Let's talk about Magicka Warden... it still sucks

Seraphayel · September 2017

All 5 classes should do somewhat similar Stam/Mag DPS as damage is the one thing that all classes must can do. That there are so huge differences is a major balancing problem. DPS Warden sucks because most of the class DPS skills are sh*t. That's something ZOS must fix in the upcoming DLC. Making Warden by far the worst class is a horrible decision.

SoLooney · September 2017

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

SoLooney wrote: »

the only time ive seen a mag warden break 30k is if they wear 5 moondancer with someone giving them synergies. i dont like any of their moves besides deep fissure. mine collects dust cause i mostly only do end game trials and no way its gonna cut it when it cant pull 30k reliably compared to my mag sorc or magplar.

all from a pve standpoint, this class is extremely lackluster, they make decent tanks, off healers they are meh. stam wardens arent in a horrible spot.

they said they were gonna buff them but so fae nothing, back to collecting dust again!

You can crack 30k with the bear ultimate (around 31-32k is the max self-buffed), but bear is useless in endgame content since it's dead all the time and it's a single target ability. But even at 32k DPS, you're still 3-4k DPS behind the other magicka classes (and they all have destro ultimate).

I haven't seen anyone break 30k with destro ult though, which is pathetic.

They're decent healers and tanks, but few people are using them in those roles either since templar and DK are simply better.

yea you can get a significant dps increase from the bear but realistically for end game content, its not gonna happen. youre missing out 8perc max magicka from that one ultimate and the destro ulti all for an increase in single target dps that can die.

but yea, without that bear, theyre pretty much the weakest of the weak.

OutLaw_Nynx · September 2017

Deleted my Warden about a month ago. Useless class

Avnr · September 2017

Vanzen wrote: »

Well seeing how absolutely and insanely OP in pvp, mag wardens are, I cant imagine what it would be if they got DPS increase ...

snare masters , nice self heal , not that great dps
Just annoying

GreenhaloX · September 2017

Ehh, don't care much about the leader's board here. Good for those for being very good at ESO end game contents and shining on top spots. If we get paid like a job to play this game, then, yeah.. might be a different story then. For now, I enjoy the game whatever my level, playstyle or toon's costume/builds are. I also don't care much about who has the bigger chest or highest dps in this game. So, as someone who prefers to solo whatever contents he can, I find my sorc warden to be fine. Can't speak much for PvP cause I don't PvP much, but for PvE land, I have soloed certain world boss pits and dungeons with the sorc warden, and it does fine. It still does fine in a group setting at the pits and other dungeons.

Although, it is a tad bit lacking from a normal magsorc; you don't have that speed combo attack of a Crystal Frag and Mage's Wrath or the crushing supplemental damages from the Hurricane, it is still fine with the Ice Fortress, Cliff Racers, Swarms, Blue Betty (ha ha), and whatever. Also can't go wrong with that Lotus Flower when you get health back with every heavy attack. Of course, you have to supplement it with a couple of the Destro skillset. Dps is fine. Unless Zenimax is paying good bucks for folks to compete for the leader's board, I can care less if my dps is higher or lower than others. It is melting down adds/mobs/bosses just fine. Only crap thing is I have to use Harness Majicka. Damage shield for a warden is really crap otherwise.

WillhelmBlack · September 2017

Sorcerer have everything. Just be a Sorc.

Apherius · September 2017

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sorcerer have everything. Just be a Sorc.

Tank sorc , heal sorc , OP , of course.

red_emu · September 2017

Mag Wardens are good in PvP? Hah! Maybe as healers! Really loved this class at the start but it's just awful at this point

Yakidafi · September 2017

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sorcerer have everything. Just be a Sorc.

Apherius · September 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

All 5 classes should do somewhat similar Stam/Mag DPS as damage is the one thing that all classes must can do.

No. All class can heal/tank but not as good as a Templar/tank in Engame , currently all magicka can DPS but not as good as a NB/sorc .. and all stamina can dps but not as good as a DK/NB.

I understand that some people don't tank or heal with their dk/templar and just want to dps , but why some person should be able to just switch their gear/cp/skill and be able to tank or dps very well in engame while an other person have to make a reroll just because they choose a NB 3 years ago ... ?

