other people as well.
and that is where you lose me at least completely.
I understand wanting to do things in each character, replay quests, etc. I would like for that to stay as is. but why NOT give people an option to share? IMO, when CP was made account wide, it was one of THE best changes to the game. becasue some of us don't have near unlimited time to build multiple characters 100% from scratch and yet STILL enjoy playing alts.