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Healer weapon Trait: Power vs Precise

  • Tasear
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    DenniMyuu wrote: »
    None of those options. I haven't used Precise or Powered for ages. Infused on Master Resto and Infused on random staff with Crusher or Weakening enchant for PVE if you want to support your group nicely. There's so much overheal anyway and a oneshot is a oneshot (as in no shield or blocking or whatever mitigation) even with 8k Healing Springs.

    As for PVP... I would agree with a powered trait if you're really just gonna heal your raid/group. If it's just your defensive offbar - defending.

    That's question deserves another thread >:) ... but for another time; "What's the most supportive enchantment" or What's the most supportive trait" . Though this thread was meant to answer which provided more raw healing.

  • VampiricByNature
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    I say both.

    I use powered or infused for my healing needs in trials. Usually infused but.. powered is technically the most OP heals.

    In vdsa or dungeons I do dps, so I use precise. Boosts heals and dps.
  • Jamascus
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    Powered. Having stronger base heals all the time = more healing done consistently.
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    Either I'm doing the math wrong, or this is being made harder than it needs to be.

    All other things being equal only the difference between the two traits matter, not the baseline, not the CP's. This is because we assume those things are the same regardless and the only potential change is the weapon.

    Take 3 impossible / extreme scenarios and it becomes more clear:
    1. Zero % Crit chance
      • Base damage is 1.0, crit damage increase is 50%, w/ max cp's 75%
      • You have absolutely no chance of increasing your base value by 50% / 75%
      • This gives you an effective damage of 1.0 in either case
      • Add Powered to this and you get effective healing of 1.07 ~ a 7% difference.
        or
      • Add Precise, you now have a 7% chance at increase to give effective 1.035 / 1.0525 (5.25% difference, best case)
    2. 50% Crit chance (this one's possible, but is here to show the median value)
      • Base damage is 1.0, crit damage increase is 50%, w/ max cp's 75%
      • You have 50% percent chance of increasing your base value by 50% / 75%
      • This gives you an effective damage of 1.25 / 1.375, respectively
      • Add Powered to this and you get effective healing of 1.3375 / 1.47125 ~ an 8.7% to 9.6% difference.
        or
      • Add Precise, you now have a 57% chance at increase to give effective 1.285 / 1.4275 (5.25% difference, best case)
    3. 93% Crit chance
      • Base damage is 1.0, crit damage increase is 50%, w/ max cp's 75%
      • You have 93% percent chance of increasing your base value by 50% / 75%
      • This gives you an effective damage of 1.465 / 1.6975, respectively
      • Add Powered to this and you get effective healing of 1.5676 / 1.8163 ~ an 10.3% to 11.9% difference.
        or
      • Add Precise, you now have a 100% chance ~ everything will crit to give effective 1.5 / 1.75 (still 5.25% difference, best case)

    @Jeremy , your numbers had to be due to extremely fortunate crit RNG, yielding higher than average increases.

    With precise and base crit damage, you're going to +7% chance at +50% effective damage or 3.5% average increase.
    Crank that to +75% crit damage and it's still only ever going to be 5.25% stronger on average, vs the absolute minimum 7% that powered will give you, no RNG required.

    All other things being equal, powered will outperform in terms of heals. The only place precise will start to benefit is it will also affect non-healing skills on your healing bar. If you're running more non-healing skills on your healing bar, that's a topic for another thread.


    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on August 3, 2017 8:15PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Sanctum74
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    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.
  • paulsimonps
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.
  • Sanctum74
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD
  • Brutusmax1mus
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    Being that no one should be only healing, precise does more for the total build.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD


    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.
    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 3, 2017 12:47AM
  • Tasear
    Tasear
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD


    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.

    Not that it likely makes a different, but you forgot minor mending as a possibility.
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD


    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.

    Not that it likely makes a different, but you forgot minor mending as a possibility.

    what?
    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.

    Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on August 3, 2017 1:32AM
  • Tasear
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    Tasear wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD


    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.