Btw , what would be the point to create a " reroll " if you can do everything wth your main char as well as the other class ? Of course the game would be balanced i agree ... but i think they are clever and know that some class are the better choice for X or Y roles ... and it's why they increased the " alt limit " from 4 to 8 ( old old old patch ) then make able people to buy char slot in crown stores .

GreenhaloX · September 2017

Apherius wrote: »

WillhelmBlack wrote: »

Sorcerer have everything. Just be a Sorc.

Tank sorc , heal sorc , OP , of course.

A sorc can tank as well as a tank can dps..

Mettaricana · September 2017

Vanzen wrote: »

Well seeing how absolutely and insanely OP in pvp, mag wardens are, I cant imagine what it would be if they got DPS increase ...

Nice to se a buff from a perspective outsode pvp

tinythinker · September 2017

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

I've been on and off with a mag-warden that went 10-50 in Cyro and has seen little of PvE. Currently an Argonian with 5xNecropotence 5xAlteration Mastery and all jewelry with spell damage glyphs. Spell damage is 1692 unbuffed, 1549 mag recovery, and 41.3k mag on destro bar with pet. Is that enough to be OP/I need practice or do I need better gear?

Your stats should be higher... Something's not quite right there.

@Joy_Division that sums up all of my characters

Everything is currently purple. I have no Masters or vMA staff so I just have that slot as generic. No good monster piece. So it's 5xNecro 5xAlt 1xCrap. If the setup was good I night spend on making the weapon gold. All points are in magicka, max magicka glyphs on all armor (also purple), and 7 Light w Infused as the character hasn't leveled anything for Undaunted yet. Using Inner Light and Northern Storm on destro bar to get max magicka a little higher as well.

Was going to do some PvE but then the IC event popped up and wanted to take this character there a bit to get practice and achievements.

Seraphayel · September 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

All 5 classes should do somewhat similar Stam/Mag DPS as damage is the one thing that all classes must can do.

No. All class can heal/tank but not as good as a Templar/tank in Engame , currently all magicka can DPS but not as good as a NB/sorc .. and all stamina can dps but not as good as a DK/NB.

I understand that some people don't tank or heal with their dk/templar and just want to dps , but why some person should be able to just switch their gear/cp/skill and be able to tank or dps very well in engame while an other person have to make a reroll just because they choose a NB 3 years ago ... ?

Btw , what would be the point to create a " reroll " if you can do everything wth your main char as well as the other class ? Of course the game would be balanced i agree ... but i think they are clever and know that some class are the better choice for X or Y roles ... and it's why they increased the " alt limit " from 4 to 8 ( old old old patch ) then make able people to buy char slot in crown stores .

This should be true for specific roles like Tank and Healer, not for DPS. DPS is the "base" role in 99% of the MMORPGs and therefore every class should succeed at it with similar results.

SodanTok · September 2017

Finally a class where stamina single target ranged DPS is not 20-30% worse than magicka variant.

Sounds alright to me /s

For real tho, warden skills and passives needs to get better. Dive is bad spammable for both mag and stam. Passives do almost nothing for dmg (slightly more for mag than stam)

Chrlynsch · September 2017

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

Well seeing how absolutely and insanely OP in pvp, mag wardens are, I cant imagine what it would be if they got DPS increase ...

Good thing then that PvP and PvE rely on different types of damage.

Warden has high burst damage, which is useless in PvE. So just buff their DoTs, which are useless in PvP.

Or just make cliff racer dodgeable (that's the only thing that makes them "OP" in PvP).

Are you still going on about this? Get a clue. Cliff Racer is dodgeable, from several different sources. But since dodge roll isan't one of them, everyone still cries about it.

I never said magicka warden was OP in PvP (they suck there too, as you can see from PvP leader boards). I was just giving a suggestion to the whiners. If ZOS doesn't want to buff PvE DPS because kids will cry that they're OP, I'd rather they just make cliff racer dodgeable (but with a faster cast or something).

@MLGProPlayer

You obviously didn't read my comment about the specific part of your post, because Cliff Racer IS *** DODGEABLE.

Did they change it recently? I don't PvP.

If so, all the more reason to buff their DoT damage...

Evasion and Cloak work against it.

Hist Bark and Blessed Meridia Sets also work.

You ever try to fight someone wearing Blessed Meridia as a magwarden, you do literally 0 damage. It's a *** joke.

Doesn't that apply to everyone who fights this set?

