Magicka DK Needs Buff in PvE

Banana · September 2017

Buff. Nerf Sorcerers

TooSaucy · September 2017

Magicka DK hits harder than a sorc. The only issue is that a Stam Build will out parse the magdk. The solution to this isn't buff the class its nerf the stam builds.

Ihatenightblades · September 2017

TooSaucy wrote: »

Magicka DK hits harder than a sorc. The only issue is that a Stam Build will out parse the magdk. The solution to this isn't buff the class its nerf the stam builds.

Huh?

Integral1900 · September 2017

Uuuuum, never had any trouble, only thing I'd change is the sound on that whip, that has to be the worst sound file in the game. Also don't trust single target skeletons for this, magic dk is for burning trash by the thousand not boshing one over stated bone pile!

WatchYourSixx · September 2017

Zedrian wrote: »

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Yes please buff mDK. Just getting 50k dps on boss fights is kinda boring when I should be hitting 60k just because I want to.

Not pulling even close to 50K DPS on boss fights, and by the look of this thread a lot of other players who use Magicka DKs aren't either, but thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Hello our trials guild did some testing when HotR was released.

Our guildmate mDK this patch is pulling between 3-5k more than other Magicka classes. 42k solo, 48-49k on the 26m without all the buffs and penetration caps, second best were sorcerers with 40-47k in group buffs, then Nightblade 40-45k. Our templar did 36k but admitted to have missed his parse and had to go. We didn't compare Stam classes in the mix. We spent about 3-4 hours on the 26 and 51 millions skeletons doing these tests with fully optimized characters.

We were stunned how high and how consistent the DPS of mDK was, and surely this is due to the free spammable whip that hits like a truck. The DK has pretty much all fire damages so can fully benefit from the Sun and BSW sets. The mDK is in a great spot right now, and I would say we should buff the other classes instead

As much as I love my Magicka DK, and have spent much of the last 2 years getting better at playing him... I call bull crap on your claim of 42k solo as a Magicka DK. Since homestead, I haven't seen a single Magicka DK single target parse on a skeleton solo greater than 37k.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but people claim all kinds of things. Show me a solo parse that high and I'll believe DK is better DPS than what this thread is making it out to be.

Zedrian · September 2017

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Yes please buff mDK. Just getting 50k dps on boss fights is kinda boring when I should be hitting 60k just because I want to.

Not pulling even close to 50K DPS on boss fights, and by the look of this thread a lot of other players who use Magicka DKs aren't either, but thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Hello our trials guild did some testing when HotR was released.

Our guildmate mDK this patch is pulling between 3-5k more than other Magicka classes. 42k solo, 48-49k on the 26m without all the buffs and penetration caps, second best were sorcerers with 40-47k in group buffs, then Nightblade 40-45k. Our templar did 36k but admitted to have missed his parse and had to go. We didn't compare Stam classes in the mix. We spent about 3-4 hours on the 26 and 51 millions skeletons doing these tests with fully optimized characters.

We were stunned how high and how consistent the DPS of mDK was, and surely this is due to the free spammable whip that hits like a truck. The DK has pretty much all fire damages so can fully benefit from the Sun and BSW sets. The mDK is in a great spot right now, and I would say we should buff the other classes instead

As much as I love my Magicka DK, and have spent much of the last 2 years getting better at playing him... I call bull crap on your claim of 42k solo as a Magicka DK. Since homestead, I haven't seen a single Magicka DK single target parse on a skeleton solo greater than 37k.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but people claim all kinds of things. Show me a solo parse that high and I'll believe DK is better DPS than what this thread is making it out to be.

Here is one video HotR on PS4 EU that does 39k with charged lightning staff and self elemental drain.

https://youtu.be/HFAeo2m6zdo

Our guildie did his 41 and 42k scores with a heal's charged lightning, too bad he doesn't make videos :-(. The whole class gains so much from the off balance

Also what matters is the dps with group buffs for us and not the solo scores. With the same group buffs the mDK (played by great players I might add) does really well and that's great!

Enjoy :-)

Yamenstein · September 2017

Zedrian wrote: »

WatchYourSixx wrote: »

Zedrian wrote: »

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

rustic_potato wrote: »

Yes please buff mDK. Just getting 50k dps on boss fights is kinda boring when I should be hitting 60k just because I want to.