    Not that it likely makes a different, but you forgot minor mending as a possibility.

    what?
    what is your max magic and spell damage at? the only i can make sense of this is that you have so many percent amps already ( IE 25% from major mending, 8% from minor, 5% from argonian, 15% from cp, gets you to 53, then and powered gives you 7% and that takes you to 60% and 160/153= 1.05, and so on) and your spell damage and max magic magic are so low that the extra raw stats from nirn gives you the boost you need to beat the "7%" from powered.

    puts on glasses... I see..I see. :cold_sweat:
  • paulsimonps
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    I'd hardly call kags/trans a weird set up, it's pretty common. As far as my testing methods its pretty simple to swap out staffs using the same armor sets and then compare tooltips and actual heals. In real life testing scenarios the nirnhoned came out on top for heals every time whether it was bol or resto heals.

    If you are able to get better heals with powered then by all means use it, but if your testing method is based on paper and thinking eso uses true math then I guess I am questioning your testing methods xD

    EVERYTHING in ESO can be explained mathematically. You know how I know? Cause that is how you program games. And any and all testing I do is done in game as well as theoretical, I try my best to reverse engineer as much as I can, to figure out how things work. I don't always have to do that on my own cause Asayre is a badass, but an example is all my damage mitigation testing. And so, unless you go to the basics of how things work and know WHY something is how it is I don't think you have properly tested it. Now I have not done in depth testing on this exact scenario, but that is cause I don't need to, the theory is there. You need to get to a scenario where the small increase of spell damage gives more than a 7% increase in healing done, and the more spell damage and magicka you have the more those 7% are worth, so not sure with which numbers you got to a point where Nirn was better than powered.
  • Toast_STS
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    Do shadow and passives that say increases critical hit damage also boost heals?
    VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps
  • Lightspeedflashb14_ESO
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    Toast_STS wrote: »
    Do shadow and passives that say increases critical hit damage also boost heals?

    yes. though only templars and night blades have a passive that increases the CHD of heals, those passives being Piercing Spear and Hemorrhage respectively.

    the nodes in the champion system, Elfborn and Precise Strikes only increase the magic or stam based heals CHD respectively.
  • Joy_Division
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    Whichever you get the RNG drop for the staff you are looking for.

    Before u15, I actually liked Defending.
  • Tasear
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    thought I would mention if anyone references this in future precise isn't 9% like we thought it would be so powered provides more raw healing even more certain now. Mind you there's plenty of good options for healers
  • Septimus_Magna
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    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Honghua wrote: »
    Sanctum74 wrote: »
    Heals scale off of spell damage and max magic so increasing your spell damage also increases your heals. There is probably some threshold that if your spell damage is really low then powered might be better, but when I tested it I had 2600 spell power and I was getting much bigger heals with nirnhoned then powered.

    Wearing sets that increase healing might put powered on top, not sure how that passive would scale with nirn vs powered since eso can sometimes use some real fuzzy math xD

    You are wrong here by a huge margin.
    Nirnohed on weapon increases just a current weapon scaling by 11% not overall weapon/spell damage. That makes it way worse than powered, since resto gold staff with 1335 dmg, it will give only about 146 spell damage thats almost nothing for the overall healing spell about 320 points no matter the about of spelldamage or magicka you have since spell damage scales linear with abilities, while powered 7% gives about 3 times bigger benefits than this since it is scaling out of a total amount of heal, not the 1 factor of the ability scaling and not only that but it also scales with the other healing bonuses scaling.
    Comparing 2 staffs on same CP and color, 6% healing bonus gives me 700 healing on a 8k healing ability.




    No I'm not wrong by a huge margin lol. Nirnhoned does increase your spell and weapon damage which increases your heals as well, fact. Check your character stat page.

    Like i said, i tested prior to morrowind, maybe there has been changes, but regardless my bol was healing for an extra 900 health using nirnhoned vs powered, fact.

    Different armour bonuses and cp allocation may change that, but on my characters set up nirnhoned gave much better heals, again fact based on actual testing.