KingJ · September 2017

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Maikon wrote: »

MLGProPlayer wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

Well seeing how absolutely and insanely OP in pvp, mag wardens are, I cant imagine what it would be if they got DPS increase ...

Good thing then that PvP and PvE rely on different types of damage.

Warden has high burst damage, which is useless in PvE. So just buff their DoTs, which are useless in PvP.

Or just make cliff racer dodgeable (that's the only thing that makes them "OP" in PvP).

Are you still going on about this? Get a clue. Cliff Racer is dodgeable, from several different sources. But since dodge roll isan't one of them, everyone still cries about it.

I never said magicka warden was OP in PvP (they suck there too, as you can see from PvP leader boards). I was just giving a suggestion to the whiners. If ZOS doesn't want to buff PvE DPS because kids will cry that they're OP, I'd rather they just make cliff racer dodgeable (but with a faster cast or something).

@MLGProPlayer

You obviously didn't read my comment about the specific part of your post, because Cliff Racer IS *** DODGEABLE.

Did they change it recently? I don't PvP.

If so, all the more reason to buff their DoT damage...

Evasion and Cloak work against it.

Hist Bark and Blessed Meridia Sets also work.

You ever try to fight someone wearing Blessed Meridia as a magwarden, you do literally 0 damage. It's a *** joke.

Evasion doesn't work against it same with histbark.Only Cloak and Bless works .

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Apherius wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

All 5 classes should do somewhat similar Stam/Mag DPS as damage is the one thing that all classes must can do.

No. All class can heal/tank but not as good as a Templar/tank in Engame , currently all magicka can DPS but not as good as a NB/sorc .. and all stamina can dps but not as good as a DK/NB.

I understand that some people don't tank or heal with their dk/templar and just want to dps , but why some person should be able to just switch their gear/cp/skill and be able to tank or dps very well in engame while an other person have to make a reroll just because they choose a NB 3 years ago ... ?

Btw , what would be the point to create a " reroll " if you can do everything wth your main char as well as the other class ? Of course the game would be balanced i agree ... but i think they are clever and know that some class are the better choice for X or Y roles ... and it's why they increased the " alt limit " from 4 to 8 ( old old old patch ) then make able people to buy char slot in crown stores .

But magicka templar and DK only parse about 1-2k behind sorc, which is fine. Warden is 7-8k behind a sorc.

Betsararie · September 2017

Wardens are borderline OP in PvP, that tree ultimate is just out of control. Completely out of control

If that ridiculous ulti could just have its cost increased, maybe then we could start discussing increasing their sustained DPS which would then inadvertently buff their burst damage, which would then create more problems. They really don't need any more burst damage

Vaoh · September 2017

Mag Warden is horribly outclassed *against a target dummy*.

In an actual trial, lag affects a Mag Warden unlike any other class - you will struggle to get off your light attacks due to longer animations on certain skills. Also the rotation feels much more clunky than any other class. In other words, DPS is much worse than what you'd think by only testing on target skeletons. Yes it's that bad. RIP

Seraphayel · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

Wardens are borderline OP in PvP, that tree ultimate is just out of control. Completely out of control

If that ridiculous ulti could just have its cost increased, maybe then we could start discussing increasing their sustained DPS which would then inadvertently buff their burst damage, which would then create more problems. They really don't need any more burst damage

Can MagWardens in PvP actually kill people? Pretty much doubt that when the opponent has self healing (which everyone in Cyrodiil has).

Betsararie · September 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Wardens are borderline OP in PvP, that tree ultimate is just out of control. Completely out of control

If that ridiculous ulti could just have its cost increased, maybe then we could start discussing increasing their sustained DPS which would then inadvertently buff their burst damage, which would then create more problems. They really don't need any more burst damage

Can MagWardens in PvP actually kill people? Pretty much doubt that when the opponent has self healing (which everyone in Cyrodiil has).

Yeah they kill a lot of people. Cliff racer alone is one of the best skills currently in PvP period. They also run necro which is still OP in PvP.