Not pulling even close to 50K DPS on boss fights, and by the look of this thread a lot of other players who use Magicka DKs aren't either, but thanks for contributing absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Hello our trials guild did some testing when HotR was released.

Our guildmate mDK this patch is pulling between 3-5k more than other Magicka classes. 42k solo, 48-49k on the 26m without all the buffs and penetration caps, second best were sorcerers with 40-47k in group buffs, then Nightblade 40-45k. Our templar did 36k but admitted to have missed his parse and had to go. We didn't compare Stam classes in the mix. We spent about 3-4 hours on the 26 and 51 millions skeletons doing these tests with fully optimized characters.

We were stunned how high and how consistent the DPS of mDK was, and surely this is due to the free spammable whip that hits like a truck. The DK has pretty much all fire damages so can fully benefit from the Sun and BSW sets. The mDK is in a great spot right now, and I would say we should buff the other classes instead

As much as I love my Magicka DK, and have spent much of the last 2 years getting better at playing him... I call bull crap on your claim of 42k solo as a Magicka DK. Since homestead, I haven't seen a single Magicka DK single target parse on a skeleton solo greater than 37k.

I'd love to be proved wrong, but people claim all kinds of things. Show me a solo parse that high and I'll believe DK is better DPS than what this thread is making it out to be.

Here is one video HotR on PS4 EU that does 39k with charged lightning staff and self elemental drain. https://youtu.be/HFAeo2m6zdo

Our guildie did his 41 and 42k scores with a heal's charged lightning, too bad he doesn't make videos :-(. The whole class gains so much from the off balance

Also what matters is the dps with group buffs for us and not the solo scores. With the same group buffs the mDK (played by great players I might add) does really well and that's great!

Enjoy :-)

So it isn't 42k like how you said? Though I'm not in any way putting down a 39k DPS parse, it isn't the value that you spat out before. And unless you an prove it then it's pointless, and if you think you shouldn't haven't to then no point stating anything as fact unless you can back it up.

But good job either way to that guildie.

I don't think magicka dragonknights needs much of a change. It sucks that they are reliant on off balance when it can be consumed by heavy attacks. Which is the only thing I would change, that something else procs the power whip or whatever it is called.

You should have your guildie do another parse with a stam dps doing dps as well.

Grabmoore · September 2017

Olupajmibanan wrote: »

My magDK is pulling more single target dps than my stamsorc right now.

Trust or not, sustain is perfect with Flame Lash and Witchmothers Potent Brew. The Silks of the Sun set solves health drop caused by Withmothers, even better.

However, I agree that without Blockade of Storms present my sustain would be a lot worse.

Yeah the off balance is great, but outside of a dummy test you hardly have that, because 7 other players consume it with their heavy attacks.

Jade1986 · September 2017

derpmander wrote: »

Inarre wrote: »

I had a dark elf mag dk. Turned her into an imperial tank. Thats how *** the dps was lol.
The classes in general need tuning to make them equally viable for all roles.

Kilandros wrote: »

People have been asking for mDK buffs for two years. Though mDK has occasionally received small buffs, they also keep getting nerfed for some reason. I finally gave up after one of the Devs unceremoniously remarked during an ESO Live that "Not all classes have to be equal" and after Gina infamously posted that DK's are supposed to be tanks.

If dks are supposed to be tanks why do they keep *** ing nerfing templar heals. Were they supposed to be dps??!?

To be fair they also nerfed templar dps into nonexistance lol. I think ZOS had to make templars shittier so they could sell the Warden class. Otherwise no one would wanna give wardens a go. I mean nobody does still but yeah, that was the idea i believe. Wreck templar so wardens look juicier.

Hey now, I stopped playing the game for almost a year until warden was released because that is the kind of class I have always wanted to play. Now I have 3 wardens, 1 stamden scout class, 1 healing warden, and 1 tank warden. I am going to likely make other warden builds as well. I hated ALL of the initial classes.

That being said, if magdk is anything like i remember a year ago, I feel for the OP, because I gave up pretty quick once i realized how bad their damage was. I honestly never understood the premise of magicka dk, they are a melee class, but if they use heavy armor and sword n shield as intended their damage, regen, stat pool, EVERYTHING is gimped, but if they dont use it, they will be squished super quick

ecru · September 2017

Magicka in general is doing pretty terrible compared to stam. I understand the ranged vs melee issue when it comes to magsorc vs stam builds, but melee magicka should obviously be competitive with stam.