    You must have had one weird looking set up to get the result that nirnhoned gave more than powered....... 7% healing Done > 146 spell damage, even in situations where you get other buffs to spell damage it will usually be powered that gets the win. In a large amounts of scenarios powered will get more than powered by large margins just like he said. Now I'm not saying you are lying but I am questioning your testing methods.

    Isnt the 146 spell dmg from Nirnhoned increased by minor/major sorcery buffs?

    So 146 SD unbuffed gives 175 SD buffed with major sorcery.
    (And 182 SD buffed with minor+major sorcery.)

    That could explain why Nirnhoned is outperforming Powered when it comes to healing.
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  • DeHei
    DeHei
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    PvE i prefer Precise and in PvP nirnhoned.
    You can use the nirnhoned trait in PvE too! It increase damage and healing. The healing effects normally are all very strong, but for example full healer just have less spelldamage for magickareg and max magicka. So this nirnhoned effect maybe bring same like 8% more healing, because other % healings will be grow up too.
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  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Nirnhoned cannot outperform powered in any situation. It never did before HotR, it doesn't now.

    Let's say the healer has 42K magicka and about 2.6K spell damage fully buffed which would be typical for a trial healer. That would translate to 42K/10.5 + 2.6K = 6.6K effective spell damage. Let's say nirnhoned adds about 250 to that (1335*15% = 200 base spell damage, buffed by minor + major sorcery) It would mean an increase of ~3.8%. So your spells, including healing spells will only gain 3.8% power from nirnhoned. Powered would amplify your healing by a flat 9%, almost 2.5 times stronger. In order for nirnhoned to outperform powered, you would need to have an effective spell damage of under 250*100/9 = 2780. That means about 10K magicka and 1.8K spell damage which you would have as ... stamina DD maybe :D
    Edited by Asardes on August 18, 2017 8:23AM
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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  • DeHei
    DeHei
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    Asardes wrote: »
    Nirnhoned cannot outperform powered in any situation. It never did before HotR, it doesn't now.

    Let's say the healer has 42K magicka and about 2.6K spell damage fully buffed which would be typical for a trial healer. That would translate to 42K/10.5 + 2.6K = 6.6K effective spell damage. Let's say nirnhoned adds about 250 to that (1335*15% = 200 base spell damage, buffed by minor + major sorcery) It would mean an increase of ~3.8%. So your spells, including healing spells will only gain 3.8% power from nirnhoned. Powered would amplify your healing by a flat 9%, almost 2.5 times stronger. In order for nirnhoned to outperform powered, you would need to have an effective spell damage of under 250*100/9 = 2780. That means about 10K magicka and 1.8K spell damage which you would have as ... stamina DD maybe :D

    For pure healing you are right, but a healer with 42k magicka and 2,6k spelldamage will allready have very big heals. So it will be maybe more support with doing more damage. In that situation nirnhoned will again the better choose.
    Only for healing you are right for sure. Healer need to do more then just healing, because just healing is very easy.
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  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    DeHei wrote: »
    Asardes wrote: »
    Nirnhoned cannot outperform powered in any situation. It never did before HotR, it doesn't now.

    Let's say the healer has 42K magicka and about 2.6K spell damage fully buffed which would be typical for a trial healer. That would translate to 42K/10.5 + 2.6K = 6.6K effective spell damage. Let's say nirnhoned adds about 250 to that (1335*15% = 200 base spell damage, buffed by minor + major sorcery) It would mean an increase of ~3.8%. So your spells, including healing spells will only gain 3.8% power from nirnhoned. Powered would amplify your healing by a flat 9%, almost 2.5 times stronger. In order for nirnhoned to outperform powered, you would need to have an effective spell damage of under 250*100/9 = 2780. That means about 10K magicka and 1.8K spell damage which you would have as ... stamina DD maybe :D

    For pure healing you are right, but a healer with 42k magicka and 2,6k spelldamage will allready have very big heals. So it will be maybe more support with doing more damage. In that situation nirnhoned will again the better choose.
    Only for healing you are right for sure. Healer need to do more then just healing, because just healing is very easy.