Stam wardens hit harder but mag wardens have a lot of tools at their disposal

Their survivability is also very good

Seraphayel · September 2017

Who can be killed with just Cliffracers? I mean come on. Besides that there is nothing going on. Survivability is only important when you a) play that build to tank / heal but don't kill anything or b) you're capable of killing but still want to have some surv. I really don't see Wardens as a threat in any way possible in PvP. They're (MagWar) annoying but nothing you must fear.

pod88kk · September 2017

Personally I think they were brought back just to keep the role players happy so that they can suck at both Stam & magicka damage at the same time but hey at least they "get to play the game the way they want to play". Dunno why they get so mad when people don't want them in their trials though

Integral1900 · September 2017

As a part time roleplayer they ain't even that good for us, the class has no focus, no theme, just a bunch of second rate skills that feel like they were slapped together out of the spare parts bin... also why the hell did we get stuck with that aweful shalk animation instead of that huge tunnelling beast they showed of at first?

Oh... now I remember... it was because some whining git in pvp reckoned they couldn't see it coming! How, IT WAS ENORMOUS!!

Betsararie · September 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

Who can be killed with just Cliffracers? I mean come on. Besides that there is nothing going on. Survivability is only important when you a) play that build to tank / heal but don't kill anything or b) you're capable of killing but still want to have some surv. I really don't see Wardens as a threat in any way possible in PvP. They're (MagWar) annoying but nothing you must fear.

That's because the vast majority of Wardens are literally god awful

You have to track down some good ones to see what the class is actually capable of and for a few select reasons, I do believe they're borderline OP.

The way cliff racer functions is waayy more advantageous than nearly any other skill. The netch is also literally OP

The burst of stam warden is among the highest I've seen from a class who is also tanky.

Nb has high burst damage (probably higher), but no survivability beyond cloak and vigor. If you can burst down the ganker before he can cloak, as a mag sorc it's game over. And as a mag sorc I'm largely gank proof anyway.

You do not approach fighting a stam warden the same way. I agree mag wardens are in some instances some of the easiest kills, but as I'd mentioned they have a lot of useful skills at their disposal.

Joy_Division · September 2017

tinythinker wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

I've been on and off with a mag-warden that went 10-50 in Cyro and has seen little of PvE. Currently an Argonian with 5xNecropotence 5xAlteration Mastery and all jewelry with spell damage glyphs. Spell damage is 1692 unbuffed, 1549 mag recovery, and 41.3k mag on destro bar with pet. Is that enough to be OP/I need practice or do I need better gear?

Your stats should be higher... Something's not quite right there.

@Joy_Division that sums up all of my characters

Everything is currently purple. I have no Masters or vMA staff so I just have that slot as generic. No good monster piece. So it's 5xNecro 5xAlt 1xCrap. If the setup was good I night spend on making the weapon gold. All points are in magicka, max magicka glyphs on all armor (also purple), and 7 Light w Infused as the character hasn't leveled anything for Undaunted yet. Using Inner Light and Northern Storm on destro bar to get max magicka a little higher as well.

Was going to do some PvE but then the IC event popped up and wanted to take this character there a bit to get practice and achievements.

Ahh, no undaunted and a purple weapon will do that. I'm always leary golding out anything before a patch, especially with this one which will let us re-trait stuff.

tinythinker · September 2017

Blanco wrote: »

That's because the vast majority of Wardens are literally god awful

Yes, we are.

pieratsos · September 2017

Seraphayel wrote: »

Blanco wrote: »

Wardens are borderline OP in PvP, that tree ultimate is just out of control. Completely out of control

If that ridiculous ulti could just have its cost increased, maybe then we could start discussing increasing their sustained DPS which would then inadvertently buff their burst damage, which would then create more problems. They really don't need any more burst damage

Can MagWardens in PvP actually kill people? Pretty much doubt that when the opponent has self healing (which everyone in Cyrodiil has).

Actually yeah they can. Their dmg is ridiculous. It just needs a high skill cap. Fighting potatoes and killing them doesnt make the class bad. And yes cliff racer is enough to kill people. In terms of pure dmg its one of the strongest spammables in the game if not the strongest and u cant dodge it, meaning you literally have to take that dmg.

MLGProPlayer · September 2017

Vaoh wrote: »

Mag Warden is horribly outclassed *against a target dummy*.

In an actual trial, lag affects a Mag Warden unlike any other class - you will struggle to get off your light attacks due to longer animations on certain skills. Also the rotation feels much more clunky than any other class. In other words, DPS is much worse than what you'd think by only testing on target skeletons. Yes it's that bad. RIP

The animations are definitely a problem too. They're a lot more "cinematic" than the other classes, but that makes it difficult to carry out smooth rotations.