That said, ranged shouldn't be 20% or more behind melee like they currently are.

laksikus · September 2017

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Bout time they made some buffs in the game to all classes without considering PVP. The amount of crap they change because of pvp is insane.

The amount of things they changed for pve is bigger than those nerfs for pvp ^^
Permablock, templar shards, cp, sustain changes those last few patches.

Even proc crit sets were partially made for pve, if you dont believe it look at the specific nerf to the deadroth Set last patch, nobody used that in pvp.

Grabmoore · September 2017

laksikus wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Bout time they made some buffs in the game to all classes without considering PVP. The amount of crap they change because of pvp is insane.

The amount of things they changed for pve is bigger than those nerfs for pvp ^^
Permablock, templar shards, cp, sustain changes those last few patches.

Even proc crit sets were partially made for pve, if you dont believe it look at the specific nerf to the deadroth Set last patch, nobody used that in pvp.

Where is the lol button?

I give you the sustain changes, which were an overall decision. Besides that my experience regarding those changes are the complete opposite to yours! Block? See blazeplars and dks. Templar shards? Pure PvP and preparation for upcoming warden. CP? Partially sustain related for all and the rest pure PvP (see absorber). Proc changes? 99% PvP related, 1% f*** you PvE community aka working as intended. The daedroth set? You mean maw of the infernal? Noone ever used it until current patch. Totally unrelated, you could call this overall balance attempt.

Next you will blame streak, shield stack and jesus beam nerf on PvE or the removal of major mending for most classes?

Trashkan · September 2017

Ya I was fed up with the lack of sustain on any build that hits good with my mdk. So I made a Khajiit so I could show that dummy who is boss lol.

IcyDeadPeople · September 2017

nalimoleb14_ESO wrote: »

DKs have no burst damage, the buff to burning in the most recent patch adds a pitiable 1K DPS at most, and it's getting to a point where I'm constantly asked if I have a Sorc alt to bring to trials and dungeons when I join groups.

Do you need burst damage in PVE? Don't have much experience in PVE, but always thought it was more about sustained dps, while burst seems more useful in PVP.

nalimoleb14_ESO · September 2017

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Do you need burst damage in PVE? Don't have much experience in PVE, but always thought it was more about sustained dps, while burst seems more useful in PVP.

Good question, burst damage definitely gives a noticeable advantage in PvE, especially when comparing other magicka classes like sorcs vs. magicka dk. If sustaining dps was better for magicka dks, where the majority of your damage is coming from dots, then perhaps the state of magicka dk wouldn't be so bad. But with bad sustain, costly skills, gimped damage, nerfs, no burst damage, or discernible usefulness of magicka dks in groups, it's a bit frustrating.

Banana · September 2017

Revert standard

Qbiken · September 2017

- Change the Burning Embers heal into a HoT. It can heal for exactly the same amount overall just make it tick every 2 seconds instead of being a burst at the end. (This will help a lot for Solo content like VMA IMO.) If it is not too much can you also make it 7 meters instead of 5?

Healing as a magDK in vMA is very easy if you run an "Off-balance" build to proc Power lash. Surviveability as a magDK isn´t an issue, sustain is. Magicka DK´s would be able to dish out some really nice damage if it weren´t for the bad sustain-issues the class have.

* If you don´t want to run a heavy attack build you need people to run shockwall to proc the off-balance effect. This is in order to sustain (to proc Powerlash which is "free" of cost). And the flame-lash proc is sometimes so un-reliable it´s not even worth running. Also note that some bosses can´t be set off-balance (Which makes magDK useless in trials like vAA where only Valariel and the Mage can be set off-balance)

* Before Morrowind Battle roar was the main source of sustain for a magDK. ZOS killed it. Revert Battle roar to "pre-Morrowind", and do the same thing for Helping hands. Now people may think this can be an issue in PvP, but at the moment certain sets are the reason DK´s can be tanky, dish out damage and maintain their resources (Add shieldwall to that as well), not battle roar.

* Reduce the cost of magicka DK´s skills greatly. One rotation costs like 5th of your resourcepool (maybe not that much but you get my point).