    Support skills don't scale with magicka, but having more magicka allows you to cast them more often: magicka steal is 300 magicka per second, and the amount returned by shards and orbs depends on your level, not even your stats. So Nirnhoned will do nothing to improve those. For a mixed healer/DD setup the best trait will be precise, since it boosts both your healing and your damage done much more than nirnhoned. For example assuming Templar - 10% bonus to critical damage done from Piercing spear passive - and 56 CP in Elfborn for another 20%, your critical hits will do 65% extra damage compared to non-critical ones. Precise adds 7% critical chance, so you will have 7% chance to cause 65% more damage, or, in a longer fight the bonus damage from precise will be around 4.5% without additional multipliers. As I said above nirnhoned adds around 3.8% to your effective spell power, to which all your healing and DD skills scale, which is less than the 4.5% bonus damage from precise. In practice they will be pretty close so if you have a nirnhoned dropped staff you use for both healing and DD there's no reason to keep farming precise on that staff.
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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  • FrancisCrawford
    FrancisCrawford
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    Is Powered multiplicative with everything? Or is it additive to, for example, crit bonus?

  • Asardes
    Asardes
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    Is Powered multiplicative with everything? Or is it additive to, for example, crit bonus?

    It's additive with minor and major mending buffs as well as CPs in Blessed. Those are taken into consideration before critical is calculated.
    Edited by Asardes on August 18, 2017 11:42AM
    Beta tester since February 2014, played ESO-TU October 2015 - August 2022, currently on an extended break
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    Draynor Telvanni | 50 Dark Elf Warden | EP AR 20 |
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  • DeHei
    DeHei
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    Asardes wrote: »
    DeHei wrote: »
    Asardes wrote: »
    Nirnhoned cannot outperform powered in any situation. It never did before HotR, it doesn't now.

    Let's say the healer has 42K magicka and about 2.6K spell damage fully buffed which would be typical for a trial healer. That would translate to 42K/10.5 + 2.6K = 6.6K effective spell damage. Let's say nirnhoned adds about 250 to that (1335*15% = 200 base spell damage, buffed by minor + major sorcery) It would mean an increase of ~3.8%. So your spells, including healing spells will only gain 3.8% power from nirnhoned. Powered would amplify your healing by a flat 9%, almost 2.5 times stronger. In order for nirnhoned to outperform powered, you would need to have an effective spell damage of under 250*100/9 = 2780. That means about 10K magicka and 1.8K spell damage which you would have as ... stamina DD maybe :D

    For pure healing you are right, but a healer with 42k magicka and 2,6k spelldamage will allready have very big heals. So it will be maybe more support with doing more damage. In that situation nirnhoned will again the better choose.
    Only for healing you are right for sure. Healer need to do more then just healing, because just healing is very easy.

    Support skills don't scale with magicka, but having more magicka allows you to cast them more often: magicka steal is 300 magicka per second, and the amount returned by shards and orbs depends on your level, not even your stats. So Nirnhoned will do nothing to improve those. For a mixed healer/DD setup the best trait will be precise, since it boosts both your healing and your damage done much more than nirnhoned. For example assuming Templar - 10% bonus to critical damage done from Piercing spear passive - and 56 CP in Elfborn for another 20%, your critical hits will do 65% extra damage compared to non-critical ones. Precise adds 7% critical chance, so you will have 7% chance to cause 65% more damage, or, in a longer fight the bonus damage from precise will be around 4.5% without additional multipliers. As I said above nirnhoned adds around 3.8% to your effective spell power, to which all your healing and DD skills scale, which is less than the 4.5% bonus damage from precise. In practice they will be pretty close so if you have a nirnhoned dropped staff you use for both healing and DD there's no reason to keep farming precise on that staff.

    What are supportskills for you?
    All heal, synnergy like blazing spear and orb and damageskills can used for support. I think this all are based from max magicka and spelldamage. Elemental drain for example gives allways same amlunt of magicka back and doesnt matter what you wear. True.
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