Brrrofski · September 2017

Grabmoore wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

O_LYKOS wrote: »

Bout time they made some buffs in the game to all classes without considering PVP. The amount of crap they change because of pvp is insane.

The amount of things they changed for pve is bigger than those nerfs for pvp ^^
Permablock, templar shards, cp, sustain changes those last few patches.

Even proc crit sets were partially made for pve, if you dont believe it look at the specific nerf to the deadroth Set last patch, nobody used that in pvp.

Where is the lol button?

I give you the sustain changes, which were an overall decision. Besides that my experience regarding those changes are the complete opposite to yours! Block? See blazeplars and dks. Templar shards? Pure PvP and preparation for upcoming warden. CP? Partially sustain related for all and the rest pure PvP (see absorber). Proc changes? 99% PvP related, 1% f*** you PvE community aka working as intended. The daedroth set? You mean maw of the infernal? Noone ever used it until current patch. Totally unrelated, you could call this overall balance attempt.

Next you will blame streak, shield stack and jesus beam nerf on PvE or the removal of major mending for most classes?

He's right though. Pve get's nerfed when it's too easy and people think it's because of pvp.

The permablock and sustain was as much Pve as PvP. I could solo Valkyn skoria on a saptank before Morrowind. How is that not broken? No way should I be able to do that.

Shards was a Pve nerf. About 4 people used them in PvP since stun was gone.

Proc sets was a PvP thing. But they were overperforming in Pve as well. They were really sting there.

irstarkey57 · January 2018

@ZOS_GinaBruno I agree that changes are much needed to magicka DK. I have maines this toon for two years now only to see indirect nerfs happen over and over because of game mechanics other classes can take advantage of, or because of PvP. Now I am always asked if I have a stam dk melee to bring into trials instead. I could even screenshot discord messages telling me countless times, sorry we don't need/use magicka DK's because they aren't meta right now. Mind you this message will follow a 40k dps parse self buffed self drained 6m target skeleton. So, what NEEDS to be done?
Obviously their damage needs buffed. It needs done in a way that doesn't affect stamina. Stamina DK's don't need any help in pve dps. Also keep in mind Magdks also need a buff in pvp. Ways to do this? Buff whip. Give it an execute damage ability. Let it do more damage when below 25 percent. Considering sorcs have 2 executes, one being EXTREMELY BROKEN ( ranged, and lingering execute that instantly explodes you in group play), it would only be fair for magdks to finally get a freaking execute. Eruption could also be buffed. Changing them to longer durations won't help because it will just clunk up rotation. Other possible things would be to change magdk a passive skills around to do more damage. Again, look at sorcs first skill tree line. It's all damage. Maybe an implosion like passive? Anyway, there are bunch of things that could easily be done. And revert the battle roar changes, especially if you guys intend to screw over off balance for us. I'm very worried about my favorite class. Many are. Please don't further ruin it. Thanks.

Jade1986 · January 2018

Dots need to be stronger, no doubt about that. That and the whipe needs to be reworked to proc every other hit instead of this silly off balance nonsense.

DUTCH_REAPER · January 2018

Yes ZOS fix it!

SASQUATCH0 · January 2018

While I agree with this thread, my main also bring a magdk, I can say that they are still op in pvp.

ak_pvp · January 2018

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dots need to be stronger, no doubt about that. That and the whipe needs to be reworked to proc every other hit instead of this silly off balance nonsense.

Every other hit would (depending on the group) be a nerf, and things like interrupting proc it for PvP so would hurt their. Though they are planning to add offbalance cooldown, effectively pissing on the corpse.

Aisle9 · January 2018

I agree

Nelson_Rebel · January 2018

The only reason Mag dk’s have a ok’ish parse on SINGLE TARGET SKELETON’s is because we are allowed off balance for power lash to struggle sustain with power lash being ALLOWED.

In a trial setting you will NEVER get that kind of uptime in a PvE trial because heavy attacks from everyone else will consume it far faster and your power lash will proc MAYBE once or twice in an actual fight.

We have these people here saying “looks here at this standing still not moving target dummy we have with a very situational proc dependent power lash we depend on for sustainability that in any scenario for a trial will never happen like this, but we can still hit sub par dps”.... Like wtf you smoking.

Mag Dk’s need major changes. Because as of right now, there is absolutely zero reason to use one. You will do 5x better for sustainability, damage, and survivability on a mag sorc or stam build in every single real trial scenario.

jnelson1182 · January 2018

granted I'm brand new to game but so far I enjoy playing my DK over anything else but since I'm panning on more ranged dips I'm thinking about switching over to level my sorcerer.Two things I think would make the game better would be adding more ranged attacks to the DK ,especially the flame skill tree and the second thing would be adding a fire skill tree of some kind to the sorcerer.

Carbonised · January 2018

Well I did wonder why I never saw any magDKs in neither PUG dungeon groups, overland zones or anywhere else, other than myself.

And here I am, in all legendary gear and a pretty great set combo, knowing my rotation very well having played this same character for years, and doing somewhat mediocre damage with terrible sustain, and in melee range to boot. With plenty of my damage being ground based AOE dots like Wall, Eruption and Banner, that bosses often seem to move out of so they need to be recast, for even worse sustain.

It's a pity ZOS keeps shoehorning the DK into the tank role, especially when they also keep nerfing block and heavy armor, then removed the option to use evasion and destroyed the ultigen DK Tava tanks, and now in next patch are going to nerf the block cost rduction even further. Alright, so you want to force the DK to become a tank, and then nerf everything tank related, which also hurts the usual DK setup in pvp, where going tank or at least some combo of heavy armor and shield and relying on block is pretty much the only defense the slow and immobile DK has.

So what the heck are we supposed to do with this class again?

I want:
- Better sustain, especially a better battle roar. It's our only form for sustain, and we as the only class has to hold back our ults sometimes to time it for sustain, not only damage. All other classes can fire their ults immediately. It's not nearly as effective as it should be for the drawbacks it comes with.

- Better burst. Dot dot dot dot isn't gonna cut it for a magdk. Many bosses need high DPS in bursts between invulnerable phases and other circus mechanics. Other classes can do that, and even execute. MagDK can't do either of those, and we're hurt by all those mechanics that favour burst dpsing. And the issue is even worse in PvP, where burst is even more important.

- Player based flame AOE. Get rid of that stupid cauterize/Flames of oblivion finally, and give us back the old inferno with an AOE dot.

beetleklee · January 2018

Pretty much switched to StamDK. Better sustain and more damage.

Tipsy · August 2019

casparian wrote: »

There are three issues here, as I see it:

1. MagDK specifically has trouble pulling DPS comparable to other classes without running into ineliminable sustain problems. ZOS has repeatedly shown that they acknowledge this issue exists, having put DK through multiple rounds of cost reductions in U15. But the issue remains, and is exacerbated by the fact that stamina builds are now so desirable in trials. The presence of so many stamina builds means more frequent heavy attacks, and more frequent heavy attacks means increased consumption of Off-Balance, and increased consumption of Off-Balance means it's a group DPS loss to use Power Lash. Not using Power Lash is a major hit to magDK sustain.

2. Melee magicka builds in general don't do comparable DPS to melee stamina builds. Given the limited number of melee spots available in most trials, there is in general no reason to fill a valuable melee spot with a magicka build. (Important caveat: stamina DPS is in a very good place now, and should not be nerfed. Magicka DPS needs some attention, especially melee magicka DPS. Melee magicka skills shouldn't just be for PVP and unoptimized groups.)

3. MagDK's main group utility skill, Engulfing Flames, can simply be run by a tank.

To this day I tink magDK is the worst when it comes to sustain
They have very expensive magicka skills,where you have to be carefull not to accidentally push a skill like inhale twice
or half of you magicka is burned before you have done anything.Especially Magdks have no usefull class passives to help sustain
Combustion is very situational and specific,only restoring 500 magicka when applying burning or 500 stam when applying poison
World of Ruin only decreases stamina cost of poison abilities by 12 procent ,not helping magdks either
Battle roar helps a little "When you cast an Ultimate ability, you restore 46 Health, 46 Magicka, and 46 Stamina for each point of the Ultimate's cost" but not enough for sustain in long fights
Skil Draw essence costs 4051 magicka,restores only 10 procent of the ability cost for each enemy hit (still costs way more than the magicka it returns in most cases)
Neither morphs of dragon blood help Magdks
None of the close range weapons help Magdks with mag recovery either.And lets face it,using staves is just weird if you want a knight type of character.
All this together sees to it that magdks have the worst sustain out of any class

Maybe molten weapon could gain a mag recovery morph